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Wait, what are the gray and red tribes?
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# ? Jul 16, 2015 21:15 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:41 |
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Alien Arcana posted:Wait, what are the gray and red tribes? Someone who's read more SSC than I have can probably give a more accurate account of this, but you know in America, states that tend to vote Republican are called "red states" and states that tend to vote Democrat are called "blue states"? Well, some Less Wrong people, in their drive to feel superior, begin to refer to Republicans and Democrats as "the red tribe" and "the blue tribe" in partial analogy to a pair of feuding chariot teams in Ancient Rome whose conflicts caused riots and affected politics. Then Scott decided he and his friends were beyond the left/right axis and created the term "gray tribe" to classify the magical smart unclassifiable people like him and the Homestuck Fascist.
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# ? Jul 16, 2015 21:35 |
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I thought "gray tribe" was just supposed to be Libertarians.
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# ? Jul 16, 2015 21:57 |
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point of return posted:I thought "gray tribe" was just supposed to be Libertarians. Pretty much yeah.
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# ? Jul 16, 2015 22:03 |
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"The intersection of libertarians and monarchists" is both 1. the perfect description of neoreaction, 2. an oxymoron. It is awesome. If a novelist had come up with this poo poo, we'd call him a fantasy writer with too much imagination.
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# ? Jul 16, 2015 22:05 |
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The Vosgian Beast posted:There's a difference between smart and evil. Why are they mutually exclusive properties? Come to think of it the fact that brilliant people can also be utterly evil and do horrendous things was the #1 theme of the book series Yudkowsky wrote his obnoxious fanfic opus for and the whole uber-rationalist crowd seem not to have noticed. E: it's not just a theme, the wand shop guy spells it out in plain English early in the very first book. E #2: gently caress you phone autocorrect Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 22:55 on Jul 16, 2015 |
# ? Jul 16, 2015 22:52 |
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Cingulate posted:"The intersection of libertarians and monarchists" is both 1. the perfect description of neoreaction, 2. an oxymoron. Someone did just that in the 1960s.
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# ? Jul 16, 2015 22:58 |
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Here's a pretty good paper about some of the ways that Libertarianism conflicts with liberal democracy and has a history of monarchism. Walter Block, libertarian hero, explains why this all fine and dandy, just like how he explained child labor, slavery, and extortion are all good things.
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# ? Jul 16, 2015 23:15 |
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I mean, you could easily have a monarch who takes a completely libertarian approach. There's nothing about the structure of government under monarchy that precludes having very lax laws (except about poaching a deer in the King's forest)
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 00:05 |
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I like to imagine Moldbug listens to this song and mourns for the utopian form of society it's talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUpTJg2EBpw
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 00:16 |
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There isn't anything inherently bad about a monarchist government that necessarily precludes democracy. What DE morons want is someone who is literally like Hitler, Mussolini, insert fascist dictator here (Admiral Horthy comes to mind). They just won't admit it.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 00:43 |
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Theoretically a purely benevolent monarchy is the perfect form of government. This perfect Philosopher King would have only the best interests of the people at heart. Of course, then reality sets in and such a person isn't around. So some form of democracy is the best bet.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 01:44 |
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neonnoodle posted:I mean, you could easily have a monarch who takes a completely libertarian approach. There's nothing about the structure of government under monarchy that precludes having very lax laws (except about poaching a deer in the King's forest) A monarch is a private landowner and his state a corporation. It's not "taxes", it's rent. Like in any proper capitalist society, weak businesses fail and strong ones survive. (Please ignore the fact that 75% of businesses fail within two decades, and that failure in a libertarian state equals civil wars, massive public health crises, and (gasp!) revolutions seeking to destroy glorious Libertopia and replace it with unnatural statist nonsense like "voting" and "rights" for the inferior peasants.)
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 01:48 |
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Then Scott decided he and his friends were beyond the left/right axis and created the term "gray tribe" to classify the magical smart unclassifiable people like him and the Homestuck Fascist. Never understood why Scott thinks that NRx is not classifiable as either right or left. Even Moldbug had no illusions about that and was proud of being as right as right can be.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 01:54 |
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Dr Pepper posted:Theoretically a purely benevolent monarchy is the perfect form of government. This perfect Philosopher King would have only the best interests of the people at heart. I'm waiting until one of them goes full Plato's Republic and starts demanding the exile of artists from society. I already saw one of them describe Qin Shi Huang as someone who "Found a good solution to the problem of destabilizing intellectuals"
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 02:35 |
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Curvature of Earth posted:A monarch is a private landowner and his state a corporation. It's not "taxes", it's rent.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 02:44 |
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The Vosgian Beast posted:I'm waiting until one of them goes full Plato's Republic and starts demanding the exile of artists from society. Are you loving kidding me. Who looks at Qin and goes 'Yeah, those were excellent ideas?'
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 02:49 |
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Night10194 posted:Are you loving kidding me. Who looks at Qin and goes 'Yeah, those were excellent ideas?' Someone who brags about the results of their online IQ and Myers-Briggs tests.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 03:19 |
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Well it's partly a "hee hee this is so NAUGHTY and TRANSGRESSIVE" thing that they can get away with because it was done by a man who died thousands of years ago instead of a more modern tyrant.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 03:45 |
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Someone who brags about the results of their online IQ and Myers-Briggs tests. Mods?
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:03 |
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Dr Pepper posted:So some form of democracy is the best bet. Actually, I think it's possible to have a good government without democracy. ahead. I've put far too much thought into this. While NRx take "remove democracy" to mean "concentrate all power in the individual head of state", I go the other way: extend the conventions of the civil service that normally govern all the lower-level non-appointed workers up to the very top. The civil service is actually more democratic than elected officials: you can't attend a family reunion without tripping over a dozen people who work in the government, be they secretaries, civil engineers, teachers, and so on. But you can go your whole life without ever meeting a single elected official. Teachers have a drat good idea what methods for teaching kids work and don't work, and they know drat well what resources they need to do so. Remove elected officials from the picture and let those who are most qualified set policies. Same goes for civil engineers. Oppression of minorities? (After all, traffic engineers did think it was a great idea to bulldoze predominantly black and poor neighborhoods to build the national highway system.) There are already a shitload of investigative, auditing, and regulatory departments and committees aimed at individual parts of the government. Give their enforcement powers actual teeth and let them do their job. We could also instate affirmative action, to the point of full-blown quotas. Forcing the government to accurately reflect the demographics of the people it's governing would go a long way towards fixing institutional prejudice. Won't race/gender/religious/etc staffing quotas fill the government with incompetents? Actually, no. Provided they actually like their own jobs, the vast majority of people can be made competent by providing sufficient training and resources. The "best and brightest" make up a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the workforce. Providing the right conditions workers need to thrive in their jobs is vastly more important than hiring the best people. There, I just put more thought into how a functional post-democracy government would work than dozens of wannabe monarchists.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:18 |
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Merdifex posted:Never understood why Scott thinks that NRx is not classifiable as either right or left. Even Moldbug had no illusions about that and was proud of being as right as right can be. It's not that they aren't right-wing, it's that they don't fit into the cultural category Scott associates with typical Republicans, ie, they're educated, not necessarily religious, don't drive pickup trucks.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:33 |
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Curvature of Earth posted:Actually, I think it's possible to have a good government without democracy. ahead. I've put far too much thought into this. IIRC Moldbug essentially believes that civil servants run the government in practice already, and that's the problem.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:37 |
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Curvature of Earth posted:Actually, I think it's possible to have a good government without democracy. ahead. I've put far too much thought into this. Engaging too much in this line of thinking might be a bit ofa derail, but that sounds like how the USSR and many other Socialist/Communist countries used to do things. They were complete failures, as "Dark Enlightenment" "thinkers" will be eager to point out.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:37 |
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John Big Booty posted:Maybe in one or two very specific instances, but not usually. You need to think more like a libertarian, to whom all of existence can be boiled down to property rights and transactions. Actually, don't do that.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:40 |
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Silver2195 posted:It's not that they aren't right-wing, it's that they don't fit into the cultural category Scott associates with typical Republicans, ie, they're educated, not necessarily religious, don't drive pickup trucks. You mean they don't signal being right-wing, and thus aren't really right-wing. Here's Scott's whole thing. He doesn't base his bullshit categories on what these people actually think and write about. He can't even bring himself to criticize them anymore. He's basically abandoned his lengthy refutation of NRx ideas, too.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:51 |
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Night10194 posted:Are you loving kidding me. Who looks at Qin and goes 'Yeah, those were excellent ideas?' Well, Mao Zedong did .
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 07:17 |
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Tiberius Thyben posted:Well, Mao Zedong did . And the whole 'send all the young students to go do hard labor in the mountains' idea didn't work out much better, if I recall.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 07:19 |
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Night10194 posted:And the whole 'send all the young students to go do hard labor in the mountains' idea didn't work out much better, if I recall. I dunno, it seems like everybody who manages a particular sort of job ought to have at least some experience with the reality of it.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 07:28 |
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Pope Guilty posted:I dunno, it seems like everybody who manages a particular sort of job ought to have at least some experience with the reality of it. It works out a bit worse when you exile them permanently and demand they never return to their education because any kind of college will bring 'bourgeois sentiment'. I am not an expert in Chinese history, but from what I do know, if it was a policy relating to winning a revolutionary war, Mao was a genius. If it was a policy related to economic and cultural development after the war, he was nuts. Night10194 has a new favorite as of 07:37 on Jul 17, 2015 |
# ? Jul 17, 2015 07:34 |
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StandardVC10 posted:You need to think more like a libertarian, to whom all of existence can be boiled down to property rights and transactions. [edit] To be paid immediately with only purestrain gold.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 07:35 |
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Night10194 posted:It works out a bit worse when you exile them permanently and demand they never return to their education because any kind of college will bring 'bourgeois sentiment'. That's weird, I generally associate MLism with favoring educated administrators. OTOH my understanding of Maoism generally is much weaker.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 07:43 |
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Pope Guilty posted:That's weird, I generally associate MLism with favoring educated administrators. OTOH my understanding of Maoism generally is much weaker. Maoists tend to know very little about Mao, too, so you aren't alone.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 07:56 |
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Tiberius Thyben posted:Maoists tend to know very little about Mao, too, so you aren't alone. really? my experience with real life maoists is that they tend to have everything said or done by the guy completely memorized and are very happy to tell you all about it in great detail, whether you want them to or not
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 08:34 |
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coyo7e posted:Really? I never really delved into it, my first brush with it was in a copy of Snow Crash that came boxed with a tank videogame I got in the early 90s.. Do you have any sources I can check out, I'd be really interested thanks! The game would be Spectre VR for the Macintosh, which I worked on.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 09:06 |
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eschaton posted:The game would be Spectre VR for the Macintosh, which I worked on. poo poo, I played the hell out of that. Honored to speak to you.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 09:56 |
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Someone who's read more SSC than I have can probably give a more accurate account of this, but you know in America, states that tend to vote Republican are called "red states" and states that tend to vote Democrat are called "blue states"?
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 10:40 |
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Dr Pepper posted:Theoretically a purely benevolent monarchy is the perfect form of government. This perfect Philosopher King would have only the best interests of the people at heart. Curvature of Earth posted:Actually, I think it's possible to have a good government without democracy. ahead. I've put far too much thought into this. If you do not understand this, it's you: you're the reactionary.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 12:26 |
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Gawker did something super-lovely yesterday, so be prepared for reactos being smug as hell about it.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 12:38 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:41 |
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Gawker did something super-lovely yesterday, so be prepared for reactos being smug as hell about it.
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# ? Jul 17, 2015 13:09 |