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Powercrazy posted:So those people are gamergate? Is brianna wu gamregate? Was she harrassing herself? You're just saying random words and names now, assuming that we'll somehow glean some deep meaning from them. Do you actually have any kind of point here? Because it takes only the very briefest of runs through google to find mountains and mountains of abuse from people proudly flying the Gamergate hashtag, green-and-purple gamepad banners and worse. As mentioned a while back, noted Gamergate developer (well, he hasn't released a game yet, but he says he will) Slade Villena has claimed to be proudly anti-harassment. He has literally been banned from Twitter 20+ times for harassment. He's a prominent figure who appears in a lot of GG-produced banners of their heroes and spokespeople, and a poster boy for how easy it is to evade bans on Twitter. Wanderer posted:It's generally going to be a good idea to mention personal ties up front, or use that as an excuse to take yourself off a given project. That said, it's very easy as even a low- to mid-tier games journalist to have those ties, because you spend a lot of time in small rooms with strong drinks talking to dudes about their creative goals and current work, and they turn around and read your work in return. If you've got any social skills, you'll know enough dudes quickly enough that it'll impact the reviews, if for no other reason than basic politeness. The mark of a truly professional reviewer is the ability to review something produced by a friend and give it an unbiased, possibly even harsh verdict. I can't find the quote right now, but Roger Ebert was notable for being just as willing to critique films by close friends as he was when dealing with the work of total strangers. If you don't believe that you can, then by all means step back and let someone else write the piece, but there's no hard and fast rule that being close to the source makes you unfit to analyse it. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 16:41
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Dominic White posted:You're just saying random words and names now, assuming that we'll somehow glean some deep meaning from them. Do you actually have any kind of point here? Because it takes only the very briefest of runs through google to find mountains and mountains of abuse from people proudly flying the Gamergate hashtag, green-and-purple gamepad banners and worse. As mentioned a while back, noted Gamergate developer (well, he hasn't released a game yet, but he says he will) Slade Villena has claimed to be proudly anti-harassment. He has literally been banned from Twitter 20+ times for harassment. He's a prominent figure who appears in a lot of GG-produced banners of their heroes and spokespeople, and a poster boy for how easy it is to evade bans on Twitter. If Gamergate were in any way capable of acting rationally they'd take a genuine stance against harassment, recognizing that as long as any harassment exists, it will make their job more difficult. I mean, if their job wasn't harassing women.
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Jul 9, 2015 16:45
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Powercrazy posted:There are issues with privilege theory that would obviously go beyond the scope of this thread. But you can be a feminist without subscribing to it is all I'm saying. I asked a pretty simple question: Privilege theory is, at the basic level, the idea that some groups are privileged over others in our society, such as white people over non-whites, and men over women. Do you believe this is true, or do you deny that this is true? Wanderer posted:
I just don't feel like, comparing most 'professional' reviews with dedicated amateur reviews, that the former really bring that much, with a few notable exceptions. quote:
Citizen reviewers aren't a monolithic group, any more than professional reviewers are. quote:It's generally going to be a good idea to mention personal ties up front, or use that as an excuse to take yourself off a given project. That said, it's very easy as even a low- to mid-tier games journalist to have those ties, because you spend a lot of time in small rooms with strong drinks talking to dudes about their creative goals and current work, and they turn around and read your work in return. If you've got any social skills, you'll know enough dudes quickly enough that it'll impact the reviews, if for no other reason than basic politeness. I don't think it's necessary to mention personal ties up front--financial, yes, personal, no--and definitely not to take yourself off a given project. The latter part of what you're saying is what I'm talking about : any professional reviewer who has any access is automatically going to be 'friendly' with a large number of developers, PR people, producers, etc. More complexly, they may be friends with someone on the team who wanted, say, more focus on multiplayer, and not as close friends with someone who wanted single-player. In the end, clarifying all of this is pretty pointless, to me. Reviews are read with skepticism anyway, and everyone should assume that the person doing the review might like, dislike, or otherwise have some sort of personal relationship with any number of people involved in the project. This fits with the ethics of, say, movie reviewing, where Ebert's main caution is to the reviewer that they should be unafraid to give a negative review to a friend's work because if the friend is upset, they weren't much of a friend anyway. In reference to what you said about E3: the beginning of 'feminism in the game industry' that I can recall was the movement against 'booth babes' as part of what made E3 and games in general a demeaning space for women. This long predates any of this stuff, and shows the concerns and issues with this problem in the industry have been around for quite awhile.
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Jul 9, 2015 16:48
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TehSaurus posted:If Gamergate were in any way capable of acting rationally they'd take a genuine stance against harassment, recognizing that as long as any harassment exists, it will make their job more difficult. I mean, if their job wasn't harassing women. There have been multiple times when I've seen Gamergaters telling others to stop harassing people because "it makes us look bad" and others who were telling each other to leave the tag out of harassing messages. But even then you'll see a Vivian James avatar or green-and-purple controller icon yelling nonsense/slurs at someone because they have no idea how to conduct themselves, even as part of their misogynistic harassment campaign.
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Jul 9, 2015 16:50
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poptart_fairy posted:So lets hear what you're basing her "influence" on. I don't disagree she's well known but you're making some pretty lofty claims on what she's actually done for the industry. Neil Druckmann from Naughty Dog said that Anita Sarkeesian has influenced how he wrote women in The Last of Us. (although The Last of Us is literally built around a "Girl in the Fridge" trope)
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Jul 9, 2015 16:56
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Mutation posted:Neil Druckmann from Naughty Dog said that Anita Sarkeesian has influenced how he wrote women in The Last of Us. A lot of devs have said they pay special attention to her critique. Volition have said they keep it in mind when writing the Saints Row games, which would explain why the past two games have a pretty great balance of cool/stupid/funny stuff done by either gender.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:00
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Obdicut posted:Malthusians aren't idiots--except for the ones who apply his dour moral framework of negative reinforcement, which this guy obviously isn't. The idea he proposes is unworkable for sociological reasons, but the problem identified is real, as are the ethical concerns identified. Malthus was way, way ahead of his time in thinking about sustainability. No, Malthus is actually pretty bad because he couldn't imagine a situation where population growth would go down naturally (because he was a priest and didn't believe in things like Birth Control). This still has nothing to do with Gamergate.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:01
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Dominic White posted:You're just saying random words and names now, assuming that we'll somehow glean some deep meaning from them. Do you actually have any kind of point here? Because it takes only the very briefest of runs through google to find mountains and mountains of abuse from people proudly flying the Gamergate hashtag, green-and-purple gamepad banners and worse. As mentioned a while back, noted Gamergate developer (well, he hasn't released a game yet, but he says he will) Slade Villena has claimed to be proudly anti-harassment. He has literally been banned from Twitter 20+ times for harassment. He's a prominent figure who appears in a lot of GG-produced banners of their heroes and spokespeople, and a poster boy for how easy it is to evade bans on Twitter. The point is anyone can post whatever they want using the gamergate hashtag. KiA is a better indicator to me of what gamergate actually is. So harassing tweets are bad, and reflect a culture of misogyny, but the "movement" has moved beyond that even if that's where the initial frustration broke.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:02
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There was also the forums moderator who happened to be a woman, and she was blamed for Mighty No. 9 being a SJW 'ruined' game and people demanding their money back from a kickstarter.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:02
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The idea of "Booth Babes" has always been pretty repulsive to me. A good newer example is the obnoxious Game of War mobile game ads on TV with Kate Upton.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:03
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That's another "fact" that GamerGate both confirms and denies: Anita is both incredibly powerful, yet nothing at the same time. Another 'fact' was that Anita had been brought in as a consultant for Mirror's Edge 2. This is why Faith has been 'de-asianified' because Anita hates the Japanese. Turns out this fact is so untrue that not only did Anita repeatedly deny it, but EA denied it aswell. This presents a bit of a dilemma in the mind of the GGer because it's clear it's a huge, vast conspiracy but EA... it's a game's company, not a
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Jul 9, 2015 17:04
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Nonsense posted:There was also the forums moderator who happened to be a woman, and she was blamed for Mighty No. 9 being a SJW 'ruined' game and people demanding their money back from a kickstarter. Her terrible crime against gaming: She posted fan-art of a female alternate main character and said it would be nice to play as. And for no reason whatsoever (she had long since left Comcept), she started getting fresh abuse and threats when Gamergate kicked off. Clearly a coincidence, again. (The punchline: Apparently MN9 has a playable female character now, and this was always planned from the start)
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Jul 9, 2015 17:05
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Hellthread spent a while posting about her ulterior motives, and her seductive/predatory influence with one Keiji Inafune.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:10
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Mutation posted:Neil Druckmann from Naughty Dog said that Anita Sarkeesian has influenced how he wrote women in The Last of Us. It is literally impossible to avoid all tropes. Ellie is well drawn as a person in her own right, not just as a motivation for the main character. In fact, she's probably more interesting than the main character.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:13
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computer parts posted:No, Malthus is actually pretty bad because he couldn't imagine a situation where population growth would go down naturally (because he was a priest and didn't believe in things like Birth Control). That doesn't make him 'pretty bad'. People are allowed to be wrong in personal and moral views and still contribute to philosophical thought. He did know and understand that birth control existed, he just morally disapproved of it. Lots of philosophers, especially Enlightenment era philosophers, had some views that are absurd as hell, while having theories and concepts and understandings that are valuable. Powercrazy posted:The point is anyone can post whatever they want using the gamergate hashtag. KiA is a better indicator to me of what gamergate actually is. So harassing tweets are bad, and reflect a culture of misogyny, but the "movement" has moved beyond that even if that's where the initial frustration broke. A quick look at KiA shows they are really obsessed with SJWs. They also have a thread about that Airplay thing where they call a roster including Milo--who is definitely a harassing weirdo--impressive. So they haven't really moved beyond that. To put it another way, if they've moved beyond it, why is Milo Yiannopoulos still associated with it?
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Jul 9, 2015 17:14
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Obdicut posted:I just don't feel like, comparing most 'professional' reviews with dedicated amateur reviews, that the former really bring that much, with a few notable exceptions. That's a reasonable reaction to the current state of play. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are very few game journalists even from the late '90s to mid '00s who are still on that end of the industry. For a long time, it was viewed, rightly or wrongly, as a springboard to a position as a developer, marketer, or consultant, rather than a position worth having for its own sake. There aren't any big voices in the field because anyone with any brains will leave it when he or she has the slightest opportunity, which has only recently begun to change with stuff like Giant Bomb, RPS, and a couple of guys like Jeremy Parish. It's a problem, which is why I suggested independent crowd-funding as a solution. I suppose the disconnect here is that when you say "dedicated amateur reviews," I'm picturing some half-literate forums spew from a 14-year-old with no critical thinking skills who types with his forehead, or a neckbeard ranting into a video camera in front of his shelf porn. I've been working with the general games-playing public off and on for long enough that I have a very poor opinion of the dedicated amateur. Powercrazy posted:KiA is a better indicator to me of what gamergate actually is. So the "movement" is entry-level sick burns against a straw man cabal of "social justice warriors," Reddit drama, and the occasional attempt to make money off of each other. You change that world, sunny Jim. You change it hard.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:14
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Wanderer posted:
Yeah, let me clarify that you have to scroll through about 40 reviews of that type to find the 1 good one, on the other hand it stands out with the good spelling, the orthography, and the lack of all caps so it's easy to find.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:16
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Ddraig posted:That's another "fact" that GamerGate both confirms and denies: Anita is both incredibly powerful, yet nothing at the same time. Yeah, she's utterly wrong about everything and totally without influence or respect, yet is simultaneously the standard-bearer and main face for a shadowy and powerful social-justice cabal that is going to take gaming's nuts off with a belt sander. It's the GamerGate version of that Eco quote that pops up constantly in the right-wing media/Freeper threads: through a "constant shifting of rhetorical focus," their enemies are at once too strong to be denied and too weak to be taken seriously.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:17
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Nonsense posted:Hellthread spent a while posting about her ulterior motives, and her seductive/predatory influence with one Keiji Inafune. I saw a video about her linked once. It's hilarious how crazy people like skullguy are.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:20
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BarbarianElephant posted:It is literally impossible to avoid all tropes. Ellie is well drawn as a person in her own right, not just as a motivation for the main character. In fact, she's probably more interesting than the main character. I think he's referring to Sarah, Joel's daughter who dies in his arms. Which is the most heartbreaking moment in a video game I've ever experienced. I had to put the game down for a bit. It would have been equally heartbreaking, were it a young son being killed (I'm a father). The effect on Joel would have been the exact same, though I don't think his relationship with Ellie would have been as meaningful. That entire opening sequence was a god damned masterpiece, and nuts to anyone who harumphs at it for being a "girl in the refridgerator" trope.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:27
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Wanderer posted:
The funniest attempt is "The Sarkeesian Effect" a documentary about Anita Sarkeesian starring a white nationalist  on paper and an Ayn Rand spouting Vlogger.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAkWjT6Oops They are asking for $15,000 for this.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:28
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Talmonis posted:I think he's referring to Sarah, Joel's daughter who dies in his arms. Which is the most heartbreaking moment in a video game I've ever experienced. I had to put the game down for a bit. It would have been equally heartbreaking, were it a young son being killed (I'm a father). The effect on Joel would have been the exact same, though I don't think his relationship with Ellie would have been as meaningful. That entire opening sequence was a god damned masterpiece, and nuts to anyone who harumphs at it for being a "girl in the refridgerator" trope. I know you were referring to Sarah. I was just saying that "Last Of Us" has a great female character in Ellie.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:29
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Wanderer posted:
Welcome to online activism. Obdicut posted:A quick look at KiA shows they are really obsessed with SJWs. They also have a thread about that Airplay thing where they call a roster including Milo--who is definitely a harassing weirdo--impressive. So they haven't really moved beyond that. Milo is an employed click-bait journalist, but he doesn't really do any harassment? So what's the problem. And yea they are definitely upset at sjws.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:33
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Violet_Sky posted:The funniest attempt is "The Sarkeesian Effect" a documentary about Anita Sarkeesian starring a white nationalist The big reveal now for these guys is that Anita was (allegedly) raped by her father which is why she's such a bitch with huge daddy issues. These guys are so bad that most people in GamerGate, even, see them as clowns. That's quite a feat.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:33
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Who's Milo and why do Hellthreaders use first name basis for internet crazy people?
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Jul 9, 2015 17:34
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Ddraig posted:The big reveal now for these guys is that Anita was (allegedly) raped by her father which is why she's such a bitch with huge daddy issues. So they are slandering a (probably still alive) man by throwing baseless rape accusations at him? I thought these guys were into Men's Rights.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:35
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Talmonis posted:I think he's referring to Sarah, Joel's daughter who dies in his arms. Which is the most heartbreaking moment in a video game I've ever experienced. I had to put the game down for a bit. It would have been equally heartbreaking, were it a young son being killed (I'm a father). The effect on Joel would have been the exact same, though I don't think his relationship with Ellie would have been as meaningful. That entire opening sequence was a god damned masterpiece, and nuts to anyone who harumphs at it for being a "girl in the refridgerator" trope. The problem isn't any particular use of the trope, it's how often it's used in the industry overall, and how that's often the only representation women get. Last of Us is reportedly pretty good about the latter.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:38
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Nonsense posted:Who's Milo and why do Hellthreaders use first name basis for internet crazy people? He's a click-bait journalist with a wierd last name. Would you prefer people referred to him as "nero?" https://twitter.com/nero
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Jul 9, 2015 17:40
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Nonsense posted:Who's Milo and why do Hellthreaders use first name basis for internet crazy people? Milo Yiannopoulos, an extremely unethical British Breitbart blogger who utterly loathes trans people but is supported by gamergate cause he rails against feminists.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:42
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Nonsense posted:Who's Milo and why do Hellthreaders use first name basis for internet crazy people? Milo Yiannopoulos is a Breitbart contributor. He really despised games and the people who play them right up until he saw an opportunity to recruit a bunch of people for the culture war, at which point he suddenly became a standard-bearer. He didn't name GamerGate--that was Adam Baldwin--but he's one of the people most responsible for perpetuating and organizing it, mostly around himself. Speaking for myself, I have to Google him every time to spell his last name, so sometimes I just say "Milo." 7c Nickel posted:The problem isn't any particular use of the trope, it's how often it's used in the industry overall, and how that's often the only representation women get. Last of Us is reportedly pretty good about the latter. Yeah, that's a disconnect that Sarkeesian herself has with her work, and it's one that she should probably be more careful about. In her videos, it's about the frequency of certain tropes' usage, particularly with regard to female characters; when she's anywhere else, particularly Twitter, she'll go off about a given trope being used at all. It was kind of a thing earlier this year with Dying Light. Last of Us is very good about the latter, but you have to get a fair way into the game before it pays off.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:45
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Nonsense posted:Who's Milo and why do Hellthreaders use first name basis for internet crazy people? This actually weirds me out in general. A lot of folks seem to use first names too much when referring to public figures.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:45
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Okay, thanks for the follow-up, Breitbart contributors are sure fire winners in this here gamer war.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:46
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Ogmius815 posted:This is exactly what I mean. What the gently caress does this have to do with anything? What is wrong with all your brains? Read the second paragraph again. GG's aversion to calls for more diversity in games is in no small part due to the type of person who usually issues them. By now it's poisoned the well and become something to reflexively unite against, whether the target fits the stereotype or not. Why does Moosa fall into that group? Because birthrates in most developed countries are already below replacement level. But 1 billion people or so giving up on a basic biological urge is not that radical and surely won't have unintended consequences beyond saving the environment. I'm sure he's not influenced by the ego cult that makes proponents of antinatalism like this cloistered ivory tower idiot use words like "procreator" and "breeder" sincerely without thinking about how they sound to anyone who knows or wants the joy of being a parent (i.e. most people).
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Jul 9, 2015 17:47
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Powercrazy posted:He's a click-bait journalist with a wierd last name. Would you prefer people referred to him as "nero?" The reason Gamergate is winning is because we have the prettier gay men @Nero  That's some Karl Rove levels of bubble inhabiting there, Cletus.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:49
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Useful Distraction posted:Milo Yiannopoulos, an extremely unethical British Breitbart blogger who utterly loathes trans people but is supported by gamergate cause he rails against feminists. Considering the general tone of Gamergate towards trans people, I'd say that your conjunction there should be "and", not "but".
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Jul 9, 2015 17:50
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Karpaw posted:Read the second paragraph again. GG's aversion to calls for more diversity in games is in no small part due to the type of person who usually issues them. Women and minorities?
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Jul 9, 2015 17:51
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BarbarianElephant posted:So they are slandering a (probably still alive) man by throwing baseless rape accusations at him? I thought these guys were into Men's Rights. According to Owen, Davis was at the very least: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6uJnBSJ69Q Although Owen assures everyone, Anita included, that it will not be included in the documentary. His documentary. God only knows what Spider Jerusalem is doing.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:52
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My favourite bit about The Sarkeesian Effect is Jordan Owen writing a long screed telling everyone who didn't like his soundtrack to the trailer to gently caress off because the song is perfect and he loves it. And then immediately says it sounds so bad because Davis Aurini made him use crappy sounds. Full story: http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/...effect-trailer/
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Jul 9, 2015 18:04
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Violet_Sky posted:The funniest attempt is "The Sarkeesian Effect" a documentary about Anita Sarkeesian starring a white nationalist $15,000 A MONTH. Just to start filming. They've not been getting that much, hence its delay, but they've still been making ~$10k a month for most of the past year, apparently just for making random grumpy noises at feminists. Here's all you need to know about the project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdIHK8O5yo With their recent breakup, Gamergate has lost faith, so their funding is down to a mere $7600 a month - a pittance, really. Not enough to even warm up the webcam for. So desperate are MRAs that they're willing to throw $120,000 on loving nothing, in the vain hope that Sarkeesian is taken down a notch. Someday. Maybe. If they continue as they have, by the end of the year they'll have taken as much as Sarkeesian did on Kickstarter, and will likely have still produced absolutely nothing of note. And yet the word 'scam' or 'fraud' never seems to be mentioned in Gamergate circles. I wonder why? Dominic White fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 18:15
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Nonsense posted:Who's Milo and why do Hellthreaders use first name basis for internet crazy people? Nobody wants to write Mr. Yiannopolous.
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