Crusader Kings II: When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings II: When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan

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DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Anonononomous posted:

I'm thinking of trying to continue my game as a vassal of Byzantium and rebelling later. How viable would that be?

P sure that king-tier characters cannot swear fealty, and don't the Byzantines get free title revocation? It sounds either impossible or dangerous.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 15:29

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# ? May 30, 2024 12:17

upgunned shitpost: Jan 21, 2015

DStecks posted:

P sure that king-tier characters cannot swear fealty, and don't the Byzantines get free title revocation? It sounds either impossible or dangerous.

You can form a kingdom under an emperor, Sicily is a really nice one... but getting the viceroyalty for that duchy is an absolute bitch. Calabria is a decent place to start if you want to go that route.

Technically, you become a despot, not a king and as long as your push through Muslim held Sicily or the off-brand dukes, avoiding Lombardia, it's not all that difficult. Don't form duchies 'til you have to and you can balance out the emperor by marrying into the Karlings for alliances.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 15:38

Anonononomous: Jul 1, 2007

DStecks posted:

P sure that king-tier characters cannot swear fealty, and don't the Byzantines get free title revocation? It sounds either impossible or dangerous.

I think I'm only a duke right now. I'm only on the second character and hadn't formed the Kingdom of Venice. But I guess I'll see when I load up the game and promptly lost the war.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 15:54

Another Person: Oct 21, 2010

Tercio posted:

Just went up against this dude in a holy war for one of my duchies.

He was absolutely unstoppable, even when outnumbered 2 to 1. I'm loving the way combat works now.

I was wondering why you were losing at 2:1 at first, and then I noticed "Narrow Flank", aka, the best combat modifier in the game by a mile. No wonder he sent you packing. Combined with Leading the Centre, and boy oh boy do you have a hell of a commander right there. Just put him in the middle, watch him melt the enemy no matter their size, and then get an ungodly flanking bonus.

Seriously though, Battlefield Terrain Master is probably the most valuable combat modifier in the game.

e; also, under byzantium, isn't the emperor not allowed to revoke titles freely which he did not grant out himself as viceroyalty? so if you form one, you keep it unless you lose it through normal means. so yeah, as someone above mentions, form sicily and you should be golden

Another Person fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jul 18, 2015

# ? Jul 18, 2015 16:07

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Anonononomous posted:

I think I'm only a duke right now. I'm only on the second character and hadn't formed the Kingdom of Venice. But I guess I'll see when I load up the game and promptly lost the war.

Is Venice not a king-tier title any more? Or is this on a pre-1066 bookmark, because I've never tried pre-1066 Venice (since that used to be the most boring imaginable game until they rejiggered the tech progression).

# ? Jul 18, 2015 16:14

lurksion: Mar 21, 2013

DStecks posted:

Is Venice not a king-tier title any more? Or is this on a pre-1066 bookmark, because I've never tried pre-1066 Venice (since that used to be the most boring imaginable game until they rejiggered the tech progression).

No it's definitely king tier at least in the Old Gods bookmark.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 16:25

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Well, the last Pope was a pretty bad guy, no arguments there...

But did you guys really enjoy the legal drama of it all enough to dig up the Pope before him, too?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 17:02

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

They probably dug up the wrong one first a decided to run with it.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 17:16

Popoto: Oct 21, 2012; miaow

drat you chinese ambassador, what have you done to my dog! :qq:

# ? Jul 18, 2015 17:45

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Subjugated the Abbasids. Next stop becoming saoshyant, I have the piety built up I just need to crush this 50k independence revolt...

# ? Jul 18, 2015 17:59

Synnr: Dec 30, 2009

Can someone link the old thread? I went back to play After the End 0.5 and its crashing when it starts to load the main menu. I think I had the same problem in 0.3, and someone gave me a solution for it there. I got no idea whats up.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 18:40

Anonononomous: Jul 1, 2007

lurksion posted:

No it's definitely king tier at least in the Old Gods bookmark.

If you start at the Charlemagne start, you can have an ambition to form the Kingdom. But you need a bunch of prestige and to collect 2 duchies first.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 18:43

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Weavered posted:

Haven't had to do this myself for a while, but as far as I remember you'll need to convert to Manicheanism first, then be converted to the Zoroastrinism heresy by the Zoroastrinism version of a bishop researching cultural tech.

Khans and Chieftans dont have this option

# ? Jul 18, 2015 18:47

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Synnr posted:

Can someone link the old thread? I went back to play After the End 0.5 and its crashing when it starts to load the main menu. I think I had the same problem in 0.3, and someone gave me a solution for it there. I got no idea whats up.

If you're playing 0.5 proper, make sure your game's rolled back to pre-HL, as there's still a bit of compatching going on for the current version of CK2.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 18:48

Synnr: Dec 30, 2009

Ofaloaf posted:

If you're playing 0.5 proper, make sure your game's rolled back to pre-HL, as there's still a bit of compatching going on for the current version of CK2.

I don't have that particular DLC, is there a particular version of CK2 I should have or some such? I just grabbed the github version, if that matters.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 18:52

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Synnr posted:

I don't have that particular DLC, is there a particular version of CK2 I should have or some such? I just grabbed the github version, if that matters.

Even if you don't have the DLC, the current patch still won't be compatible with the mod, and the github version is probably being heavily worked on and won't work smoothly with either 2.3.6 or 2.4. Your best bet is probably to either wait until the compatibility patch is done or go get the latest stable version and roll back to 2.3.6 using Steam Properties-Betas.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 18:55

Shnooks: Mar 24, 2007; I'M BEING BORN D:

So what's the consensus on the new DLC? Worth getting? I'll probably get it regardless

# ? Jul 18, 2015 19:13

Popoto: Oct 21, 2012; miaow

Shnooks posted:

So what's the consensus on the new DLC? Worth getting? I'll probably get it regardless

-*my opinion*- with patch 2.4.0 eh maybe, a bit broken as a horde. With the beta patch 2.4.2.? Yes definitely. Playing as a horde is fluid and fun

# ? Jul 18, 2015 19:22

TaurusTorus: Mar 27, 2010; Grab the bullshit by the horns

Shnooks posted:

So what's the consensus on the new DLC? Worth getting? I'll probably get it regardless

It is my favorite DLC since old gods.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 19:28

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

I started a game at the Charlemagne bookmark, and has anybody else noticed a significant number of totally black CoA's?

Also, from at least the Mongols bookmark on, the south of Sri Lanka appears to be wasteland by mistake. :v:

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:33

Tehan: Jan 19, 2011

When I'm pillaging as the nomads, sometimes I get 20 gold each time, sometimes I get 100, and I can't really tell what determines it. I dug through the files and found this:

code:

					if = {
						limit = {
							location = {
								owner = {
									character = FROM
								}
							}
						}
						wealth = 100
					}
					if = {
						limit = {
							NOT = {
								location = {
									owner = {
										character = FROM
									}
								}
							}
						}
						wealth = 20
					}

Can someone please translate?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:41

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

The syntax for what ought to be a simple if/else statement is making my eyes bleed.

As for what it does, that depends on what character = FROM means.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:43

Saith: Oct 10, 2010; Asahina...
Regular Penguins look just the same!

I dunno, i think it might be saying that if the holding is yours, you get 100 but if its someone elses, you get 20. Don't quote me on that, though.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:45

Tehan: Jan 19, 2011

Saith posted:

I dunno, i think it might be saying that if the holding is yours, you get 100 but if its someone elses, you get 20. Don't quote me on that, though.

That's what I thought, but it seems to vary based on something else. I was getting 100 gold a pillage whether it was an owned province or just being held in an ongoing war. Then my character died and the new guy is now getting 20 a pop in both scenarios.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:47

Party In My Diapee: Jan 24, 2014

I think it means that if you own the county yourself you get 100, if someone else owns it you get 20. Paradox forums are talking about a way to console yourself to become a nomad with the new beta, but no one says what the command actually is :eng99:

Anyone know?

Edit: Beaten, and wrong.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:47

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Saith posted:

I dunno, i think it might be saying that if the holding is yours, you get 100 but if its someone elses, you get 20. Don't quote me on that, though.

That is pretty much what it is saying, yes. "location" means the province, and FROM is the character using the pillage decision, so if you own the county where the target holding is then you gain 100, and if you don't then it's twenty.

edit: if the holding you are pillaging is tribal, then you get something like half of both these figures, and apparently something ELSE is going on too? That scope chain is really weird, I get what they're trying to do but I think they did it wrong somehow.

Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jul 18, 2015

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:49

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

Tehan posted:

That's what I thought, but it seems to vary based on something else. I was getting 100 gold a pillage whether it was an owned province or just being held in an ongoing war. Then my character died and the new guy is now getting 20 a pop in both scenarios.

While it depends on the owner, I think it isn't just whether or not you own it. The FROM tag makes me think it has to do with culture or some other attribute of origin. I have no real idea how Paradox's scripting system works though.

e: nm.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:49

Tehan: Jan 19, 2011

Just conquered Siwistan, and pillaging the locations gets 20 gold apiece. Ditto next door in Aror, which I don't own. With this character's father, in both scenarios he was getting 100.

Edit: It just changed to 100 again. I have no idea what's going on.

Edit edit: It might be based on the wars you're in? It switched back to 20 when I started conquering Mansura, and then back to 100 when the war ended.

Tehan fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 18, 2015

# ? Jul 18, 2015 20:53

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Is it deliberate that you can't expel the Jews anymore unless you're a king?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:06

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Tehan posted:

Edit: It just changed to 100 again. I have no idea what's going on.

I have a loony theory based on my read of that decision code. Is your character leading an army or otherwise, somehow, not at their capital?

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:07

Frida Call Me: Sep 28, 2001; Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time

DStecks posted:

Is it deliberate that you can't expel the Jews anymore unless you're a king?

Probably, yes. It was a free 550 gold every time you expelled them for counts that started with jews. Now it's not a money printing machine until you've got the titles for it.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:11

Frida Call Me: Sep 28, 2001; Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time

Tehan posted:

Just conquered Siwistan, and pillaging the locations gets 20 gold apiece. Ditto next door in Aror, which I don't own. With this character's father, in both scenarios he was getting 100.

Edit: It just changed to 100 again. I have no idea what's going on.

Edit edit: It might be based on the wars you're in? It switched back to 20 when I started conquering Mansura, and then back to 100 when the war ended.

You pillage for 20 when you're at war and 100 when you're not.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:12

Tehan: Jan 19, 2011

Dallan Invictus posted:

I have a loony theory based on my read of that decision code. Is your character leading an army or otherwise, somehow, not at their capital?

Pretty sure I get what you're hinting at here, and it looks like you're dead right. If my character is not leading an army, or is leading an army in the province being looted, the value is 100. If he's leading an army anywhere else, it's only 20.

I wonder if that's the intention. It does make a certain degree of sense but I don't think it's been documented anywhere.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:13

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Tehan posted:

Pretty sure I get what you're hinting at here, and it looks like you're dead right. If my character is not leading an army, or is leading an army in the province being looted, the value is 100. If he's leading an army anywhere else, it's only 20.

I wonder if that's the intention. It does make a certain degree of sense but I don't think it's been documented anywhere.

I'm pretty sure it's not the intention (and assuming it isn't, that's an easy enough fix). What that code actually does (or, more accurately, the scope block from settlement_decisions I looked at where that code is) is change the loot amount based on whether the character directly owns the province they are currently IN, rather than whether they own the province they are looting.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:27

TacMan: Aug 8, 2002; Vert used Hyperbeam,
It's super effective!

El Mole

Is there anything stopping you from holding infinite counties and having the barony level titles vassals directly to you? Clans don't seem to care about anything except completely empty land, you don't have a demesne limit, and the empty holding slots still seem to count towards population even if they aren't completely empty.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:33

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

DStecks posted:

P sure that king-tier characters cannot swear fealty, and don't the Byzantines get free title revocation? It sounds either impossible or dangerous.

You can. I just started a game at the 1066 bookmark and swore fealty to the Byzantines as the king of Croatia to check.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jul 18, 2015

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:35

Tehan: Jan 19, 2011

Dallan Invictus posted:

I'm pretty sure it's not the intention (and assuming it isn't, that's an easy enough fix). What that code actually does (or, more accurately, the scope block from settlement_decisions I looked at where that code is) is change the loot amount based on whether the character directly owns the province they are currently IN, rather than whether they own the province they are looting.

Oh, I see. That makes sense. I'll go chuck a bug report up on the Paradox forums.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:36

Mr.Morgenstern: Sep 14, 2012

DStecks posted:

P sure that king-tier characters cannot swear fealty, and don't the Byzantines get free title revocation? It sounds either impossible or dangerous.

King-tier characters can only swear fealty to their de jure emperor. So Afghanistan could swear fealty to the Persian Emperor, but France can't.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:38

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Mr.Morgenstern posted:

King-tier characters can only swear fealty to their de jure emperor. So Afghanistan could swear fealty to the Persian Emperor, but France can't.

I think the "I AM A KING!" modifier prevents them from swearing fealty even if you are their De Jure liege;

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:44

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# ? May 30, 2024 12:17

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Broken Cog posted:

I think the "I AM A KING!" modifier prevents them from swearing fealty even if you are their De Jure liege;

The modifier will (usually) keep them from accepting if you ask. But even if THEY ask the game will only let them ask if you're their Dr jure liege.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 21:47

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