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Plom Bar posted:Okay, but get this: The link you showed definitively proves that she spoke to police, the FBI, and the DHS about the threats. Your claim, that she didn't go to the police, is FALSE, according to YOUR source. You're just being disingenuous by attacking small inconsequential elements of his argument while ignoring the greater point and it doesn't make you look smart it makes it look like you just took english 103 with a professor who was really into fostering discussion and everyone hated him but you were one of the annoying 2-3 people who wouldn't shut the gently caress up.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:57
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Plom Bar posted:Maybe you missed this because it was at the bottom of the last page so here it is again, just in case you missed it: That source just quotes her; the person he is accusing of being a liar.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:57
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O__O posted:That source just quotes her; the person he is accusing of being a liar. no it doesn't learn to read also hahahaha of course it ended up on the bottom of that page too
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Jul 10, 2015 01:02
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For years I wondered what would turn my generation into Republicans. Or maybe my basis is wrong and people in my generation were right wing to begin with. After all even long before this gamers had a large libertarian population. Also why is the site called "we hunted the mammoth"?
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Jul 10, 2015 01:05
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Plom Bar posted:no it doesn't learn to read You're right. It also quotes the DA who says he never heard from her.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:08
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Uncle Wemus posted:Also why is the site called "we hunted the mammoth"? From their FAQ page: quote:Q) Ok, but you still haven’t explained the mammoth thing.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:09
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O__O posted:You're right. It also quotes the DA who says he never heard from her. So then, the claim "Brianna Wu lied to the police" is false, as is "Brianna Wu lied about reporting threats to the police". Maybe if you'd paid more attention in that English 103 class you'd have picked up some reading comprehension.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:12
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Plom Bar posted:So then, the claim "Brianna Wu lied to the police" is false, as is "Brianna Wu lied about reporting threats to the police". No. the DA the man who reports would go to and who has no reason to lie in this situation, said he received no notification of such reports or an open case. So the only person you are gleaning this info from is Brianna Wu the primary source (other than the DA) for the author of the article and also the person who's reputation is in question.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:15
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O__O posted:No. the DA the man who reports would go to and who has no reason to lie in this situation, said he received no notification of such reports or an open case. So the only person you are gleaning this info from is Brianna Wu the primary source (other than the DA) for the author of the article and also the person who's reputation is in question. The article explicitly says she spoke to local authorities, feds, and DHS. Notice that when describing these events, the language is definitive. It doesn't say "allegedly" or "reportedly" or anything suggesting that this: quote:She’s pleaded with local authorities, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security, but no one has ever been charged. In April, the FBI said it couldn’t use evidence she’d been sending agents for months unless it was transferred to a hard drive. When she did so and mailed it, agents returned it without comment. Learn. To. Read.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:18
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Plom Bar posted:The article explicitly says she spoke to local authorities, feds, and DHS. Notice that when describing these events, the language is definitive. It doesn't say "allegedly" or "reportedly" or anything suggesting that this: The FBI wouldn't say "we returned a hardrive without any comment." This is all obviously info Wu told the author. Just because the author of an article writes something doesn't make it true. Also, If he spoke to anyone from the mentioned law enforcement branches he would have said "fbi spokesman said..." in order to give the article more legitimacy. You're done. Sit down kid.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:23
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O__O posted:The FBI wouldn't say "we returned a hardrive without any comment." This is all obviously info Wu told the author. Just because the author of an article writes something doesn't make it true. Also, If he spoke to anyone from the mentioned law enforcement branches he would have said "fbi spokesman said..." in order to give the article more legitimacy. You're done. Sit down kid. Do you actually have a law degree? Because you of all people should know that wording in pieces of writing such as this makes all the difference. Why would the author suddenly stop using speculative language for that one paragraph when they were very diligent about its use for the rest of it? And if the article's veracity is impossible to determine, then we're back at square one, which is: "Prove that Brianna Wu lied about reporting abuse to police". Remember, that article was used to support YOUR side. Not mine. The fact that it did exactly the opposite was just a fun little bonus for me.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:31
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Plom Bar posted:Do you actually have a law degree? Because you of all people should know that wording in pieces of writing such as this makes all the difference. Why would the author suddenly stop using speculative language for that one paragraph when they were very diligent about its use for the rest of it? And if the article's veracity is impossible to determine, then we're back at square one, which is: "Prove that Brianna Wu lied about reporting abuse to police". Because they stopped directly quoting Wu.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:33
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Obdicut posted:Hey you keep dodging the question of what source you have for your claim Sarkeesian and the rest of them all come from hyperrich families. I assume this is because your source isn't actually something that would convince anyone else, right? I'm not "dodging" anything, I'm not engaging with a person quite obviously entrenched on the other side, in a thread where even Brianna Wu being trans was referred to by one poster as some unverified GG conspiracy theory. I get it, everything aGG has to say is Very Important Cultural Criticism, and everything GG says is a Shitlord Blowhard Conspiracy Theory. You won't accept any source that disagrees with you/hasn't been carrying water for Anita, Zoe, etc. So why waste my time? You are talking about research, and no amount of research can sway the true believers.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:58
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bloodysabbath posted:I'm not "dodging" anything, I'm not engaging with a person quite obviously entrenched on the other side, in a thread where even Brianna Wu being trans was referred to by one poster as some unverified GG conspiracy theory. Is this an elaborate way of saying "I've got no evidence"?
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Jul 10, 2015 01:59
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bloodysabbath posted:I'm not "dodging" anything, I'm not engaging with a person quite obviously entrenched on the other side, in a thread where even Brianna Wu being trans was referred to by one poster as some unverified GG conspiracy theory. You do realize that refusing to debate someone asking you to verify your claims in a forum called Debate and Discussion makes you and your movement look really absurd, right? quote:I get it, everything aGG has to say is Very Important Cultural Criticism, and everything GG says is a Shitlord Blowhard Conspiracy Theory. You won't accept any source that disagrees with you/hasn't been carrying water for Anita, Zoe, etc. So why waste my time? You are talking about research, and no amount of research can sway the true believers. There is a vast ocean of a line between "Breitbart.com is a bad source" and "You're a shitlord blowhard conspiracy theorist", right? People in this thread have declared many Gamergate theories absurd because they have been debunked or found misleading, not because they came from Gamergate. You're so absorbed in this that you can't see this
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Jul 10, 2015 02:00
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bloodysabbath posted:I'm not "dodging" anything, I'm not engaging with a person quite obviously entrenched on the other side, in a thread where even Brianna Wu being trans was referred to by one poster as some unverified GG conspiracy theory. Nah, that's just you dodging. I can completely be swayed by evidence. For example, I don't think there's evidence that Wu did or did not go to the police as she said she did. I'm completely ready to believe that they're actually trust-fund kids: it's plausible on the face of it because they live in really high-rent areas while working jobs that can't pay that much. Sarkeesian, however, seems kinda unlikely after a shufti at her bio, because she went to a totally mundane and low-cost public university. However, since you dodged it over and over again, I'm assuming you don't actually have a source. Now you're getting defensive and saying I just wouldn't believe you anyway, but that's pretty transparent. If you actually read my posts, at no point have I given much of a poo poo about what anyone on the aGG side has said, and I don't find their criticisms Very Important--I described Sarkeesian's stuff as 'insipid', for example. Maybe you could ask yourself why you created this strawman version of me that doesn't match reality. I"m 'aGG' in that I find GG deeply stupid for reasons I've explained, but I also think that twitter-bashing GGers is pointless and dumb, and that twitter sucks as a medium for arguing about anything important, so to the extent aGG is a twitter thing I think they're all loving up. But really I'd just like to know your source for your belief that Sarkeesian and the rest come from super-wealthy families.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:05
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I don't think that this Wu thing is the hill anyone wants to die on. I find it entirely feasible* that Wu is, in fact, a dishonest person and did not file that police report. I just think that 1. it doesn't matter in the slightest and 2. it's still wrong to harass her in any form or fashion regardless of what she may have done. I mean, in the absolutely worst case she was attention-seeking. There are countless people who have committed far worse crimes to be angry about. The key point here is that there's no rational reason for GGers to focus so much (and to have focused so much in the past) on people like Zoe Quinn and Brianna Wu. The reason why people are accusing GamerGate of sexism is that there simply isn't any other feasible explanation for why they care so much about these women. The fact that it's invariably women that they've focused so much ire upon just lends further support to this (what men are attacked are not attacked to nearly the same degree). It doesn't matter if Quinn and Wu actually are really unpleasant or dishonest or whatever; it makes no sense for GG to randomly focus so much anger on them. The reason why I can say with almost complete certainty that the several posters in this thread who have posted a bunch of bad stuff about Quinn/Wu (and a significant portion of GG as a whole) are motivated by misogyny is that there simply isn't any other explanation, nor has any other explanation been offered. *though still not proved Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 02:07
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Why would it matter if Brianna Wu was transgender? What the gently caress does that have to do with anything? Again, it'd be nice if people would stop discussing her and Quinn, and Sarkeesian in any other context but addressing her actual arguments within the gaming space. If GamerGate actually is about ethics in games journalism, let's drag it back to that. Biggest problem, ethically: collusion between developers/PR and press is virtually required for timely reviews/event access. An independent gaming media outlet thus needs to either be big enough that it can't be sensibly ignored or focused on long-form criticism/postmortem reviews.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:12
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Ytlaya posted:I don't think that this Wu thing is the hill anyone wants to die on. I find it entirely feasible that Wu is, in fact, a dishonest person and did not file that police report. I just think that 1. it doesn't matter in the slightest and 2. it's still wrong to harass her in any form or fashion regardless of what she may have done. I mean, in the absolutely worst case she was attention-seeking. There are countless people who have committed far worse crimes to be angry about. Agreed. I don't see any positive evidence in either direction. Whether or not you feel unsafe in your home is also a totally subjective thing so even if were adamantly proved that she did flee and did present evidence, people could just say she fled unreasonably and the evidence was weak. quote:The key point here is that there's no rational reason for GGers to focus so much (and to have focused so much in the past) on people like Zoe Quinn and Brianna Wu. The reason why people are accusing GamerGate of sexism is that there simply isn't any other feasible explanation for why they care so much about these women. The fact that it's invariably women that they've focused so much ire upon just lends further support to this (what men are attacked are not attacked to nearly the same degree). It doesn't matter if Quinn and Wu actually are really unpleasant or dishonest or whatever; it makes no sense for GG to randomly focus so much anger on them. Moreover, the focus tends to be on female developers rather than male journalists, which goes against the 'ethics in game journalism' deal.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:13
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Wanderer posted:Again, it'd be nice if people would stop discussing her and Quinn, and Sarkeesian in any other context but addressing her actual arguments within the gaming space. If GamerGate actually is about ethics in games journalism, let's drag it back to Honestly, this is the most damning thing out of all the Gamergate stuff within this thread; it's never an argument against these peoples' points, Tropes vs. Women is apparently a really simple and misguided youtube video doing more harm than its good, but gently caress me if you can get anyone in gamergate, twitter or here, who will actually ARGUE those points, it's all "she did production work when she was 23 for a MLM dude! Scammer! FAAAALSE FLAAAAAG!" The closest we've gotten is a discussion over the Hitman example given in one of the videos, it doesn't disprove the argument that used Hitman among other games, but gently caress, at least it was an actual attempt to swing at the videos instead of her moral character.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40McA9M_2ls
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Jul 10, 2015 02:28
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Ytlaya posted:I mean, in the absolutely worst case she was attention-seeking. If that were a crime there would be plenty of GamerGaters more guilty than she is.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:29
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Ddraig posted:Is this an elaborate way of saying "I've got no evidence"? Well there was that time Brianna Wu tweeted that her parents gave her 200,000 to start a game studio. And the time Johnathan Mcintosh tweeted about the internet on his dads private island not being fast enough to play diablo 3. And also just by generally looking at major anti gamergate peoples twitter pictures to realize that for the most part they aren't doing too shabby. Especially since they are mostly white.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:33
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Denim Dude posted:Well there was that time Brianna Wu tweeted that her parents gave her 200,000 to start a game studio. And the time Johnathan Mcintosh tweeted about the internet on his dads private island not being fast enough to play diablo 3. And also just by generally looking at major anti gamergate peoples twitter pictures to realize that for the most part they aren't doing too shabby. Especially since they are mostly white. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/229845855836979201 it might be a joke, but its from 2012 (long befor GG) so he would have no reason to lie. so who knows, but josh coming from money wouldnt surprise me. who knows. I have more issues with his "critiques" and politics then his personal life.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:37
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Neurolimal posted:You do realize that refusing to debate someone asking you to verify your claims in a forum called Debate and Discussion makes you and your movement look really absurd, right? It's funny because you know this. You were one of the most prolific posters in the first couple GBS threads. Now it's been moved to a forum where people don't know what the hell is going on and you're playing dumb.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/229845855836979201 All the major players have been "doxxed" the fact that he comes from money shouldn't even be a question. You can do background checks on the internet for like 15 bucks.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:39
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Denim Dude posted:Well there was that time Brianna Wu tweeted that her parents gave her 200,000 to start a game studio. And the time Johnathan Mcintosh tweeted about the internet on his dads private island not being fast enough to play diablo 3. And also just by generally looking at major anti gamergate peoples twitter pictures to realize that for the most part they aren't doing too shabby. Especially since they are mostly white. Great! Let's see the tweets. I think that perhaps what happened is that someone took something that's true of one, or two of the people involved, and decided it applied to all of them, but that would be a start. Just so you know, though, living on an island, while it sounds cool, isn't necessarily some rich thing. Totally non-rich people live on islands, too. Hey, I found the tweet! https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/229845855836979201 Notice it doesn't actually say anything about a 'private' island. quote:The median income for a household in the county was $43,491, and the median income for a family was $51,835. Males had a median income of $36,250 versus $26,516 for females. The per capita income for the county was $30,603. About 6.00% of families and 9.20% of the population were below the poverty line, including 12.40% of those under age 18 and 3.10% of those age 65 or over. So you see, both rich and poor people live on islands. Nifty, huh? I can't find any evidence about Wu being given 200K by her parents. That is the number that's listed as what she used to produce an animated short, but it doesn't give a funding source.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:43
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Obdicut posted:Great! Let's see the tweets. I think that perhaps what happened is that someone took something that's true of one, or two of the people involved, and decided it applied to all of them, but that would be a start. Just so you know, though, living on an island, while it sounds cool, isn't necessarily some rich thing. Totally non-rich people live on islands, too. This was before gamergate https://twitter.com/gameragodzilla/status/561695843607011328 As far as McIntosh his pops is rich. I don't know what you can get away with in D&D so I'm not going to even give the guys name.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:52
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Isn't San Juan County owned by the US? So that would make McIntosh Obama's son. The rabbit hole goes deeper than we thought.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:54
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Nah, I admit I got confused about the whole private island thing. I was wrong.
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Jul 10, 2015 02:57
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You've got to be really careful what you say about GamerGate, even as a joke, because chances are good there's some lunatics following all mentions of it who will take a screencap, draw red lines over it, and suddenly the US Government itself is trying to destroy video games because McIntosh's dad owns a private island that is actually owned by the US so McIntosh is the secret child of President Obama who is funneling money into Feminist Frequency to remove video game titties.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:01
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Denim Dude posted:This was before gamergate https://twitter.com/gameragodzilla/status/561695843607011328 What's interesting is that there appear to be multiple versions of pictures of that tweet, but I can't find the actual tweet: Notice how the timestamps are different in the image that you posted, and this one from Ed?  Now, I don't use Twitter much at all--is there some explanation why there'd be two different timestamps for that tweet? You can get away with giving the guy's name in D&D, I don't know why you'd think you couldn't. Do you get why claiming that tweet says 'private island' when it doesn't seems super-shady?
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Jul 10, 2015 03:02
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Denim Dude posted:It's funny because you know this. You were one of the most prolific posters in the first couple GBS threads. Now it's been moved to a forum where people don't know what the hell is going on and you're playing dumb. Not sure why you're trying to drag whatever grudge you have against me into this thread, just pointing out that going "nuh-uh" when someone asks you to back up your assertions doesn't do much to make you or gamergate look good.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:06
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Also, Brianna Wu is the owner of a studio with a decent number of employees. Yes, she's going to be at least slightly wealthy. What does that have to do with anything? The weird wealth-based allegation was that games journalists were wealthy trust-fund kids, not people who are running studios.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:07
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Wu' has some benefactor, obviously, because she sure as poo poo isn't supporting herself through sales of revolution 60, the worst game ever made.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:07
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Dominic White posted:Also, Brianna Wu is the owner of a studio with a decent number of employees. Yes, she's going to be at least slightly wealthy. Oh I got mixed up again because, silly me, I still expect GGers to actually be focused on games journalists, not female indie developers. Whoops! Amethyst posted:Wu' has some benefactor, obviously, because she sure as poo poo isn't supporting herself through sales of revolution 60, the worst game ever made. Yes, people who have studios often have investors in those studios. This is not exactly news. What does this have to do with ethics in journalism again? Or... anything?
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Jul 10, 2015 03:08
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Dominic White posted:Also, Brianna Wu is the owner of a studio with a decent number of employees. Yes, she's going to be at least slightly wealthy. What does the fact that Brianna Wu was born with the shiniest silver spoon in her mouth ever have to do with anything? Brianna Wu, who spends all day every day on twitter lecturing people about their privilege? Absolutely nothing.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:09
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Amethyst posted:Wu' has some benefactor, obviously, because she sure as poo poo isn't supporting herself through sales of revolution 60, the worst game ever made. She's married to a lawyer so it's unlikely she's supporting herself solely with the studio.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:09
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Amethyst posted:Wu' has some benefactor, obviously, because she sure as poo poo isn't supporting herself through sales of revolution 60, the worst game ever made. Broadly well reviewed, according to Metacritic, I gather it sold decently, there's a PC port coming... I'd never heard of it until Gamergate started declaring it the worst game ever made, though. So that's something! Amethyst posted:What does the fact that Brianna Wu was born with the shiniest silver spoon in her mouth ever have to do with anything? Brianna Wu, who spends all day every day on twitter lecturing people about their privilege? Could you fuckers leave the goalposts where they're standing for five minutes, please? Apparently she's gone from being a Dog Killer to Attention Whore to Worst Game Developer Ever to Someone Who Talks About Social Issues and all of these are supposed to be retroactive justifications for a months-long campaign of organized abuse and harassment? Step off.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:10
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Obdicut posted:What's interesting is that there appear to be multiple versions of pictures of that tweet, but I can't find the actual tweet: First part, I assume Twitter post times are sync'd to your local time. Notice how they both end in :14. So someone was in a different timezone? I don't use twitter either. Second part, might be considered doxxing. Not going to chance it even with your say so. Third part, It's been a year of drunk posting and hazy memories. I already admitted that I was wrong. Edit: I just realized my explanation for the timestamps doesn't make sense. All I know is that someone linked it in the first gamergate thread and it was linked directly to the tweet itself. Once it got around it was deleted so all we have are archives. I don't expect you to put your trust in that so go ahead and write that off too I guess. I can't explain it. Denim Dude fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 03:11
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