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-Troika- posted:The thing to do with the Kawachi is to avoid enemy battleships and instead try to get into slugfests with cruisers, which it utterly ruins. You mean aside from the St Louis, which utterly ruins everything including Kawachis
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Jul 14, 2015 21:05
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So what skills are you guys picking for DDs? Situation Awareness and Torpedo Armament Expertise seem obvious at rows 1 and 2. At 3 I'm thinking the +1 consumables one, and perhaps Last Stand (remain able to maneuver to some degree after losing engine/gears) at row 4?
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Jul 14, 2015 22:05
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Every time I've seen anyone playing that has "Fog_[Ship Type]_[Usually Something German]" as their screenname, they're utter dogshit. What is up with these weeaboo types that clog up games like this? Navy spergs I can understand. The official forums are full of user banners consisting of 10 year old anime girls shooting torpedoes out their asses.
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Jul 14, 2015 22:20
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PirateBob posted:So what skills are you guys picking for DDs? Pretty much, except I take aiming speed at 2 rather than torpedo reload (but will get that on second pass probably). It's probably justified at T8 when the reload times really get ridiculous, but before then it's not like the upgrade is going to save you in a fight because if you're under fire the whole time you're waiting for a reload you'll die with or without the upgrade. Faster aiming guns gives you more chance of killing an enemy DD that is keeping you spotted while you're dodging at the same time, and then once hidden you can escape or line up your next torp run.
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Jul 14, 2015 22:29
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Every time I've seen anyone playing that has "Fog_[Ship Type]_[Usually Something German]" as their screenname, they're utter dogshit. Gonna rename myself to Fog_FishTenement_Bismarck.
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Jul 14, 2015 22:42
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xthetenth posted:Gonna rename myself to Fog_TargetHulk_Bismarck.
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Jul 14, 2015 23:01
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 Get into a tier 9 platoon with a tier 8 carrier? No problem, we'll just match you up against tier 8's! What? You don't want them to have a single tier nine either? No problem! Also, it looks like they're matching up with a Kongo, but there's no extra tier five we can put on your team... ah, whatever! We'll just give you an extra tier six ship to make up for that! The worst part is that we actually won that game. Well, we morally won it: obviously it was a draw, but the only ship left on the enemy team was that Lexington, which we had spotted and was under fire from our battleship and CV. The Iowa pubbies had the nerve to say that they were carrying the game and their team sucked, when they went alone to the other side of the map and got isolated. I wish I had the replay to show. Also, something pretty weird is happening to my Nagato: I have both advanced fire control and secondary battery modification, but my secondaries only open up at 7km, not the nine kilometers I normally hear about. Is it intended to be only seven kilometers or am I doing something wrong?
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Jul 14, 2015 23:18
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xthetenth posted:Gonna rename myself to Fog_LumberYard_GrafZeppelin
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Jul 14, 2015 23:20
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In my experiences the weaker team usually win in those horribly unbalanced matches. The only reason I can think of is that everyone gets way too overconfident and the other team puts extra effort in.xthetenth posted:Gonna rename myself to Fog_Mermaid_Bismarck.
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Jul 14, 2015 23:22
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Fog_FuelAirBomb_Shinano
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Jul 14, 2015 23:22
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OSad posted:
...Where did you hear it should be 9 km? Base range on a Nagato's secondaries is 5 km, and both items only increase it by +20% each. 120% of 5 km is 6 km. 7km, or very slightly more depending on how they stack, is exactly right. Yamato and Izumo have 7 km base, so with both items their max range is over 9 km, if those are what you were thinking of. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 23:25
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Durendal posted:Fog_FuelAirBomb_Shinano Niiiiice. xthetenth posted:Gonna rename myself to Fog_VikingBurial_Bismarck.
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Jul 14, 2015 23:28
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Aesis posted:Main reason why I had Situation Awareness for North Carolina commander back in CBT. Something spotted you but no enemy around? 99% chance a destroyer is closing in for torp pooping. Still can't tell when the drat torp is launched so you get 5 seconds to minimize damage, or keep zig zagging until you hopefully see torpedo passing you. A while back, maybe 2 months or so before open beta, some guy on my team was being torpedoed to death by 2 minekaze. They would stay near the max range of their torpedoes and he could not spot them at all. Guy kept bitching about hacking and whatnot. Once he died, they did the same to me in my fuso. I can confirm that it was really frustrating. All I'd see were torpedoes streaming towards me non stop. Never once spotted them.
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Jul 14, 2015 23:33
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Did that with my Fubuki and a friendly Kagero to three enemy BBs in a match on North during CBT in which our entire team went on a grand lemming train alongside the east edge of the map. Last one of the battleships died in our cap and was bitching up a shitstorm because he didn't get to fire his guns once for the entire match. That whole thing about just 1km gap however is kind of a ridiculous idea because you'd end up with high-tier IJN DDs having longer detection distance than battleships. Also, anyone who's actually worth something with long-range topedos will drop them from just without detection distance anyway simply so they take less time to get to the target. The extra range comes in handy in these cases for shots at targets steaming away or for crazy lottery win hits when a torp misses his intended target and then nukes another poor SOB five klicks later. Magni fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 23:38
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It will spread the torps enough that you'd only get hit by 1 instead of 2-3 even if you travel straight. Wanna torp closer? Use terrain or smoke. It also lets battleship players less dependent on team to spot DD or die helplessly.
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Jul 15, 2015 00:07
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Or you could just not sail in a straight line all the time. Or you could, you know, use actual teamwork and work with friendly destroyers (the enemy DDs can't avoid them to stay hidden because they can't see them), cruisers (staying on the edge of spotting range risks running into a scout plane), or get your carrier to send a fighter squadron across for a bit (only needs to spot them once to stick to them). It is entirely expected that if you sail away by yourself in a battleship or just as a group of BBs you will get hosed by destroyers, and any battleship that does that deserves it because it inevitably leads to all of their team's cruisers trying to fight battleships at objectives and getting blown out of the water.
Scikar fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 00:14
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Playing a Destroyer is a lot like playing a fun stealth game. You want to plot a course around all the brawling cruisers (who have rapid fire guns that will gently caress you) and Destroyers (who are your natural enemy, being scouts) to find the juicy BBs and CVs hiding at the back and crack them open for their sweet, sweet EXP filling.
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Jul 15, 2015 00:17
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PirateBob posted:So what skills are you guys picking for DDs?  about Destroyers and Captain skills.Rank 1 Skills: Situation Awareness is your priority, more so for US DDs than on IJN DDs, as your concealment at later tiers is lesser than that of IJN DDs, and knowing when you are concealed after firing is incredibly useful for setting up ambushes and avoiding enemy DDs in a dangerous area. Basically Required for all DD commanders. Basic Firing Training is a good extra pickup if you are in a US DD, as it will make you start making GBS threads shells at an unbearable pace, and you rely on your guns more than your torps. You can take this at your 3rd level, or wait until level 16 to pick it up. Recommended. Expert Loader is bad, even on BBs. Do not take. Basics of Survivability is not a good choice. Fire damage is pretty small to a DD and your repair comes up frequently enough that it shouldn't be an issue. If you're flooding with no repair, you're probably dead too, considering the damage of torpedoes. Do not take. I shouldn't have to bring up Expert Rear Gunner. Rank 2 Skills: Aiming Expert is a good skill. On IJN DDs, it makes your turret rotation speed less of an issue. IJN DDs tend to outrun their turrets when pulling maneuvers, this skill will lessen that pain. On US DDs, you are primarily fighting with your guns, so being able to bring them to bear faster means you can shoot and kill faster. In a DD, this could be the difference between life and death. Good on IJN DDs, highly recommended on US DDs. Torpedo Armament Expertise is another very good skill, and your other major choice here. Faster reloading torpedoes means your ace card is up more often. On IJN DDs, this is crucial, especially once you get past the Minekaze and into the glacial reload times of the Mutsuki and beyond. US DDs typically cannot use their torpedoes as a primary armament, so their reload time is less of an issue, unless you somehow miss your salvo on a close range BB and need to make another pass. But that is user error, taking a skill because you're bad at point blank torpedoing isn't a great idea. Good on T2-T5 IJN DDs, Required on T6+ IJN DDs, highly recommended on US DDs, but not over Aiming Expert. Fire Prevention is not a good skill for destroyers, and a questionable choice even for other ships. You don't take enough damage from fires to justify the pickup, as you have much worse things to worry about, like the actual HE damage being applied to you. Do not take. Incoming Fire Alert is... a weird skill. As opposed to Situation Awareness, this is something you should be able to figure out on your own. Assume that if you are spotted, you are being shot at. Congrats, you don't need this skill. Do not take. Rank 3 Skills: Superintendent is a very good skill. DDs have 2 consumables that have ammo, and both the Smoke Generator and Engine Boost have 2 charges. This skill bumps that up to 3. If you aren't going to take Vigilance, take this instead. Highly Recommended if you are a lone wolf, or if you find more smoke and more boosts is better than Vigilance. Vigilance is a good skill. People seem to vastly underestimate the usefulness of detecting torpedoes early. This is purely a defensive skill, and the situations where this skill will save you are not terribly high. DDs tend to not get torpedoed much, if ever (and if you do, you might need to practice dodging torpedoes more). However, as you are a DD and are tasked with scouting and escorting the fleet, this skill can save the life of your division friends, or just a random BB who you were leading across the map. Being able to spot hostile torpedoes sooner saves you from making a bad maneuver and getting trapped in a bad location, and can save your teammate's lives. Recommended, especially if you division a lot. High Alert is a good skill... but perhaps not an a DD. This cuts your Damage Control to a 36ish second cooldown. Not bad, but is it worth 3 points? No. Not recommended, unless you REALLY think its a good idea. Take this on bigger ships with longer DC cooldowns. Lol, Dogfighting Expert. Rank 4 Skills: Demolition Expert is decent. More fires, what's not to like? DDs have a low chance to set things on fire, this makes that less of a problem. Recommended if you value setting things ablaze over more range or better survivability. Advanced Firing Training is a very good skill. +20% range to your primary armament, and more range on your AA as well, even though its pretty anemic at every tier. US DD's will absolutely love the bonus range. Highly Recommended if you are a US DD, and if you prefer range over HE fire damage or survivability. If you are an IJN DD... still recommended, but the next skill is probably a lot better. Last Stand is a GODLIKE skill. I have to talk up the previous 2, because some people will still want to take them, but this is THE DD skill to have. DDs have no armor, hence HE will pen and critically damage everything you have pretty often. If your rudder is damaged, you cannot turn. If your Engine is damaged, your speed drops to a crawl. Both things can spell the end of a DD if you cannot repair the damage. Last Stand makes these problems... nonexistent. With Last Stand, rudder damage only means your rudder will shift just a tiny bit slower. You can manuever still! With Engine damage, your speed drops to about 3/4ths of full! No longer is rudder or engine damage a death sentence! Please take this skill on your DDs, it is amazing and you will not regret it. Aircraft Servicing Expert... hahahaha Rank 5 Skills: Concealment Expert. Its why you're at Rank 5, duh. -10% detection is phenomenally good. Stack this poo poo with camo and the Concealment mod at T8+, and you'll have the same concealment as lower tiered ships. Its great. This is basically your only choice at Rank 5. Last Chance is a great paper skill, but in practice if you are that low, you are already dead. 20% HP on a DD is straddling 3K HP or less. A cough from a Cleveland will send you to the bottom, so why are you even shooting your drat guns? They probably got penned by HE at this point. Take the concealment skill and don't get detected in the first place! This skill does increase reload of torpedoes, however. But a 9% reload speed for losing almost all your HP? Are you going to let yourself get shot to achieve this? Please don't be that dumb, and if you are, I hope you get detonated for trying. Do not take. Preventative Maintenance is another great paper skill, but if you did what I said and took Last Stand, 2 modules that would be protected by this skill aren't actually terrible to take damage to. And this won't stop your turrets from getting destroyed by HE penning them, so what's the point? This is not a skill worth 5 points. Do not take. Jack of All Trades is a good skill, but not a skill worth dropping 5 points on, even for CAs. Do not take. If you are reading this hoping I have something good to say about Air Supremacy, you're obviously a sky cancer pilot and should consider, I don't know, uninstalling or something? Ha, take that, CVs. Rank 6 Skills: Russian Bias is a pretty good skill, but it only works on the Murmansk, and that is a CA so you're out of luck. Sucks to be you! Edit: If you are dying to long range torpedoes, you need to consider something important. That DD who launched the torpedo at 9-10KM away... he did that 30+ seconds ago! AND YOU STILL SAILED INTO HIS FIRING ARC, and then couldn't avoid the torpedoes with warning that they were approaching too! Try not to be so hilariously predictable. You have only yourself to blame. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 00:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqvRfimpjq4 Don't worry about that smoke cloud getting close to you, I'm sure there's nothing in it.
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Jul 15, 2015 00:39
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Hazdoc posted:Time for Incoming Fire means you will get that much more warning from ships firing over islands. It also tells you the ships that have not only spotted you, but bothered to shoot at you. Don't underestimate pubbies. Just because they see some DD doing donuts in a critical control point doesn't mean they are going to bother to do anything about it. Incoming Fire lets you know the players that are bothered to actually try to kill you.
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Jul 15, 2015 00:51
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Vorkosigan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqvRfimpjq4 Hahaha, glorious. Hazdoc posted:Time for Thanks. I picked up both Aiming Expert and Torpedo Expertise on my IJN DD captain!  Feels bad to delay the rank 3+ skills, but eh.
PirateBob fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 00:58
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Incoming fire only works when you're getting shot at by someone who has over 6 seconds ToT for it. If you're on the same heading uninterrupted for 6 seconds while being seen and someone is able to lead your tiny ship at that distance, he deserves hitting you.Hazdoc posted:*good advice* I'd probably disagree about Aiming Expert on US destroyers, especially high tiers. The Benson, Fletcher and Gearing (and the Sims) yank around their turrets so fast already that another 2.5 degrees/second are a very marginal improvement that's not really worth the 2 points. I mean, the Gearing stock whips those dual-gun turrets around at 25 degrees per second as is and the Benson and Fletcher are somewhere beyond 30 degrees per second.
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Jul 15, 2015 01:02
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NTRabbit posted:Battle off Samar is the most interesting action. Halsey was a botes pubbie, Spruance 4 lyfe. "Aircraft from the carriers of Taffy 1, 2, and 3, including FM-2 Wildcats, F6F Hellcats and TBM Avengers, strafed, bombed, torpedoed, rocketed, depth-charged, fired at least one .38 caliber handgun and made numerous 'dry' runs at the attacking force when they ran out of ammunition." 
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Jul 15, 2015 01:03
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PirateBob posted:Hahaha, glorious. You'll probably want both by the end but you might regret not getting the engine/rudder damage skill as early as possible, unless they cut back the engine damage in a patch.
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Jul 15, 2015 01:18
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Magni posted:I'd probably disagree about Aiming Expert on US destroyers, especially high tiers. The Benson, Fletcher and Gearing (and the Sims) yank around their turrets so fast already that another 2.5 degrees/second are a very marginal improvement that's not really worth the 2 points. I mean, the Gearing stock whips those dual-gun turrets around at 25 degrees per second as is and the Benson and Fletcher are somewhere beyond 30 degrees per second.
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Jul 15, 2015 01:22
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FOG name talk, I already renamed myself to Fog_Echochamber_Wehraboo. It makes them upset to say the least.
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Jul 15, 2015 01:54
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Fog_ShrimpTrawler_DongCloud
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Jul 15, 2015 02:04
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grrarg posted:Yeah the guns on Nicholas and above turn so fast that Aiming Expert is redundant on US destroyers. I take Torpedo Armament Expertise even though it does not become really useful until the Benson gets the 6+km torps. Also yeah once you hit the Benson Aiming Expert becomes completely obsolete because at 5.3s for a 180 degree turn on your turrets your turrets will be pointed at your target before you even begin to turn back if you're weaving around.
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Jul 15, 2015 02:31
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You guys keep saying 'don't travel in straight line or you deserve to get hit from torps 10 km away' but as I have said multiple times that isn't the issue. The problem is that some destroyers' concealment is too much. The problem is that a destroyer can get into 5.x km range without being detected (skill+camo+module) meanwhile whoever being spotted can't tell where the destroyer is at all. And since you have to account for destroyer at 5.x~10 km range dropping torpedo you need to constantly vary your vector which further reduces chance of you successfully running or hiding if enemy is chasing you. Basically one destroyer is enough to drop your chance of survival by so much. There are times you absolutely must travel straight just to get out of tricky situation (or get to cap fast for defending), except you will still die if you do that. Once a destroyer decides to stick to you there's nothing you can do except hope that it fucks up, gets spotted and die fast. Sure it's not a big deal when the game just started, but it becomes a big problem once teams thin out due to spreading or getting destroyed. Increasing destroyer concealment range should solve all these problems tbh. It will still fire torps from range (and if you die to it then you deserve it) but at least it will increase the chance of people being chased survive as you only need to account for destroyers at longer range which means you don't need to vary vector as much as before just to avoid torpedo, therefore retaining enough speed to get to cover at least.
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Jul 15, 2015 03:16
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Aesis posted:You guys keep saying 'don't travel in straight line or you deserve to get hit from torps 10 km away' but as I have said multiple times that isn't the issue. The problem is that some destroyers' concealment is too much. Don't drive a big slow battleship, the things that should be racing back to cap in a straight line are destroyers and cruisers, which can both easily dodge a torp spread from a DD.
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Jul 15, 2015 03:20
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Aesis posted:You guys keep saying 'don't travel in straight line or you deserve to get hit from torps 10 km away' but as I have said multiple times that isn't the issue. The problem is that some destroyers' concealment is too much. In a battleship or carrier, the only ship classes that generally have much trouble dodging long range torpedoes, you reset cap with main battery shells or attack aircraft that outrun all ships and don't have to dodge torpedoes. If your battleship is alone on the team and out of position against one ship capping in a safe spot and another destroyer running interference, you absolutely should lose. Thronde posted:FOG name talk, I already renamed myself to Fog_Echochamber_Wehraboo. It makes them upset to say the least. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 03:24
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imo the only ships that should be able to do anything effectively or serve a specific purpose are bbs and all i want them to do is shoot guns good. thx for listening.
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Jul 15, 2015 03:49
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Aesis posted:You guys keep saying 'don't travel in straight line or you deserve to get hit from torps 10 km away' but as I have said multiple times that isn't the issue. The problem is that some destroyers' concealment is too much. No, just no. DDs counter BBs. That is a fact that wargaming intends. If you are traveling alone, don't get upset when you can't run away from a ship significantly smaller and faster than you. They'll die in just a couple of hits from your primary armament, and you want to take away the only tool they have for staying alive? Have you even played DDs?
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Jul 15, 2015 04:56
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So on Fault Line enemy ignores Destroyer Thunderdome except a poor Tenryu and a handful of ships head for their cap. Ships get in the cap and just stop. Full stop right in the open, not even near the goddamn island for cover. A Wyoming does the same goddamn thing. WHY.
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Jul 15, 2015 05:02
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Sankis posted:Can I put people on ignore somhow? I can't figure it out. I get tired of people bitching when they die that we didn't somehow save them. Especially CVs who made no effort to stay mobile. Man, I'm just tired of people bitching after they run into my torps. Which I fired 20-30seconds ago. And they weren't in danger when I fired. And they ignored they TORP WARNING OH GOD voice. I realize its easy to blame the one who fired the torps, but yes, sometimes its your loving fault you ran into my torps 
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Jul 15, 2015 05:10
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I wonder if this would work in game, but I wonder if it would be possible to see torpedo wakes at longer ranges, but you don't get the warning alerts until they close within normal spotting range. That way an observant player could dodge, but if someone is tunnel visioning or just not paying attention, they get a free trip back to the port. That would rely on someone not making a mod that sends alerts for the torpedo wakes.
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Jul 15, 2015 05:15
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CitizenKain posted:I wonder if this would work in game, but I wonder if it would be possible to see torpedo wakes at longer ranges, but you don't get the warning alerts until they close within normal spotting range. That way an observant player could dodge, but if someone is tunnel visioning or just not paying attention, they get a free trip back to the port. Naw, torpedo wakes are actually pretty noticeable unless you really are not paying attention hardcore. And yeah, the whole mod thing. They'd just change the torpedo wakes to look neon pink and then it'd be impossible to not notice. I believe if you have a DD spotted you can sometimes see their torpedo tubes deploy torpedoes if they're close enough, but don't quote me on that. I certainly saw it before in CBT.
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Jul 15, 2015 05:18
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 Well then.
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Jul 15, 2015 05:23
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CitizenKain posted:So on Fault Line enemy ignores Destroyer Thunderdome except a poor Tenryu and a handful of ships head for their cap. Ships get in the cap and just stop. Full stop right in the open, not even near the goddamn island for cover. A Wyoming does the same goddamn thing. WHY. I took the beta Arkansas out for the first time today, and had a Tenryu just randomly stop in the middle of the map. Despite shotgunning all around him, I managed 2 citadels and nearly got him.
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Jul 15, 2015 05:29
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| # ? May 12, 2024 00:42 |
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This was some good CV matching way to go World of Warships. The Hosho's fighters promptly died to the Tier 8's bombers and everyone else got overrun by what seemed like a dozen planes.
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