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revdrkevind posted:And yes I'm sorry I made a typo. I'll go back to my basement where I can have rape fantasies about the women I've obviously never had sex with and/or hate. Getting the particular war wrong isn't the problem with your analogy.
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Jul 10, 2015 20:30
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revdrkevind posted:Statistical analysis of Gamergate tweets proves this wrong. All sides have tried to spin this their own way, but claiming the negative comments are "one third" is outrageous. I didn't say they were their property. Did you read what I wrote? quote:For the record I think the core people behind AVFM- particularly Paul Elam- really are loving awful woman-hating pricks, and I wouldn't waste words supporting the Badgers if I didn't see a clear line of demarcation. What's the clear line of demarcation, given that they share members? Do you know what a 'clear line of demarcation' means? For example, one of the co-hosts of Honey Badgers, Sage Gerard, is the Director of Collegiate Activism for AVFM. quote:Fair point. I meant that in a looser sense, as there have been real-world action taken to have games banned or etc. Yes. So what? Target also doesn't stock hardcore porn. Is this a censorship problem?
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Jul 10, 2015 20:35
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revdrkevind posted:Honey Badgers being kicked out of the Comic-Con: The founder of the Honey Badgers is a comic artist (Xenospora). When she applied to the con it was both to promote her own work, and to have the Honey Badgers attend. She used her xenospora.com email to apply, but applied as the Honey Badgers. Officials would go on to claim the reason they were kicked out was because the Badgers "lied" about being there to promote Xenospora, which is weird, since the invitation and badgers were printed to say "Honey Badgers". As others have noted, there was clear ill will toward this group, and if the Con didn't want them there they shouldn't have approved the invite (or asked that only Xenospora be promoted, not the HB). They did not promote any hate, and the one time they spoke during a panel discussion is freely available online for your review. What forced quotas? What regulation? revdrkevind posted:As pointed out in many places, women make up the bulk of "gamers", they just play different kinds of games. Male games appeal to men (Call of Duty, Halo) while girl games appeal to girls (from Peggle to insert Barbie analog to whatever). If women or trans people or whomever want more representation, they need to vote with their dollars and their work- which is absolutely being supported and encouraged by many independent groups- and not by demanding other people bend to their will. How is this relevant to criticism? Not to bring up the naively liberal "vote with your wallets" thing.
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Jul 10, 2015 20:38
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didnt read any of this thread or anything else the sadbrained regulars in it are saying gamergate is good semper games
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Jul 10, 2015 20:40
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I'm disinclined to trust the scholarly research of "Sargon of Akkad" after seeing his list of videos (who would watch a three-hour-long interview by Steven Crowder?), but to be fair I have not actually tracked down his videos on the specific topic of representation. I'd be excited to see the studies and citations behind the conclusion that representation doesn't matter in media, because that runs pretty contrary to current media analysis theory. If you grant the theory that popular culture is a society's image of itself, then all participants in that society have an equal desire to see themselves represented within it, with negative cognitive/developmental consequences suffered by those who are not. Games are a part of popular culture; thus representation matters in games. (Why is the scholarly retort from GG writers and pundits always adequately summarized by "Shut up, everything's fine the way it is, go home"?) revdrkevind posted:But shouldn't gaming be more diverse? Sure diversity is always nice, but GG largely believes in a market solution rather than a regulative one. This is not entirely vacuous, as GG has promoted charities to get women into game development, so they can make the titles that represent them. As pointed out in many places, women make up the bulk of "gamers", they just play different kinds of games. Male games appeal to men (Call of Duty, Halo) while girl games appeal to girls (from Peggle to insert Barbie analog to whatever). If women or trans people or whomever want more representation, they need to vote with their dollars and their work- which is absolutely being supported and encouraged by many independent groups- and not by demanding other people bend to their will. If you can find a genuine example of someone arguing for a "regulative solution" to the problem of diversity in mainstream games, I'd be genuinely interested in the link. To my knowledge, the discussion is largely over whether the racial, social, sexual, or gender politics of video games are considered valid targets of critical inquiry (that is to say, whether they're valid to bring up in the context of a critical discussion, by anyone, amateur or professional), and if so, how much it matters as a part of the whole. To most people, the answer to the former is "yes, duh," and time is more usefully spent discussing the latter. The GamerGate answer, conversely, as summarized via the mission statement of the aforementioned "Honey Badgers," is this: quote:Once there we will start distributing the totalitarian message that nerd and gamer culture is… perfectly wonderful just as it is and should be left alone to go it’s[sic] own way. ...which raises more questions, really. The first one that comes to my mind is this: is nerd/gamer culture really so insecure about itself that sustained critical analysis of its favored media is enough to endanger it? Is it so fragile that nerds must immediately act to set themselves up as self-appointed gatekeepers over their own areas of obsession, to keep anyone from endangering their purity? Is it truly somehow dangerous when a games developer decides, upon receiving criticism, to adjust the portrayal of female and minority characters in the latter entrants in a series? Or is this just how media loving works and GamerGate should put on its big-boy pants and deal with it like the grown-rear end men they claim to be?
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Jul 10, 2015 20:52
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qnqnx posted:didnt read any of this thread or anything else the sadbrained regulars in it are saying actually..... it's bad
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Jul 10, 2015 21:06
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I wouldn't bother watching Sargon of Akkad's videos. He's the very definition of a pseudo-intellectual, with the added bonus of there not being an insignificant chance of actually being dumber after listening to him. In an effort to give one a fair shake, I think my brain switched off after he literally started talking about Boethius. The guy is Ignatius J. Reilly made flesh.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:19
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Ddraig posted:Boethius Ahahaha, that's a good indicator. Pick a philosopher who's obscure but can still understand. ...Does he mention Zizek? 
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Jul 10, 2015 21:23
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Ddraig posted:I wouldn't bother watching Sargon of Akkad's videos. He's the very definition of a pseudo-intellectual, with the added bonus of there not being an insignificant chance of actually being dumber after listening to him. I'm really trying to attack the argument rather than the source, but yeah, that list of videos is a whole wet mess of somethin', isn't it.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:23
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Ddraig posted:I wouldn't bother watching Sargon of Akkad's videos. He's the very definition of a pseudo-intellectual, with the added bonus of there not being an insignificant chance of actually being dumber after listening to him. I still say that everyone should listen to him debate that one woman and getting so angry he starts lashing out and contradicting himself.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:24
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Ddraig posted:I wouldn't bother watching Sargon of Akkad's videos. He's the very definition of a pseudo-intellectual, with the added bonus of there not being an insignificant chance of actually being dumber after listening to him. "I recommend Batman especially, for he tends to transcend the abysmal society in which he's found himself. His morality is rather rigid, also. I rather respect Batman.”
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Jul 10, 2015 21:24
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You had me at "three-hour-long interview by Steven Crowder."
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Jul 10, 2015 21:29
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Jesus Christ there is such a thing as a three hour interview with Steven Crowder? Aren't there limits to punishment, and to self-abuse? e:b because it's the right thing to focus on
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Jul 10, 2015 21:30
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Steven Crowder's list of accomplishments include getting punched in the face by a union supporter at a rally and uh...um...
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Jul 10, 2015 21:36
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Fabricated posted:Steven Crowder's list of accomplishments include getting punched in the face by a union supporter at a rally and uh...um... …dressing up as a lady and trying to go to the gym?
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Jul 10, 2015 21:39
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Sargon's debate of three hours (don't watch) trying to prove a government conspiracy behind video games and feminism. https://youtu.be/oNAwHrTowO0 The screaming starts at 2:40:00 https://twitter.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/status/516031553634586624?s=09 Fansy fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 22:13
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Fansy posted:Sargon's debate of three hours (don't watch) trying to prove a government conspiracy behind video games and feminism. Ah yes, for those who don't want to wade through this sludge-pile, one of Gamergate's strongest and most-repeated conspiracy theories in their early months was that the feminization of the games industry was, in fact, a sinister plot by DARPA who were working via DiGRA (the Digital Games Research Association), a loose collection of academics studying modern media. Fun fact: if you google DiGRA, one of the very first results is 'How DiGRA Caused the End of Gamers', a video by... Sargon of Akkad! Why US Military research would want less violent videogames is beyond me, but that's how they figured it. University researchers who had previously barely registered on the radar now had countless idiots demanding to see their research in full or else suffer nebulous consequences. Not long later, several universities cut funding for digital media research and archiving projects, and the talking heads of Gamergate celebrated, because they apparently really hate academic types? The whole movement seems to have a hate-boner for people who know things.
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Jul 10, 2015 22:20
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Dominic White posted:Ah yes, for those who don't want to wade through this sludge-pile, one of Gamergate's strongest and most-repeated conspiracy theories in their early months was that the feminization of the games industry was, in fact, a sinister plot by DARPA who were working via DiGRA (the Digital Games Research Association), a loose collection of academics studying modern media. See, if I were a person who was supporting Gamergate, i'd be rather concerned about the fact that this DiGRA obsession heavily resembles the obsession with conservative and libertarian obsession with ACORN, and be concerned that I, as someone who presumably -likes- videogames, supported a movement that might have defunded an academic institution involving games in a positive situation, if it hadn't been completely shamed in its own discussion/JO-chamber by a british lady with pink hair who runs a sci-fi convention (or whatever that is)
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Jul 10, 2015 22:29
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Sunset seems to be a game that people keep bringing up. Part of me wants to try it out because the reviews on metacritic doesn't make it seem like it is that bad of a game. The other part of me doesn't want to pay $20 for it. I guess for GG, it embodies the direction they perceive the industry to be headed in.
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Jul 10, 2015 22:36
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http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/29120/article/ludicrous-gibs-for-the-next-generation-why-violence-in-video-games-is-ok/ some dude wrote an article arguing against the sunset dudes article.
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Jul 10, 2015 22:37
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Fansy posted:Sargon's debate of three hours (don't watch) trying to prove a government conspiracy behind video games and feminism. That's King of Pol screaming mostly I think. But him really trying to defend "the free market" is just confirmation of what I talk about. e: Holy poo poo how do these people function e2: Holy poo poo, Sargon of Akkad is afraid of academics pushing ideology, ahahaha, will somebody purify video games e3: Sargon starts screaming at about 3:05:00, and it's pathetic and short BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 22:39
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Fansy posted:Sargon's debate of three hours (don't watch) trying to prove a government conspiracy behind video games and feminism. Sargon is stupid piece of poo poo. the only remotly interesting stuff he has done were his total war/mount and blade mod history videos. other then that he is just an boring lovely English libertarian who thinks the free market will solve everything. the whole Digra conspiracy is retarded. yeah digra does dumb poo poo, that doesnt make it an "evil goverment conspiracy set to ruin games". Digra just seems like a dumb money sink to me. nothing nefarious there. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 22:41
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blackguy32 posted:Sunset seems to be a game that people keep bringing up. Part of me wants to try it out because the reviews on metacritic doesn't make it seem like it is that bad of a game. The other part of me doesn't want to pay $20 for it. Apparently Sarkeesian talked Sunset up at one point, so its failure and its developers' subsequent mild meltdown are held up as blanket indictments of the non-violent "walking simulator." I'd say there are probably overreactions to be had on both sides. 4,000 copies sold following a successful Kickstarter sounds pretty good to me for an unmarketed indie game about nonviolent exploration and the U.S. Civil War. If anyone was expecting it to hit Gone Home levels of success, they were dreaming out loud. Hell, reading a summary of the game makes it sound like someone made it up as part of an Onion article about the most indie game possible.
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Jul 10, 2015 22:51
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Wanderer posted:Apparently Sarkeesian talked Sunset up at one point, so its failure and its developers' subsequent mild meltdown are held up as blanket indictments of the non-violent "walking simulator." Also, Leigh Alexander was consulted on it and the developer meltdown after it was released. I think the game is more about some civil war in another country. That being said, I don't think the game is as terrible as everyone is making it seem. I mean it is sitting at a 73 on Metacritic which while I guess isn't stellar, it isn't terrible by any means and I think there is plenty of room in the industry for games of this nature
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Jul 10, 2015 22:57
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Fansy posted:Sargon's debate of three hours (don't watch) trying to prove a government conspiracy behind video games and feminism. Actually you should watch it from the point Jeni got on https://youtu.be/oNAwHrTowO0?t=1h29m1s In the course of an hour, he goes from "Gamergate is about ethics in games journalism" to "Gamergate is about feminism and removing its influences from gaming". Also he gets angry when she asks how exactly "feminists infiltrated the gaming industry" because he can't back that statement up, at all.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:08
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Archer666 posted:Actually you should watch it from the point Jeni got on I think it's less that he can't back up that statement, and more that he personally knows the how, and knows that this reason would not garner sympathy for their cause. "Feminists have successfully argued for diverse representation, and developers have been convinced by these arguments" is a worse call to arms than "Feminism has invaded the games industry!!". One sounds reasonable, and makes the reader think "hm, maybe I should read these arguments and decide for myself", while the other makes it sound like The Other is forcefully interrupting the Games Industry's status quo, throwing down their videogames and declaring all men subservient to them, that this must be stopped, or else the Games Industry will continue to suffer at the hands of such a tyrannical ruler.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:11
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blackguy32 posted:That being said, I don't think the game is as terrible as everyone is making it seem. I mean it is sitting at a 73 on Metacritic which while I guess isn't stellar, it isn't terrible by any means and I think there is plenty of room in the industry for games of this nature I haven't played it, so if my previous post made it sound like I was making any qualitative judgment about it whatsoever, I apologize. I didn't mean to do that.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:11
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's King of Pol screaming mostly I think. Man are you just sessioning that?
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Jul 10, 2015 23:18
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Neurolimal posted:I think it's less that he can't back up that statement, and more that he personally knows the how, and knows that this reason would not garner sympathy for their cause. With these kinds of things you always need to check how easy it is to replace the Other with "Jew". e: SedanChair posted:Man are you just sessioning that? Probably a bad idea to do so. But I recommend watching it if you want to really understand what kind of person passes for an intellectual with GG.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:With these kinds of things you always need to check how easy it is to replace the Other with "Jew". You do realize thats the level of argument that Sargon makes, right? He bitches about how if you replace "men" with "jews" in things feminists write, you get nazi stuff. Replacing words in sentences is a dumb way to argue anyway.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:20
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That fucker's videos keep showing up in my recommendations if I so much as glance at an episode of PBS Idea Channel. Even after blocking his channel. Ethics in YouTube recommendation algorithms.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:22
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Archer666 posted:You do realize thats the level of argument that Sargon makes, right? He bitches about how if you replace "men" with "jews" in things feminists write, you get nazi stuff. I've always wanted one of these guys to actually link to the feminists they're reading when they bring that up. It wouldn't terribly surprise me if there was someone out there who decided Andrea Dworkin's problem was that she wasn't angry or violent enough, but I'm curious if she exists or not.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:25
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Probably a bad idea to do so. But I recommend watching it if you want to really understand what kind of person passes for an intellectual with GG. This is not a thing I've ever wondered or been curious about. I mean this is a "group" that latched onto Jack Thompson as an ally, so that says everything I need to know about their intellectual rigor.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:26
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Archer666 posted:You do realize thats the level of argument that Sargon makes, right? He bitches about how if you replace "men" with "jews" in things feminists write, you get nazi stuff. It is relevant because it amounts to a Jewish conspiracy: subhumans infilltrate our pristine society, and time has come for purification. Of course malevolent out-groups exist. They can hurt you. But the real solution is to question the system that produces malevolent out-groups, and try to change that. Otherwise you get the War on Terror, and a couple of years later you've created ISIS. And if you hate SJWs, you actually need to address the system that produces them (Capitalism). Of course GG can't do that, because they are (often vocally) capitalistic free-market types. So trying to suppress malevolent out-groups is their only tactic. e: To be more clear, this trick of replacing words with "Jew" only works for one kind of argument. This is why Sargon's argument doesn't work, because it ends up changing the original argument functionally. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 23:27
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In this thread you have a back and forth of ideas between people, even if it was simulated and people were pretending to be on either side, ideas are thrown around. It's the only place I've seen where this is going on, the rest of the GG "debates" is either insults, or discussions isolated from the opposite side, used to reinforce their own beliefs. I think the pent-up impotent rage from GG is probably related to seeing journalism websites (that hold some sort of power or authority) saying stuff they disagree with, but having no way of arguing back as readers, or just never seeing another journalist moderately challenging the view that they want to challenge. Their rational, skeptical response is to start being misogynistic and racist (in a pure intellectual manner!), venting heir hatred anonymously on the internet, and eventually reinforcing their conspiracy theory every time they get blocked for being poo poo / for planning terrorist attacks. Ddraig posted:They haven't attempted to petition before the SCOTUS, file several frivolous lawsuit and be permanently disbarred from practicing law so I think this may be slightly hyperbolic. What they've done is write an opinion piece. wiregrind fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 23:31
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Admiral Ray posted:This is not a thing I've ever wondered or been curious about. I mean this is a "group" that latched onto Jack Thompson as an ally, so that says everything I need to know about their intellectual rigor. Wait, they did? The guy they all used to post screeds about?
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Jul 10, 2015 23:32
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Archer666 posted:Actually you should watch it from the point Jeni got on This is not an especially good listen for the most part, but has some funny parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bboIk6w0hFA Basically, Jeff Gerstmann of Giant Bomb occasionally live streams his work commute, and takes calls from listeners. A gamergate guy (like, a middle aged dude) called in to complain about feminists and how they took away his favorite cartoons as a child (somehow). I'm pretty sure the guy is crying at a few points. Jeff seems very disappointed. Gerstmann is relevant because he was fired from his job as the editorial director of GameSpot in 2007 for being too ethical. He (very rightly) trashed Kane & Lynch 2 in his review, and Eidos subsequently threatened to pull ads from the site (they had purchased full-poo poo background wrappers ads in the leadup to the game). The new management didn't know how to handle this (pulling ads is an empty threat), so they pressured Gerstmann to change his review to be more "fair" to the game (they had previously had the same conversation about a few other reviews). Shortly after, they fired Gerstmann, and for years denied that it was related to the review or pressure from advertisers. He and some friends from GameSpot left and formed Giant Bomb. Giant Bomb is publicly friends with a lot of indie developers, and is opposes the harassment of developers. Slanderer fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 23:34
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StandardVC10 posted:Wait, they did? The guy they all used to post screeds about? some did. Those two creepy dick heads doing the sarkkisian "documentary" interviewed jack thompson because all three of them are massive conservatives shitheads. Some dumb shits on an 8chan thread tried to push that jack thompson should be called "based dad",but they were apperently told to gently caress off and now no one likes jack again, as it should be.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:38
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StandardVC10 posted:Wait, they did? The guy they all used to post screeds about? Yes, that Jack Thomspon. If you ever needed any more proof that this entire poo poo-show is not actually about video games and how precious they are you need to only know that they have latched onto the man that tried to actually destroy video games in order to stick it to those evil SJWs.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:38
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blackguy32 posted:Also, Leigh Alexander was consulted on it and the developer meltdown after it was released. I think the game is more about some civil war in another country. I never go on Metacritic scores. If you want to pay $20 for a more pretentious, boring Gone Home with an orange color filter over everything, ok. But you'd be better off by buying 'Her Story' which is a better game, a unique concept and is something that is actually engaging. And it is only $5 Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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