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Vox Nihili posted:This is wrong on several accounts. Trump is in no way ideologically pure. His positions are entirely schizophrenic, insofar as he has positions at all. That depends on what you mean by ideology. In recent decades, conservative populism has been kept on a tight leash by a Republican patrician class that is broadly "progressive", in the old sense where it means that they wish to increase business revenue and decrease trade barriers at any cost. Trump is what happens when you let the leash slip. I would say he isn't schizophrenic so much as he is archaic. He's an unearthed artifact of 19th-century conservative ideology. Their donor and operator elites were happy enough to harness such forces in 2010 and 2014, but it's progressing too far for their liking and they're gonna have to figure out how to get matters back in hand. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 09:21
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PupsOfWar posted:In recent decades, conservative populism has been kept on a tight leash by a Republican patrician class that is broadly "progressive", in the old sense where it means that they wish to increase business revenue and decrease trade barriers at any cost.
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Jul 12, 2015 09:25
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JT Jag posted:They loosened the leash themselves when they encouraged the Tea Party in its formative stages. This is the monster they have wrought. Let's just say the GOP has made multiple such deals with the devil over the past 50 years. Racists, Birchers, Racist Catholics, Evangelicals, Teabaggers, etc. The parties have always been beholden to money, but the GOP brought in the types of people they eventually need to wave off because of how marginal they are to American dialogue. Guess what they can't do if they aren't in control of that money spigot.
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Jul 12, 2015 09:31
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FAUXTON posted:Let's just say the GOP has made multiple such deals with the devil over the past 50 years. Racists, Birchers, Racist Catholics, Evangelicals, Teabaggers, etc. The parties have always been beholden to money, but the GOP brought in the types of people they eventually need to wave off because of how marginal they are to American dialogue. Guess what they can't do if they aren't in control of that money spigot. It's a good thing Trump's a businessman, and so his Illegal Immigrant Final Solution includes, so far, making Mexico pay (money) for them... I do wonder how many Dylann Roofs he could inspire, though. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Trump is the unleashed id of America's conservative base. Sanders is America's superego.
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Jul 12, 2015 12:10
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RACHET posted:Both are pissing of their parties and drawing big crowds. Interesting dynamic. Where are people getting this idea that Bernie is pissing off Democrats, beyond claims that the party leaders actually hate the people and want them to suffer? Everything he says only helps Hillary prospects in the general, so unless someone has a story about Debbie Wasserman Schultz trying to threaten Bernie, that sounds a lot like projecting.
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Jul 12, 2015 12:11
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RACHET posted:Both are pissing of their parties and drawing big crowds. Interesting dynamic. I don't think Sanders is doing anything to piss off the DNC. He's being completely respectful of Clinton, saying he likes her, and the ideas he is putting out there are popular with Democrats. He's mostly attacking Republicans in his stump speeches.
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Jul 12, 2015 12:21
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Hillary needs Bernie because otherwise she is running against no one and will have no face time in the media and Trump will be president.
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Jul 12, 2015 12:32
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I think both Bernie and Trump represent a growing movement that has recognized the dysfunctional operation of our nation and the need for a constitutional convention. Lots of people are reluctant about such major reforms to the 'establishment' for many reasons - personal benefits, complacency, cynicism, discomfort, and so on.
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Jul 12, 2015 12:33
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Sanders has gotten pretty good press and light treatment from the Clinton campaign because they don't really see him as a threat yet. I think Clinton will probably just try to co-opt some elements of the progressive stuff and ride out the wave. There's no reason to come out swinging at this stage in the game.
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Jul 12, 2015 12:38
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Steaming pile of poo poo article that tries to make the case that Sanders running is really only helping Clinton.
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Jul 12, 2015 12:55
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McDowell posted:I think both Bernie and Trump represent a growing movement that has recognized the dysfunctional operation of our nation and the need for a constitutional convention. Lots of people are reluctant about such major reforms to the 'establishment' for many reasons - personal benefits, complacency, cynicism, discomfort, and so on. The difference tho, is that the side backing Bernie are simply fed up with the system. Those backing trump, are fed up with the system, while being bat-poo poo crazy and most of them owning guns. God I hate rednecks.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:04
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McDowell posted:I think both Bernie and Trump represent a growing movement that has recognized the dysfunctional operation of our nation and the need for a constitutional convention. Lots of people are reluctant about such major reforms to the 'establishment' for many reasons - personal benefits, complacency, cynicism, discomfort, and so on. Except the 'movement' behind Trump thinks the problem is having the Fourteenth Amendment.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:05
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Alter Ego posted:Jesus Christ, he really is like a retarded Lex Luthor. I would vote for Lex Luthor, just look what he has done for Metropolis over that prissy illegal Superman. 
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Jul 12, 2015 13:09
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Everyone has different ideas - but the point is to hash things out in a convention, or with a package of amendments (for example for public financing of campaigns) - you can do populist things as well like using military resources to secure the border and having a national ID program.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:15
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Klaus88 posted:I would vote for Lex Luthor, just look what he has done for Metropolis over that prissy illegal Superman. 
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Jul 12, 2015 13:17
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Dalael posted:Steaming pile of poo poo article that tries to make the case that Sanders running is really only helping Clinton. It is.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:31
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God that movie is going to suck.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:35
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Remember Luthor is actually smart and a good businessman unlike trump.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:55
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bunnyofdoom posted:Remember Luthor is actually smart and a good businessman unlike trump. Not the Gene Hackman or Kevin Spacey versions.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:58
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bunnyofdoom posted:Remember Luthor is actually smart and a good businessman unlike trump. In the 90s Lex Luthor was elected President, because what's the only thing more evil than being a capitalist? Being a politician. It was kinda cool if I remember right.
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Jul 12, 2015 13:59
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Chapo Guzman escaped from max security prison, wonder if Trump will say anything about that.
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Jul 12, 2015 14:05
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Daniel Bryan posted:A Donald "I beat China all the time" Trump supporter at his rally today: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/donald-trump-storms-phoenix-119989.html?hp=t2_r I didn't find his speech as funny as everyone else did in here, I think. Maybe because just the other day, I was having a beer at my local, and started talking (and laughing) about Trump to my bartender, only to have a guy down the bar pipe up about how "he had some good ideas!" Though this guy was a white guy in his thirties with a yellow polo shirt, backwards black cap, aviator glasses on his forehead, and had spent the last ten minutes yelling into his phone right next to people trying to have a quiet drink about people "TRYING TO RIP HIM OFF". He also got mad at everyone else putting music into the jukebox, until he stomped over, shoved some dollar bills, and yelled about REAL MUSIC as Kid Rock suddenly blasted from the speakers.
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Jul 12, 2015 14:10
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McDowell posted:Everyone has different ideas - but the point is to hash things out in a convention, or with a package of amendments (for example for public financing of campaigns) - you can do populist things as well like using military resources to secure the border and having a national ID program. Any convention is going to end up with a constitutional requirement for balanced budgets.
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Jul 12, 2015 14:13
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Gyges posted:Any convention is going to end up with a constitutional requirement for balanced budgets. God, that would be just the tip of the bullshit iceberg
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Jul 12, 2015 14:27
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Shageletic posted:I didn't find his speech as funny as everyone else did in here, I think. Maybe because just the other day, I was having a beer at my local, and started talking (and laughing) about Trump to my bartender, only to have a guy down the bar pipe up about how "he had some good ideas!" your story only makes Trumps speech more hilarious.
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Jul 12, 2015 14:33
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Trump reminds me a whole bunch of post-campaign wingnut welfare Palin.
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Jul 12, 2015 14:35
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If you educate people about financial policy and have a clear constitutional role for the Federal Reserve you could also see amendments more explicitly defining 'the general welfare'. That would be a good compromise for a balanced budget amendment.
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Jul 12, 2015 14:37
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I don't really see the issue with that NPR article. It's a speculative piece that's based on a solid premise. It's closer to the truth of how things stand currently than stoking a false horse race narrative to provoke interest, at least.
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Jul 12, 2015 14:45
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Carly Fiorina is on ABC This Week right now. Every introduction she gets on TV should include the disclaimer "Carly Fiorina's tenure at HP was a giant failure from which the company has never truly recovered." What The Steph gave us was an offhand mention that she was pushed out in a "boardroom shakeup" and clips of her saying that unlike Hillary, she has "accomplished something." edit: "The liberals are destroying agriculture in California."  TURN OFF THE SUN, OBAMA!
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Jul 12, 2015 15:14
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Does anyone here see anything in the way of a gameplan for Trump? I watched his speech and it was pretty insightful. He mentioned being somewhat surprised by how well his take on border security took off, and now he's just running with it. I don't think any of us here actually believes him to be sincere in running, but it's almost a satire of election year sloganeering in how quick he can rise to the top of an (admittedly weak) just by throwing some big numbers out there and chucking out red meat. I mean, he's clearly running to raise his "celebrity" profile, The Apprentice hasn't been a big show in years to the best of my knowledge, so what happens after he bows out? A consultancy position at Fox? I think he's just throwing whatever out there that he thinks will stick, especially in contrast to his much more liberal run in 2000 I believe it was. Will he really run as an independent? Surely he couldn't have the gall. Right? I mean, I personally believe him to be in it purely to get more twitter followers, but his "the outside world is our enemy! Kick out all the dangerous Mexicans" shtick is pretty dangerous and upsetting. I'm glad the debates are soon. It's just sad to me that a loud mouth bully with no real solutions and deep pockets, who knows all the red meat buttons to press, can do predictably manipulate the Republican base.
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Jul 12, 2015 15:18
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McDowell posted:If you educate people about financial policy and have a clear constitutional role for the Federal Reserve you could also see amendments more explicitly defining 'the general welfare'. That would be a good compromise for a balanced budget amendment. Oh good, so the timeline for the Constitutional Convention is around 60 years and a complete overhaul of our education system from now?
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Jul 12, 2015 15:26
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Gyges posted:Oh good, so the timeline for the Constitutional Convention is around 60 years and a complete overhaul of our education system from now? The Convention would be a big public civics lesson - all the media coverage would actually have to explain how government works before the changes can be understood and voted on.
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Jul 12, 2015 15:34
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TheScott2K posted:Carly Fiorina is on ABC This Week right now. Every introduction she gets on TV should include the disclaimer "Carly Fiorina's tenure at HP was a giant failure from which the company has never truly recovered." What The Steph gave us was an offhand mention that she was pushed out in a "boardroom shakeup" and clips of her saying that unlike Hillary, she has "accomplished something." Hard-hitting poo poo from George "in the tank for Hillary" Stephanopolos
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Jul 12, 2015 15:36
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McDowell posted:The Convention would be a big public civics lesson - all the media coverage would actually have to explain how government works before the changes can be understood and voted on. Since we're talking about pure fantasy, I'd also like for a unicorn delegation to receive voting privileges as well.
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Jul 12, 2015 15:36
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McDowell posted:The Convention would be a big public civics lesson - all the media coverage would actually have to explain how government works before the changes can be understood and voted on. There is a government operating right now, and this information is not reaching the public or the public is not willing to consume it. Why would a convention magically change cable news into PBS? Edit: If anything you'd need this sea change in the media to happen for a convention happen in the first place. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 15:37
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McDowell posted:The Convention would be a big public civics lesson - all the media coverage would actually have to explain how government works before the changes can be understood and voted on. So the timeline for media coverage is an additional 60 years of educational overhaul for Wolf Blitzer?
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Jul 12, 2015 15:39
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McDowell posted:The Convention would be a big public civics lesson - all the media coverage would actually have to explain how government works before the changes can be understood and voted on. Oh, so we're also proposing a razing of the existing media and the building of a whole new media on top of actually educating the public. Perhaps our far off descendants will both craft a marvelous new Constitution, or just the most amazing amendments ever, and send us back pictures of it with their chronophones.
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Jul 12, 2015 15:40
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You just know a constitutional convention would result in a slew of stupid ideas like some prop 13 style limit on how much your income taxes can go up or even worse a nationwide ballot initiative
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Jul 12, 2015 15:41
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Antti posted:There is a government operating right now, and this information is not reaching the public or the public is not willing to consume it. Why would a convention magically change cable news into PBS? You would have the Convention produce a video series by a panel of civic experts - which all the channels would have to air uncut (in addition to being available online) - try to build a fact checking campaign for talking heads from there.
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Jul 12, 2015 15:42
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Trump is going to quit ("suspend his campaign") before a vote takes place and claim he's been "forced out." He wants attention and power without responsibility. Like Sarah Palin. He's going to keep talking in the media and try to keep as many people on his side and staying home during the primaries as possible, then launch a media assault in the run-up to the convention to get a speaking slot and demand he be able to still stand as a candidate. When he's denied this, he'll further show his power by talking down the candidates and keeping people home. He doesn't want to be President. He doesn't even care who really wins. He's just a media addict and this will be the final binge that kills him now that he's burned all his bridges. He's committing suicide.
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Jul 12, 2015 15:42
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