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A.o.D. posted:The Q2 chaingun plus quad damage pickup is the most powerful I've ever felt in a FPS. HL2's overcharged gravity gun came close, but even that was pretty limited compared to nearly instant death you could inflict in SP and MP in Q2 with that weapon combo. Agree 100%  I absolutely love Q2. I love the weapons, the enemies, Q3CTF, Lithium, all the ridiculous player models you could download and generally just everything about it. The music was totally rad, too. Creepy industrial/medieval/ambient from Trent Reznor was fine for Q1, but in Q2 you were a goddamn marine and you needed kickass shredding guitars while mowing down cybernetic monstrosities  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpndTkxFkVY
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Jul 10, 2015 13:19
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Plutonia wads feel less like someone was designing a doom level and more like someone was making a torture chamber for the player. The designers just ratchet the experience up the 11 and keep it there until you finish the level.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:04
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Man, I loved Q23WCTF and Jailbreak back in the day. http://kotaku.com/quake-run-through-googles-deep-dream-1716976381 I desperately want to play a Quake that looks like this. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 14:43
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I have a lot more fun playing Q2DM on Tastyspleen than I do playing Quakeworld. I can see how someone might consider it slower paced compared to doom or quake but it feels more like the maps fault rather than the player speed.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:47
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Douk Douk posted:Instead it feels like this awkward transitioning period between Half-Life's nonlinear realism and Quake's linear surreality. I'm a bit confused by this description, both Half-life games always felt extremely linear to me while Quake 1 seemed to allow for much more exploration and usually required more back and forth within a level in search of keys or secrets in comparison. I would put it under the 'complex, weird late 90s level design' heading, of which the thief games are the king. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 15:09
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A.o.D. posted:Man, I loved Q23WCTF and Jailbreak back in the day. That's loving unsettling and awesome. How traveling through some Lovecraftean dimension SHOULD be.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:20
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A.o.D. posted:Man, I loved Q23WCTF and Jailbreak back in the day. I loved me some Jailbreak and QTF. I'd like to see more games do a jailbreak game type, although it feels like the period of really expirimental FPS is over and now everything's just console style COD with a few preset playlists and no custom server browser or anything.  Also I totally came here to post those trippy quake deep dream pictures  but you beat me to it Its like Van Gogh on acid playing Quake. That Ignorant Sap posted:That's loving unsettling and awesome. How traveling through some Lovecraftean dimension SHOULD be. Yeah I want to see an FPS that really plays with shader effects to gently caress with you. People aren't being nearly creative enough. I'm actually working on a platformer game that uses shader effects to do all kinds of trippy drug poo poo right now (inspired by the yoshi's island level "touch fuzzy get dizzy") maybe I'll try to do the same to a simple FPS next. You guys ever seen this before? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpksyojwqzE The fun part is the level data is still static, its just the rendering that is interpreting everything as a crazy wave. You could apply the same technique to any FPS level with zero modification as long as you could modify the rendering and set certain vertex shaders. I'd love to see Quake with rolling trippy acid effects like that. That's how you really represent some kind of hell-dimension. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 15:47
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You can, in theory, run quake in dosbox svn and apply any of the rendering plugins that come with it on-fly. They're not really that trippy, but some give nice looks.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:24
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If you want trippy use http://www.lewcid.com/lg/download/SIRD/q2/index.html
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Jul 10, 2015 17:29
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Two things I always hated about Quake, despite loving the game, are the sound of the shotgun, and how every weapon was centered. WTF centered weapons are epic!
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Jul 10, 2015 17:47
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Yeah for the Visor HUD I disable the big weapon list, it takes up too much space especially in a mod with extra guns, and the voice warnings get old quick so I keep them off as well. Everything else is around the edges of the screen so at modern resolutions you still have plenty of view in the center of your screen.Alain Post posted:It depends on the specific level you're playing, but basically every Doom mapper these days knows that the SSG is really imporant and the map will be designed accordingly (including maps where you have to do without the SSG for a while if you're pistol starting). Good to know, I'm still playing through Doom 1 WADs so I was specifically talking about the stock Doom II maps. I may need to up the spawn on my SSG guys though, last night I finally cleared map 15 and never saw one  . Man you guys weren't kidding about the City-level maps taking a dive in quality, these big open box type maps suck. Before I always ran out of steam around The Pit, that's the first big spike in difficulty for me. Refueling Base is even worse especially on a pistol start, you really have to venture out into the level while dodging a bunch of poo poo or you'll run out of ammo/health and lose the battle of attrition. Once you actually sack up and do that though it's still pretty fun. O of Destruction was OK.But then The Factory and Downtown look like babby's first Doom map what the hell. Test levels from the Doom 1 alpha were more complex. The Inmost Dens was a bit better but then Industrial Zone is right back to boxes within boxes, and pulls some mapper moves that I really don't like. But now I know where some of the crap I've been seeing in early WADs is coming from. Things like making me go back through a teleporter to go to a completely different place, or hiding necessary keys behind secrets. Sticking the Yellow Key behind that BFG trap is also kinda scrub tier IMO. I know you can jump in the lava pit, grab the Invul and run over to the teleporter to warp straight there and facetank everything, but who does that their first time through? But after getting lost in probably every way possible I finally made it through and booked it out through the secret exit, and even found the secret secret exit due to my vague memories of playing original Wolf back in the day. I was disappointed they didn't recreate secret walls slowly grinding straight back, and that they didn't at least try to reskin something as Hans instead of just dropping a Cyberdemon in there. So tonight I'll pistol start Suburbs, I messed around for a few minutes last night and am still trying to figure out what to do about that Archie right outside the spawn building 
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Jul 10, 2015 17:49
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laserghost posted:You can, in theory, run quake in dosbox svn and apply any of the rendering plugins that come with it on-fly. They're not really that trippy, but some give nice looks. You mean like the ascii renderer? That's cool, but I really need access to the rendering pipeline to do proper trippy stuff. If you can do vertex and pixel shaders though then you're off to the races. SelenicMartian posted:If you want trippy use http://www.lewcid.com/lg/download/SIRD/q2/index.html Okay this is blowing my mind right now. Now if only they could somehow do a magic-eye video 
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Jul 10, 2015 18:23
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khwarezm posted:I'm a bit confused by this description, both Half-life games always felt extremely linear to me while Quake 1 seemed to allow for much more exploration and usually required more back and forth within a level in search of keys or secrets in comparison. I would put it under the 'complex, weird late 90s level design' heading, of which the thief games are the king. Yeah, I gave up on Half Life 1 and 2 because the linearity. I think it was a symptom of level designers going for realism. Quake didn't even bother, and I still find it a far more enjoyable game for it.
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Jul 10, 2015 19:27
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If you haven't tried it yet, rocket jump around Quake 1's SP maps. It really opens them up and makes Q1 a whole new game.
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Jul 10, 2015 19:36
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I still remember when we "discovered" rocket jumping months after Q1 release. No other trick or mobility stuff shocked me and my friends like that. In fact in every new fps we played, we had to do it and sometimes with terrible consequences like a full 8ball rocket jump 
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Jul 10, 2015 20:23
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Guillermus posted:I still remember when we "discovered" rocket jumping months after Q1 release. No other trick or mobility stuff shocked me and my friends like that. In fact in every new fps we played, we had to do it and sometimes with terrible consequences like a full 8ball rocket jump With an Eightball jump, at least one of your limbs reached where you wanted to go. 
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Jul 10, 2015 20:24
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Guillermus posted:I still remember when we "discovered" rocket jumping months after Q1 release. No other trick or mobility stuff shocked me and my friends like that. In fact in every new fps we played, we had to do it and sometimes with terrible consequences like a full 8ball rocket jump Yeah I remember being frustrated with games that didn't let me rocketjump or that did way too much damage when you tried to after I played a bunch of Quake (which wasn't until years after release, for whatever reason. I guess the box art turned me off?) For some reason TF2 rocket jumping never felt right to me and still doesn't. The portal gun is another example of how a gun can just really completely change the mobility of a shooter. Its funny, after Titanfall everybody was talking about mobility in FPS but it just seems like most devs interpreted that as "gamers love jetpacks". So we got a bunch of games with jetpacks. But I'd like to see more games with other weird mobility abilities. Its not an early fps, but have you guys played Splatoon? The way that shooting is divided between both trying to frag your enemies and paint the ground is really cool, and the interaction between painting the ground and mobility is really a game changer. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 21:36
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I want to see an FPS that really plays with shader effects to gently caress with you. People aren't being nearly creative enough. Stopped using it after a while, though, not because I was getting disoriented (I mean, that was a given regardless), but because it was glitching out the mobs something fierce. I was not getting those perfectly-rendered sheep, I was getting sheep covered entirely in the wool texture. Eventually I stumbled upon either a pig or a dog that was also using nothing but the wool texture, causing parts of it to not render at all, and was startled enough that I couldn't continue playing with the mod installed. As much as I wanna see a Quake mod that uses that kind of trippy warping, though, I can't imagine it works well with combat, given the enemies you're aiming at in Trip-Vision are probably severely dislocated from where they actually are in reality. I suppose you could make it so the geometry under the crosshair is always dead-on, but then that kind of ruins the effect of the ground in front of you sloping upward toward infinity. (It'd probably work better for a first-person game centered around melee combat, I guess?) Zaphod42 posted:For some reason TF2 rocket jumping never felt right to me and still doesn't. Zaphod42 posted:Its not an early fps, but have you guys played Splatoon? The way that shooting is divided between both trying to frag your enemies and paint the ground is really cool, and the interaction between painting the ground and mobility is really a game changer.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:41
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Douk Douk posted:Death Wish mod Yeah, I've played all of those except for Chasm. It looks like it's kinda halfway between Quake and Doom? I'd like to try it at some point, what are he chances it'll pop up on GOG? Who owns it? I adore Death Wish of course, such a fantastic mod. Undying is, of course, fantastic as well. I really like Nosferatu, it's one of the few games that captures the feel of classic monster movies, even if it is notably ugly and clunky. And Vivisector is pretty good, kinda like Serious Sam as filtered though Eastern European jank and The Island of Dr. Moreau. SelenicMartian posted:The pre-Wolf3D Catacomb 3-D had a small hub level leading into four levels where you had to collect clues and find the exit from the hub. I've been curious about them too, I kinda figured they were more like proto-Heretic. Doesn't the ECWolf guy have a simple source port in the works? catlord fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 21:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQOJ3yCK8pI
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Jul 10, 2015 21:45
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Shadow Hog posted:As much as I wanna see a Quake mod that uses that kind of trippy warping, though, I can't imagine it works well with combat, given the enemies you're aiming at in Trip-Vision are probably severely dislocated from where they actually are in reality. I suppose you could make it so the geometry under the crosshair is always dead-on, but then that kind of ruins the effect of the ground in front of you sloping upward toward infinity. (It'd probably work better for a first-person game centered around melee combat, I guess?) Well, what you could do is have like a 'sphere of influence' where everything is normal, and then past a certain radius it starts getting more and more and more warped. Then you'd have an effective range for shooting, but anything far off you'd have to either guess where it really was or you'd have to get closer. For doom-style action where you're running around at 400mph sliding up to practically melee people with the SSG, it'd probably work really well. Especially if you went full on doom and had it so that vertical aiming was automatically handled. poo poo, that sounds great actually... Yeah I love that video.
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Jul 10, 2015 22:13
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I remember being frustrated with games that didn't let me rocketjump or that did way too much damage when you tried to after I played a bunch of Quake (which wasn't until years after release, for whatever reason. I guess the box art turned me off?) When it comes to jetpacks, there has yet to be a game that does it better than Tribes. It doesn't really get any more mobile than that… So… mercator + 6 monitors at some ludicrous aspect ratio would be a whole lot of fun, I take it?
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Jul 10, 2015 22:43
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Tippis posted:When it comes to jetpacks, there has yet to be a game that does it better than Tribes. It doesn't really get any more mobile than that… That's a good point, Tribes did mobility really well. Although most shooters had more mobility in general back then, so I guess it was less standout? Now that graphics have gotten less abstract everybody makes shooters so drat slow and plodding. Tippis posted:So… mercator + 6 monitors at some ludicrous aspect ratio would be a whole lot of fun, I take it? I remember way back like early 2000s I heard about somebody rigging up a game of quake where you were running around inside of an american gladiators style hamster ball, with the game projected in a sphere all around you, and you'd run the direction you wanted to go. Dunno if it was real but I feel like I saw a picture of the rig at some point, can't find anything on google right now. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 23:16
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Tippis posted:When it comes to jetpacks, there has yet to be a game that does it better than Tribes. It doesn't really get any more mobile than that… Tribes had the best jetpacks because it was just like strapping a propane canister on your back and flinging yourself around. Also no goddamn fuel needed. catlord posted:Yeah, I've played all of those except for Chasm. It looks like it's kinda halfway between Quake and Doom? I'd like to try it at some point, what are he chances it'll pop up on GOG? Who owns it? There's some people in GOG voting for it to be a game, but it's pretty meager. But yeah, other than those games, I can't particularly think of others that come to mind that are close to Blood. It's greatest quality is also a downfall: There's just nothing else like it in terms of atmosphere, mood, and gameplay.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:34
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Gods, that Quake through Deep Dream would look so great in a FPS as a sort of Going, Going, Gooone insane mechanic. Whats that Timmy? You used the Orb of K'thn The Eater of Dreams one too many times? Now the walls have eyes, and the eyes are melting.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:35
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At the very least, it would be interesting to see rooms or creatures that rendered the Deep Dream effect. The Quake "spawn" monsters seem like a prime candidate for a constantly twisting, transforming monstrosity. Eyes and faces appearing and disappearing, heads bulging out, etc.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:47
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I wrote an article on Doom level design and the importance of layout today.
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Jul 11, 2015 06:25
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catlord posted:I've been curious about them too, I kinda figured they were more like proto-Heretic. Doesn't the ECWolf guy have a simple source port in the works? Ooh I hope this is true! I loved the Catacomb series back in the day, Catacomb Abyss was the first FPS game I played (I was probably 3 or 4 years old, thanks cool gamer dad). I downloaded the shareware last year and played through it in Dosbox and it is remarkably fun even now. It has some really neat art design and cool features like destructible walls, I'll never forget the way the zombies rise up out of the ground and shamble towards you. They're definitely worth checking out, and play kind of like a slower paced Wolf3D with a bigger focus on exploration (and not the "get lost in a maze" type).
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Jul 11, 2015 08:22
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catlord posted:I've been curious about them too, I kinda figured they were more like proto-Heretic. Doesn't the ECWolf guy have a simple source port in the works?
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Jul 11, 2015 08:34
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Just played Quake for the first time, did the first chapter. I have to say, that first boss was very... I don't know, Legend of Zelda. I felt silly running in a circle around this poor big dude who can't hit a moving target
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Jul 11, 2015 10:26
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my bony fealty posted:Ooh I hope this is true! I loved the Catacomb series back in the day, Catacomb Abyss was the first FPS game I played (I was probably 3 or 4 years old, thanks cool gamer dad). I downloaded the shareware last year and played through it in Dosbox and it is remarkably fun even now. It has some really neat art design and cool features like destructible walls, I'll never forget the way the zombies rise up out of the ground and shamble towards you. Catacomb Abyss used to terrify me: I hated (loved) playing in the deep underground, because despite the graphics, I would picture things photo-realistically, and always felt disturbed being down there.
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Jul 11, 2015 11:36
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IronicDongz posted:Just played Quake for the first time, did the first chapter. I have to say, that first boss was very... I don't know, Legend of Zelda. I felt silly running in a circle around this poor big dude who can't hit a moving target yeah it's kinda weird how the lightning yeti things are a more challenging fight than that was
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Jul 11, 2015 11:39
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Thyrork posted:Gods, that Quake through Deep Dream would look so great in a FPS as a sort of Going, Going, Gooone insane mechanic. If there is ever a remake of Quake, I hope they make it as twisted and disturbing as possible, as befitting a descent into the most terrifying depths of eldritch horror. None of that bullshit jump scare "ooh look how scaaaaary this is!" stuff, it needs to be full-on psychologically scarring mind-bending insanity. If the inevitable Oculus Rift version doesn't put at least one person in a mental institution, gibbering about horrors from beyond the stars, the developers will have failed. And of course Trent Reznor should be responsible for all sound effects, but he's much too stable these days. Like when Sunn O))) locked their severely claustrophobic guest singer in a coffin to record the lyrics on the track "Báthory Erzsébet", he needs to get back to his angsty drug-fueled days. Actually, if he did the music in collaboration with Sunn O))), I'm sure they could come up with something suitably terrifying. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jul 11, 2015 |
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Jul 11, 2015 12:38
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It ain't for purists, but I really like the suite of features that the Ultimate Doomvisor adds to Brutal Doom. It kinda completes the picture of playing as a Future Space Soldier guy rather than a Floating Gun Arm. The shoulder-mounted flashlight, multi-mode radar (motion tracker and visual radar are equally useful with their own weaknesses) and target scanner all add up. Plus, I like the interval save thing. Got it set to 4 minutes. Saves me getting pissed off when I flub something in the final seconds of a long map. Another observation: BDv20's revised balance seems to work surprisingly well with Hellbound on UV. Where Hell Knights felt like damage sponges before, BDs balance makes them more along the lines of Heavy Imps, while Barons are much more dangerous in their damage output (that spread-fireball attack is nasty), but, again, killable quicker. I turned off some bits (voice/text notifications, damageable flashlight, etc), but that's what's so neat about it. Very customizable. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jul 11, 2015 |
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Jul 11, 2015 15:43
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y'know, it wouldn't be too hard to take the texture sheets for the Quake enemies and feed them into Deep Dream. you could mostly recreate the effect by doing that. just upscale them and let it have a blast!
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Jul 11, 2015 16:07
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Colon Semicolon posted:y'know, it wouldn't be too hard to take the texture sheets for the Quake enemies and feed them into Deep Dream. you could mostly recreate the effect by doing that. just upscale them and let it have a blast! And then run it through Kingpin's version of the Q2 engine to make everything all wobbly.
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Jul 11, 2015 16:20
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Colon Semicolon posted:y'know, it wouldn't be too hard to take the texture sheets for the Quake enemies and feed them into Deep Dream. you could mostly recreate the effect by doing that. just upscale them and let it have a blast! The best effect would be that the Deep Dream pass would happen in real time, so that you'd see mouths and eyes appearing and disappearing as they swarm across the surface of the various objects/level geometry.
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Jul 11, 2015 16:24
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A.o.D. posted:The best effect would be that the Deep Dream pass would happen in real time, so that you'd see mouths and eyes appearing and disappearing as they swarm across the surface of the various objects/level geometry. I agree, but I also dread to imagine the system requirements. Maybe something could be done with bre-baked shaders
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Jul 11, 2015 16:29
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KozmoNaut posted:And then run it through Kingpin's version of the Q2 engine to make everything all wobbly. Those motherfucking players won't know what loving hit them when those motherfucking Spawns start warping the loving reality around them when they start loving jumping.
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Jul 11, 2015 16:42
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EvilGenius posted:Yeah, I gave up on Half Life 1 and 2 because the linearity. I think it was a symptom of level designers going for realism. Quake didn't even bother, and I still find it a far more enjoyable game for it. My FPS history is Doom 1 -> Quake 2 -> Half-Life -> Unreal Tournament etc. I feel like I have missed out having never played the original Quake or Doom 2, but seeing [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvQYJaAmvc"]Doom 2's Map 9[/url] is kinda scaring me away from Doom 2. . . Just seems like an overuse of moving floors to reveal monsters and constantly crossing over the same area. In Doom (and it's been years since I last played) the levels might not have had a real purpose but they did feel connected and kinda realistic. I honestly cant really comment on the gameplay since the first thing I did when starting Doom was to enter god mode. I loved Quake 2 because of how most of the maps were connected, level 1 ended at an elevator that took you down to the start of level 2 unlike Doom where you flipped a switch and then found yourself teleported to the start of the next level. Of course, Half Life did that as well, but when I was playing Half Life when I was young, I felt that the graphics did not quite live up to the standard of Quake 2, and I think most of that was simply because I was trying to associate low res models with real life items. At the time, I didn't really care for all the story line in Half Life either. I'm not trying to say Half Life was a bad game, just when I first played it I still preferred Quake 2.
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Jul 11, 2015 17:49
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