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I just powered through about 30 pages of this thread, and pretty sad I missed the nostalgia trip. I still have an Opteron 170 system that I've been tempted to part out for a now while because high quality DDR sticks go for a ridiculous premium on eBay. I still use an ancient Compaq Presario R3000 laptop with a 1.6GHz Athlon 64 chip (running WindowsXP 64-bit!) that I use as an VPN/RDP box because the keyboard and screen are great. 15.4" 16:10 Matte Screen that does 1920x1200. It's a better screen than most laptops ship with 11 years later. Too bad it weighs 10 pounds. sauer kraut posted:They gonna be kicked out of the billionaire's club and drop out of the Fortune 500. Take Two Interactive is worth more than AMD now So when I was powering through, and around 20 pages back where people were hopeful about Zen, someone mentioned the stock price was all the way down at $3.50. I had to fact check that . . . and wow $1.87 with a 1.45B Market Cap. I guess Zen really is their last chance. I can't imagine anyone would want to buy them since all their value is in the cross-licensing agreement with Intel.
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Jul 17, 2015 09:45
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Chuu posted:I guess Zen really is their last chance. I can't imagine anyone would want to buy them since all their value is in the cross-licensing agreement with Intel. I actually think that right now they've got a bit of breathing room on the CPU front. Intel hasn't delivered anything more than marginal process improvements since Sandy Bridge, they've just been milking reliability increases and eating into their overclock headroom. How much faster is an OC'd Devil's Canyon than the equivalent OC'd Sandy Bridge, like 10? 20% tops? And Intel has run into the physical limits of our current photolithography technique. They straight up can't do their "tock" shrinks anymore. And they're not really improving their IPC much either - the only thing that's really noticeably improving are the iGPUs. If Zen gets AMD up into the ballpark of Haswell, or even Sandy Bridge, they'll have a bit of breathing room while everyone figures out what to do in the post-Moore's Theory world.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:16
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re: AMD nostalgia chat, any interest in a Craputer thread, or are we having that thread right here?  I just decided to dust off a craptop with an old AMD V140 which is more or less a bottom-of-the-line mobile chip on the Phenom architeecture, single threaded @ 2.3GHz. It was a replacement from Compaq for a laptop with the NVIDIA chip failure thing. I imagine this is what an Athlon XP would feel like nowadays. I used to run it with an SSD and Lubuntu until I needed to borrow the SSD for another PC. I just realized that getting it running would probably be a good use for some crap-tier 64GB SSDs I have sitting around. I was wondering what in the world I would do with those. e: 7% slower than a single-core Athlon 64 3800+. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 01:20
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Would AMD get more people on board with slightly better than sand perf at stock with monstrous headroom, or much less headroom but slightly better than Haswell?
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Jul 18, 2015 02:06
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FaustianQ posted:Would AMD get more people on board with slightly better than sand perf at stock with monstrous headroom, or much less headroom but slightly better than Haswell? A full Zen SOC--with HBM, GPU, and CPU all on the die--may be AMD's one big shot for OEMs to poo poo their pants and buy them in truckloads to make cute little gaming-grade PCs and not-comically-pathetic mini workstations. That's assuming they pull it off, of course.
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Jul 18, 2015 02:33
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Paul MaudDib posted:I imagine this is what an Athlon XP would feel like nowadays. I have a E-3xx nano PC from foxconn that I use as another VPN-only computer. It feels exactly like my Opteron 170 (about equivalent of a 2GHz Athlon64 x2).
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Jul 18, 2015 02:40
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Chuu posted:I have a E-3xx nano PC from foxconn that I use as another VPN-only computer. It feels exactly like my Opteron 170 (about equivalent of a 2GHz Athlon64 x2). Speaking of which, what was the problem with Socket 754? They discontinued that pretty much as soon as they launched it. I remember my dad being seriously butthurt about buying into Socket 754 only to have 939 supplant it like 6 months later, at a huge cost increase with only a ~3-5% performance improvement. He was (and rather remains) a rabid AMD fanboy though so he sucked it down. At this point I think he's still running Phenom IIs and just obstinately refusing to upgrade rather than buying an Intel.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:12
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The Athlon x4 860K is okay.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:20
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:The Athlon x4 860K is okay. When compared to the G3258, a processor that's 30% cheaper, it generally falls into the range of being 5-25% slower. So 30% more expensive on average and something around 15% slower in total. It's not hideous for budget builds, it's just not particularly fast or particularly good value. Or even particularly low-power given its heritage as an overgrown laptop processor. If you could get it for $40 it'd be OK. I do have a weak spot for the Athlon 5350 for light server applications, though (since it implements the AES-NI instruction set). I would be really satisfied with mine if Ubuntu's xhci_hcd drivers didn't poo poo themselves every time I plugged in a USB 3.0 device. It's apparently some kernel problem, but I can't manage to find a version that actually works. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 03:31
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I meant for that guy who refuses to buy Intel at all. I wouldn't settle for less than Intel anything at this point in time *, though I'd prefer the S/T chips only because you lose like very performance using those compared to the power-chugging equivalents. Plus you stop having to give a poo poo about putting expensive coolers in your case  *(my home server is going to change from an AM1 5350 to an LGA1150 C226 Xeon E3-1265L because they finally sold a low wattage part on Newegg and due to me breaking the pins on my gaming motherboard I will also use it for gaming)
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Jul 18, 2015 03:44
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Paul MaudDib posted:Speaking of which, what was the problem with Socket 754? They discontinued that pretty much as soon as they launched it. I think I mentioned this a while back, but Socket 754 had truly AWFUL chipsets and boards.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:45
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:I meant for that guy who refuses to buy Intel at all. I wouldn't settle for less than Intel anything at this point in time *, though I'd prefer the S/T chips only because you lose like very performance using those compared to the power-chugging equivalents. Plus you stop having to give a poo poo about putting expensive coolers in your case I told him to buy a G3258 and a Z97 PC Mate back when you could get that combo from MicroCenter for $80+tax but he wouldn't listen.
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Jul 18, 2015 03:47
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Paul MaudDib posted:I told him to buy a G3258 and a Z97 PC Mate back when you could get that combo from MicroCenter for $80+tax but he wouldn't listen. 
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Jul 18, 2015 03:50
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:He can also still use an AMD GPU. Those things actually last, unlike Nvidia's non-flagships NVIDIA is masterful at putting just enough memory to suffice for like 1-2 years on their non-flagship cards. Then you're back on the treadmill. I ran a 7850 since late 2012, then a 7950 (aka R9 280) since late 2014. And honestly my 280 is doing pretty good considering that I'm now gaming at 4k/60hz - Titanfall in 4k at medium settings is just fine. I spent the same amount of money on each of those cards - $150. Although I really wasn't pleased with how all the particle effects TF2 has added over the years ground the framerates down to poo poo at 900p on my 7850. But that's mostly because it's a 7 year old game running on an engine that dates back to 1996, so I don't really fault the card that much. He does use AMD GPUs in his media PC and probably elsewhere. I think I remember seeing a 6950 laying around the living room a year ago, which I suspect he might have used for media encoding. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 03:56
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Really, really hope AM1 is not dropped because there is some honest potential for it. It'd be great medium for Zen and even K12. I'd love to build an android minibox with ooph behind it for cheap, the 5350 is almost overkill for Android TBH. I know, buy a stick, it's cheaper, etc. But the allure of an Android machine that won't choke on the better games and apps is great.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:14
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It was just a way to use up all the Kabini chips that didn't sell. I'm not even sure Beema or Carrizo can even be used on it since they're far more capable than Kabini. They did make the best $80 builds though 
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Jul 18, 2015 04:25
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FaustianQ posted:Really, really hope AM1 is not dropped because there is some honest potential for it. It'd be great medium for Zen and even K12. I'd love to build an android minibox with ooph behind it for cheap, the 5350 is almost overkill for Android TBH. I know, buy a stick, it's cheaper, etc. But the allure of an Android machine that won't choke on the better games and apps is great. Sorry. AM# sockets are dead, all the new poo poo, APU and CPU, will be on FM3.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:30
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They just renamed FM3 to AM4.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:34
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Thank you for the correction, I missed that.
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Jul 18, 2015 04:50
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I at least hope AMD can do cheap Mini-ITX builds with Zen or K12 then. I know there was some disinterest in getting K12 to a socketed platform, but can't ARM chips be made fairly cheaply? In theory, wouldn't a K12 mini-itx build be insanely cheap?
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Jul 18, 2015 06:10
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:It's more likely we're going to see around-the-ballpark-of Haswell performance with less headroom but lower power usage.
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Jul 18, 2015 10:49
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Lisa Su:quote:http://wccftech.com/amd-confirms-taping-finfet-chips/ 
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Jul 18, 2015 14:00
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:The former is maybe doable but the latter is unrealistic given they have to work with either GF or TSMC's 16nm process vs Intel's 14nm process. If they can pull off Haswell-ish performance than somewhat higher power usage is OK so long as they price their chips 10-20% less than comparable Intel CPU's. Which would be a big step up for their ASP's and bottom line IMO. Haswell is 22nm, not 14nm. You really think it's unrealistic for a 16nm to compete with 22nm?
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Jul 18, 2015 19:29
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Guess we'll find out in a year. not much happening until then.
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Jul 19, 2015 00:58
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FaustianQ posted:Haswell is 22nm, not 14nm. You really think it's unrealistic for a 16nm to compete with 22nm? They have to compete with what is out in the market at the time not with what Intel had in the past. And no I wouldn't be shocked if Intel's 22nm turns out to be better over all than TSMC's 16nm.
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Jul 19, 2015 01:32
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Haswell is 22nm but Zen will be competing with Skylake and that is 14nm. I thought they were using GloFo's Samsung-based 14nm FinFET, unless I completely missed something? As I understand it, Samsung's process is already quite mature.
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Jul 19, 2015 04:01
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I thought they were using GloFo's Samsung-based 14nm FinFET, unless I completely missed something? As I understand it, Samsung's process is already quite mature.
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Jul 19, 2015 04:24
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You're both right, got it mixed up. I still wouldn't bet on GF's 14nm being as good as Intel's 14nm. Samsung's process is mature for memory and low power SoC's. For a high power CPU like what AMD is trying to do I don't think there is any information on it.
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Jul 19, 2015 04:27
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FWIW Intel had trouble putting out chips beefier than Core M until 1/3 into this year. The process tech might just be that much closer, especially now that Cannonlake is looking at a mid-2017 release if that doesn't slide again.
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Jul 19, 2015 08:07
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I really hope AMD sticks around and remains some kind of competitor to Intel/nVidia so we don't all get completely hosed by a consumer market monopoly.
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Jul 19, 2015 17:23
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It's only the CPU side that has the weird X86 licensing issue with Intel. Someone would buy up the GPU portion and compete with Nvidia.
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Jul 19, 2015 22:43
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#waitingforzen
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Jul 20, 2015 02:15
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Haswell is 22nm but Zen will be competing with Skylake and that is 14nm. Yet the original assertion was that Zen 14nm is going to have rough parity as Intel's Haswell 22nm, not that Zen would have parity with Skylake. The hope is that AMD can manage some kind of 10-20% price advantage while being 90-95% the processor Skylake is.
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Jul 20, 2015 09:18
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:He can also still use an AMD GPU. Those things actually last, unlike Nvidia's non-flagships Is this supposed to be a sick burn or an actual benefit lol
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Jul 20, 2015 15:13
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:Is this supposed to be a sick burn or an actual benefit lol
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Jul 20, 2015 15:15
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FaustianQ posted:Yet the original assertion was that Zen 14nm is going to have rough parity as Intel's Haswell 22nm That is close enough to be a good selling product if they price it right. EDIT: \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ AMD has said Zen has 40% better IPC than the last *dozer design. Which is impressive if true and that is why it keeps getting compared to Haswell in terms of IPC since that is about what it sounds equal to. The thing we don't know is if that number is for a single thread or if its including the benefit you get from SMT. If its for a single thread than it should do well against Haswell and Skylake at similar clockspeeds. If it includes SMT then that is not very good at all. You'd be looking at Sandy Bridge-esque single thread performance. In late 2016. Hardly terrible performance but it'd mean Zen would only be competitive with Intel's mid range at best. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 15:21
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:No, process tech wasn't part of that discussion, it was pure performance in terms of IPC. It'll be CPU design that'll effect that metric. If the process turns out to be good for AMD they'll be able to get similar or higher clocks with a somewhat higher TDP so performance-wise it could end up very close to Haswell and within arm's reach of Skylake.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:29
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:No, process tech wasn't part of that discussion, it was pure performance in terms of IPC. It'll be CPU design that'll effect that metric. If the process turns out to be good for AMD they'll be able to get similar or higher clocks with a somewhat higher TDP so performance-wise it could end up very close to Haswell and within arm's reach of Skylake. I think we're talking past each other a bit, but nevertheless agree on fundamentals. A good Zen chip will be 3.6ghz 95w TDP for an i5 competitor with 90% the performance and 85% the cost? Zen is supposed to have a quick follow on with Zen+, corroborating your assertion that even AMD is not confident in getting all the performance they want out of Goflo 14nm first gen higher performance silicon. Hopefully Zen+ during late 2016 early 2017 closes the performance gap if Zen itself lags behind a bit.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:30
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:If its for a single thread than it should do well against Haswell and Skylake at similar clockspeeds. If it includes SMT then that is not very good at all. You'd be looking at Sandy Bridge-esque single thread performance. In late 2016. Hardly terrible performance but it'd mean Zen would only be competitive with Intel's mid range at best.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:43
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:AMD GPUs tend not to suddenly explode. As much as they rebrand the GPUs themselves are surprisingly durable while I haven't had an Nvidia card, flagship or not, last more than 1.5 years The only study I'm aware of with a somewhat decent sample size says the opposite. It's potentially skewed by them only using ASUS cards but it beats anecdotes.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:49
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