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I agree. I haven't had much success making it more popular here, which sucks.
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Jul 7, 2015 06:13
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PaybackJack posted:AEG is one of those companies that's perfectly happy sitting in it's niche with it's niche audience and strong ties to it's communities. Growing the community means more dollars for art and production which means better-quality components. I mean I like this game a lot but some of the art is really rough and some of it is flat out bad (scoop hound SCOOP HOUND SCOOP HOUND). It definitely shows its budget occasionally.
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Jul 7, 2015 17:11
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Growing the community means more dollars for art and production which means better-quality components. The budget is a part of it, but a lot of the guys involved in the process just aren't very good. It's one of those things where they hire people connected to the community and those people become a part of the process without formal training. It's why the templating is so loving awful and why for years and years the design team for l5R and the rules team are always overruling one another. They like to keep close ties with the community and that means the equivalent of hiring your cousin to paint your house because he took a watercoloring class in community college. You know that he's not going to do a good job but it keeps your family happy. This isn't a company that wants to become the next Wizards of the Coast, and at this point even FFG probably seems bigger than they want to be.
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Jul 7, 2015 20:07
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See you're actually unselling me on the supporting the game in the future here. I don't need The Next Big Thing nor expect every company to be gunning for the #1 spot in the biz but I do expect them to try to make the best quality game they can. I wasn't aware that they literally don't loving care about anything but rewarding their hardcore fans with lovely art and poorly-formatted cards (also made by their fans) and anemic tournaments that aren't in my area (because they don't care about marketing). Not real impressed with what you're telling me right now.
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Jul 7, 2015 20:59
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:See you're actually unselling me on the supporting the game in the future here. I don't need The Next Big Thing nor expect every company to be gunning for the #1 spot in the biz but I do expect them to try to make the best quality game they can. I wasn't aware that they literally don't loving care about anything but rewarding their hardcore fans with lovely art and poorly-formatted cards (also made by their fans) and anemic tournaments that aren't in my area (because they don't care about marketing). Not real impressed with what you're telling me right now. Well, I'm not sure what area you're in but they're actually really good about getting product and supplies to fans in all corners of the world. L5R has large communities in South East Asia and South America which I think is pretty surprising. Though not unlike many other games/companies in the U. S., they tend to just see the North American community as the most important one with Europe getting support on occasion. Again, it comes back to visibility; it's natural to form closer bonds with the people who you consistently see at your major events like Gencon and are posting constantly on your forums. I don't want you to walk away thinking they don't make the best quality game they can, but you also should understand that this is a company that looked at what Magic was doing and went the opposite direction. I tried to explain to people why every game that comes out these days has a mulligan rule and the prevailing notion is that having one leads to people using it competitively like it's used in Magic, actively throwing away hands that are marginal in order to try and get "god hands" because AEG is so concerned with people trying to be competitive they shy away from this and try to instead work it into the game. Now go read tournament reports and count how many times you read something like "I had a strong hand, he had a weak one. He couldn't cycle his fast enough to keep up. I won." it happens a lot and it's because having a hand of all dudes early on in Doomtown is akin to getting no resources in magic, the difference is that in Doomtown you not only need to hit your resource cards you also need to hit cards to help defend them. It doesn't do you any good to draw a hand full of deeds if your opponent is sitting on a hand full of shootout actions. But they don't care about these situations because they don't want people throwing away a playable hand in order to try and dig for the best one, and then winning when they get it. The answer is "if you like mulligans: just play Travis Moore every game! Problem solved!" They could have just gone with a set of rules on what you can and can't mulligan but instead they wanted to be different and avoid the "power gamer" trap, and in doing so they shot themselves in the foot. AEG is a company with a lot of passion, and is very visible with their fans and that's something that's important for a lot of people. However the thing is that because they're so insular they don't tend to look at the larger picture and where they could go because to them getting bigger means having to become more like that thing which they hate, and that a lot of their fans hate too. Even FFG gets a lot of criticism on the Doomtown Facebook group because those guys are seen as wanting to draw in the competitive magic players. and be big like Magic. When it comes to tournaments and organization, AEG will gladly, and often at their own expense, help you to try and start a community. When I first moved to Taiwan, I asked them about purchasing some demo decks for my store and they sent me 2 copies of every clans demo deck for free. Anytime I ask about getting prize support they're pretty good about getting stuff sent out to me though now everyone goes through distributors for event kits. At the end of the day though, they leave the organizing and promotion up to the individual store and the TO for that store. Of course they market through internal channels but they're not good about getting the word spread far and wide and it's usually word of mouth and seeing something at the store being played that gets people into it. Not that I think FFG is really great either, I thought the Plugged in Tour was pretty confusing in a lot of ways as it was both meant to be a chance for hardcores to play the designers and see upcoming cards, while also allowing stores to run a newbie friendly tournament, it just didn't make a lot of sense in that regard. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 21:28
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Having done warehousing and playtesting with AEG down in SoCal all I will say is that it continues to amaze me that they're still around. I'm happy, love Doomtown, and if L5R or 7th sea were made into FCGs I'd be ecstatic. But both in warehousing and play testing I regularly would think "oh my god you're supposed to be adults."
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Jul 8, 2015 05:55
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AEG get a vast amount of free advertising and goodwill from Spiel. Every year they're there and if you buy something from the stand, however small, you get a free bag. Said bag comes almost up to my waist, and I am over six feet tall. The net result is hundreds of people wandering around the largest games trade fair on Earth with the AEG logo plastered across them eight inches high, and thousands more asking them where they can get one of those huge bags that are just perfect for carrying all your purchases.
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Jul 8, 2015 13:01
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New fiction concerning Max and Morgan is up, Kyle Wagner is dead, and I'm ready for some Nightmare at Noon spoilers.
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Jul 8, 2015 21:19
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Father Wendigo posted:New fiction concerning Max and Morgan is up, Kyle Wagner is dead, and I'm ready for some Nightmare at Noon spoilers. While that was one of the better fictions I've read; its kind of dumb that Lillian didn't shoot him in the back and feed him to the carnivorous cow.
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Jul 8, 2015 21:46
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PaybackJack posted:While that was one of the better fictions I've read; its kind of dumb that Lillian didn't shoot him in the back and feed him to the carnivorous cow. I doubt her brain trust would have tolerated that. They're mad scientists, but even mad scientists would flinch at cold-blooded murder.
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Jul 8, 2015 21:49
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  Very interesting anti-metagame dudes! I wish Nathan Shane had more bullets for his ability, as-is you have to get lucky to hit an action card.
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Jul 15, 2015 14:05
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BJPaskoff posted:Very interesting anti-metagame dudes! I wish Nathan Shane had more bullets for his ability, as-is you have to get lucky to hit an action card. Not necessarily. If it's a later turn shootout, chances are not only that they've played their deeds/dudes/goods earlier in the game, but also earlier in the game round. Late game, their deck will have been thinned by playing those same type of cards so really the only time you're gambling with that ability is blocking a very early job. Against a deck like 4R which will drop any spell and cycle most deeds/dudes it can't play. You're almost guaranteed they''ll be sitting on a Hex Slinging if they've only got 2 cards in hand. Man, Warren Graves is so close to being startable with 4 other dudes. The problem then is though that he's protection and also your biggest target on the board. Hmm, not sure how to use him just yet. That 8 GR cost is hard to come up with in a lot of games these days.
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Jul 15, 2015 15:26
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Can someone tell me what order all the expansions came out in? I'm gonna buy/catch up, and I'm not sure what I need.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:11
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Deviant posted:Can someone tell me what order all the expansions came out in? I'm gonna buy/catch up, and I'm not sure what I need. I think it was: Doomtown: Reloaded – New Town, New Rules Doomtown: Reloaded – Double Dealin' Doomtown: Reloaded – Election Day Slaughter Doomtown: Reloaded – Faith and Fear Doomtown: Reloaded – Frontier Justice Doomtown: Reloaded – No Turning Back Doomtown: Reloaded – Nightmare at Noon *not released* Doomtown: Reloaded – Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force *not released*
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Jul 15, 2015 18:17
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PaybackJack posted:I think it was: Correct! Also, drat Shane is good. I like the idea of protection against hose-y Desolation Row decks.
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Jul 16, 2015 04:19
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Correct! well, i caught up on my packs. now to sort them and build some decks for gencon~. maybe some clowns.
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Jul 16, 2015 04:46
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I would enjoy hearing how that turns out.
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Jul 16, 2015 05:48
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A nice fellow on Facebook has been tracking what's been winning around the globe at Sheriff events: 4-Jul-15 Bussy Saint Georges, France - The Sloane Gang 4-Jul-15 Cardiff, Wales - Desolation Row 5-Jul-15 Guatemala - ????????? 5-Jul-15 Austin, TX (Rescheduled) 10-Jul-15 Ridgeland, MS - ???????? 11-Jul-15 Santa Clara, CA - Law Dogs 11-Jul-15 Kansas City, Missorui - Oddities of Nature 12-Jul-15 Barcelona, Spain - The Fourth Ring 12-Jul-15 Myrtle Beach, SC - Desolation Row SG -1 DR - 2 LD -1 OoN- 1 4R - 1 Pretty open field right now, only Morgan is showing a win. Doesn't look like the changes from NTB have had much effect on DR. I recall reading that the Top 2 at Kansas City were Oddities, so you might look into that tournament to see what they did.
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Jul 16, 2015 09:55
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So one of my players showed up last night with an Avie Cline Exp based 4R deck. That card is freaking brutal. In combination with Paralysis Marks or, even worse, Whateley Estate, she can very quickly start picking off your guys. He had her backed up by a pair of Pags and Tyg. Once he dropped a deed I basically had to start racing my guys either to it, or just accept that he was going to pop off 1 dude a turn. His income was naught from Avie and Tyg but since I was playing DR he had to make sure that I couldn't Kidnap Avie. It was a pretty interesting deck and I managed to win my games against it as LD and DR but he had some interesting ideas and if he could get his starting money better built, he'd be in business. Both games I ended up flooding the board with Deeds and baiting his Avie into using her ability on someone I didn't care about them dropping a couple guys with influence and taking over his deeds. With his new lineup, I suggested he go back to Oddities since they could get him more influence, as it stood in his deck he was running on little to no money, and his only influence was Avie. There's a real deck there though and it's already a pain in the rear end to play against.
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Jul 17, 2015 20:22
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I think one of the troubles I'm having is coming up with a concept. Netrunner i find easier, do people pick a card and build around it in DT? or a combo? or more, basic deck archetype?
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Jul 17, 2015 21:18
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Deviant posted:I think one of the troubles I'm having is coming up with a concept. Any of them? You really can build around any of those things. You could build around just wanting to hit straight flushes and look at what action cards(those are typically the best for straight flushes since they get recycled the moment they're used) then choosing a spread. For example 3-8 is pretty good for Law Dogs right now. You could certainly build around a theme as well. Most of the outfits have a built in theme in their design. This also leads into combos as you can look at certain card combs and then decide which deck you want to build them out of. For example El Grajo + Rapier + La Quema are a good combination that lead into a natural situation where you're building for a Dead Man's Hand deck by adding in the 8s. None of these are faction specific so you can toss them into whatever deck you like. Morgan would take advantage of the horse on other dudes, Sloane has a guy that likes the Rapier, you could add it into LD's with Abram Grothe exp and Evanor. Something I try to do when I'm building a concept is to look at my starting posse and figure out who I need to start in order to make happen what I want to have happen. If I'm doing a lot of Hexes with 4R I might take a main caster then have a backup. If I'm doing gadgets I'll probably want the same thing. If I'm shooting then I'll probably want to have at least 2 studs on the board. I'd start with this, what interests you, or what kind of decks do you build in other games that you like: Aggression, combo, tempo shifting, or control? Aggression decks right now are: Law Dogs using Bounty Hunters and the Judge to go immediately after your opponents big influence dudes and acing them straight away, OR Desolation Row running job after job to build up money and flood the board with good shooters and deeds. Morgan Dude/Deedslide has taken a bit of a back seat at the moment. Combo...eh there aren't really any bomb combo decks right now. Avie Cline exp + Whateley Estate is pretty good, Whateley Estate + Phantasm + Puppet is also good. There's not really a great combo out there that's an instant win when it hits the board. Closest I can really think of is Forcefield + Hot Lead Flying and even then you still need to get a bunch of their guys in your opponents posse. Nicodemus Whateley can be a bomb when he hits the board so you do want to be careful about letting your guys get booted but he's not something you can build around so easily because at the end of the day he needs to be in town and that makes him vulnerable. Tempo shifting decks are pretty popular, the chief among them being LDs and SG. These decks are well balanced to slowly build for the late game while offering actions, dudes, and goods that can come out early to punish control players. These decks are a little generic but also very flexible and versatile in that they can deal with just about everything else in the format. Their weakness is Deed slide because they end up a little too slow on the output of new guys a lot of the time and end up a few dudes short of where they need to be to take over everything when the board reaches a loss condition for them. Control, is basically everything that requires setup, you're either controlling the board with lots of hexes in 4R, a group of Abominations camped out in town square from Oddities, or a bunch of Gadget using dudes from Morgan Cattle, Gadgetorium, or maybe the Arsenal. In this game control is basically anything long term. You're giving up short term gains in order to establish a better position in the following turns. Growth in these decks is fairly slow in terms of new dudes or deeds and these decks aren't really looking to get too much out there before they start making their moves. The exception being the Oddities which I might classify as agro control because they're looking to camp in town square which is a pretty aggressive move, but really they're just looking to cut off the board from their opponents more than actually fight it out right away. I might compare it to a boxer who wants to keep his opponent in the corner and throwing jabs to wear them down. Even though he's being aggressive, he's not really looking to close the distance and start swinging.
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Jul 17, 2015 22:36
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Jul 21, 2015 10:00
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Totally mediocre spell. I wish that instead of acing these spells they would make them once per game so that they could be fodder for abilities that required booting a spell.
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Jul 21, 2015 11:33
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If anyone is going to Gencon I'm looking to sell my Doomtown Deluxe edition. I don't want to schlep it to Indy unless there's interest though.
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Jul 21, 2015 14:01
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When it says "this miracle's skill check" does it mean 9, or say if you pull a 10, then it's 10? Or does it say that because some cards may increase the skill check?
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Jul 21, 2015 14:36
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BJPaskoff posted:When it says "this miracle's skill check" does it mean 9, or say if you pull a 10, then it's 10? Or does it say that because some cards may increase the skill check? It means your total after pulling, not the difficulty of the spell. the difficulty the is difficulty value written on the spell + modifiers, your check is your pull + modifiers(Blessed #). So the spell can fetch a dude of grit less than the pull you make + blessed value + any other modifiers.
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Jul 21, 2015 15:25
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If I Ace a dude using Judge Harry, does that also satisfy 'discard' for Gomorra Jail?
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Jul 22, 2015 15:28
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Deviant posted:If I Ace a dude using Judge Harry, does that also satisfy 'discard' for Gomorra Jail? Nope. You don't get points for having corpses in your jail.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:16
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PaybackJack posted:Nope. You don't get points for having corpses in your jail. Well, that combo is less good than I thought. But Judge+Burton still seems good. Also, can I get feedback on this 4R Hex deck? The idea is to blood curse the enemy out to gently caress-all influence and win on control. I want to take 2 decks to gencon and this is one i'm considering. The Fourth Ring (Base Set) Dude (13) 1x Micah Ryse* (Base Set) 4x Avie Cline (Base Set) 2x Jia Mein* (Base Set) 4x Steele Archer* (Base Set) 2x Smiling Tom (Election Day Slaughter) Deed (12) 4x B & B Attorneys (Base Set) 4x Carter's Bounties (Base Set) 4x General Store (Base Set) Spell (12) 4x Shadow Walk (Base Set) 4x Blood Curse (Base Set) 4x Puppet (Election Day Slaughter) Action (15) 4x War Paint (Base Set) 4x Unprepared (Base Set) 3x Hex Slingin' (Base Set) 4x It's Not What You Know... (Double Dealin')
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Jul 22, 2015 16:18
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Lots of problems here. First off you're running too many of the same dudes, deeds and some of your spells. I was writing out a bunch of ideas and ended up just redoing your deck, probably pretty similar to something I posted a while ago. Anyway, use this as a starting point for building. Basically you don't need nearly as many of the cards that you're running as you think you do and in a deck like 4R you're looking to draw the game out a bit so having a spread of cards is fine in a lot of cases. The Fourth Ring (Base Set) You don't need to run dudes that you're starting in your deck. It's better to run other dudes that can come out alongside them. All dudes are unique unless labeled non-unique so there's no need to run so many of the same guy. I wouldn't run Jia Mein as a starter either because he's too expensive and you need a better shooter. Try the following instead: Starting Dudes: 1x The Brute* 1x Tyxarglenak* 1x Jake Smiley* 1x Leonardo "Leon" Cavallo 1x Valeria Batten Starting income/Upkeep: 2/-2 This will give you a decent shooter and action card protection, another stud, a huckster with a good ability, a dude who can take a bunch of causalities, and 5 influence during nightfall. If you're worried about your starting upkeep you can trade out Leo for Micah although that might mess with some of your pulls. Do this if you keep running out of cash before you can get rolling. Since the core structure of the deck is based around Blood Curse we'll focus on that with some extra spells alongside it, namely Paralysis Mark, we'll look at those next and comeback to the dudes. [/i] Spell (14) 2x Shadow Walk (Base Set) 4x Blood Curse (Base Set) 2x Puppet (Election Day Slaughter) 4x Paralysis Mark 2x Fetch You don't need to run more Shadow Walks than you'll typically have casters on the board. Puppet is too expensive in the early game to get out, and if you lose control of town square or they have a high value dude, it will be worthless as it targets grit. Instead Paralysis Mark only targets value and will be much easier to help you lock down their dudes at home. A pair of fetch are great even as off value cards as they will allow you to grab other cards out of your lowball hands when your opponent cheats, and give you some cover during a shootout where your opponent cheats as well. They're also targets for another important card that we'll see later on. Deed (10) 2x Circle M Ranch 2x Pat's Perch 2x General Store (Base Set) 2x St. Anthony's Chapel (Faith and Fear) 1x Jackson's Strike 1x Telegraph Office Doubling up on the deeds that hit our target numbers, and having a couple off value that give us money and control points respectively will help our end game. If you're finding yourself still light on control points by the end, you could swap out the Pat's for another pair of cheap 1cp deeds, like Railroad Station and Bairds. Action (14) 2x Unprepared (Base Set) 4x Hex Slingin' (Base Set) 4x It's Not What You Know... (Double Dealin') 2x Reserves 2x Rumors War Paint is entirely too low value to really help you reliably in a shootout as most of the time the shootouts you're losing will be ones you don't see coming. PIstol Whip would be a better option but it's also pretty low in value and we need higher pulls to help our Hucksters always hit on Blood Curse. Rumors on the other hand is the perfect limited card for what we want. Unprepared is a good card, but it's something we want to have available but not in multiples. A pair of reserves give us some additional ghost rock to help afford those 'It's Not What You Know"and keep our hand moving. Rumors sit in our hand until we're ready to lockdown the board and cripple their influence. Hex Slinging is a key card and we definitely want to run x4 of it. Dudes (non-starting) (9) 1x Ghostly Gun 2x Steven Wiles 1x Kevin Wainwright 1x Eve Henry 1x Smiling Tom 1x Jia Mein 1x Avie Cline 1x Clint Ramsey We've basically cut down to the essential values when it comes to dudes. Unfortunately quite a few of them are expensive as gently caress. I would consider dropping Jia Mein and Smiling Tom in favor of 2x Eve Henry if you feel like you're never able to afford anyone above 7. So in the deck we're running: 4: 2 7: 2 8: 15 10: 5 J: 7 Q: 15 K: 1
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Jul 22, 2015 17:51
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PaybackJack posted:
I originally picked cards I thought would work well, and then doubled down on their draw value. I guess I don't need to do that since I won't be getting into shootouts (ideally), or I'll be winning them via other means? Any reason you're not running 2 jokers? Deviant fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 18:31
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Deviant posted:I originally picked cards I thought would work well, and then doubled down on their draw value. I guess I don't need to do that since I won't be getting into shootouts (ideally), or I'll be winning them via other means? 2 Jokers are always in every deck, so just always assume they're present. You will be getting into shootouts, you won't be able to avoid that most games. Consistency/redundancy on the dudes you were running doesn't help if those dudes get aced. It's better to run a spread on most dudes and be able to play more of them over a game. Only really powerful, game swinging dudes, like Whateley, are really worth running multiple copies of.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:31
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Organizing my stuff, I know a few cards have been errata'ed and reprinted, can anyone confirm which cards have been re-issued so far?
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Jul 23, 2015 17:56
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Deviant posted:Organizing my stuff, I know a few cards have been errata'ed and reprinted, can anyone confirm which cards have been re-issued so far? Unprepared was rereleased in Frontier Justice Concealed Weapons(?) was rereleased in No Turning Back I think that's it.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:20
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PaybackJack posted:Unprepared was rereleased in Frontier Justice Thank you. On an unrelated note, I accidentally bought an extra Frontier Justice. Anyone need it?
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Jul 23, 2015 20:50
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Had my Sheriff event out here in Taipei, went about as badly as it could go. Two of our regulars were out of town so I drafted two of my star wars regulars to fill some seats. Then the guy I'd gotten to judge no-showed and another guy decided he had better things to do, taking us from 6 with a judge to 5 with no judge, so I stepped out to judge leaving 4 players to compete for the sheriff stuff. However my loss is your gain as I have 7 extra sets(one red one black) of Jokers. If anyone can't make it to a Sheriff event and wants them drop me an email: paybackjack@gmail.com
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Jul 25, 2015 22:03
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PaybackJack posted:Had my Sheriff event out here in Taipei, went about as badly as it could go. Two of our regulars were out of town so I drafted two of my star wars regulars to fill some seats. Then the guy I'd gotten to judge no-showed and another guy decided he had better things to do, taking us from 6 with a judge to 5 with no judge, so I stepped out to judge leaving 4 players to compete for the sheriff stuff. Email sent, I don't think there's any organized play here in central Arkansas at the moment.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:37
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PaybackJack posted:Had my Sheriff event out here in Taipei, went about as badly as it could go. Two of our regulars were out of town so I drafted two of my star wars regulars to fill some seats. Then the guy I'd gotten to judge no-showed and another guy decided he had better things to do, taking us from 6 with a judge to 5 with no judge, so I stepped out to judge leaving 4 players to compete for the sheriff stuff. Would love to have one, will send an email!
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Jul 26, 2015 07:47
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Im just now getting into this game since MM had the core set super cheap awhile back. I find it more "fast paced" than a lot of other lcg's but I still manage to beat my local friends (consistantly) who have the saddlebags just by playing Law Dogs, making their dudes wanted, and murdering their goddamn faces off. IsIthat popular meta (ive seen it mentioned in reading the thread) or should they be beating my newbie rear end with cards like Desolation Row and The Ghostly Gun?
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Jul 26, 2015 08:37
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Brock Samsonite posted:Im just now getting into this game since MM had the core set super cheap awhile back. I find it more "fast paced" than a lot of other lcg's but I still manage to beat my local friends (consistantly) who have the saddlebags just by playing Law Dogs, making their dudes wanted, and murdering their goddamn faces off. IsIthat popular meta (ive seen it mentioned in reading the thread) or should they be beating my newbie rear end with cards like Desolation Row and The Ghostly Gun? Law Dogs are pretty strong as probably second best out of the core set, but unlike Morgan their decktype hasn't gotten weaker over the course of the saddlebags as players have learned how movement and control work, but also as more cheaper influence dudes have come along.
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Jul 26, 2015 09:30
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