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SHISHKABOB posted:His scars were from fighting dragons from the north. He says something like "you're not the only one who knows the threat of dragons" as he flashes the scars. I understand there's a theory that dragons are similar to Balrogs in being Maiar. I just assumed they were a corrupted form of eagles when I was younger, though, but I don't know if Tolkien ever said anything about that.
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Jun 30, 2015 08:16
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Octy posted:I understand there's a theory that dragons are similar to Balrogs in being Maiar. I just assumed they were a corrupted form of eagles when I was younger, though, but I don't know if Tolkien ever said anything about that. Some sort of powerful spirit, definitely.
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Jun 30, 2015 12:41
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Octy posted:I understand there's a theory that dragons are similar to Balrogs in being Maiar. I just assumed they were a corrupted form of eagles when I was younger, though, but I don't know if Tolkien ever said anything about that. This is a cool idea.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:54
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Did Tolkien ever say anything about Melkor/Morgoth's own view of his diminishment? The weakening of his main self to dominate the material world and create the various monsters is always seen as a degrading self mutilation on the narrative level, but its not clear if Melkor actually regrets it or rather sees himself as spending or investing his 'inheritance' rather than simply sitting on a pile of cash.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:24
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As far as I know, Tolkien's commentary on Melkor's "self-awareness" amounts to the fact Morgoth was pragmatic enough to realize how much weaker he had become. He stayed iN Angband and let everyone else fight because he understood how uniquely vulnerable he had made himself when compared to the other Vala.quote:Sauron was "greater", effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Why? Because, though he was far smaller by natural stature, he had not yet fallen so low. Eventually he also squandered his power (of being) in the endeavour to gain control of others. But he was not obliged to expend so much of himself. To gain domination over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth — hence all things that were born on Earth, and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be "stained". Morgoth at the time of the War of the Jewels had become permanently "incarnate"; for this reason he was afraid, and waged the war almost entirely by means of devices, or of subordinates and dominated creatures. Melkor's psychology is one of the best things about The Silmarillion. This has always been one of my favorite passages: "In Angband Morgoth forged himself a great crown of iron, and he called himself King of the World. In token of this he set the Silmarils in his crown. His hands were burned black by the touch of those hallowed jewels, and black they remained ever after; nor was he ever free from the pain of the burning, and the anger of the pain. That crown he never took from his head, though its weight became a deadly weariness." Others might ask "what was the point of all this? He chose to live in perpetual agony because of some gems? And he will never eve remove a crown no matter how much it hurts him?" But that, in essence, is Morgoth. These things might seem foolish and stupid to us, but not to He Who Arises in Might. Morgoth can be summed up as "I will have everything, even if it destroys me." This might be helpful. Morgoth's lust for domination, and then destruction, probably made it so he never truly regretted squandering all that power. It was spent in his mad frenzy to bring all things in this world under his power and, as such, was a price worth paying. Of course, never forget that by the First Age Melkor was entirely mad and insane. He probably didn't have the best opinion of anything, least of all in terms of matters regarding himself. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 21:41
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I always found Tolkien's view of atheism interesting, though it's a bit difficult separating his "in Arda" views from his real life views.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:27
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This makes for an interesting read on the origin of dragons. http://cogitemusaccurate.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/concerning-origin-of-dragons.html
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Jul 4, 2015 09:19
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I might have missed this detail in my read-through, but do Tolkein's elves have pointy ears?
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Jul 10, 2015 20:35
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SirPhoebos posted:I might have missed this detail in my read-through, but do Tolkein's elves have pointy ears? Probably yes: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elven_Characteristics#Pointed_ears quote:I am afraid, if you will need drawings of hobbits in various attitudes, I must leave it in the hands of someone who can draw. ... I picture a fairly human figure ... fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown)." And he didn't mind or say anything when his elves were drawn with pointy ears.
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Jul 10, 2015 20:51
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are there black or asian elves?
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Jul 10, 2015 20:55
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Baloogan posted:are there black or asian elves? yes, they're called orcs
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Jul 10, 2015 20:56
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Baloogan posted:are there black or asian elves? The Silm mentions elves wandering off to all sorts of places and splitting into a wide variety of subgroups, but the east and south of the world are never discussed in any detail in Tolkien's work.
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Jul 10, 2015 22:27
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The Belgian posted:The Silm mentions elves wandering off to all sorts of places and splitting into a wide variety of subgroups, but the east and south of the world are never discussed in any detail in Tolkien's work. Re racial characteristics though, I'm with Hogge Wild.
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Jul 11, 2015 08:58
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On the story level, the reason that the north west of middle earth is where everything important happens is because that's where elf civilization (and elf influenced human civilization) is. The elves who didn't do west either got snapped by and orcified or had to spend the rest of forever lying very, very low. So yeah, what Hogge said. [edit] I'm sure someone once did an interesting analysis of the Silmarillion from the viewpoint that its a human record of what they've been told of Elven history. In this reading we can view the the racial conflict between elves and goblins in a more neutral light. The idea is that the Silmarillion is a syncretic work which tries to square the elves's Valar worshipping polytheism with the Numenorean monotheism/dualism by conflating the the goblin king Morgoth with the satanic Melkor. ZeusJupitar fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jul 11, 2015 |
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Jul 11, 2015 13:18
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Baloogan posted:are there black or asian elves? Yes, they're called the Noldor and the Teleri
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Jul 11, 2015 13:39
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I got a crop question: Hobbits grow potatos,
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Jul 12, 2015 03:49
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SirPhoebos posted:I got a crop question: Tea, tobacco, potatoes, etc are all part of Tolkien's idealized notion of what is "Britishness", despite the fact that they're all adopted crops. Hobbits represent that ideal, so they grow them. I don't think it's more complicated than that. EDIT: There's also a reference to "cold chicken and tomatoes" in an early edition of The Hobbit that Tolkien later changed to "cold chicken and pickles", so it's not like he was unaware of the issue. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 04:15
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I think the implication may be that they originally came from Númenor?
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Jul 12, 2015 04:38
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Isn't Mim the Dwarf pottering around with a sack of potatoes when Turin and his gang first jump him?
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Jul 12, 2015 08:56
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SirPhoebos posted:I got a crop question: Pipeweed was also called westmansweed so it definitely came from Numenor. The Hobbit used to have tomatoes, but they were later changed to pickles. Runcible Cat posted:Isn't Mim the Dwarf pottering around with a sack of potatoes when Turin and his gang first jump him? Yes. Tolkien just liked them I suppose.
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Jul 12, 2015 09:27
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SoggyBobcat posted:I think the implication may be that they originally came from Númenor? Not tea leaves  But yeah, it's an ideal Englishness thing rather than historically accurate.
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Jul 12, 2015 10:24
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I believe that dwarf had a mystery root he did not want to tell the Men about, lest they eat the plant into extinction. Probably wise of him.
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Jul 12, 2015 23:46
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Time for the yearly "Smoking Crow tries to read the Lord of the Rings and probably fails" challenge
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Jul 21, 2015 21:23
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Smoking Crow posted:Time for the yearly "Smoking Crow tries to read the Lord of the Rings and probably fails" challenge Read it combo with the Tolkien professor classes on it.
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Jul 21, 2015 21:25
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Fellowship was the only real hindrance for me. It beat me several times but once I got over that hump, I had a great time for the next two books.
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Jul 21, 2015 22:06
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euphronius posted:Read it combo with the Tolkien professor classes on it. Wait, what are these?
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Jul 21, 2015 22:09
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Smoking Crow posted:Time for the yearly "Smoking Crow tries to read the Lord of the Rings and probably fails" challenge How far do you usually get?
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Jul 21, 2015 23:23
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Data Graham posted:How far do you usually get? Prancing Pony
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Jul 21, 2015 23:25
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SirPhoebos posted:Wait, what are these? https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mythgard-academy/id690277482?mt=2 you are welcome.
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Jul 21, 2015 23:47
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Smoking Crow posted:Prancing Pony Dang son, just skip around and read the bits you like.
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Jul 22, 2015 00:36
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SHISHKABOB posted:Dang son, just skip around and read the bits you like. No I have to read the whole thing
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Jul 22, 2015 00:42
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Book 2, Chapter 2 - The Council of Elrond is one of the best chapters Crow, read at least until you get there.
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Jul 22, 2015 00:49
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The Fellowship is the best book guys.
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Jul 22, 2015 00:59
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euphronius posted:The Fellowship is the best book guys. The parts where Frodo and Sam are journeying before they meet up with anyone else are by far my favourite bits of the books.
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Jul 22, 2015 08:49
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I like Bombadil but far as I'm concerned, Council of Elrond is when the book really begins. Then again, Saruman is my favorite LOTR character.
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Jul 22, 2015 09:04
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euphronius posted:Read it combo with the Tolkien professor classes on it. Is Jordan in the LOTR classes because I hate him and don't want him anywhere near my ears
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Jul 22, 2015 17:01
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Smoking Crow posted:No I have to read the whole thing Or just restart at the Prancing Pony.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:22
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Smoking Crow posted:Is Jordan in the LOTR classes because I hate him and don't want him anywhere near my ears The mythgard ones is just Corey talking.
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Jul 22, 2015 23:39
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concerned mom posted:The parts where Frodo and Sam are journeying before they meet up with anyone else are by far my favourite bits of the books. Its amazing, it just the best. Its the best JRRT writing besides maybe some of his alliterative verse. imho.
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Jul 22, 2015 23:40
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I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and say I like The Bridge of Khazad-Dum and the part where Aragorn leaves Lothlorien for the last time as my favourite sections.
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Jul 22, 2015 23:44
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