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Yami Fenrir posted:Chem Grenades halve DR? Preeetty much. Also good show on that one-after-another hack to finish up that EXALT extraction so quickly. Only once got that kind of luck myself in deployment on that map. Usually, the dumb comm arrays are down on the road, below.
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Jul 15, 2015 15:51
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That sounds incredibly useful given how DR seems to be the "difficulty" mechanic for mech units?
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Man, I dunno how I'm feeling about Exalt missions anymore. On the one hand it's kind of cool that they're actual threats and you can't just steam roll over them, on the other hand it's getting kinda dumb that you're far less likely to evac out of a mission with aliens then you are exalt just because they get such ridiculous numbers, perfect accuracy rockets etc. It doesn't look fun to play honestly, and it isn't particularly fun to watch when exalt don't all get shot in the face. That might just be my blood thirst speaking though.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:04
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SaffronKit posted:Man, I dunno how I'm feeling about Exalt missions anymore. On the one hand it's kind of cool that they're actual threats and you can't just steam roll over them, on the other hand it's getting kinda dumb that you're far less likely to evac out of a mission with aliens then you are exalt just because they get such ridiculous numbers, perfect accuracy rockets etc. I feel ya. It doesn't help that 3 of 4 of our missions so far have been covert extractions. The covert extraction maps just don't lend themselves very well to stealth mechanics. In most tactical stealth games you focus on, among other things 1: Not being seen, 2: eliminating threats quickly without attracting attention. The first covert extraction was a reasonably good way of demonstrating this, the second one wasn't as good, but showed what the worst case scenario should be, this third one should simply never happen, the map is too cramped, and the squad has too much LOS from turn 0. Something like this could be solved by placing the squad behind that garage that the covert op is at, then you can use all sorts of LOS tricks and 'stealth tactics' to tackle the relays and escape, but when you activate every single bad guy after the first turn because there's no possible way to hide, that leads to sloppy-looking missions that don't provide very good gameplay. A lot of problems with covert extractions can be solved by where the squad is in relation to the covert op, if anything to reduce total LOS and promote a more stealthy approach. I'm not sure if a lot of this stuff is hard-coded and unmoddable. All we can really do is get some of these bad missions out of the way. e: Also pretty much every map in EW/LW is more about tactical-shooty gameplay over tactical-stealth gameplay. ProfessorBooty fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 20:08
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Yeah, I think EXALT is the one thing barely anyone would argue that it isn't badly designed in LW. You can argue about a lot of stuff, but EXALT just doesn't work properly. I mean, the whole "EXALT are a much bigger threat than the aliens" thing aside, it's very telling that you have to use stealth in a game that's really not designed for it to be able to do the missions without heavy losses. Not to mention they entirely break the dynamic war option. From what I've heard, quite a few people actually completely disable EXALT on the basis that they're not only too powerful, but they also worsen the fatigue spiral.
Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 20:35
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Personally I'm quite liking the covert extractions. Even though the game mechanics and maps don't really support it, lightning fast stealth raids to pull out the operative look really cool. They're good and tense too, because so many things can go wrong.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:29
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TomViolence posted:Personally I'm quite liking the covert extractions. Even though the game mechanics and maps don't really support it, lightning fast stealth raids to pull out the operative look really cool. They're good and tense too, because so many things can go wrong. I agree somewhat, the first time was kinda cool, but we've gotten like 2 in a row now and 3/4 missions have been covert exctraction and the game just doesn't really lend itself to that sort of thing imo.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:43
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I have to agree with the skeptics, that mission wasn't very fun. It reminded me a bit of Beaglerush's second-to-last mission where he has a ton of rather bullshit activations and ends up aborting. It's not even the game giving you a choice between aborting and heavy losses. It's a troll.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:46
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monster on a stick posted:I have to agree with the skeptics, that mission wasn't very fun. It reminded me a bit of Beaglerush's second-to-last mission where he has a ton of rather bullshit activations and ends up aborting. It's not even the game giving you a choice between aborting and heavy losses. It's a troll. Beagle has a great early-game strategy for covert extractions, but I disagree with the fact he doesn't give his covert ops anything to help with their vision so they can avoid activations. The covert op is, in a manner of speaking, a lot safer when further away from other groups to prevent activations, with better tools to grant vision you can stealth your op about much safer, at the very least getting the op within run and gun range to an encoder. My philosophy is to get the covert op as close as possible to a relay without causing an activation, then hack/chain hack if possible and go. In the early game your guys aren't good enough to take out more than a couple exalt at a time, later on exalt get so tough that its best not to risk taking them on. I'm pretty comfortable with using the motion tracker now, and I think on covert extraction maps that are not this one or one other one I have a strategy that should keep things buttery smooth.
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Jul 15, 2015 23:29
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The motion trackers are honestly pretty goddamn cool and good, I'm even tempted to say it's more useful then battlescanners initially. edited cause I is good at grammar. Evil Kit fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 00:00
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The range on them seems pretty high, actually. I think they actually cover almost as much ground as a non-bombadier battlescanner would have? Which is pretty drat impressive considering the things are omni-directional...
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Jul 16, 2015 00:04
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Yeah, next mission I have some gripes, but the mission afterward, and in following missions I exploit them pretty well IMO.
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Jul 16, 2015 00:06
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Man, Livingiseasy must need to do a lot of cardio to do those extraction ops. Also, my recent Long War experience does kind of line up with what has been going on for the past couple of pages of commentary. The air game is a mess, Phoenix Cannons are terrible, and covert extractions are mostly bouncing the agent from relay to relay, killing maybe 3 EXALT and then running away. These are probably my least favourite things in LW and worth modifying for anyone interested and capable of doing so (also, remember, I am playing on non-Ironman Normal). That said, I look forward to getting back in the air since my plane is now good as new. Just remind me not to target fixate so hard when the time comes, and I should be fine.
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Jul 16, 2015 00:38
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How hard-coded is the way a covert extraction plays out? As in, could the basic structure of "X relays, the operative has to hit them, each one jams all EXALT weapons, once they're all hit then everyone can extract" be changed? I ask because it seems like a much cooler mission would be one where there are no relays and you simply have to get everyone (but the operative in particular) to the extraction point. The difficulty being, of course, that the operative starts out behind enemy lines, and with no relays he can't just sprint past them all in perfect safety, so you have to clear the path so he can link back up. Then you could cut back on the ridiculous swarms of EXALT, maybe have really heavy reinforcements start after two-three turns if you want to keep the feeling of desperation. e: Also yeah the air-game looks physically painful. You have, what, 10 planes now and are lucky if more than one is operational at any given time?
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Jul 16, 2015 00:56
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Well, to be honest, the Air game upgrades help with that a lot. Now, if only you had the resources to buy them...
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Jul 16, 2015 01:00
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I thought alloy bipods could also be used on gunners with LMGs? At least, that's what I remember. It also seems the stats on it have been nerfed, it used to be +10 aim and crit, wasn't it?
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Jul 16, 2015 17:01
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64bitrobot posted:I thought alloy bipods could also be used on gunners with LMGs? At least, that's what I remember. It also seems the stats on it have been nerfed, it used to be +10 aim and crit, wasn't it? Yeah, its changed. It used to give the platform stability perk to gunners, which was +10aim/crit if they don't move before shooting. Now platform stability is available on the gunner and sniper tree, so its been made a sniper-only aim buffing item with 0 weight.
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Jul 16, 2015 17:22
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ProfessorBooty posted:Yeah, its changed. It used to give the platform stability perk to gunners, which was +10aim/crit if they don't move before shooting. Now platform stability is available on the gunner and sniper tree, so its been made a sniper-only aim buffing item with 0 weight. That actually sounds a poo poo ton less useful! Even for 0 weight, it'd have to also not take up an item slot or something.
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Jul 16, 2015 17:25
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Meh. Sometimes you just need the aim. I get use out of it, and its pretty cheap. Better than a laser sight.
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Jul 16, 2015 17:28
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Call me crazy but I think it's a great idea. I mean, how often do you end up wishing for just a little more aim on a sniper? Especially on Disabling Shot and/or ITZ snipers, it's great to have. Combining it with holotargeting and a SCOPE/Neural Gunlink, that's actually quite a lot of extra aim on a class you really want to have the biggest amount of aim possible. Also, as a side note, am I the only one that built-in defense for aliens is a horrible idea in both vanilla and EW? I'd much rather have more HP (DR has it's own problems, really) than having to roll the dice even harder to just do damage. I remember Beagle (Yes, Impossible Difficulty, but still) having a 50% shot to shoot a Muton Elite WITHOUT COVER. That's just insane! Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 17:36
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 Youtube Link After the covert extraction I figure it would be nice for us to have a feel-good mission  Enjoy! Also, a better example of how to use command.I have some criticisms of the motion scanner, and even though it could be better in an ideal world it's an elegant addition and makes missions a lot less stressful.  Congratulations Fister Roboto in making Corporal! Fister Roboto needs a nickname!
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Jul 17, 2015 13:48
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Clearly, Fister Roboto is Anti-Air. Also, capture train woohoo! If only you had more charges/throwers, you could have captured that floater too! That's pretty impressive... just as impressive as the lack of difficulty for this mission. But 17 meld? If I got that right, that means the aliens are gonna turn up the heat soon?
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Jul 17, 2015 14:28
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Two captures!? drat son. Yeah I saw the high meld yield and knew it was gonna be fun times in the upcoming month. Seconding Anti-Air as well.
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Jul 17, 2015 14:36
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Things are looking great on the capture front and I hope to see it become a money spinner once you get a decent surplus of plasma guns. Also cannot wait to see how insane the next mission is. It's either going to be mountains of alien corpses to sell or a succession of new additions for the memorial wall. 
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Jul 17, 2015 14:47
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I kinda like the motion tracker, it does fulfills a similar role as the battle-scanner but does so a sufficiently different way that I feel neither is superior to the other. If it just but a blob of light where there where enemies it would feel too much like the battle-scanner, that might just be me though.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:22
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xelada posted:I kinda like the motion tracker, it does fulfills a similar role as the battle-scanner but does so a sufficiently different way that I feel neither is superior to the other. If it just but a blob of light where there where enemies it would feel too much like the battle-scanner, that might just be me though. Now that I'm used to it I don't have any problems anymore. The way I use it now I only glance up at the radar a couple times so it doesn't have the same impact on gameplay that say the soliton radar from MGS has. Maybe the problem now is that it makes missions too easy? The next few missions go very smoothly.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:26
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That capture rate is bullshit. 50/50-ish at best? Come on.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:35
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There is only one choice as a nickname for Fister Roboto. Doumo Arigatou Fister Roboto for shooting all those aliens in the face. Argh I hope I'm going on this next mission, I've been itching for some action after being on the bench for so long. Let me at'em Booty, put me in coach I can take'em! (I know it's already been recorded but here's hoping.  )Yami Fenrir posted:Also, capture train woohoo! If only you had more charges/throwers, you could have captured that floater too! That's pretty impressive... just as impressive as the lack of difficulty for this mission. Soon? Going by the numbers of the next mission the next mission, the heat has already been brought.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:37
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SaffronKit posted:Soon? Going by the numbers of the next mission the next mission, the heat has already been brought. Isn't that because it happens to be taking place in Egypt because it has super high panic though? Or am I getting mixed up between cause and effect? Also how much is a successful mission here going to alleviate the fact that Egypt is basically on the verge of bailing?
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Jul 17, 2015 17:40
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Oh, the plan is pretty much to let Egypt bail. We just shot off the satellite to prevent them from bailing last month. Its kind of gamey but I really want the Asia continent bonus someday and liberating every single country in Asia for the long haul is impossible. Liberating India and Australia with a good foothold in Japan and China is doable. Also, hopefully the terror mission will be in Egypt, which would be great because we're already considering them a lost cause, and 'sympathetic' panic increases in Nigeria and South Africa will distract the aliens for the next couple months, while we finish expansion in Europe, South America, and start on Asia. I know around 50% capture rate is worse than vanilla, but its not so bad if you plan around it. Sure, you have bad capture missions, but if you go with a capture heavy strategy this really isn't a huge deal.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:50
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Every time Fister Roboto is mentioned I can only think of Fisto! So I think that needs to be the nickname.
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Jul 17, 2015 17:55
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Another permotion for me. That's good.
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Jul 17, 2015 18:06
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I remain confident that I will get my promotions later, and so don't mind sharing them with my companions! ...Though an Alloy Bipod would be a nice reward for my magnanimity, sir!
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Jul 17, 2015 19:05
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Broose posted:Every time Fister Roboto is mentioned I can only think of Fisto! So I think that needs to be the nickname.  
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Jul 17, 2015 20:03
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The name is a link to a youtube explaining.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:10
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Broose posted:The name is a link to a youtube explaining. I saw it, I'm just messing with ya
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Jul 17, 2015 20:13
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Oh. Boy is my face red. Thought something might've been messed up since the link looks like normal bold to me. Didn't even know there was a star wars character with the name until now though.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:19
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Good to see you captured more aliens and got their toys to research. and can't wait to see how the next mission plays out. Congratulations Fister "Anti-Air" Roboto.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:23
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Come on guys, Anti-Air is so boring, let's at least make it somewhat interesting.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:33
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ProfessorBooty posted:Oh, the plan is pretty much to let Egypt bail. We just shot off the satellite to prevent them from bailing last month. Its kind of gamey but I really want the Asia continent bonus someday and liberating every single country in Asia for the long haul is impossible. Liberating India and Australia with a good foothold in Japan and China is doable. Also, hopefully the terror mission will be in Egypt, which would be great because we're already considering them a lost cause, and 'sympathetic' panic increases in Nigeria and South Africa will distract the aliens for the next couple months, while we finish expansion in Europe, South America, and start on Asia. I don't fully follow. Why were you so keen on them not bailing last month? It can't just be the money, because the satellite cost more than Egypt gave in a month. I assume it has something to do with getting Asia, but I don't get how holding onto Egypt for another few weeks helps with that, exactly. ...and as I write this post, something occurred to me. Are you using Egypt to "tank" the terror for a while, so that they don't hit Japan/China and thus make Asia much more difficult?
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Jul 17, 2015 20:36
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Fister "Whiskers" Roboto. No special reason. I just wanna call him whiskers  edit: EggsAisle posted:...and as I write this post, something occurred to me. Are you using Egypt to "tank" the terror for a while, so that they don't hit Japan/China and thus make Asia much more difficult? You got it!
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Jul 17, 2015 20:41
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