|
Would people say it's better to do big-name cities as game locales that nobody's likely been to or use cities people have been to? Each's strength seems to be a reframed version of the other's weakness; with a big city, nobody will care if the geography's wrong. With a small city, everyone knows where stuff is.
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 18:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
spectralent posted:Would people say it's better to do big-name cities as game locales that nobody's likely been to or use cities people have been to? Each's strength seems to be a reframed version of the other's weakness; with a big city, nobody will care if the geography's wrong. With a small city, everyone knows where stuff is. Or you can pretend it's a new city but really just base it off a city that everyone knows. Or say "like a Hollywood movie version of <x>" or something like that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
Call it whatever big city you like but base all landmarks and locations from google maps searches of Vancouver.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
spectralent posted:Would people say it's better to do big-name cities as game locales that nobody's likely been to or use cities people have been to? Each's strength seems to be a reframed version of the other's weakness; with a big city, nobody will care if the geography's wrong. With a small city, everyone knows where stuff is. I've run a lot of Vampire. Anybody who knows me knows I've run a lot of Vampire. I've also run Mage (always in major cities). I've run cities I've lived in, cities I've never been to, and completely fictional cities (to say nothing of games that weren't even run in cities.) Here's the simple truth: it really doesn't matter. I used to agonize about it too! If I run city I've never been to, will one of my players correct me on the finer details? I have a favorite coffee shop, hot dog vendor and club that I visit in Boston -- so I should use that, right? For the most part you're going to boil a city down into two big piles: evocative themes, and actual locations. The themes are going to be broad and pervasive. The actual locations should serve the needs of your story. In fact, in some ways, knowing about actual places makes you feel the need to obey those things. Is Murphy's Pub in Downtown or on the North End? The answer to that question should say something about the story and if it doesn't, you don't really need to worry about it. When in doubt I say run a city you're familiar with if only because you probably have a better idea of its themes. Never worry about geography, it's really not important. Most cities have a more complex geography than you will ever need for your story.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
unseenlibrarian posted:Call it whatever big city you like but base all landmarks and locations from google maps searches of Vancouver. This is the Katanas & Trenchcoats way. It is a good way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 19:25
|
|
|
unseenlibrarian posted:Call it whatever big city you like but base all landmarks and locations from google maps searches of Vancouver. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
A huge map nerd friend of mine helped me out with designing a city from scratch for a Vampire game I ran, taking a real world small town on the west coast and tweaking the geography enough to let it be a prosperous city in a mountain river valley with mines in the foothills. From there, I studied actual growth of cities and general layouts to a certain degree, and used Damnation City to plot out the districts. It was a fuckton of effort, but I feel like it really paid off, because it let me have basically all the artistic license I wanted while still being able to point to an "actual" map (if abstracted) when they asked where they were and what was up where, and letting them play turf politics in a much more graspable way. A map let them see their piece of poo poo part of town they adopted because nobody cared about it was literally downriver from the primogen's chemical plant that kept dumping poo poo in the water, and that the Lance and Invictus territories bickering too much to notice the Sun-Walking Knights creeping towards their hearts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 20:09
|
|
|
The type of city-map you're running depends on how granular you are with your setting. My rule of thumb is that if you ever care what building is next door to the bar / garage / hospital, its easier to pull a real city street and evolve from there. Most games aren't going to be defined on a block-by-block level, so you can easily get away with using Liberty City or San Andreas as long as your players also played a recent GTA.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
Re-reading some of the current Adamantine Arrow stuff, it seems like the Adamant Way, the core philosophy of the Order gives a lot of leeway of how each member chooses a conflict or way to live so long as they're also physically able to carry out the duties protecting Mage society. Hell, the Third Phalanx right from the wiki gives an example: quote:The Third Phalanx: Adaptability Is Strength - The ideal warrior is a polymath, able to connect the lessons of disparate disciplines into a broad way of looking at the world. When he wrestles with an enemy, his medical studies help him twist and break joints. When he runs a business, he applies military strategy to personnel and resource management. The First Phalanx even homes right in on it, that any conflict can be used to find Supernal truths that empower them in their fight with whatever is thrown against the Pentacle. quote:The First Phalanx: Existence Is War - Conflict defines the cosmos. This is as true for stars and planets as it is for the human soul. Every aspect of existence can be rendered down to a battle between opposing forces. All beings learn wisdom by first separating themselves from the unity of things, and then by separating the unity of what remains. Only by examining what has been broken can a mage understand its original wholeness. If she remained in original bliss, the unity of all things would be felt in much the same way a cell is connected to a greater colony of tissue: Like a machine, without true understanding. Life is more than suffering: It is a continual test of will and creativity. Arrows often use the language of Taoism or pre-Socratic philosophy to define the subtler aspects of the First Phalanx, but none of these belief systems cleave to the metaphor of warfare as much as the order’s doctrine. Martial artists often explain their practices in terms of metaphysical forces, but the Adamantine Arrow explores this from the other direction. Warfare is a lens that clarifies the truths of magic, metaphysics and natural law. Now maybe 2E is trying to get away from those, but I didn't really see any indication of that. Nothing in the sample characters say that just because one is a lawyer they aren't going to throw down with the Seers if he needs to, or that the morally iffy gun-runner won't oppose the Seers in his actions. Both define their conflict in their own ways but cleave to the core of the Arrow by always fighting something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Ocanthus posted:Re-reading some of the current Adamantine Arrow stuff, it seems like the Adamant Way, the core philosophy of the Order gives a lot of leeway of how each member chooses a conflict or way to live so long as they're also physically able to carry out the duties protecting Mage society. Hell, the Third Phalanx right from the wiki gives an example: There is no appeal in the Adamantine Arrow if you must depreciate the definition of conflict to include actions that are completely risk-adverse. Fighting an urge to be a lazy piece of poo poo and jacking off all afternoon is just as serious a conflict as coming into work and doing a good job, if the only thing you are risking is either a temporary setback to your goals or a failure of a temporal value like "upholding the law". And on the tack of the State Prosecutor being a "good" Arrow (irrespective of how riskless his conflict is) the Adamant Way, as I recall the 3rd Phalanx, demands a willingness to sacrifice your comfort and even your life in service to an ideal and to not become stuck into a temporal position where you will have to compromise your deontological ethics. An Arrow that defines themselves as a role in sleeper society is not a good Arrow and is a better forum-argument meme than a lead-off example in a product.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 00:34
|
|
|
Gerund posted:And on the tack of the State Prosecutor being a "good" Arrow (irrespective of how riskless his conflict is) the Adamant Way, as I recall the 3rd Phalanx, demands a willingness to sacrifice your comfort and even your life in service to an ideal and to not become stuck into a temporal position where you will have to compromise your deontological ethics. An Arrow that defines themselves as a role in sleeper society is not a good Arrow and is a better forum-argument meme than a lead-off example in a product. lol sounds like a character with an arc
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
Mexcillent posted:lol sounds like a character with an arc 
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 01:22
|
|
|
Mexcillent posted:lol sounds like a character with an arc The problem is that it doesn't. That character's arc is entirely constructed by us, here, because we actually know what the Adamantine Arrow is supposed to look like. 2E's description is just too ashamed of being about the combat splat to make it clear that the tension we've outlined here exists.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 01:35
|
|
|
Yeah there's nothing about the characters described in the Order writeups that make them bad characters. I don't think they make very good Sample Character writeups because, apart from the heading they're under, there's nothing about them that suggests they're members of the Arrow rather than any other Order. They fit within the Arrow, but there's nothing about them that says to me 'this is the kind of character potential the Adamantine Arrow opens up'.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 01:44
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:In an adversarial system, at least one lawyer must act unjustly, by advocating for a party that is in the wrong to the very best of their ability. Meanwhile, warrior societies are all about what is honorable and what is just, because those are the means to maintain and gain power in such societies. The definition of honor and justice shifts, but in terms of adhering to the abstract notion of justice without any particulars, a samurai who cuts down a defiant peasant acts more justly than a lawyer who defends a guilty party, because the first acts according to his or her personal code of justice and the second does not. Except, combat is also an adversarial system; one in which two parties, each believing the other is wrong, must fight each other, often to the death. In doing so, at least one must be acting unjustly. Otherwise, you have two just causes opposing each other, in which case both are unjust because they are championing opposition to a just cause. Meanwhile, in law, even a lawyer defending a client they know are absolutely guilty can be said to be ensuring due process; that the rights of a citizen are not trampled on, even in the face of absolute guilt. A criminal does not become inhuman just because they committed a crime. If you believe everyone has a right to a fair trial, how can you act unjustly in providing it? Otherwise, you may as well do away with the trial altogether, since you've already decided their guilt. If anything, it takes a sterner and more conscientious soul to defend someone you find objectionable or even outright guilty and uphold the rights you consider sacred for them, than it does someone you find sympathetic. Again, it feels really weird to call combat somehow inherently honourable but the legal system - a system built around at least the idea of providing justice for all - is incapable of it. Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:On the other hand, the American criminal justice system is actually about institutional racism, reinforcing existing power structures, and punitive, retributive destruction of anyone either guilty or incapable of paying for a sufficient defense of their innocence. Nothing in that write-up that says that they're American, but, even assuming they are, what is your point? Wouldn't someone who believes in honour and fairness actually be a boon and work against those problems? Couldn't an Arrow public defender provide an astonishing wall of protection for the innocent? Couldn't an Arrow public prosecutor ensure that the punishment truly fits the crime? Isn't trying to straighten out a broken system and make the world a better place, in the face of entrenched opposition and centuries of historical inertia, exactly the kind of conflict and struggle that Arrows would embrace?
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:06
|
|
|
Map your city in SimCity 2000 and distribute the save to players. If they protest that they don't have a 21 year old DOS game, stare at them uncomprehendingly until they agree to get it off GOG.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:07
|
|
|
Axelgear posted:Except, combat is also an adversarial system; one in which two parties, each believing the other is wrong, must fight each other, often to the death. In doing so, at least one must be acting unjustly. Otherwise, you have two just causes opposing each other, in which case both are unjust because they are championing opposition to a just cause. Almost all of this is circular asked-and-answered stuff that's already been churned to death (and maudlin idealizations of the legal system help no one), but it's worth noting that "States Attorney" doesn't have a possessive because it's short for "United States Attorney." The sample Arrow is, in fact, an American.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
Crion posted:Almost all of this is circular asked-and-answered stuff that's already been churned to death (and maudlin idealizations of the legal system help no one), but it's worth noting that "States Attorney" doesn't have a possessive because it's short for "United States Attorney." The sample Arrow is, in fact, an American. Well to be completely precise it would refer to the "State['s] Attorney". In Virginia, Massachusetts, or Kentucky I would expect them to be called "Commonwealth Attorney" or something. In federal court you'd just call them the US Attorney or the A.U.S.A (assistant US attorney). In some places you have County Attorneys, District Attorney, City Attorney, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:24
|
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Well to be completely precise it would refer to the "State['s] Attorney". In Virginia, Massachusetts, or Kentucky I would expect them to be called "Commonwealth Attorney" or something. In federal court you'd just call them the US Attorney or the A.U.S.A (assistant US attorney). In some places you have County Attorneys, District Attorney, City Attorney, etc. Now see this post? This is what the Adamantine Arrow lawyer looks like. This is what you guys are going to bat for. Ponder that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:25
|
|
|
Attorney at Funk posted:Now see this post? This is what the Adamantine Arrow lawyer looks like. This is what you guys are going to bat for. Actually the conflict of our posting embodies the fundamental chaos of the universe. As I maintain my online "social justice warrior" activity I am in fact a true Adamantine Arrow.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:27
|
|
|
Attorney at Funk posted:Now see this post? This is what the Adamantine Arrow lawyer looks like. This is what you guys are going to bat for. DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Actually the conflict of our posting embodies the fundamental chaos of the universe. As I maintain my online "social justice warrior" activity I am in fact a true Adamantine Arrow. The prosecution rests.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:29
|
|
|
Attorney at Funk posted:Now see this post? This is what the Adamantine Arrow lawyer looks like. This is what you guys are going to bat for. Look, I didn't mean an actual lawyer, I meant a television lawyer-
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:34
|
|
|
What Order is Judge Judy in?
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:50
|
|
|
Down With People posted:What Order is Judge Judy in? If you define her conflict as her against the gridlock on the highway, she makes a great Adamantine Arrow! She can even think about switching lanes with terms usually used in battle formations to make it extra conflicty, which makes her even more Arrow.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 03:59
|
|
|
So, let's put aside the lawyer example to avoid shitposting: is there room in any of your games for any AA character that isn't just a straight up magically empowered vigilante with no room for diversity or interpreting their lens of strength through war/conflict and adaptation in any other way than an extremely literal "apply fist to face" manner at all times? I'm genuinely curious, here. I feel like the two halves of this conversation read entirely different books for the Arrow.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 04:17
|
|
|
Daeren posted:So, let's put aside the lawyer example to avoid shitposting: is there room in any of your games for any AA character that isn't just a straight up magically empowered vigilante with no room for diversity or interpreting their lens of strength through war/conflict and adaptation in any other way than an extremely literal "apply fist to face" manner at all times? I'm genuinely curious, here. I feel like the two halves of this conversation read entirely different books for the Arrow. Yes. I'm happy to have answered your question.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 04:21
|
|
|
Daeren posted:So, let's put aside the lawyer example to avoid shitposting: is there room in any of your games for any AA character that isn't just a straight up magically empowered vigilante with no room for diversity or interpreting their lens of strength through war/conflict and adaptation in any other way than an extremely literal "apply fist to face" manner at all times? I'm genuinely curious, here. I feel like the two halves of this conversation read entirely different books for the Arrow. Bullshit, you aren't being genuine at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 04:30
|
|
|
Daeren posted:So, let's put aside the lawyer example to avoid shitposting: is there room in any of your games for any AA character that isn't just a straight up magically empowered vigilante with no room for diversity or interpreting their lens of strength through war/conflict and adaptation in any other way than an extremely literal "apply fist to face" manner at all times? I'm genuinely curious, here. I feel like the two halves of this conversation read entirely different books for the Arrow. To catalogue the Arrows I've played, played alongside, or observed my group playing: a high school sports star, a construction worker, a small-time hustler, a biker, and a line cook. The only thing all these characters had in common was their ability to take a hit -- a literal, physical hit -- for the Pentacle (or the Diamond, depending on local politics), and then give one back. You can do all kinds of concepts within the Adamantine Arrow, and none of them have to be Daredevil, Batman, or some murderhobo. Frankly, with all the game context stripped away the thing that connects all of them was their willingness to be the first person into their cabal's fights and the last person out. I don't feel like my group's been playing the Arrow wrong. edit: Like, the objection to "my battlefield is the courtroom" isn't that you can't have battles in courtrooms, but that the philosophy and duties of the Arrow mean that there must also be battles outside of it. Crion fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jul 11, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 04:41
|
|
|
Daeren posted:So, let's put aside the lawyer example to avoid shitposting: is there room in any of your games for any AA character that isn't just a straight up magically empowered vigilante with no room for diversity or interpreting their lens of strength through war/conflict and adaptation in any other way than an extremely literal "apply fist to face" manner at all times? I'm genuinely curious, here. I feel like the two halves of this conversation read entirely different books for the Arrow. Yes - one was a Guardian just pretending to be that. Actually, I think at one point in the Chronicle, about half the AA were secret GoV.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2015 04:44
|
|
|
So, essentially, if the WoD core lawyer popped up to fire back at his assailants, that's a valid Arrow, but since Phoenix Wright doesn't kick people's teeth in he'd be a better Thearch or Libertine. Like, Daredevil could be an Arrow. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jul 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 00:04
|
|
|
Daeren posted:So, let's put aside the lawyer example to avoid shitposting: is there room in any of your games for any AA character that isn't just a straight up magically empowered vigilante with no room for diversity or interpreting their lens of strength through war/conflict and adaptation in any other way than an extremely literal "apply fist to face" manner at all times? I'm genuinely curious, here. I feel like the two halves of this conversation read entirely different books for the Arrow. As far as I can tell, people aren't saying that the character would be a bad character to play in an actual game. They're saying he's an exceptionally terrible character to use as a sample character - as a 'this is the Adamantine Arrow' character. They're not advocating that a character like that never appear in anyone's games, they're saying it shouldn't appear in the intro to what the Arrow is supposed to be about.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 12:54
|
|
|
jagadaishio posted:As far as I can tell, people aren't saying that the character would be a bad character to play in an actual game. They're saying he's an exceptionally terrible character to use as a sample character - as a 'this is the Adamantine Arrow' character. They're not advocating that a character like that never appear in anyone's games, they're saying it shouldn't appear in the intro to what the Arrow is supposed to be about. I wouldn't even go that far; I'd just say that the writeups don't do enough to show how those characters fit in the Arrow as an organization rather than as an aesthetic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 15:18
|
|
|
The Guardian's writeup is, well, up: http://theonyxpath.com/a-beautiful-crime-guardians-of-the-veil-mage-the-awakening/ Only first glance it looks pretty good, and they've managed to give the Masque merit a point by making it essentially give you a Cover - the new identity picks up its own distinct virtue, vice, specialties, nimbus and merits as you build it up. Should be pretty powerful. On a similar note I like how Adamant Hand from last time kept the feel of the Arrow as combat wizards without breaking the action economy or creating weird sub-systems like the old one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 11:16
|
|
|
An Arrow lawyer isn't a bad concept but it should be an independent defense attorney scraping by because he keeps taking penniless clients. That's the easy fix.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
So the Guardian writeup is really good, because whoever's responsible for it wasn't quietly ashamed of the role the Order serves within the Pentacle and so didn't spend half their allotted space assuring us that Guardians don't have to be spies, assassins, or cult leaders! What's the mundane profession of each presented sample character? Who cares!
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 04:44
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:So the Guardian writeup is really good, because whoever's responsible for it wasn't quietly ashamed of the role the Order serves within the Pentacle and so didn't spend half their allotted space assuring us that Guardians don't have to be spies, assassins, or cult leaders! What's the mundane profession of each presented sample character? Who cares! I'm beginning to suspect that writing against type when giving an example of a type is a bad idea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 06:02
|
|
|
Decided to set my Werewolf game in the worst most corruption-ridden place I could think of: East St. Louis Now I need to have Ice Cube as a prominent NPC just like this cinematic classic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 14:27
|
|
|
For anyone playing in New Orleans, don't forget that these wierdoes exist: http://www.neworleansvampireassociation.org/
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
Vampires AND other-kin. The Beast crossover is built right in!
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 15:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
DJ Dizzy posted:For anyone playing in New Orleans, don't forget that these wierdoes exist: http://www.neworleansvampireassociation.org/ I'm always surprisingly weirded out that this is still a thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2015 15:52
|
|