|
MrFlibble posted:Ha yeah thats what I was thinking of when writing that. What about JRRT's thing about how the Lord of the Rings isn't an allegory for World War 2?
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
Wittgen, your stance is that people shouldn't have strong emotions. That's um.... nice? What you're reading generally isn't hate- it's disappointment. People saw huge promise in Book 1. Yes, Kvothe was a Mary Sue. Yes, there were characterization flaws in much of the cast. etc etc. But it was his first book, and it was an enjoyable read that was setting up a compelling story. Then book 2 dropped well behind Rothfuss's own admitted schedule. And it dropped like a steaming pile of poo poo onto a parade of excited fans. So now we say horrible, mean things to remind ourselves to temper our expectations. To no longer presume an aggregation of talent between novels. To await proof rather than fail to vindicate our beliefs. Never again will the charlatan moves his ball beneath a cup before our eyes, mesmerizing us, while the pickpocket makes us the fool.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
bartlebyshop posted:What about JRRT's thing about how the Lord of the Rings isn't an allegory for World War 2? The copies I read didn't have anything like that in front of the actual story (or part of the story, like stephen kings dark tower note). Is there a printing with notes at the front? If so then I guess thats not an insult seeing as how the dude actually served in a war.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 17:42
|
|
|
MrFlibble posted:The copies I read didn't have anything like that in front of the actual story (or part of the story, like stephen kings dark tower note). Is there a printing with notes at the front? If so then I guess thats not an insult seeing as how the dude actually served in a war. There's at least one. I guess he was tired of answering letters about whether the Ring is the H-bomb or not.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 17:47
|
|
|
bartlebyshop posted:There's at least one. I guess he was tired of answering letters about whether the Ring is the H-bomb or not. He could have solved that by just not answering the letters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 17:58
|
|
|
MrFlibble posted:The copies I read didn't have anything like that in front of the actual story (or part of the story, like stephen kings dark tower note). Is there a printing with notes at the front? If so then I guess thats not an insult seeing as how the dude actually served in a war. It's the 1966 second edition. It has some rambling, including: quote:The real war does not resemble the legendary war in its process or its conclusion. If it had inspired or directed the development of the legend, then certainly the Ring would have been seized and used against Sauron; he would not have been annihilated but enslaved, and Barad-dûr would not have been destroyed but occupied. Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth. In that conflict both sides would have held hobbits in hatred and contempt: they would not long have survived even as slaves. It's also found in the Kindle 50th anniversary edition.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 18:04
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Wittgen, your stance is that people shouldn't have strong emotions. That's um.... nice? And then Slow Regard came out and people realized that Book 2 wasn't a fluke, book 1 was. I went from NOTW and WMF to the two Stormlight Archives books so the terrible writing of WMF was made even more glaring in hindsight. Give me Kaladin or Shallan at their worst over Kvothe Potter and his Sex Ninja Adventures.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 18:12
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:And then Slow Regard came out and people realized that Book 2 wasn't a fluke, book 1 was. See, I don't think this is fair. NOTW and WMF are not radically different. They have many of the same problems, WMF just intensifies them. Slow Regard is a different thing (and would be recognised as different even without the stupid note). And I tried Stormlight. No matter Rothfuss' faults i've never read a part of his story and thought video game. D&D adventure yes, but not video game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
Video games usually have less inventory management than these books.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
Rurutia posted:So I guess it's not within the realm of possibility that he's grown in the many years since having written most of the books in college and realize the flaws in them that we've noted throughout and is probably rewriting the vast majority of it as a part of his revision process. Well, given that his second book was worse than his first book, I don't think he's going in the right direction. Also, given Long Regard, I think you'd be hard pressed to make an argument that he's improved significantly since then. But then, if you didn't like Long Regard it's because you don't get his art, not because it's lovely art.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
Apparently the company that bought the rights to make a TV series of the Kvothe stories let the option lapse and theres a bidding war by the big names to get a hold of them. If we ever see anything come out of it is another story, but this seems like something relevant to the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 23:23
|
|
|
As interesting as I find the books I just don't think they'd translate well into a show. But who knows, maybe Cinemax will pick it up and make it like a medieval Banshee.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 01:53
|
|
|
Solice Kirsk posted:As interesting as I find the books I just don't think they'd translate well into a show. I agree completely. The stuff that makes the books stand out will not translate well. The aesthetics of the writing, the multilayered meta-storytelling, the way little details match up. These are the things I like about the books, but it's hard to see how that would translate to film. The plot and characters (things I'd assume would translate well) are pretty simple and straightforward.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 09:10
|
|
|
This is a "Game of Thrones was huge, get us one of those!" move. Someone is going to waste a bunch of money of rights and development and nothing will come of it unless it ends up low-budget Terry Goodkind-style.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 10:34
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:This is a "Game of Thrones was huge, get us one of those!" move. Someone is going to waste a bunch of money of rights and development and nothing will come of it unless it ends up low-budget Terry Goodkind-style. Seeker was everything that everyone who read those books ever dreamed it would be. It was possibly the greatest show on TV while it was on. Ayn Rand would have rolled over in her grave if she saw it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 15:10
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Seeker was everything that everyone who read those books ever dreamed it would be. It was possibly the greatest show on TV while it was on. It was a fun little show that didn't take itself too seriously. Unlike the book series.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
Troll Bridgington posted:It was a fun little show that didn't take itself too seriously. Unlike the book series. Exactly. Its greatness came from the agony it must have inflicted on the book's author.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 15:18
|
|
|
Hey guys, should i give the sequel to The Name of the Wind , The Wise Man's Fear, a chance? I found it to be overly long and boring without any real payoff and it just never stuck with me the way other readers seem to feel about it. Not trying to start any arguments, but just trying to get some honest input if I'll find the same type of story. On that note, should I give the sequel a chance considering it's even longer?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:19
|
|
|
esn2500 posted:Hey guys, should i give the sequel to The Name of the Wind , The Wise Man's Fear, a chance? I found it to be overly long and boring without any real payoff and it just never stuck with me the way other readers seem to feel about it. No
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:25
|
|
|
Second opinion: also no.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:29
|
|
|
Sooo more Kvothe & gang not really doing anything significant for the majority of the book?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
esn2500 posted:Sooo more Kvothe & gang not really doing anything significant for the majority of the book? Well, how much do you like fairy and ninja sex?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
Andrast posted:Well, how much do you like fairy and ninja sex? Haha well i do like the sexy time, but I can't imagine this as a big complaint of the book.. or is it?? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Seeker was everything that everyone who read those books ever dreamed it would be. It was possibly the greatest show on TV while it was on. Watching Legend of the Seeker made me consider reading the books but pretty much everyone in the Fiction thread talked me down from that ledge so I've decided to just leave the TV show as my only experience. It didn't dawn on me until an episode or two in that the sword was based on the seeker of Truth books I'd heard about years before. esn2500 posted:Hey guys, should i give the sequel to The Name of the Wind , The Wise Man's Fear, a chance? I found it to be overly long and boring without any real payoff and it just never stuck with me the way other readers seem to feel about it. It's arguably worse than the first book so it's best to just write off Rothfuss and forget he ever existed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
esn2500 posted:Haha well i do like the sexy time, but I can't imagine this as a big complaint of the book.. or is it?? I actually enjoyed the second book more than the first, but like the entire second half drags on. If Rothfuss didn't use incredibly stupid names for absolutely everything I think I would have been able to put up with it more. Sentences like: "I lowered myself into Heart of Stone, then countered Flying Fists with Lily of the Tiger" are used to describe every single thing, from magic, to sex, to fighting. There's some interesting stuff in there, but it seems to get blown over pretty quickly to more mundane boring garbage. I'd say read a synopsis of it and if it sounds interesting then go ahead and read the whole thing. Honestly, there is nothing surprising at all in the book.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 19:53
|
|
|
Solice Kirsk posted:I actually enjoyed the second book more than the first, but like the entire second half drags on. If Rothfuss didn't use incredibly stupid names for absolutely everything I think I would have been able to put up with it more. Sentences like: "I lowered myself into Heart of Stone, then countered Flying Fists with Lily of the Tiger" are used to describe every single thing, from magic, to sex, to fighting. I suppose its a way to break up the "I am poor and took out a loan. I am poor, how will I pay off this loan? I will borrow money to pay off this loan. I paid this loan and now I am broke."
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 20:24
|
|
|
That's what killed me about that second book. Stupid sex goddess and ninjas aside, that was the worst part of the book for me. Book 1 already dealt with Kvothe being in absolute dire straights, we really didn't need so much time dedicated to the same poo poo. It would be like watching Groundhog's Day but instead of cutting to the new stuff, we had to watch the same song and dance every single time reset. If he cut out that stuff he could have actually progressed the narrative. I love world-building as much as the next guy, but he goes overboard with everything. Maybe he should just drop the whole Kvothe storyline and just write an Atlus to that world. I'd be really interested in reading that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 20:24
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Watching Legend of the Seeker made me consider reading the books but pretty much everyone in the Fiction thread talked me down from that ledge so I've decided to just leave the TV show as my only experience. It didn't dawn on me until an episode or two in that the sword was based on the seeker of Truth books I'd heard about years before. I read the Sword of Truth books as a kid, and I actually found them somewhat decent. The author got more weird with every new book, with the heroes spouting off objectivist bullshit and the villains became libertarian caricatures of evil socialists. But as a German, I had never heard of Ayn Rand or Objectivism, so I could just disagree with those parts of the books and move on. Goodkind dialed down with his political messages in the last books, but before that some of the books were basically fantasy Atlas Shrugged. It's a shame, because some of the non-political parts were quite engaging. There is also the unfortunate incidence of violence and rape, to the point where I thought about it once, and came to the conclusion that 95% of all sex depicted in the books were incidents of rape. So even apart from the political theme, the series has huge flaws. If you can look past that, you can probably enjoy it, but you could just as well spend your money on better books. Which brings me to Rothfuss: He is a better author than Terry Goodkind, and the books are better than the Sword of Truth series. I'd say that Wise Man's Fear has better payoff than The Name of the Wind, and that there are more important things happening there. I've also read the reread on tor.com, and discovered a whole new layer of the story that I didn't knew about because I didn't read the books closely enough. Kvothe still reads a bit as a high school fantasy insert for the author, but the books are enjoyable regardless.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 20:28
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:It's arguably worse than the first book so it's best to just write off Rothfuss and forget he ever existed. Solice Kirsk posted:I actually enjoyed the second book more than the first, but like the entire second half drags on. If Rothfuss didn't use incredibly stupid names for absolutely everything I think I would have been able to put up with it more. Sentences like: "I lowered myself into Heart of Stone, then countered Flying Fists with Lily of the Tiger" are used to describe every single thing, from magic, to sex, to fighting. Thanks for the opinions, so yea probably won't be adding this to my reading list. Sounds like the same issues, for me at least, are present. With the exception of ninjas and sex goddesses ofc
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 20:29
|
|
|
esn2500 posted:Thanks for the opinions, so yea probably won't be adding this to my reading list. Sounds like the same issues, for me at least, are present. With the exception of ninjas and sex goddesses ofc Go read Glen Cook, be happy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
the JJ posted:Go read Glen Cook, be happy. The first X Black Company books own bones. RE: Terry Goodkind though- The main problem is that his world building and magic systems are actually really cool. He has some neat monsters and great pacing. His problem has always been his objectivist ramblings, his horrible fetishes, and the consistent rape and degradation of the main characters. Also since we're on the topic, in Goodkind's first book the main villain tricks a boy into loving him, then buries the boy up to his neck in sand, kills him with molten liquid, then eats his balls and ghostrides his soul through the underworld. He does this to demonstrate how evil he is, not because he needs to. He actually could have gotten where he wanted to go faster riding his pet dragon. Goodkind is the black knight to Rothfuss's white knighting.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 21:11
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:RE: Terry Goodkind though- Like the chicken that's not a chicken. That was neat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 21:50
|
|
|
The Supreme Court posted:
This would be fine and actually add to the book if it was used in a sane fashion, like when Kothe just glazes over the trial and is like "yeah poo poo happened whatever" that was fine and helped show that he doesn't actually consider it important even though others might want to know every detail about it since it was hyped up far more than it should've been. Ignoring tons of other things to focus on repeating more Harry Poverty and the Chamber of Stupid just makes him come across as a mediocre writer who has gotten a really lucky break and Stone Door or w/e the third book is called had been be more like the ending of WMF and less faerie and ninja sexcapades self-insert fantasy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:This would be fine and actually add to the book if it was used in a sane fashion, like when Kothe just glazes over the trial and is like "yeah poo poo happened whatever" that was fine and helped show that he doesn't actually consider it important even though others might want to know every detail about it since it was hyped up far more than it should've been. Ignoring tons of other things to focus on repeating more Harry Poverty and the Chamber of Stupid just makes him come across as a mediocre writer who has gotten a really lucky break and Stone Door or w/e the third book is called had been be more like the ending of WMF and less faerie and ninja sexcapades self-insert fantasy. He did get really lucky. He's not a good writer. The whole "oh do you see what I'm doing here? Look at me cleverly subvert convention!" is weak as poo poo. There are more SF/Fantasy books trying to subvert conventions than follow them these days, doing so does not make you clever. The problem is that Rothfuss doesn't have a great reason for most of his subversion. Not giving the reader an exciting tale of adventure at sea isn't doing anything interesting. It actually highlights how little is going on in the story he is writing because you're like "Holy poo poo! Pirates would be 100 times more interesting than the continuing adventures of student loans and 'friendzone'." In the hands of a better writer his "here's how legends and rumors spin out of control" bit could probably be pretty interesting, but he doesn't really have a good understanding of how this stuff works in the real world. No one would believe the poo poo that Kvothe is saying about himself. He'd just be an adult version of that kid in elementary school who has an uncle who "works for Nintendo." RE: Glen Cook I couldn't get into the Black Company. I did the first book and then bowed out. I didn't find anything particularly objectionable; it just didn't grab me. If you like world building stuff, Malazan might be to your tastes. I'm not a massive fan of world-building. but the first two books were interesting enough, even if they didn't blow me away. I'll probably get to the third some day. I'd take Abercrombie or Lynch over either of them though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 09:38
|
|
|
 I actually just finished reading Lies of Locke Lamora, and drat was it good. I didn't like it quite as much as Name of the Wind for a variety of reasons, but I'll be damned if it wouldn't make a way better movie or TV show. It's strongly plot driven and its world would be far more visually spectacular. A quick google search shows that the rights have been snapped up by someone somewhere. I wonder if anything is actually happening there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 10:28
|
|
|
Cook is great at achieving lots with little - compare how fleshed out the world of the little books of BC is compared to Rothfuss' pages and pages of verbal diarrhea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 12:18
|
|
|
Really he should just write books about Rast. Rast did far more interesting poo poo in one novella than Kvothe did in two massive books.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 13:19
|
|
|
Wittgen posted:The aesthetics of the writing What do you mean by this? I only read the first few chapters before I felt like killing myself, but to me his writing "craft" was the worst part of a lovely novel. Long, meandering sentences, said-bookisms out the rear end, adverb excess, trite and cliché descriptions, I could go on and on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 14:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
Martello posted:What do you mean by this? I only read the first few chapters before I felt like killing myself, but to me his writing "craft" was the worst part of a lovely novel. Long, meandering sentences, said-bookisms out the rear end, adverb excess, trite and cliché descriptions, I could go on and on. Have you read much fantasy? Most of it, even most of the popular ones, appear to be written by 15 year-olds so writers like Rothfuss or Pratchett shine easily even if they aren't actually well-written.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 16:00
|
|
