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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The future war is actually insanely boring, unless you include the Salvation/Genisys twist that something's wrong and things aren't happening the way they 'should'. The cool thing about that setting is, you don't have to have any robot fighting. You can do whatever you want. It's a completely open terrain for stories. You could do a story about a couple of people just surviving their way to hope, or something. Bring back the horror of the first Terminator, without the time travel.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:05
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CelticPredator posted:The cool thing about that setting is, you don't have to have any robot fighting. You can do whatever you want. It's a completely open terrain for stories. You could do a story about a couple of people just surviving their way to hope, or something. Bring back the horror of the first Terminator, without the time travel. It's the same reason the Walking Dead is so successful. "Killing zombies" is the hook, but it's a hook that gets stale really fast. What keeps people watching that show (and reading the comic series) is the character interactions.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:10
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I just find it really hard to believe that the humans could ever not get completely poo poo on in the Future War without the robots being idiots.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:11
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I take it back, I don't want Walking Dead Terminator.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:11
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Martman posted:I just find it really hard to believe that the humans could ever not get completely poo poo on in the Future War without the robots being idiots. We already know the robots do some dumb poo poo - they have the ability to build themselves into literally any shape, and they choose giant tanks and walking humanoid endoskeletons as their main frontline troops. Hell, we also already know that in most of the timelines, Skynet is "losing" the war by the time John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time. CelticPredator posted:I take it back, I don't want Walking Dead Terminator.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:14
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CelticPredator posted:The cool thing about that setting is, you don't have to have any robot fighting. You can do whatever you want. It's a completely open terrain for stories. You could do a story about a couple of people just surviving their way to hope, or something. Bring back the horror of the first Terminator, without the time travel. That's stupid.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's stupid.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:19
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oohhboy posted:T3 is pretty good in general. Better than Gensys both as a movie and as a Terminator film. It had a Terminator punch through someone to drive a car. RELAX. We will meet again. That ending was a great gently caress you. The crane scene was just demolishing stuff. It was fun and funny without most of the stupid Gensys has. The characters worked. Yeah, it's not a great work like T1 and 2, but it is closer to them than 4/5 is. This Collector's Edition they're doing seems interesting.   http://www.filmarena-eng.com/blu-ra...steelbooks-foil
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Jul 16, 2015 08:32
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Immortan posted:This Collector's Edition they're doing seems interesting.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:35
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Let's make a movie set in the Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai Du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles universe! It's such a rich universe that you don't have to make it about a woman. You can make it about a fireman... who fights robots!
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Jul 16, 2015 08:36
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I think the issue with a future war movie is if you want a Terminator movie*, cause if you want an expanded future war thing you'll probably end up with, I dunno, more of a plain war movie, if that makes any sense. *...whatever that means to be exact, but there were earlier posts complaining about later movies not holding the premise enough. I think a large part of it would be going from one terminator to a whole army of generic exoskeletons. You'd still have the survival aspect but lose the iconic villain (or hero in later films). I guess they could retcon the T800's origin, like Arnold as a future human soldier that gets captured/copied or something. Course Genisys arguably made him human enough already that it wouldn't necessarily be treading that much new ground.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:53
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If they have to make a dumb Terminator sequel, give me something that hasn't been done yet in the series with new concepts and ideas. Not the same old John Connor bullshit over and over. Tired of it. Tired of Terminators tbh. The series, as a whole, is pretty awful and not nearly as interesting as the first film. (T2 is great, and it should've stopped there)
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Jul 16, 2015 09:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The future war is actually insanely boring, unless you include the Salvation/Genisys twist that something's wrong and things aren't happening the way they 'should'. Have you seen Batman vs Terminator though?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDYyAAdtDfk
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Jul 16, 2015 09:08
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CelticPredator posted:If they have to make a dumb Terminator sequel, give me something that hasn't been done yet in the series with new concepts and ideas. Not the same old John Connor bullshit over and over. Tired of it. They did do something different though, Judgment Day never happens and the whole timeline got hosed up in Genisys to the point that John Connor was never even born and instead of implanting Sarah Connor with the savior of mankind, Kyle Reese implants a message into himself so a past-future version of himself can save the future-past.
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Jul 16, 2015 09:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:"In mid-April 2011, the Chinese government prohibited on TV, films, and novels all stories that contain alternate reality or time travel. This is a good sign for China. These people still dream about alternatives, so you have to prohibit this dreaming. Here, we don’t need a prohibition because the ruling system has even oppressed our capacity to dream. Look at the movies that we see all the time. It’s easy to imagine the end of the world. An asteroid destroying all life and so on. But you cannot imagine the end of capitalism." wait... prohibiting alternate realities is a good thing?
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Jul 16, 2015 09:22
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Shima Honnou posted:They did do something different though, Judgment Day never happens and the whole timeline got hosed up in Genisys to the point that John Connor was never even born and instead of implanting Sarah Connor with the savior of mankind, Kyle Reese implants a message into himself so a past-future version of himself can save the future-past. NOT MY DIFFERENT.
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Jul 16, 2015 09:26
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Xenomrph posted:
Actually, TWD is successful because of Sunk Cost Fallacy on a massive scale.
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Jul 16, 2015 09:57
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Uncle Wemus posted:wait... prohibiting alternate realities is a good thing? It's good that people still believe in alternate realities. The fact that the government is cracking down on them shows that these dreams still retain some power. Enough to pose a threat. In countries like the US, people do not really believe in alternate realities. That's what Genisys is about : we travel to three different points in time, but all three are merely different modes of perceiving the same capitalist system. The 'future war' serves as a metaphor for what's happening in 1984, and 1984 serves as a metaphor for what's happening in 2017. And, of course, the film is altogether about our lives in 2015. The film is very smart in how it uses metafictonality. Sarah is a Terminator fan who draws fanart of Arnold, Reese is inspired by the events of T1, even though they're 'fictional' - never actually happened.... CelticPredator posted:If they have to make a dumb Terminator sequel, give me something that hasn't been done yet in the series with new concepts and ideas. Not the same old John Connor bullshit over and over. Tired of it. You haven't understood any of the concepts and ideas in the currently-existing films. You don't need novelty.
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Jul 16, 2015 11:00
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mr. stefan posted:Actually, TWD is successful because of Sunk Cost Fallacy on a massive scale.
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Jul 16, 2015 11:04
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Xenomrph posted:Could you elaborate? The show sucks so bad but for some reason you're invested because, gently caress, you've put this time into it. Why not.
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Jul 16, 2015 11:05
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Xenomrph posted:I'd watch a Band of Brothers-style miniseries set during the Future War that follows a squad of Resistance soldiers around as they blow poo poo up and fight robots in 2029. Have them all be a bunch of otherwise original characters (no Kyle Reese or John Connor or whatever), maybe have some of them have varying opinions of John Connor as a leader and whether they like the man or not, etc. Maybe the squad captures an endoskeleton and reprograms it and it becomes a part of the squad, but that's just the endoskeleton fanboy in me talking. We got hints of this in TSCC and might have got a bit more of it in the third season (that never happened  ). Only instead of John Connor being the distant leader of the resistance, he's a nobody who happens to have a shitload of advanced knowledge of Skynet who has to prove himself.
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Jul 16, 2015 11:31
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CelticPredator posted:The show sucks so bad but for some reason you're invested because, gently caress, you've put this time into it. Why not. 
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Jul 16, 2015 11:43
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Nobody can explain that, because it makes no sense. (show is the worst)
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Jul 16, 2015 11:45
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CelticPredator posted:Nobody can explain that, because it makes no sense. There's nothing wrong with that, you know. 
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Jul 16, 2015 11:50
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Yvonmukluk posted:We got hints of this in TSCC and might have got a bit more of it in the third season (that never happened Or TSCC's ending explains how Connor 'came out of nowhere' to lead the resistance to victory.
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Jul 16, 2015 12:08
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Martman posted:I just find it really hard to believe that the humans could ever not get completely poo poo on in the Future War without the robots being idiots. There is a scene in T1 where the T-800, still being of relatively sound mind and body, gets in a tanker truck, rolls it down a ramp and about a block of street afterwards, and doesn't manage to catch up to a running Sarah Connor.
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Jul 16, 2015 13:28
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Milky Moor posted:Or TSCC's ending explains how Connor 'came out of nowhere' to lead the resistance to victory. Well actually that's what he's saying - Connor came out of nowhere and then leads the resistance to victory thanks to all his knowledge of Skynet. The ending of TSCC works perfectly well as a series finale, but it was SUPPOSED to run for another season, which presumably would have shown exactly that happening. Meanwhile, in the past (heh), Sarah Connor and Ellison would have been going up against the infant Skynet and its corporation. Dunno how they would have actually ended it at the end of season 3, though. Maybe the Resistance teams up with John Henry, defeats Skynet, gets ahold of some Skynet secrets, then John travels back in time to the present and gives Sarah that knowledge she needs to destroy Skynet in the present, and prevent the war from starting. (Alternatively... John completely FAILS at being a Resistance leader, despite his destiny. Gets everyone killed. But does manage to learn some Skynet secret, comes back in time to help Sarah defeat Skynet in the present.) Of course the other option is that John would have only stayed in the future for a couple of episodes, and then returned to the present. And so the future we briefly saw was meant to be an "It's a Wonderful Life" situation of showing a future-without-John-Connor. That's what is believed by people that reckon TSCC ended on a huge cliffhanger. But that totally sucks, so I greatly prefer to believe it was "This is how John becomes leader of the Resistance". (Not necessarily how he was always meant to become leader of the Resistance... just how ends up becoming its leader this time around.)
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Jul 16, 2015 14:00
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your evil twin posted:Of course the other option is that John would have only stayed in the future for a couple of episodes, and then returned to the present. And so the future we briefly saw was meant to be an "It's a Wonderful Life" situation of showing a future-without-John-Connor. I think that's definitely what they were going for given how TSCC time travel works (one future in constant flux, not alternate timelines/worlds per se). John would find John Henry and maybe come back to the present with the knowledge of how to repair Cameron or with Allison Young as well as more resolve to accept his destiny. quote:That's what is believed by people that reckon TSCC ended on a huge cliffhanger. But that totally sucks, so I greatly prefer to believe it was "This is how John becomes leader of the Resistance". (Not necessarily how he was always meant to become leader of the Resistance... just how ends up becoming its leader this time around.) The ending as-is, even with that interpretation, still sucks. Too many unanswered questions - what happened to John Henry and Catherine Weaver? Is Cameron on the Turk's hardware or is she dead?
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Jul 16, 2015 14:15
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ruby idiot railed posted:There is a scene in T1 where the T-800, still being of relatively sound mind and body, gets in a tanker truck, rolls it down a ramp and about a block of street afterwards, and doesn't manage to catch up to a running Sarah Connor. There's also a scene where the T800 crashes his car into a brick wall at high speed after Reese slams on the brakes, and the cops immediately surround them. The T800 could easily have gotten out of the car and killed them right there without worrying about the cops’ bullets (it disappears when the cop checks the car a moment later) but instead it just goes back to the hotel. It clearly doesn’t care about being seen given the sequence in the police station later. I never understood why it ran off like that.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:25
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Electromax posted:There's also a scene where the T800 crashes his car into a brick wall at high speed after Reese slams on the brakes, and the cops immediately surround them. The T800 could easily have gotten out of the car and killed them right there without worrying about the cops’ bullets (it disappears when the cop checks the car a moment later) but instead it just goes back to the hotel. It clearly doesn’t care about being seen given the sequence in the police station later. I never understood why it ran off like that. Wasn't that scene followed by the self-repair scene? I understood it to be damaged so it didn't want to go after Sarah or take on the cops when it's not at a 100%.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:32
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Electromax posted:There's also a scene where the T800 crashes his car into a brick wall at high speed after Reese slams on the brakes, and the cops immediately surround them. The T800 could easily have gotten out of the car and killed them right there without worrying about the cops’ bullets (it disappears when the cop checks the car a moment later) but instead it just goes back to the hotel. It clearly doesn’t care about being seen given the sequence in the police station later. I never understood why it ran off like that. It's just a horror movie thing.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:33
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I saw Genisys last weekend and as a result I decided to rewatch T1 and T2 and man do those movies hold up and are still great. Some weird things I noticed near the end of the movies were: The pipe bomb that Reese puts into the Terminator’s rib cage thing at the end of T1. I saw that and it didn’t really seem believable that some makeshift bomb made from cotton swabs and ammonia could blow up the hyperalloy combat chassis that was fully armored even at close range. In the chase scene that bomb looked really weak and couldn’t even blow a pothole or hinder the Terminator on that motorcycle. It just seemed like too much of a stretch for it to be able to blow the Terminator apart especially since we just watched it get out of a much bigger explosion with just its flesh seared off and no real damage. The end of T2 when Arnie says that he has to terminate himself. I get the reason is because of the whole end skynet/cyberdyne thing but when I thought about it there’s a big plothole. His mission was to protect John Connor and listen to his orders and that was pretty much it. The whole time he stated that other things were not part of the mission and would avoid it if it was tactically dangerous. He only decided to do them because John ordered him to. So at the end when he was going to self terminate and John ordered him not to go, he all of sudden can disobey the order? Future John definitely didn’t program that part into him, and he didn’t even show any signs of having programming in his system to destroy cyberdyne and all traces of terminators. Those were missions that John ordered him to help with so technically if John ordered him to stay, shouldn’t he have to? Or is it because the mission is over that he’s no longer bound by John’s orders. The only thing I can assume is that the learning chip being enabled made him make that decision but it’s weird to have him learn that he needs to terminate, I don’t think a computer learning chip would make it learn to destroy itself.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:54
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Sandele posted:The pipe bomb that Reese puts into the Terminator’s rib cage thing at the end of T1. I saw that and it didn’t really seem believable that some makeshift bomb made from cotton swabs and ammonia could blow up the hyperalloy combat chassis that was fully armored even at close range. In the chase scene that bomb looked really weak and couldn’t even blow a pothole or hinder the Terminator on that motorcycle. It just seemed like too much of a stretch for it to be able to blow the Terminator apart especially since we just watched it get out of a much bigger explosion with just its flesh seared off and no real damage. It's probably due to budget constraints, making those explosions during the chase scene really big would have cost a lot and would have made those shots a lot more elaborate.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:02
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Electromax posted:There's also a scene where the T800 crashes his car into a brick wall at high speed after Reese slams on the brakes, and the cops immediately surround them. The T800 could easily have gotten out of the car and killed them right there without worrying about the cops’ bullets (it disappears when the cop checks the car a moment later) but instead it just goes back to the hotel. It clearly doesn’t care about being seen given the sequence in the police station later. I never understood why it ran off like that. By this point he was already damaged, minorly so but still. He had to do minor repair work on his malfunctioning arm (I wonder if it's the same one as in Genesis...) and remove his damaged human eye. He knew where Sarah was going to be, so he was in no hurry to get to her.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:24
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Grendels Dad posted:It's probably due to budget constraints, making those explosions during the chase scene really big would have cost a lot and would have made those shots a lot more elaborate. Oh true I forgot about the budget, it still amazes me that Terminator was made on such a low budget of only $6.4 million. (this probably explains why the stop motion scene at the end looks ridiculous because animating that properly probably costs a ton of money)
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Jul 16, 2015 15:37
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Xenomrph posted:But that doesn't explain the show's widespread critical acclaim. People like soap operas. No matter what anybody tells you, you could put The Thorn Birds in different clothes on every season, every year, and people would eat it up because melodrama is universal.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The future war is actually insanely boring, unless you include the Salvation/Genisys twist that something's wrong and things aren't happening the way they 'should'. Except Terminators are actually frightening and they kill people. That spider walker bot murdered a whole platoon of people in like one second. I think a future war movie could be awesome if they played it right. Fragmented fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 16:26
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Sandele posted:So at the end when he was going to self terminate and John ordered him not to go, he all of sudden can disobey the order? He learned that somethings are more important than his mission much as us humans can learn to ignore instinct. This is also the reason Skynet only built one T-1000 and has all other units set to read-only mode.
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Jul 16, 2015 16:43
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I think you have to at least introduce believable doubt early on that the war won't unfold like we expect it to from T1/T2, where Skynet has to lose to get to the point where it resorts to time travel wackiness in the first place. For instance, I didn't feel much tension in Genisys watching the Future War stuff until the moment John Connor gets pounced on by Skynet-bot just as Reese is going back in time. Watching random good guys I don't know and aren't invested in emotionally get blown up by something powerful isn't innately scary.
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Jul 16, 2015 16:45
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The best thing they can do is completely ditch all the WWIII Global Thermonuclear War poo poo and re-imagine an updated take of the Book of Revelation that's relevant to the 21st century. Which seems kind of like what they're going for with the Terminator reboot. Skynet as hegemon via global capitalism, Google and, say, Uber. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 16:52
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