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Meme Emulator posted:Nobody wants to write Mr. Yiannopolous. Yiannopolous vs Sarkeesian, a perfect Scrabble score.
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Jul 9, 2015 18:31
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Nonsense posted:Who's Milo and why do Hellthreaders use first name basis for internet crazy people? The same reason people use Anita in this thread. Both last names are loving long and complicated compared to simple 4 or 5 letter first names. Obdicut posted:"Privilege theory" just means recognizing that sexism exists in our society and men are privileged above women, and that racism exists and white people are privileged above black people. Please note this does not mean "In each an every individual case" but in aggregate. Feminists and civil rights activists have written about "Shame culture" for a long time now and how current attitudes are toxic towards their movements from getting poo poo done to scaring away normal people. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 18:43
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NutritiousSnack posted:
I don't know what this has to do with what I said. Can you explain?
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Jul 9, 2015 18:52
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Obdicut posted:I don't know what this has to do with what I said. Can you explain? Most people aren't feminist by any definition outside of an extremely pedantic one. Most people are scared away by any mention of feminism or the title of it. There are more tea partiers than feminists. Furthermore, most people disagree with basic feminist ideas. 60% of Americans are against abortion for example, in any circumstance. They agree with basic poo poo like "Women deserve to go to college and equal pay" but I think that's not a real indicator of a feminist mindset in the general public.
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Jul 9, 2015 18:56
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BarbarianElephant posted:It is literally impossible to avoid all tropes. Ellie is well drawn as a person in her own right, not just as a motivation for the main character. In fact, she's probably more interesting than the main character. Talmonis posted:That entire opening sequence was a god damned masterpiece, and nuts to anyone who harumphs at it for being a "girl in the refridgerator" trope. Torpes are just writing tools. They are a similar set of circumstances used in literature. The key is to making the trope good, new and detailed enough so that you don't end up being cliche. Only idiots who think they are smarter than everyone else sneer at such things (see morons who make gigantic lists of tropes and think they've magically figured out all media). Also, tropes aren't inherently bad. They're just tools. It is how you use them that makes them good or bad. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:00
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NutritiousSnack posted:Most people aren't feminist by any definition outside of an extremely pedantic one. Most people are scared away by any mention of feminism or the title of it. There are more tea partiers than feminists. Okay, how does this connect with what I said?
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Jul 9, 2015 19:06
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NutritiousSnack posted:Furthermore, most people disagree with basic feminist ideas. 60% of Americans are against abortion for example, in any circumstance. It's 50% and growing, actually. A lot of the middle-range feminist ideas are pretty reasonable. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a similar attitude to Obamacare in play: the individual tenets of the philosophy, when decoupled from it, have more widespread support than the philosophy itself, particularly given the tendency to construct the feminist perspective as a straw man.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:12
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I'm very pleased youth voters aren't really paid attention to if they seriously start pushing that GENERATION THAT ENDS ABORTION poo poo.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:13
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Obdicut posted:Okay, how does this connect with what I said? You are presenting an off-topic false dichotomy implying that because sexism exists, privilege theory is the only explanation. Not to mention obtusely presenting a complex, controversial, sociological field of study as a common-sense, "just-asking questions", concern troll. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 9, 2015 19:14
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Nonsense posted:I'm very pleased youth voters aren't really paid attention to if they seriously start pushing that GENERATION THAT ENDS ABORTION poo poo. Surely that is just a vocal minority, right?
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Jul 9, 2015 19:15
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Wanderer posted:It's 50% and growing, actually. Thats a good sign. After seeing alot of southern/middle states slowly gutting/tweaking abortion laws, i was getting discouraged.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:15
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Wanderer posted:It's 50% and growing, actually. This is the truth. For the longest time I refused to call myself a feminist, as my only personal "example" of one was an obnoxious 30 year old male women's studies major with a penchant for grandstanding and condescension. Being confronted with it by a few patient goons over the years has certainly helped me realize that most folks aren't nearly that obnoxious.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:17
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Wanderer posted:The games that have come out so far this year have all represented a slight but distinct slide away from the GamerGate position while somehow not ending the universe or criminalizing sex; half the mainstream games have a create-a-character mode, all the women in Mortal Kombat X are wearing pants, and they actively desexualized Lara loving Croft. Lara Croft has been wearing a coat and pants for a decade now, with her breast size notable turned down. This statement is so loving untrue it's easily the funniest post in this thread From David Auerbach's twitter account because he got bored of writing about the idiots on both sides years ago. "It's like if all the movie reviews in the local newspaper were written by film studies professors who only like Atom Egoyan and stuff like that but were paid to pretend to be excited for the new Transformers movie." --TheHuss The "indie" press (for lack of a better term: Kotaku, Polygon, Gamasutra, and a slew of lesser outfits) have been unhappy with the E3. Gamergate hasn't been quite the focus, but it's been an undercurrent. Christian Nutt's focus on Gamergate in the E3 coverage (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/246125/The_ESA_clarifies_its_antiharassment_stance_future_of_E3.php) may seem perplexing. Why badger the ESA head now, ten months after Gamergate began, about why the ESA won't speak about GG? Especially when he clearly is Not Going to Say Anything? There has been an undercurrent of rage from the non-mainstream gaming press toward the AAAs and the AAA press over the AAA refusal to rail against Gamergate and demonize its members. The adoption of ethics policies by IGN also smacked of appeasement to them. Over the months of coverage, there's been repeated sniping from all the journalists and many indie devs that the AAAs are just standing back and letting Gamergate happen, they're enabling the harassment, etc. (I'll just use "journos" to refer to that particular unhappy segment of the "indie" gaming press so I can stop typing "indie" in quotes.") This rage is mostly impotent frustration. The journos wanted to use Gamergate as a lever for greater influence over the AAAs and to be included at the table for industry discussions. And given that the journos and their allies were increasingly out of sync with the majority of gamers, AAA support was their best bet for pushing their vision of what gaming should be, and, more baldly, for gaining influence. So if the AAAs were to say, "Gamergate is terrible, what can we do?", the journos could pipe up and say, "Glad you asked! Listen to us! Change your games like we say! Become art!" But the AAAs never asked. Despite the attempts of the journos to spin every AAA mention of harassment as a specific condemnation of Gamergate, the journos have continued to complain that the AAAs don't care about Gamergate. The thing is, the journos are pretty much right. The AAAs *are* supporting Gamergate, at least tacitly. They don't want the journos to gain any more influence (or to stop losing influence), and they loathe this pseudo-academic "critique" stuff just as much as your average gamer. The thought of having to kiss the rear end of some PhD in order to gain an Indie or Social Justice imprimatur is insulting to them. They've got money to make. So by remaining silent on Gamergate and having IGN do the pageantry of adopting an ethics policy (no skin off their nose), the AAAs signalled that they were not in alignment with the journos. And they aren't. They are happy to see Gamergate take these people on--and that enrages the journos all the more. This wasn't a planned strategy on behalf of the AAAs, but it was an easy call to make once Gamergate was in play. It's also important to understand the difference between amateur and professional corruption. If you talk to service workers at restaurants, they'll generally tell you that the worst treatment usually comes from small independent restaurants. Corporate chains and franchises tend to establish standards in order to ameliorate the possibility of lawsuits and to keep the corporate name's reputation intact. While treatment may not be great, there's an HR department ready to crack down if any one person gets out of hand. In a small restaurant, however, some crazy chef can be as much of a jerk as he wants, and no one can stop him as long as the place is successful. I can tell you horror stories. Capitalism is venal and heartless but it does tend to exert a smoothing effect with scale; excesses both positive and negative get ironed out and professionalized in the pursuit of making money efficiently. Albert O. Hirschman's The Passions and the Interests: Political Arguments for Capitalism Before Its Triumph is a fantastic little book about the early theorizing of capitalism and how its proponents argued that financial interest was a much more predictable and much less harmful motive than most other motives that people ever acted on. Hirschman was pretty left and very smart: http://www.waggish.org/2005/albert-o-hirschman-the-passions-and-the-interests/ And it is fortunate for men to be in a situation in which, though their passions may prompt them to be wicked, they have nevertheless an interest in not being so. --Montesquieu Which is to say, corporate corruption is *professional*. The journos and their favored devs made such easy targets for Gamergate because their corruption was absurdly inept. The AAAs and mouthpieces like IGN and GameInformer and PCGamer run a professional outfit: sure, it's all a big PR con job, but they aren't going to have journalists reviewing games by people they're publicly friends with (or if called out on it, they'll apologize, add disclosures, blah blah), and they eventually realize to cut out the Doritos nonsense, even if a bit too late. Moreover, they aren't going to be dumb enough to run a bunch of articles on the death of gamers. (That would be the "passions" trumping the "interests.") As far as incompetent corruption goes, the journos were the low-hanging fruit. Investigation into AAA corruption would take boots on the ground that Gamergate doesn't have. The journos made it easy. Indie scenes have always celebrated themselves, but they usually don't make themselves targets to quite this extent. So Gamergate has been pretty convenient for the AAAs. Gamergate is doing the dirty work of distracting, annoying, and quieting a chronic irritation for the AAAs, and the AAAs just have to sit back and keep quiet. This drives the journos crazy, but there's not much they can do about it, short of politely griping in articles like Nutt's (or impolitely griping on Twitter). Meanwhile, the AAAs are cutting off Kotaku and Polygon even as gamers stop paying attention to them. The journos' strategy has backfired. There must have been some collective delusion that they thought their influence could actually pull some weight with the AAAs, even with Gamergate as a potential lever. As I've said before, I don't know what they were thinking. They ragequit their audience. "We really did wind up on an elitist 'strategy' for whatever strategy existed, which was none. What makes it elitist? Well, we never actually bothered to try and convince the gaming public along the way. The end result was this split we can now see: Most gamers hated all this poo poo." --LoadingReadyRun poster And another. https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-truth-about-e3-2015-and-female-protagonists-b006094e44b1 There were less female protagonists then last years E3, AAA doesn't give a poo poo about the press and actively snubbed them this year, and the push towards lack of sexualized women was here for around the better part of a decade but the sale of things like the Witcher 3 shows the market is still extremely friendly towards it. gently caress I can point out towards stupid poo poo like SJW is now becoming more of insult towards among devs among devs and idiots on twitter they don't like, even after the whole "Social Justice Paladian LULZ!" thing they tried earlier. GamerGate has a lovely rep but that's inconsequential towards their opponents developing one of their own.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:17
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A lot of people agree with most feminist principles, but don't define themselves that way. Being a "feminist" is seen as a lifestyle thing.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:19
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Skeletons as a word filter is cool.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:20
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BarbarianElephant posted:A lot of people agree with most feminist principles, but don't define themselves that way. Being a "feminist" is seen as a lifestyle thing. By whom?
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Jul 9, 2015 19:23
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Powercrazy posted:You are presenting an off-topic false dichotomy implying that because sexism exists, privilege theory is the only explanation. Not to mention obtusely presenting a complex, controversial, sociological field of study as a common-sense, "just-asking questions", concern troll. Yeah, no, it's not controversial at all. Privilege is just an observable fact: some groups are privileged over others. Privilege theory just says that as well as paying attention to active discrimination, we should also pay attention to the privileges that people get. It's pretty common-sense, actually. The word itself is kind of clunky, since it implies a normative state, but the actual theory is very basic. It's not actually an explanation for sexism, either, it's just a description of observable facts. It doesn't in any way say 'sexism exists because of privilege'--that'd be a tautology. I'm not 'just asking questions', and I'm not at all a troll--I make my points really clearly and I stand behind them. The questions I'm asking are sincere--that you want to dodge them doesn't make them insincere.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:23
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SedanChair posted:...Arthur Chu is a former nazi? Where did you get this information? Serf posted:While I've seen the stuff about Ian Miles Cheong being a "Nazi", I've never heard this about Arthur Chu. Please point to some evidence of this? BravestOfTheLamps posted:Hahahaha, yes, dig that hole. Deeper! Make it deeper! Thank you all for passive aggressively PMing me when I was at work. I would like to ask if you also deny he was in on gang rapes and would defend gang rapes because it wasn't "important" that girls were gang raped by his friends.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:26
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NutritiousSnack posted:There were less female protagonists then last years E3, AAA doesn't give a poo poo about the press and actively snubbed them this year, and the push towards lack of sexualized women was here for around the better part of a decade but the sale of things like the Witcher 3 shows the market is still extremely friendly towards it. Comparing Witcher 1 and 3 (I skipped 2), I say there is an amazing difference in terms of sexualization of women. In Witcher 1 you could sleep with pretty much any attractive female character, even "generic peasant lass #47." Witcher 3 has much more limited romantic prospects, and they are all detailed as people, not just scorecards. Ciri, Geralt's adopted daughter, is a prominent and well-made character, and though pretty, not particularly sexualized. It's leaps and bounds ahead. Making a game more woman-friendly does not mean excising all attractive women or sex scenes.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:26
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Wanderer posted:It's 50% and growing, actually. Cool a single Gallup poll. I remember this bullshit http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/21/16626932-nbcwsj-poll-majority-for-first-time-want-abortion-to-be-legal I guess it fell whooping 20% There are numerous ones on this issue and all point towards split towards Anti Choice or Pro Life. This thread and Freepers have a lot in common in that they both convinced themselves they are the silent majority when in fact their views are pretty fringe (reproduction rights not being fringe but slightly outside of the majority opinion however) The basic ideas like women deserve equal pay is normal and mainstream, but a bet a lot of open, loud and proud racists/sexists hold these ideas as true too. Obdicut posted:Okay, how does this connect with what I said? Privilege theory is "just this" and Feminism is something most Americans agree with. I said some feminists are getting sick of it and Americans aren't.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:28
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murphyslaw posted:To refocus the conversation somewhat: Effectively nothing. The best that COULD be done, however, would be to exploit crowdfunding (Patreon, Indiegogo, Kickstarter) to create a review site/youtube series (latter is pretty popular) that doesn't take publisher bribes, and allows a variety of opinions. This would never overtake the industry that benefits from publisher perks that generate views such as early preview copies, and at worst would become corrupt itself eventually. There's no societal pressure you can really use to crush enthusiast press; they will always be beholden to marketers because the earliest reviews are the ones that generate the most views. quote:What argument is there that the ethics of games journalism were any different prior to Culture War: SJW Bugaboo? There really isn't one; Ethics in game journalism have been as corrupt for as long as marketers have acknowledged their existence. They don't have any actual plan for stopping this. As for the change where people bring progressive critiques to videogames, this could be attributed to the rise of social media sites allowing likeminded people to congregate and focus criticism, as well as the backlash towards people harassing Anita Sarkeesian during her kickstarter. There's always been some layer of progressives praising games, but it's always been veiled as "this game has Good Story, this game has Bad Story", and Gamergate shows why that was necessary. quote:What kind of ethics would you prefer to see in games journalism? The ideal would be a situation where publishers are unable to pressure critics, critics are under no pressure to bring favorable reviews, critics are allowed to bring whatever critiques they consider important forward without any sort of harassment brigade flooding them, and critics are paid well enough that they don't have to rely on publisher "gifts" to stay afloat. Many of these aren't very likely, due to the nature of Enthusiast Press. quote:Why is GG seemingly so laser-focused on the behavior of women and hipsters making indie games, and not the often shady behavior of the publishing industry? It's depressingly simple; They don't mind corruption within the games industry or the enthusiast press because it doesn't harm them, the end-consumer. They don't care that Shadows of Mordor involved corrupt practices because Game Good, they minded Simcity's corrupt reviews because Game Bad. They care about progressive change, critics, and games because it directly affects what they devour; they don't even need to be sexist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic etc., they just need to think Change is inherently Bad. It's also no secret that a large group of young liberals have always held conservative views on freedoms, diversity, business, etcetera, but have consumed the image of conservatives being hyperdevils, so gravitated towards the "Good" side. Gamergate is the result of these Libertarians crashing into the base Liberals. Criticism of Consumer Product becomes Censorship, non-perfect review of a Good Consumer Product is Political Correctness Gone Wrong, criticism of consumer behavior becomes Fascist-Think and must be censored, and neoconservative lip-service towards their group becomes Good Politics. quote:What is, ultimately, the ideal effect of GG? In what ways will it make the games industry improve? Stories are never criticized, gameplay can never be judged on a political level, games are acknowledged as never having any meaning, feminist reviewers are replaced by "ironic" /pol/ reviewers. Bad Liberals are gone and Good Liberals (Neoliberals (Conservatives)) remain.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:29
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BarbarianElephant posted:Comparing Witcher 1 and 3 (I skipped 2), I say there is an amazing difference in terms of sexualization of women. In Witcher 1 you could sleep with pretty much any attractive female character, even "generic peasant lass #47." Witcher 3 has much more limited romantic prospects, and they are all detailed as people, not just scorecards. Ciri, Geralt's adopted daughter, is a prominent and well-made character, and though pretty, not particularly sexualized. It's leaps and bounds ahead. Making a game more woman-friendly does not mean excising all attractive women or sex scenes. None of this stuff is a binary switch. The way that gay people are portrayed in movies and TV is a good demonstration of this. They went from completely invisible, to villainous, to campy and mockable, to campy and sassy but abnormal, to the current state where there's still a lot of awkwardly stereotypical stuff but there's also just normal people who happen to be gay. It was improvement all down the line, even if you could point to someone like Will from Will and Grace and find some faults with the portrayal there. NutritiousSnack posted:
I didn't say feminism is something most Americans agree with. I don't know what you mean by 'just this'. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:29
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Arthur Chu was a Jeopardy contestant, that's all that is on his wiki, and that's pretty much case closed on him.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:30
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NutritiousSnack posted:The thing is, the journos are pretty much right. The AAAs *are* supporting Gamergate, at least tacitly. They don't want the journos to gain any more influence (or to stop losing influence), and they loathe this pseudo-academic "critique" stuff just as much as your average gamer. The thought of having to kiss the rear end of some PhD in order to gain an Indie or Social Justice imprimatur is insulting to them. They've got money to make. So by remaining silent on Gamergate and having IGN do the pageantry of adopting an ethics policy (no skin off their nose), the AAAs signalled that they were not in alignment with the journos. And they aren't. They are happy to see Gamergate take these people on--and that enrages the journos all the more. This wasn't a planned strategy on behalf of the AAAs, but it was an easy call to make once Gamergate was in play. Wow, haven't seen a wishful spin of that scale for a long time.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:31
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Nonsense posted:Arthur Chu was a Jeopardy contestant, that's all that is on his wiki, and that's pretty much case closed on him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZLjm2w8RfE His Jewish video seems to have been deleted. Fancy that.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:32
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Fluo posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZLjm2w8RfE He's utter scum. I sorta want to blame his love of visual media.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:34
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NutritiousSnack posted:Lara Croft has been wearing a coat and pants for a decade now, with her breast size notable turned down. Well really I think this analysis is intrinsically flawed. For instance you have to believe the statement Anita Sarkeesian made on Twitter directed at Demoniusx's posts on Facebook regarding gay marriage, which is honestly a bizarre and libelous statement from Anita and her creepy Cabal aligned sentiments literally make me `NOPE` straight out of the room. Yeah Anita, you motherflipping yeah-coptering piss-mobile! Do you think your equipped to tackle these issues you hack! I can't believe this  Why don't you roll on out of here on those big rear end earings of yours and let the Adults discuss these things, jeez  When you apply Occam's Razor to this "argument" of yours... you'll discover that their method of information control that they are undertaking is actually massively intense data processing and filtering our societal ideals so they can manipulate us further, bringing them closer to them acquiring the worlds Gold Reserve. They are a crafty bunch, the Goyim, I'll give them that much. I only noticed this societal manipulation of the worlds industrial complexes as well as the pollution of modern day gaming journalism because I'm a Smart Boy who knows the various terminologies that can be said towards things in order to say its incorrect and its the wrong type of thing to say and or do. Obdicut posted:Yeah, no, it's not controversial at all. Privilege is just an observable fact: some groups are privileged over others. Privilege theory just says that as well as paying attention to active discrimination, we should also pay attention to the privileges that people get. It's pretty common-sense, actually. The word itself is kind of clunky, since it implies a normative state, but the actual theory is very basic. It's not actually an explanation for sexism, either, it's just a description of observable facts. It doesn't in any way say 'sexism exists because of privilege'--that'd be a tautology. You know, I'm inclined to agree here. I'd like to take a moment and post this super inspiring image that has rocked me to my absolute core: 
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Jul 9, 2015 19:36
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A lot of the times when I hear people talking about video games I wonder if they actually played the video game in question. Like picking Witcher 3 as your go-to example of "heh, yeah, spiting those journalists and feminists, check out these sexy women" example seems remarkably tone deaf considering the actual plots of a lot of the quests in the game. (Also the game's near-universal praise which... I guess means the spiting didn't work?)
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Jul 9, 2015 19:39
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Fluo posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZLjm2w8RfE I am loving holding you to task here. What the gently caress is a "mccarthyism blacklist" and what does it have to do with blocking annoying people on Twitter? What is a credible source for Randi Harper operating a pedophilia board? Are you aware that Ian Miles Cheong and Arthur Chu are different people, and that while you contend that they're both nazis, only one of them "flipped sides", and it wasn't the one that you named? And what the gently caress does any of this have to do with ethics in gaming journalism?
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Jul 9, 2015 19:39
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BarbarianElephant posted:Witcher 3 has much more limited romantic prospects, Witcher 1 had trading cards with concept art on them, requiring little effort. 2/3 got more are also more highly detailed and elaborate sex scenes with each iteration, with the added thing that Witcher 3 was the end of the trilogy and wanted to more heavily explore Geralt's actual love interests. Also, it was highly criticized for this and a dozen other things when it came to women characters and sexuality from Succubus characters to seeing someone's bra to "high heels" (actually riding boots". A decade long trend of toning down the size of Lara Croft's breasts isn't new. Hell, the hoo rah over her jacket is extremely dumb because even in the PS1 games the snow levels covered her up. Saying "wow look at the all the women protagonists, take that Gamer Gate" when these games where not only in development for years but there where actually less of them but marked a year when hardcore GGers got angry over a women's exclusion (Samus) in her title is even dumber. It's a mark of desperation hoping that this will finally take GG down and reverse the trend that the gaming press is loving dying and irrelevant (with little help from Gamer Gate) fatherboxx posted:Wow, haven't seen a wishful spin of that scale for a long time. Auberbach isn't pro Gamer Gate guy by any stretch of the imagination. This entire thread is filled with wishful thinking that any day now GG will stop, Gone Home represents a diverse future for mainstream games and that CoD bro shooters token female characters in side missions or multiplayer are the future.. The industry remains unchanged outside of the fact Kotaku and Polygon will be effectively dead in five to four years and has nothing to do with Gamer Gate. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:39
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The drift away from the Liberal identity is most apparent in the need to criticize the moral character of Liberal Progressives, instead of their actual arguments. Because as seen in this thread, it's effectively impossible for these Libertarians to bring forth a retort towards Liberal Progressive beliefs that wouldn't be immediately debunked or replied to with "Yeah? So?". So they are forced to emphasize how human and vulnerable these Liberal Progressives are, in the hopes that they can reconcile this schism and rejoin the Liberals. They don't want to take the side of Conservatism, they have been raised by the internet to feel that Conservative Bad, but they ultimately hold Conservative opinions, and until they half-embrace this and bookmark Breitbart.com they're always going to face this frustrating situation.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:40
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NutritiousSnack posted:Cool a single Gallup poll. I remember this bullshit If you aren't at your limit on reading Boston Globe articles, here's another one: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/09/millennial-americans-rethink-abortion-for-good-reasons/ZCmZNJuCWKVr5brzVfaiuI/story.html Fewer women are getting abortions, but support for their legal availability has never been higher. NutritiousSnack posted:Lara Croft has been wearing a coat and pants for a decade now, with her breast size notable turned down. The advertising campaign for the 2013 Tomb Raider was about Lara as a scared, young girl, at the start of her career, with the stated objective by its developers being that the player should want to "protect" her. The iconic image of her from that campaign is of her treating her own wounds. The advertising campaign for Rise of the Tomb Raider is Lara as in recovery, dealing with her problems, and moving on: the character as a competent, practiced adventurer, with a lowered focus on her combat skills. She's literally shown in therapy, and climbing a dangerous mountain, appropriately dressed and ready for anything. I think the issue here is, again, one of dueling narratives. You're clearly fond of the version in which the "SJWs" are a powerless, voiceless minority, incapable of affecting any change except for slight annoyance. I'm fond of the one where I've been loving told by developers that the "SJW" contingent had some valid points, because women are a growing demographic and they want their games to be successful. Hence, as of this year, we have a ton of games where you can choose to play as a woman if you like, and in many of the returning franchises, the role of women has been played up and more attention has been paid to their character design. It's just loving marketing, dude. That's all. Wanderer fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:42
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Fluo posted:Thank you all for passive aggressively PMing me when I was at work. You said a colossally dumb thing. There's rampant idiocy and hypocrisy among AGGers/"SJWs"/liberals, I'm sure, but this isn't a mock thread about how terrible this or that person is. This is not a thread about having a laugh at them. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:43
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ImpAtom posted:A lot of the times when I hear people talking about video games I wonder if they actually played the video game in question. Like picking Witcher 3 as your go-to example of "heh, yeah, spiting those journalists and feminists, check out these sexy women" example seems remarkably tone deaf considering the actual plots of a lot of the quests in the game. (Also the game's near-universal praise which... I guess means the spiting didn't work?) That's all a lot of people want from video games reviews, and "critics."
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Jul 9, 2015 19:46
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NutritiousSnack posted:A decade long trend of toning down the size of Lara Croft's breasts isn't new. Hell, the hoo rah over her jacket is extremely dumb because even in the PS1 games the snow levels covered her up. Saying "wow look at the all the women protagonists, take that Gamer Gate" when these games where not only in development for years but there where actually less of them but marked a year when hardcore GGers got angry over a women's exclusion (Samus) in her title is even dumber. It's a mark of desperation hoping that this will finally take GG down and reverse the trend that the gaming press is loving dying and irrelevant (with little help from Gamer Gate) You're pretty dumb. The 'gaming press' isn't dying. At best the current traditional standard of gaming press is changing to something else. Youtube reviewers and more independent sources are taking over from larger catch-all sites like IGN. The thing that you don't seem to get is that isn't going to change anything. You're going to get exactly the same thing you have right now and have had for years. Your Angry Joes and Pewdiepies and whathaveyou are already filling exactly the same niches and doing exactly the same things as 'traditional' games journalists. If anything they're even more willing to do it because they view themselves as entertainments, not traditional press. (i.e: the Fox News excuse.) Even if, tomorrow, all traditional games journalists hang up the hats and give everything over to the new generation of bloggers and Youtube personalities, you're not actually going to see significant change. Hell, you know who is a Youtube personality? Anita Sarkeesan. She was doing Youtube videos long before she started talking about video games. If traditional games journalists go away then you're going to get people saying exactly the same things but in slightly different ways. You're not suddenly going to see a decrease in, for example, videos about feminism in games. If anything you'll see a rise because clicks, even hate-clicks, are what people are looking for. Powercrazy posted:That's all a lot of people want from video games reviews, and "critics." Then if that's true you'll also have to accept people who played the game and have different opinions from you. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:48
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NutritiousSnack posted:Witcher 1 had trading cards with concept art on them, requiring little effort. 2/3 got more are also more highly detailed and elaborate sex scenes with each iteration, with the added thing that Witcher 3 was the end of the trilogy and wanted to more heavily explore Geralt's actual love interests. So you are agreeing with me? Feminists are not demanding the removal of all sex from games. They are just demanding it respects women. Geralt making love to detailed female characters who he has a connection with, isn't sexist. Geralt having sex with a bunch of women he just met and didn't care about in order to increase the notches on his bedposts is the definition of objectification.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:52
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All my nephews do is watch Youtubers all day, television is just a background thing now.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:52
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ImpAtom posted:Even if, tomorrow, all traditional games journalists hang up the hats and give everything over to the new generation of bloggers and Youtube personalities, you're not actually going to see significant change. Hell, you know who is a Youtube personality? Anita Sarkeesan. She was doing Youtube videos long before she started talking about video games. If traditional games journalists go away then you're going to get people saying exactly the same things but in slightly different ways. You're not suddenly going to see a decrease in, for example, videos about feminism in games. If anything you'll see a rise because clicks, even hate-clicks, are what people are looking for. Yeah, we're actually in an interesting transitional period. The people who would've made their breakthroughs with 'zines or relentless personal networking back in the day are now making their bones on YouTube or Twitter, and as we see with PewDiePie, that's often enough. I have to imagine that you'll see some of these guys organize themselves as they get older, or do something like "Channel Awesome"; I also figure that traditional-style writing isn't going anywhere as long as the old journalistic apparatus continues to exist. The AV Club's done some decent games writing, for example. One of the issues GamerGate's caused has actually been a rapid slowdown in the response of academia to video games. There was an article a few months ago that a couple of universities had actually funded archival projects for early software, but the argument over GamerGate had caused enough negative press that their funding got revoked. I got the feeling that the people with the purse strings on that were just looking for a reason to cut them off, and it could as easily have been a suggestively-shaped cloud or an unfortunate run-in with Uwe Boll, but it's still a setback for a potential scholarly approach. It could only be healthy for tomorrow's designers if they could go to a college campus and play old '80s games for free all day, for example.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:57
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Fluo posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZLjm2w8RfE You have to be some kind of willfully dense to hear what amounts to a pretty boilerplate explanation of the concept of rape culture and come away with ARTHUR CHU SAYS RAPE IS NORMAL, as though he's a card carrying member of NAMBLA or some poo poo. Hulk Krogan fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:58
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Wanderer posted:If you aren't at your limit on reading Boston Globe articles, here's another one: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/09/millennial-americans-rethink-abortion-for-good-reasons/ZCmZNJuCWKVr5brzVfaiuI/story.html It was just higher in late 90's by a large margin. With Anti Choice having been higher than the previous couple of years, I'm going to wait to see if this is an actual trend of just one of many fluff pieces and studies that disproven by later ones or the real deal or just s temporary up and down thing that happens all the time on this. Wanderer posted:The advertising campaign for the 2013 Tomb Raider was about Lara as a scared, young girl, at the start of her career, with the stated objective by its developers being that the player should want to "protect" her. The iconic image of her from that campaign is of her treating her own wounds. Outside of low rendered tits, that sounds actually like the previous Tomb Raider games. Likewise devs have told how much they laugh at "SJWs" and how it's become more and more mainstream to mock someone using those terms. Likewise the movement away from oversexualization is way before Anita was a thing and was something that is demonstrated by the actual timeline and progress of the Tomb Raider series. Weird rear end aberrations of Mortal Kombat 9 characters having insane bust lines even compared to previous games and then toning it down isn't a big change or indicative of anything other than the industry longer than Hollywood trying to appeal to a mass demographic. BarbarianElephant posted:So you are agreeing with me? Feminists are not demanding the removal of all sex from games. They are just demanding it respects women. Geralt making love to detailed female characters who he has a connection with, isn't sexist. Geralt having sex with a bunch of women he just met and didn't care about in order to increase the notches on his bedposts is the definition of objectification. Not all feminists agree with anything or everything. The sex scenes and depiction of female sexuality of the games where highly criticized in a time when it's extremely trendy to do so. That's it. People also defended it too but there was an extreme amount of anger over it. Also we now have people unironically defending Chu and stupid rear end Salon articles that make Milo look reasonable. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 19:59
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