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Uncle Wemus posted:Didn't Randi Harper do some poo poo, and didn't people call for the Doom 4 guy to be fired for laughing at Jon and Anita's criticism of Doom 4? Randi Harper came up with the Good Game Auto Blocker, which saw a lot of use at this year's Game Developer's Conference. Fluo posted:Seriously though you're ignoring a large percentage of this. It boils down to Left Libertarian vs Left Authoritarian. With a little sprinkling of loud /pol/ vs loud WASP trust fund Conservatives. I'm not ignoring poo poo. GamerGate has, to paraphrase Achewood, failed with a focus and intensity that is normally found only in success. They're arguing that the right to not be criticized is a First Amendment issue, their list of prominent allies and supporters looks like an rear end in a top hat of the Day desk calendar, and their most noteworthy achievements involve bullying women. The one time they thought they'd managed to get somebody's advertising pulled, Intel turned around and pledged to spend $300 million hiring more non-white, non-male engineers. The games that have come out so far this year have all represented a slight but distinct slide away from the GamerGate position while somehow not ending the universe or criminalizing sex; half the mainstream games have a create-a-character mode, all the women in Mortal Kombat X are wearing pants, and they actively desexualized Lara loving Croft. There is no merit to the GamerGate position as indicated by the movement's actual actions. You can say whatever you like about what it actually means; you can say it's a volleyball team. As it stands, it would qualify as a hate movement if not for its stunning incompetence, and trying to dig value out of its positions is panning for silver ore in a septic tank; you should have known there was nothing there before you started. Fluo posted:So you have two sides who support the same thing as it's not exclusive to have both "ethnics in journalism" and "more diversity in the gaming industry". But to the left and right of the people saying these things get brought tagged to the fringes. So everyone Anti GG thinks racial segregation is good and all forms of violence no matter if its fiction is bad. Where as everyone on GG takes the redpill and are misogynist /pol/ posters. It's a simple easy narrative but sadly, like in the real world outside the internet hiveminds it's not just so. Don't be a tool. This isn't a question of judging GamerGate by its most extreme supporters; it's judging GamerGate by the only things it ever does. Wanderer fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Wanderer posted:Randi Harper came up with the Good Game Auto Blocker, which saw a lot of use at this year's Game Developer's Conference. Im aware of that, people seem to have an axe to grind with her http://s2b20blog.mukyou.com/hidden-face-hypocrisy-randi-harper/ Wanderer posted:As it stands, it would qualify as a hate movement if not for its stunning incompetence, and trying to dig value out of its positions is panning for silver ore in a septic tank; you should have known there was nothing there before you started. you dont pan for silver in a septic tank, you pan for GOLD http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7535229.stm Uncle Wemus fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 08:36
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Fluo posted:It doesn't help when either side defends awful people just because "they're on our side" either. Like serial con artist Peter Coffin who if he wasn't in this shitstorm [he's made quite a profit] he'd be seen as the major misogynist that he is. Who on more than one occasion has pretended to have a girlfriend / wife who happens to need surgery and asked for donations. I can think of a few terrible people on both sides to be honest. No one gives a poo poo about Coffin, it's his treatment by GG which is the issue. Just like wu, Quinn, Anita, GG creepily goes over every inch of a persons history, imagined or real. It's another example of the unethical behaviour and harassment by a group that is supposed to be all about ethics? And the fact that they get fixated on these people who have nothing to do with journalism in the first place. They can't help but continue smearing these people long past any relevance they might have had, and that's what people see, and that's why journalists write negative stories about it. Goffer fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 08:45
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Wanderer posted:Randi Harper came up with the Good Game Auto Blocker, which saw a lot of use at this year's Game Developer's Conference. The irony of mccarthyism blacklists. Lucky she isn't in Europe like the Athest+ blockbot was which was forced down by anti blacklist laws. As a leftist like me, I'm surprised when people on the left forget the construction blacklists against trade unionisrs in the 80s and 90s. Or seem to think its good when we do it. This is another point I'd like to make. Randi Harper is someone you don't want to be anywhere near. Ex meth head, pathological liar, $40k owed to irs, runs a paedophile message board and openly admitted to it. Before you say, this has all been known before this little shitfest. It's funny how the infamous 15mins of internet fame all came out the woodwork for this. quote:I'm not ignoring poo poo. GamerGate has, to paraphrase Achewood, failed with a focus and intensity that is normally found only in success. They're arguing that the right to not be criticized is a First Amendment issue, their list of prominent allies and supporters looks like an rear end in a top hat of the Day desk calendar, and their most noteworthy achievements involve bullying women. The one time they thought they'd managed to get somebody's advertising pulled, Intel turned around and pledged to spend $300 million hiring more non-white, non-male engineers. The games that have come out so far this year have all represented a slight but distinct slide away from the GamerGate position while somehow not ending the universe or criminalizing sex; half the mainstream games have a create-a-character mode, all the women in Mortal Kombat X are wearing pants, and they actively desexualized Lara loving Croft. quote:There is no merit to the GamerGate position as indicated by the movement's actual actions. You can say whatever you like about what it actually means; you can say it's a volleyball team. As it stands, it would qualify as a hate movement if not for its stunning incompetence, and trying to dig value out of its positions is panning for silver ore in a septic tank; you should have known there was nothing there before you started. I think we should go back 40 pages about how everyone here has a different definition and just shout over each other. quote:Don't be a tool. This isn't a question of judging GamerGate by its most extreme supporters; it's judging GamerGate by the only things it ever does. Workers of the world unite no dont go volunteer at a soup kitchen or support your local trade unions, fund my unrealist San Francisco lifestyle Fluo fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 08:55
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But who doesn't love that sort of celebrity tabloid poo poo? Even goons love to follow Doobie, Ulilillia and Chris-Chan.
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Jul 9, 2015 08:56
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Uncle Wemus posted:But who doesn't love that sort of celebrity tabloid poo poo? Even goons love to follow Doobie, Ulilillia and Chris-Chan. Indeed, ironically helldumpers getting mad about the same poo poo they did 8 years ago.
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Jul 9, 2015 08:59
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And thank god the women in Mortal Kombat X are more realistically proportioned so you can buzzsaw their heads in half with your hat without feeling like a chauvinist
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Jul 9, 2015 09:05
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Wanderer posted:It really doesn't. The only people I can classify as "Anti-GamerGate" at the moment are people who still talk about it on twitter, document the GG actions on their subreddit etc. Some of them are even engaged in shameful poo poo. The SJ-oriented critics and devs in general (especially the ones working at the big outlets) have moved on from engaging directly with the GG crowd (installed autoblockers and such) and commenting on them, leaving GG in the permanent state of one-sided reaction to their words and work. When, say, a Kotaku writer writes a review and adds a paragraph about women in the game being badly written, you have someone with a skull avatar blasting it on their site, channel and twitter with "Kotaku SMEARS the good name of the best developer ever READ MORE", while the said Kotaku writer continues to work on another piece and maybe discusses the issue in their circle on twitter. Tauriq Moosa recently made the mistake of acknowledging the GG reaction to his writing and welp - no escape from the sealion pool.
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Jul 9, 2015 09:05
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Sea Lioning is from this comic which really makes it odd that its been used to describe GG. Is the sea lion wrong to call out prejudice against him?
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Jul 9, 2015 09:14
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Kotaku is pretty awful. Kotaku and polygon is like reading op ed pieces in the daily mail or breitbart. Same poo poo, different side of the coin. Thats why I don't carry shitcovered coins. Most people like me and wemus see the poo poo on both sides and just laugh at how dumb some people can be. Like that polygon guitar hero review. The problem comes when people on either said can only see 1 dimensional characters with their black and white vision so if you point out to either side what they're saying is bullshit you get labelled the other. Good example, Arthur Chu former nazi, all round idiot. When he was AGG people would fall over themselves defending him. When he switched they brought up the same poo poo people did when he was on their side. I remember me and wemus ripping into king of /pol/ and being some tumblr baby just before he started talking about being a holocaust denier publicly then everyone jumped off that sinking ship. Its nice here, in the wide open middle. Edit: stupid auto correct phone. Fluo fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 09:22
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Fluo posted:Good example, Arthur Chu former nazi, all round idiot. This confusion would've been the best gg running gag if not for "actually its about ethics in game journalism"
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Jul 9, 2015 09:46
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Fluo posted:The irony of mccarthyism blacklists. Lucky she isn't in Europe like the Athest+ blockbot was which was forced down by anti blacklist laws. As a leftist like me, I'm surprised when people on the left forget the construction blacklists against trade unionisrs in the 80s and 90s. Or seem to think its good when we do it. What in the blue gently caress are you on about? On what planet is a mass Twitter blocking tool even in any way comparable to a "mccarthyism blacklist"? What the gently caress even is a "mccarthyism blacklist"? quote:This is another point I'd like to make. Randi Harper is someone you don't want to be anywhere near. Ex meth head, pathological liar, $40k owed to irs, runs a paedophile message board and openly admitted to it. Before you say, this has all been known before this little shitfest. It's funny how the infamous 15mins of internet fame all came out the woodwork for this. Even if any of this were true (I'd like to see a source, preferably one more credible than Breitbart, if you please), what the gently caress does any of it have to do with gaming journalism? Randi Harper is many things, but she is not a games journalist, or a journalist at all. Hell, she isn't even an indie dev, or even remotely involved in the gaming industry whatsoever! If GamerGate is about ethics in gaming journalism, then what would any of this matter in even the slightest regard? Fluo posted:Good example, Arthur Chu former nazi, all round idiot. When he was AGG people would fall over themselves defending him. When he switched they brought up the same poo poo people did when he was on their side. Are you aware that Arthur Chu and Ian Miles Cheong are two different people? You are aware that more than one asian man exists, yes?
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Jul 9, 2015 10:30
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Ddraig posted:Please tell me what key differences exist between this argument and the classic "I'm not saying she deserved to be raped, but" argument. This had been boiling for a while. If they couldn't victimize Zoe Quinn, they'd have found someone else to beat up. Some dudes just hate women. edit: whoah, this thread moves fast. Hope the crazyperson containment field holds.
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Jul 9, 2015 11:13
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Fluo posted:Good example, Arthur Chu former nazi, all round idiot. When he was AGG people would fall over themselves defending him. When he switched they brought up the same poo poo people did when he was on their side. Uh, Arthur Chu is not the same person as Ian Miles Cheong. But Gamergaters have been making this mistake for as long as they've been part of the conversation.
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Jul 9, 2015 11:39
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Serf posted:Uh, Arthur Chu is not the same person as Ian Miles Cheong. But Gamergaters have been making this mistake for as long as they've been part of the conversation. To tell two Asians apart is asking a lot of bigots.
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Jul 9, 2015 11:44
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Guys Twitter block bots are in any way comparable to blackballing huge numbers of industrial workers because
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Jul 9, 2015 11:51
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Wow, this filled up with a whole lot of crazy overnight, and almost all of it is boilerplate 8chan sludge - an oral history, as someone mentioned. I don't have the time nor energy to pick apart this, but I'll just laser this one from orbit:Fluo posted:The irony of mccarthyism blacklists. See, this is part of why I've sometimes described Gamergate as an attack on writers by the functionally illiterate. See, 'Blocklist' and 'Blacklist' are different words. Separated by one letter, admittedly, but what a difference a letter can make. A blacklist is an oft-secret list circulated among employers of people not to hire or work with. A twitter blocklist is a public, often machine-generated (and in the case of GG-autoblocker, very simple and open source - there's no mystery to it) list of people that are likely to spam you with pictures of dead animals, child porn, abuse, threats and general internet sewage - things that you would rather not have to wade through every day if you've a halfway professional individual. I'm quite happy to admit that I've been using that particular blocklist for a while now, because at one point I was having to block or filter out over 150 accounts worth of Gamergate garbage PER DAY. I do not want to hear it or deal with it in my news feeds. It speaks of a deep personal insecurity that so many of these people feel so entitled to their right to scream directly at me that they've made multiple twitter accounts in order to bypass the list. In fact, Gamergate's few coders have come up with a few tools in general for identifying and bypassing being blocked on twitter. Because nothing says 'We're totally a good and ethical movement' like developing tools specifically to bypass anti-harassment measures set up by people who just want to be left alone. And of course, as GGAutoblocker was made by a woman, she has received almost a full year of misogynistic abuse (if I remember right, the GG codename for her is 'Blue whale'), general hate, conspiracy theories and attempts to get her fired. She has now gone into business full time as an anti-harassment consultant for companies like Facebook & Twitter and seems to be making great strides in making things better for the rest of us. Well done. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 11:55
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SedanChair posted:To tell two Asians apart is asking a lot of bigots. Come now, even some non-bigots don't know the difference between black and white people. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 9, 2015 11:58
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Fluo posted:The irony of mccarthyism blacklists. Truly one of America's darkest chapters was when Joseph McCarthy blocked a bunch of people on twitter.
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Jul 9, 2015 11:59
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Fluo posted:Arthur Chu Does the wide open middle include being a racist idiot who can't tell asian people apart? e: You can think GG is dumber than AGG and not be wrong, don't be afraid e2: And it's okay to block tweets, because they're just loving tweets BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 12:01
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In any case how is filtering twitter any different from customizing a newsfeed, or...deciding which magazines to read? "No you have to read what I say"  Karpaw posted:Come now, even some non-bigots don't know the difference between black and white people. I don't take your meaning.
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Jul 9, 2015 12:05
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Dominic White posted:Wow, this filled up with a whole lot of crazy overnight, and almost all of it is boilerplate 8chan sludge - an oral history, as someone mentioned. I don't have the time nor energy to pick apart this, but I'll just laser this one from orbit: Yep. I've been using it ever since one Gamergater decided to spam the hashtag with my username and screenshots of my profile after I blocked him. I woke up to a couple hundred tweets of porn, gore, and the usual racial/sexist slurs. So I installed the autoblocker and it's improved my Twitter experience substantially. And I can say with complete confidence that anyone who has tried to contact me from behind it is not someone I'd ever want to interact with.
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Jul 9, 2015 12:10
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SedanChair posted:I don't take your meaning. Wow, you must be really in the dark.
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Jul 9, 2015 12:57
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"These AAA titles which have been in various stages of (pre)development for years sure were a decisive response against hashtag Gamergate, a thing that started less than a year ago." This strikes me as the same line of delusion as the desperate narrative by journos that this year's E3 was somehow "better" for women than 2014, even though 2014 had more games with female protagonists. Yes, Mirrors Edge & Tomb Raider(*) & Aisha Tyler(**) sure were on the forefront of swatting down hashtag Gamergate, despite being known quantities long prior. Keep dreaming. Nobody important in AAA gives a gently caress about the high Tumblr council. (*) TR is tricky because it is either a super important milestone in achieving More Female Protagonists or Almost Literally Rape Porn, depending on what the clickbait turd agenda calls for at the time. (**) Aisha Tyler was just okay until she talked to a formerly relevant actress who will have a total of like 10 lines Skyped into a shooty gun franchise game. Now it is a historic event!
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Jul 9, 2015 13:15
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One recurring theme with GGer posts is that I often read them and realize that I don't have the first idea what the gently caress they are talking about.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:24
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Serf posted:Uh, Arthur Chu is not the same person as Ian Miles Cheong. But Gamergaters have been making this mistake for as long as they've been part of the conversation. They both make fun of this fact on twitter and retweet insults meant for the other.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:28
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GlennFinito posted:They both make fun of this fact on twitter and retweet insults meant for the other. Oh yeah. It's good that they're able to laugh at the racism. I guess there's not much more they can do at this point than call attention to the absurdity of it.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:31
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Ogmius815 posted:One recurring theme with GGer posts is that I often read them and realize that I don't have the first idea what the gently caress they are talking about. It is a unique kind of fevered babbling, isn't it? Lots of codewords, chan lingo, internal memes, howling rage at people you've never heard of and likely never will care about and a fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of many basic english words. After a year of wading through it via anywhere I have an online presence and can be contacted (hurrah for blocklists, again), I think I mostly understand it now, and feel vastly dumber for it. Even if every single allegation were true (so far, I don't think anything has stuck), and there was a massive Tumblr conspiracy to censor the media, it'd still be the most inane, pointless bullshit I've ever heard. It's like Loose Change truthers, only instead of thinking they're blowing the lid off an enormous conspiracy by the US government to embroil itself in eternal war, they feel the biggest threat to western civilization is an otherwise forgettable woman in a plaid shirt saying 'Videogames are kinda sexist sometimes' on Youtube, among others. And the thing is that they don't realize that it was their attempts to silence these women was exactly what launched them into the media spotlight in the first place, and that every time they try (and they do keep trying), they have the exact opposite effect to what they're hoping for. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 13:35
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Dominic White posted:And the thing is that they don't realize that it was their attempts to silence these women was exactly what launched them into the media spotlight in the first place, and that every time they try (and they do keep trying), they have the exact opposite effect to what they're hoping for. Anita Sarkeesian is now one of the most influential feminists active today, thanks largely to the efforts of GamerGate. Most feminists exist in a "SJW" bubble, preaching mainly to the converted. But a huge crowd of people, including avowed misogynists, hang on her every word. Every game designer in the Western world knows her name and her theories. Great job, guys.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:49
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To refocus the conversation somewhat: What can actually be done about ethics in games journalism? What argument is there that the ethics of games journalism were any different prior to Culture War: SJW Bugaboo? What kind of ethics would you prefer to see in games journalism? Why is GG seemingly so laser-focused on the behavior of women and hipsters making indie games, and not the often shady behavior of the publishing industry? What is, ultimately, the ideal effect of GG? In what ways will it make the games industry improve?
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Jul 9, 2015 13:56
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bloodysabbath posted:"These AAA titles which have been in various stages of (pre)development for years sure were a decisive response against hashtag Gamergate, a thing that started less than a year ago." Hey did you ever find your source for the claim that all these peeps are actually from super-rich families, speaking of clickbait turds? BarbarianElephant posted:Anita Sarkeesian is now one of the most influential feminists active today, thanks largely to the efforts of GamerGate. Most feminists exist in a "SJW" bubble, preaching mainly to the converted. But a huge crowd of people, including avowed misogynists, hang on her every word. Every game designer in the Western world knows her name and her theories. Great job, guys. Most feminists are doing stuff in the real world, like fighting for pay equity and mundane stuff like that that just doesn't get reported on except in the context of the larger issue.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:56
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BarbarianElephant posted:Anita Sarkeesian is now one of the most influential feminists active today, thanks largely to the efforts of GamerGate. Most feminists exist in a "SJW" bubble, preaching mainly to the converted. But a huge crowd of people, including avowed misogynists, hang on her every word. Every game designer in the Western world knows her name and her theories. Great job, guys. How does being known equate to being influential, especially in the context of computer games?
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Jul 9, 2015 13:59
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BarbarianElephant posted:Anita Sarkeesian is now one of the most influential feminists active today This is noteworthy but not for the reason you think.
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Jul 9, 2015 14:04
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poptart_fairy posted:How does being known equate to being influential, especially in the context of computer games? In Anita's case, she's pretty influential. Game designers watch her YouTube videos and discuss them publicly, so I guess something's going into their brains, which eventually percolates out into their designs. "Influential" doesn't mean the game designers at Bioware sit down before every meeting and ask "What would Anita say about this?" It's more subtle than that. GamerGate are "influential" too, in that it has made women developers more leery about having a social media presence, or at least expressing controversial opinions on it. We should do stats of strip clubs and strippers in games *before* Anita ripped it apart, and *after* to see if it made any difference. Most strip clubs in games are included innocently, because they are more interesting as fight zones than a plain old warehouse. I don't think most game designers realized what a big cliche it was. Obdicut posted:Most feminists are doing stuff in the real world, like fighting for pay equity and mundane stuff like that that just doesn't get reported on except in the context of the larger issue. The best feminists are the quiet ones, eh? The ones fighting for pay equality would surely like to have more publicity, even if they don't want a horde of trolls after them. They aren't unknown out of retiring gentle modesty, but because the media finds their issue dull.
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Jul 9, 2015 14:14
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murphyslaw posted:To refocus the conversation somewhat: Plenty. There's so much wrong with the industry right now. Leigh Alexander (unsurprisingly a Gamergate target - they've been 'infiltrating' anywhere she speaks in public to try and rant at her - a couple got caught on video and it's the most hilariously sad thing ever) put together a great (albeit partial) list of the key issues and how they could be addressed. I think we need a lot more truly independent games sites, speaking to a broader range of audiences rather than just hardcore old-school gamers (of which I consider myself one - I love me some gore, explosions and titties). Patreon seems like a good way to fund such endeavours. There needs to be more money for a wider range of writers. We need to get away from being funded by big publishers' advertising. Most good sites won't let it sway editorial content, but I'd rather see the money come directly from the audience. We need to drop review scores. They apparently break peoples brains - see the woman who got death threats for her 9/10 review score of GTA 5 on Gamespot, as opposed to the obvious 10/10 that it was meant to have. There's also the effect of Metacritic, where arbitrary scores from critics are used to determine bonuses and other developer incentives. It's all part of the same incestuous loop of money. We need more real investigative reporting that's willing to say 'gently caress the NDAs, this needs to be heard'. See this excellent piece by Jared Rosen (again, another early Gamergate target - it's almost like they hate ethical journalism) on a corporate-funded game jam that tried to turn creators on each other in a reality TV style mess, only for all the developers to walk out. We need fewer day-0 reviews out. Let games be released and reviewed as the product that exists on shelves. This should stop messes like Polygon's rolling Sim City review that failed to mention that the game was entirely broken at launch until it was amended. The hype machine in general needs to be broken - less regurgitation of press releases, more focusing on what's actually out now, especially stuff from smaller outfits that can't afford huge marketing budgets. I could go on for days, but the recurring theme is that almost every big ethical push from within the games industry, writing or development wise, has been fought against by the Gamergate swarm. They have a very strange definition of ethics. See them going after Tauriq Moosa, who literally teaches journalistic ethics at university.
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Jul 9, 2015 14:16
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Dominic White posted:It is a unique kind of fevered babbling, isn't it? Actually what strikes me is that it isn't. It's exactly the same tone as libertarians who suddenly drop "Yeah but what about the FEMA camps and the black helicopters? Watch this hour long video for more information" into a conversation out of nowhere. It's the same as the jet fuel can't melt steel beams people, and the birthers, and the more deranged Tea Partiers, and people who get all their news from AM Radio. The common denominator is that they spout nonsense that to them is self-evident, but just sounds like the ramblings of an insane person to anyone outside the bubble. Also they can't back any of it up.
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Jul 9, 2015 14:20
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BarbarianElephant posted:
They're not really quiet at all, but yeah, it's just that the media doesn't cover it, or to put it more cynically, the media tends to only label cultural criticism as 'feminism'. Pro-choice activists, for example, are called pro-choice activists and not feminists, but they are also feminists. Equal-pay advocates are feminists, but they're called equal-pay advocates. Pretty much the only time 'feminist' is used in the media is for an academic or a cultural critic. Dominic White posted:Plenty. There's so much wrong with the industry right now. Leigh Alexander (unsurprisingly a Gamergate target - they've been 'infiltrating' anywhere she speaks in public to try and rant at her - a couple got caught on video and it's the most hilariously sad thing ever) put together a great (albeit partial) list of the key issues and how they could be addressed. I agree with this, though the question is how much will this actually be better than 'citizen reviews', like, someone who doesn't do it professionally but writes up a good review of a new game? RPS is one of the only places I can think of that actually has stuff I'd elevate above just searching for reviews of a game by users on metacritic until I find one that sounds sane. quote:We need to drop review scores. They apparently break peoples brains - see the woman who got death threats for her 9/10 review score of GTA 5 on Gamespot, as opposed to the obvious 10/10 that it was meant to have. There's also the effect of Metacritic, where arbitrary scores from critics are used to determine bonuses and other developer incentives. It's all part of the same incestuous loop of money. I think every person who has tried to drop them or avoid them either has had to put them back in or has people intuit what score their words equate to. I don't think this is a big problem, actually, for consumers, because people like having a score to disagree with. It is a problem when tied to developer bonuses and it's a bit of an obsession with some producers/PR/marketing people despite no evidence at all that critic numbers impact sales. quote:We need more real investigative reporting that's willing to say 'gently caress the NDAs, this needs to be heard'. See this excellent piece by Jared Rosen (again, another early Gamergate target - it's almost like they hate ethical journalism) on a corporate-funded game jam that tried to turn creators on each other in a reality TV style mess, only for all the developers to walk out. This is a hard one to incentivize because anyone with a reputation for breaking or being willing to break NDA is unlikely to be in a position to do so. quote:We need fewer day-0 reviews out. Let games be released and reviewed as the product that exists on shelves. This should stop messes like Polygon's rolling Sim City review that failed to mention that the game was entirely broken at launch until it was amended. The hype machine in general needs to be broken - less regurgitation of press releases, more focusing on what's actually out now, especially stuff from smaller outfits that can't afford huge marketing budgets. I think there's a value in reviews that say "This stuff is buggy as poo poo right now", to stop people from buying it because they bought the hype. But otherwise I agree. I think Steam's new return policy is great for this, in that even if someone got suckered by advertising and bought a game that's working like poo poo they can just return it. However, you run into the problem of competition; if someone else is willing to do a day-0 review and you're not, they'll get eyeballs and you won't. quote:I could go on for days, but the recurring theme is that almost every big ethical push from within the games industry, writing or development wise, has been fought against by the Gamergate swarm. They have a very strange definition of ethics. See them going after Tauriq Moosa, who literally teaches journalistic ethics at university. This is absolutely true. GGers want restrictions and censorship on games journalism, couched in terms of 'ethics'. Even reporting on relationships, like "By the way I'm friends with the dude who's game I'm reviewing" is not necessarily an important ethical line but it gets treated as super-important. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 14:22
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Hulk Krogan posted:The common denominator is that they spout nonsense that to them is self-evident, but just sounds like the ramblings of an insane person to anyone outside the bubble. Also they can't back any of it up. They can totally back everything up, with reference to GamerGate sites and discussion forums. Which makes them kind of hard to argue with. They have plenty of evidence that Zoe Quinn is the devilish mastermind at the heart of the game industry. It's just all on weird MRA sites. It's a bit like pro-vaxx vs anti-vaxx. Both sides have tonnes of evidence, it's just that the pro-vaxx sites tend to end in ".gov" and ".edu" and the anti-vaxx ones tend to have a lot about herbal cleanses and chakras.
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Jul 9, 2015 14:30
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BarbarianElephant posted:We should do stats of strip clubs and strippers in games *before* Anita ripped it apart, and *after* to see if it made any difference. So lets hear what you're basing her "influence" on. I don't disagree she's well known but you're making some pretty lofty claims on what she's actually done for the industry.
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Jul 9, 2015 14:34
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Karpaw posted:Wow, you must be really in the dark. Would you care to explain? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 9, 2015 14:36
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