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While it does evoke a bit of nostalgia to see the BUILD engine resurrected, I don't think this is going to help hairpiece's chances with late Gen-Xers like myself.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:11
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Nessus posted:And so the caste system reproduces itself. If Ivy League colleges were free you'd still mysteriously see most of the seats get filled by rich people's kids (because they're under no obligation to seat everyone).
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Jul 10, 2015 04:16
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The Nastier Nate posted:So you're saying that Clinton set up a private email server because she and her staff wanted to be able to bitch about their boss (the president of the united states) without him potentially seeing it? I'm not sure I believe that, but even if it's true that's a pretty hosed up reason to circumvent what should be an obvious policy. NSA phone taps yeehaw
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Jul 10, 2015 04:18
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TyrantWD posted:It's hardly a ridiculous situation. How many parents have college funds of ~$250k per kid? If your kid gets into a school like Georgetown, most parents will take on the cost. When it comes to getting the most coveted internships, you can bet that the applicants from the most prestigious schools land the bulk of them (which in turn leads to better job prospects, and that basically sets them up for the rest of their life). Georgetown, like most of the prestigious schools you're referring to, is a full-need school, so if you're paying full tuition for your kid to go there, it means you make some real loving money, as O'Malley obviously does. For them to have to borrow what they did just makes it seem like they did not do a very good job of saving money for their kids' college expenses, despite clearly having the means to do so. Additionally, they chose to send their other daughter to a public, out-of-state school (and not an especially prestigious one), and borrow all of that money as well. I don't think the kids of the former governor of Maryland are going to be struggling to make professional connections. I can't fault him for doing what he has to do to help his kids pursue their dreams, but they went about things poorly and it's a bad example of the real problem that he's trying to gesture towards. I work everyday with low-income kids trying to get into college and not get decimated by debt, so I'm happy at the increased attention on the subject, and I'm all about anything that beefs up Pell Grants, which are godsends for most of my students, but yeah, it really is ridiculous.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:20
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GalacticAcid posted:Rubio launches a sick burn. "My opponent Rubio here keeps saying the past. Why not build a time machine to the future stupid!" -Clinton 2015
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Jul 10, 2015 04:24
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And don't forget that at a lot of colleges, public or private, there are tuition tiers designed solely to soak the rich parents of foreign kids for all they're worth.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:25
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Saving money for their kids to go to Georgetown? What the hell? Who has 250K in a savings account? Fault O'Malley for sending his kids to Georgetown, not for not having a ridiculous sum of money in his bank accounts.Nintendo Kid posted:And don't forget that at a lot of colleges, public or private, there are tuition tiers designed solely to soak the rich parents of foreign kids for all they're worth. My school does this to a pretty bad degree. A lot of them get connection with affluent high schools and colleges in China so that their rich parents already have a vector to dump money for their kids.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:26
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Job Truniht posted:Saving money for their kids to go to Georgetown? What the hell? Who has 250K in a savings account? Fault O'Malley for sending his kids to Georgetown, not for not having a ridiculous sum of money in his bank accounts. You realize that poo poo isn't all due up front, right? There are plenty of other ways to tackle the cost of college besides taking out a shitton of Parent Plus Loans for seemingly the entire COA.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:29
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Vox Nihili posted:I'm sure her switch to supporting marriage equality precisely as the national view tipped toward "yes" came from the heart. Getting Roberta Achtenberg through the Senate was a huge deal in 1993. Today rejecting a minor appointee for being gay would be insane, but it was very different back then.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:30
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double negative posted:You realize that poo poo isn't all due up front, right? There are plenty of other ways to tackle the cost of college besides taking out a shitton of Parent Plus Loans for seemingly the entire COA. Many university have half and half payment plans set up. but that is still a ridiculous sum of money to be paying a semester by semester basis divided up.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:33
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Job Truniht posted:Many university have half and half payment plans set up. but that is still a ridiculous sum of money to be paying a semester by semester basis divided up. It sure is, but anyone who is expected to pay that amount at Georgetown almost certainly has the means to make it work without borrowing the amount that O'Malley did, especially if they take advantage of payment plans like you've implied And this is all kind of immaterial because when kids from the families that we should really be concerned about w/r/t to this issue are able to get into schools like Georgetown, they aren't paying very much, if anything. The real issue is for the kids who can't get into these elite schools and don't have any affordable public options, IMO.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:39
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double negative posted:It sure is, but anyone who is expected to pay that amount at Georgetown almost certainly has the means to make it work without borrowing the amount that O'Malley did, especially if they take advantage of payment plans like you've implied One of the biggest issues with college is that only going to a certain college gets you certain connections and those connections grant you access to job pools us plebs don't ever see. Getting to go to the right school where you can make friends with people with the right names and get into the right fraternity does a lot to give you better chances at getting ahead in life. Going to a school that costs $50,000 a year makes it just plain easier to be successful.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:44
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ToxicSlurpee posted:One of the biggest issues with college is that only going to a certain college gets you certain connections and those connections grant you access to job pools us plebs don't ever see. Getting to go to the right school where you can make friends with people with the right names and get into the right fraternity does a lot to give you better chances at getting ahead in life. This is straight up untrue. There are a lot of schools that cost 50k and most of them are complete garbage, even compared to their closest public counterparts. The ones that you're talking about, that give you those real, next-level connections, are full-need. I went to one of those schools and didn't have to pay anything due to my family's income. The only kids that were paying full tuition were rich internationals or kids who went to like Choate or some poo poo, and they already had those connects.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:50
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double negative posted:This is straight up untrue. There are a lot of schools that cost 50k and most of them are complete garbage, even compared to their closest public counterparts. Are all of those schools full need? I knew Harvard was but did they all do that?
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Jul 10, 2015 05:02
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Joementum posted:Trump's Arizona event on Saturday has been moved to the Phoenix Convention Center due to capacity. Depending on the room they use, he can fit between 3,000 - 12,000 people in. I'm so tempted to go. It'll be a total circus.
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Jul 10, 2015 05:12
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Are all of those schools full need? I knew Harvard was but did they all do that? I'm a random prole who got into Vassar and my annual tuition, loans included, was four digits. This was in the middle of the 2008 recession. Generally speaking those kind of schools have the money that if they want someone, they can afford what it takes to get them. Other schools that probably wanted me more as a student couldn't match that level of aid simply because their resources were more limited. If Vassar could do it in the middle of a recession I can only imagine how trivial it is for the real Old Money institutions.
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Jul 10, 2015 05:13
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double negative posted:This is straight up untrue. There are a lot of schools that cost 50k and most of them are complete garbage, even compared to their closest public counterparts. "Full need" can (and usually does) mean "we will happily loan you the full cost of attendance."
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Jul 10, 2015 05:13
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Are all of those schools full need? I knew Harvard was but did they all do that? Pretty much..all the Ivies, all of the elite LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Haverford, etc.) Duke, MIT, Cal Tech, Northwestern, BC, basically the majority of the schools that have national name cache. Here's a list. I went to Brown and it was basically just my books and other expenses along those lines. A lot of the other ones a tier below are pretty good, too. The ones that are lovely with it, or are full-need but not need-blind, like Washington U in St. Louis, are getting called out about the massive discrepancies between their endowment and their population of low-income students and are scrambling to rectify the situation. I could speak on this a lot more, but I don't want to derail too much, especially since I like the core of what he's trying to do is A Good Thing. Kalman posted:"Full need" can (and usually does) mean "we will happily loan you the full cost of attendance." Really? Because in my experience, every student I've had that had a low expected family contribution and went to a full need school had an amazing financial aid package that included little to nothing in loans, and when they did have loans, it was just the subsidized federal loan, sometimes maybe the unsub, but never an amount that even approached the school's sticker price. double negative fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 05:19
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double negative posted:Really? Because in my experience, every student I've had that had a low expected family contribution and went to a full need school had an amazing financial aid package that included little to nothing in loans, and when they did have loans, it was just the subsidized federal loan, sometimes maybe the unsub, but never an amount that even approached the school's sticker price. That must be nice. I definitely did not get quoted "an amazing financial aid package that included little to nothing in loans" by full need schools, nor did my siblings, despite having an EFC far below cost of attendance. So I went in state and my siblings owe a loving ton of money.
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Jul 10, 2015 05:32
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Kalman posted:That must be nice. I definitely did not get quoted "an amazing financial aid package that included little to nothing in loans" by full need schools, nor did my siblings, despite having an EFC far below cost of attendance. So I went in state and my siblings owe a loving ton of money. I dunno your situation but I've worked with dozens of students through this process, and if your siblings owe ton of money then your EFC was probably pretty significant. If a student's EFC is even like a quarter of the cost of a school's attendance, and that student has several siblings, that family makes a shitton of money or has a lot of loving assets. I do wonder which schools you're talking about and what kind of loans they were asked to take out, because the only kind of loan I can think of that a school could possibly offer to cover the full cost of attendance would be a Parent Plus Loan which would not actually be on your siblings' heads.
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Jul 10, 2015 05:45
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double negative posted:I dunno your situation but I've worked with dozens of students through this process, and if your siblings owe ton of money then your EFC was probably pretty significant. If a student's EFC is even like a quarter of the cost of a school's attendance, and that student has several siblings, that family makes a shitton of money or has a lot of loving assets. I did have one classmate at Vassar whose parents were modestly wealthy in terms of assets end up leaving for another school because of an inadequate aid package.
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Jul 10, 2015 05:47
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I bet Hillary cares deeply about crushing student debt.
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Jul 10, 2015 06:00
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double negative posted:I dunno your situation but I've worked with dozens of students through this process, and if your siblings owe ton of money then your EFC was probably pretty significant. If a student's EFC is even like a quarter of the cost of a school's attendance, and that student has several siblings, that family makes a shitton of money or has a lot of loving assets. Northwestern, Penn, and Cornell are all full need schools that offered me or a sibling packages with little to no grant aid. My parents AGI would have been around 85k, so the family EFC would have been on the order of 1/4 of tuition while I was the only kid in school. It was over a decade ago for me, so I have no idea what loan options I/my family was offered at this point, beyond remembering Northwestern offering to help my parents take out a second mortgage.
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Jul 10, 2015 06:10
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I got a ticket to the circus. Gonna be yooj.
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Jul 10, 2015 06:11
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Do they give you fifty bucks for attending?
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Jul 10, 2015 06:22
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pwnyXpress posted:I bet Hillary cares deeply about crushing student debt. *checks donor list* No, probably not  Sanders does though, and honestly has a great chance against the joke candidates the R's got.
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Jul 10, 2015 06:47
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Alter Ego posted:I can dislike her pro-Israel stance, but I'll tolerate it. As for regulating the financial industry, since she hasn't been elected President, all I have to go on is what she's said--and what she's said is almost in line with Bernie Sanders on the subject. What the heck??
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Jul 10, 2015 07:12
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ToxicSlurpee posted:One of the biggest issues with college is that only going to a certain college gets you certain connections and those connections grant you access to job pools us plebs don't ever see. Getting to go to the right school where you can make friends with people with the right names and get into the right fraternity does a lot to give you better chances at getting ahead in life. That's not the issue at all, the problem is that a college degree is required for *any* job that's not minimum wage, and colleges in general cost a ton. Even if that was the true issue, your solution is the equivalent of giving poor people free lottery tickets so they can make it big like real rich people.
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Jul 10, 2015 07:29
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Jul 10, 2015 07:33
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Slate reports on how Fox News has added one small provision to their debate criteria designed to keep Trump out.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:06
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Slate reports on how Fox News has added one small provision to their debate criteria designed to keep Trump out. no you cocksuckers dont do this to me
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Jul 10, 2015 08:08
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donald trump is thick, beautiful, one of a kind.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:15
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:no you cocksuckers dont do this to me While losing him from the debate will be a huge bummer, it will only shore up his anti-establishment credentials. It'll also delegitimize the debate for the red meat crowd, having a guy leading the polls excluded for what to them amounts to an arcane procedural detail. We might get a Trump-organized shadow debate with candidates pressured to join in!
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Jul 10, 2015 08:22
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Jebs going to be president isn't he. Because we just need to work more.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:26
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Antti posted:While losing him from the debate will be a huge bummer, it will only shore up his anti-establishment credentials. It'll also delegitimize the debate for the red meat crowd, having a guy leading the polls excluded for what to them amounts to an arcane procedural detail. We might get a Trump-organized shadow debate with candidates pressured to join in! Yeah after I posted that I thought about it, and the insane drama Trump would whip up if he was denied and the raw pain the Republican Party would go through would be pretty awesome. Not sure it'd be as awesome as him holding court in the debates, but he'll probably wind up in at least one.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:27
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Trump legitimizing a shadow debate by pointing out how they changed the rules just to keep him out could get a boost from those candidates who are also being excluded by the 10-candidate limit, since they'd probably be pretty desperate to legitimize their own campaigns so hyping up an alternative "forum" they're attending would help. Let's see if any go so far as to criticize attempts to exclude Trump as undemocratic, that'd be a sight. I could see Trump gaining in the polls off the back of this announcement since it pretty much makes him definitionally the most anti-establishment candidate of the pack.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:58
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but a lot of what I hear is that you absolutely must make it to the RNC/Fox debate. Is this an actual requirement/rule of the Republican convention as far as picking the nomination, or is it just assumed that you need this in order to be able to win the nomination, which is otherwise still going to go through the primary process?
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Jul 10, 2015 09:04
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Slate reports on how Fox News has added one small provision to their debate criteria designed to keep Trump out. This is the same as excluding him for any other reason. No one who votes is going to look at his lack of disclosure, which he will dismiss as overbearing bureaucratic government nonsense anyway, and think it means that he isn't a real serious candidate. If anything it will make people think that there really is an entrenched political elite keeping him down because he would just be too good for America. The debates would be way less fun, but they're going to be an overpacked clown-filled shitshow even without his insane blustering.
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Jul 10, 2015 09:06
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gradenko_2000 posted:Sorry if this is a stupid question, but a lot of what I hear is that you absolutely must make it to the RNC/Fox debate. Is this an actual requirement/rule of the Republican convention as far as picking the nomination, or is it just assumed that you need this in order to be able to win the nomination, which is otherwise still going to go through the primary process? You don't need to do anything to win the nomination. The RNC can basically pick whoever they want and are not required to have any democracy, but they obviously can not do that because Republicans would be enraged if their party didn't give them any say in who won (that's their job, against minorities). However I wouldn't be surprised if Trump gets a plurality 40% of the popular vote in the primary and they hand it to whoever is the runner up, and there will be a President Hillary.
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Jul 10, 2015 09:11
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gradenko_2000 posted:Sorry if this is a stupid question, but a lot of what I hear is that you absolutely must make it to the RNC/Fox debate. Is this an actual requirement/rule of the Republican convention as far as picking the nomination, or is it just assumed that you need this in order to be able to win the nomination, which is otherwise still going to go through the primary process? I can't imagine there'd be a rule in a primary system that requires participation in debates to be considered for the nomination, heck if things get weird at a convention in theory a "compromise candidate" who hadn't even been running until then could theoretically be put forward. People are just noting that with a field of like 20 candidates and the cutoff for the debate being the top ten polling, if you're not in the top ten and you're missing the biggest opportunity to make gains and get noticed then you're probably finished. Edit: Trump winning a plurality and the convention handing the nomination to someone else would be the high watermark for American democracy.
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Jul 10, 2015 09:12
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