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I just want to know when they're going to add actual flying to the bomb palanquin and ahriman. I think the problem with machinist was that when you look at a list of its abilities, they seem really underwhelming. The highest potency attack is only 200, and that requires either ammo or winning two coin flips. But in practice it's all based around timing buffs directly and then unloading when wildfire is up, and using your turret. Sure their combo is based on RNG, but that's better than bard which doesn't have a combo. You have way more control over your damage output as a machinist than you do as a bard because bards can't force river of blood to proc. Once people started actually leveling machinist instead of just looking at their abilities or trying them at 30 and getting turned off, their reputation changed. They really should have given you wildfire earlier, it's what makes the class come together. E: typos, phone posting, etc Begemot fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 17:54
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Machinist 60, this is a pretty fun and rewarding class imho
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Jul 12, 2015 17:55
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Obligatum VII posted:I think DRK is most of the way there to being a good tank. They've got a niche in "absolutely bonkers emnity generation", though I'm not sure how valuable that is. Msybe if there were some fights that forced emnity management as an issue? Or they got some skills that let them 'spend' emnity to do stuff. I think the idea behind this is to enable you to turn grit off for periods of time, unfortunately it's on the GCD and is required to not loving die in bleeding edge content so it's not realistic.
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Jul 12, 2015 17:56
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Obligatum VII posted:I think DRK is most of the way there to being a good tank. They've got a niche in "absolutely bonkers emnity generation", though I'm not sure how valuable that is. Msybe if there were some fights that forced emnity management as an issue? Or they got some skills that let them 'spend' emnity to do stuff. No healer wants to deal with an evasion tank so it's highly unlikely they'll ever add one.
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Jul 12, 2015 17:57
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Rei_ posted:Machinist 60, this is a pretty fun and rewarding class imho Gauss Barrel looks dopey on some guns, but otherwise, it's fun and cool. The playstyle shift is interesting with GB, but since procs and rapid fire still let you move to your heart's content with instant casts, and you can toggle it off with no cast time, it works really well.
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Jul 12, 2015 18:03
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Eej posted:No healer wants to deal with an evasion tank so it's highly unlikely they'll ever add one. As a healer, I could see it working if they specifically had abilities that let them avoid typical tank busters but instead traded from for every time a hit managed to get through their evasion, it being functionally a mini-tank buster. Basically, trading large damage spikes for smaller but random ones. would it be nerve-wracking? Sure, but I think it would be viable.
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Jul 12, 2015 18:04
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a kitten posted:[Fat Chocobo][Just used it] 
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Jul 12, 2015 18:06
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Obligatum VII posted:I think DRK is most of the way there to being a good tank. They've got a niche in "absolutely bonkers emnity generation", though I'm not sure how valuable that is. Msybe if there were some fights that forced emnity management as an issue? Or they got some skills that let them 'spend' emnity to do stuff. They already "spend" their enmity on "using only weaponskill combos that don't generate bonus enmity so they can have MP to do things"
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Jul 12, 2015 18:08
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nuru posted:And you get to hope for the right token to drop and to win the roll against the other 7 people who also wish they could stop running that floor of Alex for the week. Is it one drop per turn per week?
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Jul 12, 2015 18:28
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Verranicus posted:Is it one drop per turn per week? Yes, but they're floors not turns.
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Jul 12, 2015 18:30
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FaintlyQuaint posted:I don't think DRK is awful, just mediocre. In addition to all that, they just don't serve a functional niche compared to the other two tanks, aside from "best MT DPS" (though by how much?). PLD has good party utility and is still the best defensive tank, Warrior has excellent single target/AoE damage, TP sustainability, and a pretty good coterie of defensive cooldowns now, and DRK has... the -INT debuff? I guess? There just aren't a lot of compelling reasons to take them along versus a different tank.
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Jul 12, 2015 18:32
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As a mediocre and unremarkable PLD, I'm glad DRK didn't make me obsolete. I'll just be over here, poppin cooldowns and not dying.
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Jul 12, 2015 18:53
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I don't understand why people say warriors have good aoe damage. Has anyone actually used overpower or steel cyclone to any remotely useful dps effect in raid content?
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Jul 12, 2015 19:02
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I used it all the time during the add phase of T13. Of course it's not as good as an actual dps class's AOE, but at the time, the only other tank had exactly one (1) damaging AOE ability, and it was on a cooldown. e: that's still true for paladins, but at least now they have a really good DOT that they can apply to multiple targets
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Jul 12, 2015 19:10
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its not raid content but its fun to stance dancing to deliverance for 2 berserked decimates in nevereap/fractial
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Jul 12, 2015 19:15
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yeah Decimate sort of got overshadowed by Fell Cleave but you know what, hitting eight things for 1200 each is a hell of a lot more damage overall than hitting one thing for 7k
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Jul 12, 2015 19:33
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Vermain posted:In addition to all that, they just don't serve a functional niche compared to the other two tanks, aside from "best MT DPS" (though by how much?). PLD has good party utility and is still the best defensive tank, Warrior has excellent single target/AoE damage, TP sustainability, and a pretty good coterie of defensive cooldowns now, and DRK has... the -INT debuff? I guess? There just aren't a lot of compelling reasons to take them along versus a different tank. I haven't had a chance to sit down and parse properly because I haven't gotten a Hive sword yet but personally 180 weapon PLD vs 190 weapon DRK I've experienced about 70-100 DPS difference on Ravana EX and a bigger gap on Alex fights with adds. On the other hand on Paladin I end up using a lot more Halones than Royal Authorities because BLM threat is pretty crazy nowadays.
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Jul 12, 2015 19:47
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I like DRK because it has a big sword and so far it's been okay for endgame stuff. 
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Jul 12, 2015 19:59
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Vermain posted:In addition to all that, they just don't serve a functional niche compared to the other two tanks, aside from "best MT DPS" (though by how much?). PLD has good party utility and is still the best defensive tank, Warrior has excellent single target/AoE damage, TP sustainability, and a pretty good coterie of defensive cooldowns now, and DRK has... the -INT debuff? I guess? There just aren't a lot of compelling reasons to take them along versus a different tank. I've got a big sword. Also Dark Mind is good for the tank buster on alex4 and on a short enough cooldown to be used on every one dreffen fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 20:00
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Speaking of DRK I just completed the level 50 quest. God drat that whole story was fantastic, I went in expecting Greatsword Batman and instead I got to experience my character having a psychotic break.
ActionZero fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 20:01
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Kitfox88 posted:I like DRK because it has a big sword and so far it's been okay for endgame stuff. I like BLM because I make fire. Lots and lots of fire.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:02
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e: wrong thread
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Jul 12, 2015 20:04
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Renegret posted:I like BLM because I make fire. BLM rotations are really hard, the one time i tried it in turn 6 pre-nerf i parsed lower than our tanks. 
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Jul 12, 2015 20:07
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Kitfox88 posted:BLM rotations are really hard, the one time i tried it in turn 6 pre-nerf i parsed lower than our tanks. I never actually did Turn 6, mostly because I just never had a chance to do coil content. The pre-60 rotation is piss easy though. At it's core, you just fire until you can't fire anymore, then use bliz 3, thunder 2, fire 3, then back to fire. You even have a generous amount of time to move around for mechanics before you lose your Astral stacks and have to do weird poo poo to recover. The level 60 rotation is a lot harder. You have less time to move without loving up the rotation and you need to make a lot more snap judgement calls I've only been 60 for a few days and I'm having trouble keeping Enochian up.Fire 4's animation is sweet as hell though so I'm going to keep playing BLM. e: When I first hit 60, I looked up a youtube video of the "optimal" new BLM rotation, and my first thought was basically "hahahahaha I'm not doing that". Sure it parsed high, but no loving way you could actually do that during an actual fight. The timers were too close to actually pull off in any reasonable way in content. Renegret fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 20:15
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ActionZero posted:Speaking of DRK I just completed the level 50 quest. God drat that whole story was fantastic, I went in expecting Greatsword Batman and instead I got to experience my character having a psychotic break. Way back in the thread somebody pointed out that rather than pulling from your EDGY INNER RAGE like a Warrior or some kind of corrupting external influence like a Dragoon, the inner darkness Dark Knights draw on is being super mad about sidequests and wishing you could tell everybody to gently caress off and it's pretty great. The true source of a Dark Knight's power is moogles.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:18
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Kitfox88 posted:BLM rotations are really hard, the one time i tried it in turn 6 pre-nerf i parsed lower than our tanks. Heavensward added a whole second layer of cooldown to worry about, too.  I'm so glad that they're changing Enochian so that recasting it gives you a full 30 if you have the buff on, the original version was so loving punishing for no goddamn reason if you happened to hit it early
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Jul 12, 2015 20:19
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abraham linksys posted:Heavensward added a whole second layer of cooldown to worry about, too. I should probably read the live letter before I keep going on about BLM rotations because I wasn't aware of this change. It sounds like a nice change. It's hard enough keeping track of two individual timers. I feel like Astral Fire lasts just a few seconds too short compared to the cast time of your Fire4 x2 + Fire1. Hell, sometimes I lose Astral Fire if I even hesitate a little on my skills, it's very unforgiving. Then I keep forgetting to use sharpcast so I can get a free astral fire refresh as a Fire 3 and oh god here comes leylines I can't push buttons fast enough and OH JESUS SELENE YOU JUST MADE THINGS WORSE HELP I'VE GONE INTO CRITICAL FIRE OVERDRIVE I CAN'T BUTTON THIS FAST.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:24
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Obligatum VII posted:As a healer, I could see it working if they specifically had abilities that let them avoid typical tank busters but instead traded from for every time a hit managed to get through their evasion, it being functionally a mini-tank buster. Basically, trading large damage spikes for smaller but random ones. would it be nerve-wracking? Sure, but I think it would be viable. WoW did this with Brewmaster tanks using the stagger mechanic. Something like 20% of damage taken went into a stagger bar that basically turned into a dot on the tank, and there are several moves that dump stagger or do other things with it. I would love an agility tank in this game (DNC tank pls) and something like the stagger bar would work great, though as it'd require adding some sort of doohickey to the UI, it probably won't happen until PS3 support is dumped.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:27
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Does anyone know if they added Darklight weapons for the new classes? Wondering what the AST Darklight weapon looks like, if it exists. Edit: Found it, it looks gross. 
Thumbtacks fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 20:31
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Kitfox88 posted:I like DRK because it has a big sword and so far it's been okay for endgame stuff. Yeah this. I feel like DA+Dark Dance isn't really for tank busters it's for mitigating tanking packs of poo poo, like Alex 2. That said there are some kinda weak skills in the toolkit I wish were better. Abyssal Drain just feels like it should do what it says on the DA version as the base spell and remove the DA altogether or have DA do something else. It's not very good. Carve and Spit should keep the mana restore on DA in addition to the damage increase. Dark Passenger... is there ever any reason to use this, with or without DA? The damage is kinda meh and the blind doesn't seem to apply to anything ever. I'm probably just not very good but swapping out of Grit stance during a fight is terrifying to me because every single fight has the OT picking up poo poo with snap-aggro moves and if I forget it or get GCD-locked by it people are just gonna die. It's also pretty expensive for some reason but if you're out of stance you can use blood weapon so your mana SHOULD be ok... Oh, Living Dead having a Cooldown reset if it doesn't actually proc (not a full reset, just maybe half of the actual?) would be nice. I use it when I feel badly threatened but if I get saved at the last second with a benediction/lustrate/essential whatever combo then my CD is totally wasted, and that doesn't feel great. Also it sucks to have to macro a party spam to that skill because healers get no indication at all that it's up, so they heal you to half thinking you're fine when you aren't. Or you just drop dead at the end of the pull, which is only funny a few times. They've said they're looking into LD being harder on healers than the other tank 'oh gently caress' buttons at least. So... yeah. I think DRK is pretty functional but could use some slight tweaks. I've tanked Alex 1-4 and extreme whale now at 170 ilvl and didn't have any real issues with feeling overly squishy, anyway.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:40
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Is there a dragoon rotation for level 50? I'm using Heavy thrust->chaos thrust combo->Phlebotomize-> Full Thrust combo with jumps and other buffs where I can fit them but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:43
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Peakay posted:Is there a dragoon rotation for level 50? I'm using Heavy thrust->chaos thrust combo->Phlebotomize-> Full Thrust combo with jumps and other buffs where I can fit them but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do. No, that's basically the long and short of it. You can optimize the exact best order to use your cooldowns in if you want but so long as you're keeping heavy thrust/disembowel/chaos thrust/phlebotomize active and making use of your oGCDs you're doing fine.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:49
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mistaya posted:Dark Passenger... is there ever any reason to use this, with or without DA? The damage is kinda meh and the blind doesn't seem to apply to anything ever. Dark Passenger without DA gives you more damage per MP spent than DA Soul Eater and is off GCD and also aoe.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:51
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Vermain posted:In addition to all that, they just don't serve a functional niche compared to the other two tanks, aside from "best MT DPS" (though by how much?). PLD has good party utility and is still the best defensive tank, Warrior has excellent single target/AoE damage, TP sustainability, and a pretty good coterie of defensive cooldowns now, and DRK has... the -INT debuff? I guess? There just aren't a lot of compelling reasons to take them along versus a different tank. We're definitely not the best MT DPS. Warrior's that by a long shot, especially since they can trivially stance dance and toss out back-to-back 6k Fell Cleaves.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:59
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Eej posted:Dark Passenger without DA gives you more damage per MP spent than DA Soul Eater and is off GCD and also aoe. This. Unless you've messed up and have no MP you should basically be using it on cooldown.
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Jul 12, 2015 21:02
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kafziel posted:We're definitely not the best MT DPS. Warrior's that by a long shot, especially since they can trivially stance dance and toss out back-to-back 6k Fell Cleaves. You're a brave man to stance dance and blow all your potential Inner Beasts on content you don't have on farm status.
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Jul 12, 2015 21:06
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The new Dragoon rotation is really time-intensive now. I'm always just a second too slow in completing my Blood of the Dragon combos. I guess I need to start min/maxing a bit to improve my skill speed, but the Blood of the Dragon mechanics make every fight a lot more complicated than previously. The rotations were pretty manageable before, certainly--really just two three-button combos, an extra DoT, a damaging buff and some damaging debuffs and stuns. Pretty simple overall, but there was plenty for a Dragoon to do--and gently caress, positionals used to be required for them, which made the class even more challenging to master. Now there's an extra round of combos and skills to keep track of, and the addition of Blood for Blood is now making me use my stunning jump attack a lot more, so I feel like I've got even more stuff to keep track of, and my damage may be lagging as a result. Anyone else had some trouble getting a grip on the new skills? EDIT: gently caress, Blood of the Dragon, not Blood for Blood. Ugh. Stupid Blood...mechanics. Was Bloodborne not enough!? BottledBodhisvata fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 21:44
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Peakay posted:Is there a dragoon rotation for level 50? I'm using Heavy thrust->chaos thrust combo->Phlebotomize-> Full Thrust combo with jumps and other buffs where I can fit them but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do. Your rotation is basically the same except you now have your combo finishers, blood of the dragon, and geirskogul to worry about. You'll basically get in at least two geirskogul while waiting on the BoD cooldown if you do it right. There's a lot of judgement calls and balancing. I usually pop BoD right before my opening chaos thrust, then after that you'll either switch to flank or stay at the rear depending on what the RNG tells you to do. After that throw out a geirskogul, phlebotomize, full thrust, then combo finisher, HT, repeat. There isn't exactly a set time to reapply your dots now either. You just have to kindof watch for when they're going to drop. If you're at the start of a combo and you have 9 or less seconds left on chaos thrust, do a CT combo. If you have more, do a full thrust combo. Only re-up phlebotomize when it's dropped off. Use geirskogul whenever you can if you have enough time to do your combo finisher or BoD is off of cooldown so you can use it. Combo finishers are a big boost to your DPS along with geirskogul. Otherwise it's basically the same.
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Jul 12, 2015 22:00
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BottledBodhisvata posted:The new Dragoon rotation is really time-intensive now. I'm always just a second too slow in completing my Blood for Blood combos. I'm still far from perfect with it, but it just takes time. You just have to keep an eye on your BoD timer and adjust accordingly. Also standing right on the edge of rear/flank on the target circle is pretty much a must when finishing a combo to save your from moving too much to hit the finisher.
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Jul 12, 2015 22:02
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I just got Jin for ninja so now I have the great pleasure of keeping haste up all the time. Should I be using suiton and lightning for the two recasts I get before I need to put haste up again? Or use the doton aoe instead of lightning?
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Jul 12, 2015 22:17
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