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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:I do this and I've never climbed higher than silver because like if you are capable of making that play, the enemy is just as skilled as you and are likely to make a counter play unless you are very very ahead. There's a reason you are matched with them. There was a great Sabrmetrics kind of post recently on reddit that discussed which lanes carry hardest, and over a large number of games, it was found that Mid and Top usually carry, while getting ADC and support fed wins you less games. If you main jungle, just camp top or mid and ignore bot unless they're pushed to tower with no wards. Pretty sure you can get to gold just by doing that. Also, only play one or two champions that you know how to play really well. Team comp doesn't matter until Plat.
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Jul 19, 2015 06:09
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Gibberish posted:There was a great Sabrmetrics kind of post recently on reddit that discussed which lanes carry hardest, and over a large number of games, it was found that Mid and Top usually carry, while getting ADC and support fed wins you less games. If you main jungle, just camp top or mid and ignore bot unless they're pushed to tower with no wards. Pretty sure you can get to gold just by doing that. You're thinking of this post (which everyone should look at): https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3dq76o/some_champion_statistics/
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Jul 19, 2015 06:20
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Bonus points if you notice a recurring trend of the skills of the champions that carry hardest...
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Jul 19, 2015 06:22
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built in sustain
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Jul 19, 2015 06:25
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Self-sustain and strong AoE?
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Jul 19, 2015 06:27
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KamikazePotato posted:You're thinking of this post (which everyone should look at): The analysis is fairly incomplete. The biggest problem is that getting a gold lead of X and winning the game with a gold lead of X are not at all independent (he alludes to this in the footnotes, and admits that he doesn't have a good way to account for it). There's also major sample size issues (500k ranked games probably isn't enough to conclude anything about Yorick or Galio, for example). Basically, at best it tells you things that already should be common knowledge, and at worst, it tells you things that are probably wrong (the table with carry coefficient versus role, which has massive correlation/causation issues).
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Jul 19, 2015 06:43
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KamikazePotato posted:You're thinking of this post (which everyone should look at): The combined "carry coefficient" of the carry and support is much higher than that of the solo lane so - wouldn't bot actually be the best lane to camp? I mean ultimately, it depends on lane matchups and everything, but I don't think you should ignore bot. I could be interpreting the post wrong 
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Jul 19, 2015 06:45
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Where you gank and if you camp a specific lane as a jungler has like a bajillion different variables. There is literally no way to say "this lane is the best lane to camp every game" or whatever. You can talk about guidelines on how to jungle but seriously, it's just too complex to boil down easily at all.
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Jul 19, 2015 06:52
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Firebert posted:The combined "carry coefficient" of the carry and support is much higher than that of the solo lane so - wouldn't bot actually be the best lane to camp? I mean ultimately, it depends on lane matchups and everything, but I don't think you should ignore bot. I could be interpreting the post wrong The carry coefficient isn't added together and doesn't have any relevant bearing on the data because supports, as a rule, fail to scale well with gold, which is what it models. Getting 75 to 150 extra gold per kill on the support does not do much for you because each of those gold pieces has less value on you in general, compared to somebody else getting a slice of the pie. Think of it this way: If a gold piece a mid gets has a value of 5, a top's GP is a value of 4, and the ADC and jungle's GPs are valued at 3, a support's GP is valued at 1. A support with 5000 GP lead has a 'game impact' value of 5000, but a mid with that kind of lead has a game impact value of 25000 instead. Would you rather stuff gold into the mid's pockets as a jungler, or split it between you, the ADC AND the support?
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Jul 19, 2015 06:56
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if i'm not mistaken about how that dude rigged their statistics (which i could be, given how vague the description was), the carry coefficient is determined by the champion's gold vs. the enemy champion of the same role's gold. ergo, it's asking if junglers win games when they have more gold at a certain point than the enemy jungler does. it's not hard to see why their carry coefficient would suck, then; when a jungler has more gold than the enemy jungler, that implies that they've been stealing kills/creeps from lanes rather than giving the credit to the laners. so the stats aren't really talking about "carry factor" at all, they're only saying that it's generally dumb to vacuum gold away from the laners. i guess that redditor is some kind of huge idiot, then. bummer
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Jul 19, 2015 07:09
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DolphinCop posted:if i'm not mistaken about how that dude rigged their statistics (which i could be, given how vague the description was), the carry coefficient is determined by the champion's gold vs. the enemy champion of the same role's gold. ergo, it's asking if junglers win games when they have more gold at a certain point than the enemy jungler does. I'd like to see the raw data, myself. It's possible he made that mistake, but also possible he didn't.
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Jul 19, 2015 07:13
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exethan posted:built in sustain ding ding ding
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Jul 19, 2015 07:49
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Here's why the 'carry coefficient' has causality problems: Top lane is largely populated by relatively passive champions with little kill pressure. Top laners have less kills and less deaths than mid/ADC, and there's less variation here because it's a less interactive lane. So conditional on getting a fairly significant gold lead of a fixed among you should assume that a top laner has a larger skill differential than a mid/ADC. This is presumably the reason that top lane has the largest carry coefficient. In short, when assessing impact, both P(getting a gold lead of at least X) and P(winning conditional on getting a gold lead of at least X) matter, and the carry coefficient only takes one of those into account. As well, winning or losing bot lane is dictated more by the support early than the ADC. So getting a gold lead of a fixed size early is a weaker signal of the ADC's actual skill level than for mid/top. It should then not be surprising that the carry coefficient is correspondingly lower.
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Jul 19, 2015 08:07
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blah_blah posted:The analysis is fairly incomplete. The biggest problem is that getting a gold lead of X and winning the game with a gold lead of X are not at all independent (he alludes to this in the footnotes, and admits that he doesn't have a good way to account for it). There's also major sample size issues (500k ranked games probably isn't enough to conclude anything about Yorick or Galio, for example). Yorick is especially hard to pin down because he's a huge lane bully. If he shuts down the opponent then he's naturally going to have more gold than them. He might not carry with gold so much as he shuts down carries who need gold. It might not be yay our Yorick got fed, but yay our Yorick shut down their top.
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Jul 19, 2015 08:14
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The data does match up in macro scale to the current meta of the game, though. Everyone pretty much agrees that Mid and Top have the biggest impact post-laning in solo queue and ADC players are at one of the weakest points in their history. Most have been nerfed down into mediocrity. Think to yourself, now that Kalista has been semi-dumpstered, which ADC is really "strong"? Lucian is dead, Graves got nerfed, Sivir is picked for utility and is " okay" but not a huge carry. Vayne is a huge risk/reward charry and Trust just farms until late game. These days I'm starting to wonder if the people who said that ADCs woint be played Borland at all before long were right, without getting to much "sky is falling" about it. I mean, I know they won't, but I could see why someone might think that.
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Jul 19, 2015 08:39
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Higsian posted:Yorick is especially hard to pin down because he's a huge lane bully. If he shuts down the opponent then he's naturally going to have more gold than them. He might not carry with gold so much as he shuts down carries who need gold. It might not be yay our Yorick got fed, but yay our Yorick shut down their top. Despite this narrative Yorick's place at the top of the list is almost certainly due to small sample size. Gibberish posted:The data does match up in macro scale to the current meta of the game, though. Everyone pretty much agrees that Mid and Top have the biggest impact post-laning in solo queue and ADC players are at one of the weakest points in their history. Most have been nerfed down into mediocrity. Think to yourself, now that Kalista has been semi-dumpstered, which ADC is really "strong"? Lucian is dead, Graves got nerfed, Sivir is picked for utility and is " okay" but not a huge carry. Vayne is a huge risk/reward charry and Trust just farms until late game. These days I'm starting to wonder if the people who said that ADCs woint be played Borland at all before long were right, without getting to much "sky is falling" about it. I mean, I know they won't, but I could see why someone might think that. ADC is in a pretty bad place in competitive (both diversity/strength-wise) but in soloq you can pick one of Sivir/Jinx/Ashe basically every game and you'll be fine. They still have winrates significantly higher than most of the contested mid/top picks and work pretty decently in most comps, so your team will probably be in a good place with any one of those three.
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Jul 19, 2015 09:20
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blah_blah posted:Despite this narrative Yorick's place at the top of the list is almost certainly due to small sample size. I phrased it badly. My point was that in addition to a small sample size there's also a complicating correlation so it's even harder to figure out his carry potential.
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Jul 19, 2015 09:35
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Gibberish posted:There was a great Sabrmetrics kind of post recently on reddit that discussed which lanes carry hardest, and over a large number of games, it was found that Mid and Top usually carry, while getting ADC and support fed wins you less games. If you main jungle, just camp top or mid and ignore bot unless they're pushed to tower with no wards. Pretty sure you can get to gold just by doing that. I camp those lanes anyway cause less wards and those lanes can blow a fed carry up way easier than a carry can blow a tank up.
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Jul 19, 2015 09:47
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blah_blah posted:Despite this narrative Yorick's place at the top of the list is almost certainly due to small sample size. Can anyone remember the last time an ADC actually got any significant buff, not counting reworks and bugfixes (Ashe, Trist, MF maybe)? Maybe when Lucian got a mini-rework and became OP for one month? Ashe and Sivir are also played not only for their damage but also utility. It's a bad time to start maining ADC.
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Jul 19, 2015 10:28
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Gibberish posted:Can anyone remember the last time an ADC actually got any significant buff, not counting reworks and bugfixes (Ashe, Trist, MF maybe)? Maybe when Lucian got a mini-rework and became OP for one month? Jinx had her passive apply to inhibitors... A year or so ago. And really that's a buff that should have been part of the base package so I'm not sure it should count. Otherwise I have no idea on this end. Topic of ADCs, is Draven still good? (For an ADC, I mean.) I remember being decent enough with him when I played him before, and I was hoping to add someone to my Jinx/Cait/Kog lineup for Marksmen, but given all the talk about ADC nerfs I'm not sure what shape he's in now.
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Jul 19, 2015 11:01
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Roland Jones posted:Jinx had her passive apply to inhibitors... A year or so ago. And really that's a buff that should have been part of the base package so I'm not sure it should count. Otherwise I have no idea on this end. Draven is fine so far as ADCs go. He can still snowball uncontrollably and hard carry if you can get enough early kills.
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Jul 19, 2015 11:03
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hey i kinda dont play anymore but is this a real build now
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Jul 19, 2015 14:19
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Gibberish posted:Can anyone remember the last time an ADC actually got any significant buff, not counting reworks and bugfixes (Ashe, Trist, MF maybe)? Maybe when Lucian got a mini-rework and became OP for one month? Sivir's mana pool/QoL/ult buffs basically sent her to the top of the soloq winrate list and pick/ban status in competitive. She was pretty underwhelming before that. Vayne got pretty decent buffs + BorK buff and went from one of the lowest soloq winrate champs to being in the top third (which is pretty amazing for Vayne) Graves came back into the meta as a result of damage buffs and was considered a top 3 ADC pick for awhile at the beginning of S5 Urgot came into the pro meta as a result of repeated buffs over time but definitely isn't OP in soloq Varus became a viable pro midlaner as a result of buffs Slightly before the Lucian rework you're referring to, Tristana became super OP between a combination of small buffs and ADC itemization changes
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Jul 19, 2015 14:24
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Tonetta posted:hey i kinda dont play anymore but is this a real build now Saw this yesterday, it gives you an absurd midgame powerspike when you finish sated devourer because suddenly you're hitting people for like 250 damage every other autoattack. Sadly it kinda sucks late because you're not itemising for pure AP to burst people with and trying to play TF as an ADC is a great way to observe how you'll get killed by their malphite or renekton walking up to you and punching you till you die.
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Jul 19, 2015 14:41
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I think the game is pretty well balanced right now. ADCs are strong late if they play right and solo laners have always been stronger than them
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Jul 19, 2015 17:11
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I have a problem. I can't stop playing Quinn. It all started when I took a month-long break from the game and when I came back I played her as a goof. Since then I'm averaging ~13/5/8 across a 10-4 record with her. I know she's bad. I can tell she's bad when I'm playing her. I just can't stop.
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Jul 19, 2015 18:56
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Nice. top lane?
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Jul 19, 2015 18:58
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exethan posted:I think the game is pretty well balanced right now. ADCs are strong late if they play right and solo laners have always been stronger than them Tons of people are also strong late game though, and most of them without the extreme lack of defenses, low movement speed, and lack of ability to focus priority targets. Most team fights where AD Carries go ham are ones in which the enemy team has blown their abilities on someone else already and are in a staggered retreat. In that situation the ADC can pick off people one by one while they're down on some CC, and even then that requires your team to have won with you plinking away at whatever high damage high tank high mobility character is barreling at you. It's not, like, super dire but endgame isn't an ADC hunting ground as much as it is an ADC executing animals wounded by their team while screaming and running back to the safari bus at the first sign of the enemy....ground. Also, the worst thing in the game is getting yelled at while you are winning the game. Like, chill. We are literally 20 seconds from winning.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:00
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Whats faster for grinding IP and XP, 5v5 or ARAM?
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Jul 19, 2015 19:01
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DJ Dizzy posted:What faster for grinding IP and XP, 5v5 or ARAM? Quitting while you're ahead.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:01
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exethan posted:Nice. top lane? That's the more absurd part, its all been ADC except for one 27/10/10 game against a nasus. That poor nasus...
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Jul 19, 2015 19:01
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blah_blah posted:Sivir's mana pool/QoL/ult buffs basically sent her to the top of the soloq winrate list and pick/ban status in competitive. She was pretty underwhelming before that. Sivir's last buff was more than a year ago Vayne hasn't been touched since before 4.16 Graves got nerfed back into mediocrity more recently than any buff he got (which was really more about Lucian getting nerfed) Urgot got one buff to his most useless ability, still sucks in general Varus isn't really an ADC anymore Trist rework was early this year, and she's still not exactly a standout ADC at all, just farms until late game and is somewhat useless before 25 minutes Itemization is whatever. Vayne got a small buff from the BoRK, others got nerfed from the IE 5% loss. I still say that ADC as a role is as weak as it's ever been and buffs have been incredibly rare compared to every other lane.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:04
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Schiavona posted:Quitting while you're ahead. 
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Jul 19, 2015 19:40
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KicksYouInHalf posted:I have a problem. I can't stop playing Quinn. It all started when I took a month-long break from the game and when I came back I played her as a goof. Since then I'm averaging ~13/5/8 across a 10-4 record with her.
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Jul 19, 2015 20:10
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Your best bet is to play the game mode you enjoy the most. If you'd rather ARAM for your exp and IP, go for it. My only advice is to not focus on how much IP you're getting and just play the game having fun. Next thing you'll know you'll have enough IP for that thing you wanted! Then you do it again while having fun. If you're not having fun, see the advice already given.
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Jul 19, 2015 20:15
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so Jungle Jax is pretty cool http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2208983854/40898001?tab=overview
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Jul 19, 2015 20:56
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SaffronKit posted:Your best bet is to play the game mode you enjoy the most. If you'd rather ARAM for your exp and IP, go for it. My only advice is to not focus on how much IP you're getting and just play the game having fun. Next thing you'll know you'll have enough IP for that thing you wanted! Then you do it again while having fun. yeah but tier three runes cost like four champions for a single page gently caress you, riot
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Jul 19, 2015 21:42
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A lot of people seem to make the mistake of confusing that ADCs require gold to function with "ADCs scale well with gold." They aren't really the same thing.
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Jul 19, 2015 22:58
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rabidsquid posted:A lot of people seem to make the mistake of confusing that ADCs require gold to function with "ADCs scale well with gold." They aren't really the same thing. Well, they do scale well with gold. It's just that their starting point is so far back that the gold just gets them up to competence, rather than indestructible death god.
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Jul 19, 2015 23:04
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Drone_Fragger posted:Saw this yesterday, it gives you an absurd midgame powerspike when you finish sated devourer because suddenly you're hitting people for like 250 damage every other autoattack. Sadly it kinda sucks late because you're not itemising for pure AP to burst people with and trying to play TF as an ADC is a great way to observe how you'll get killed by their malphite or renekton walking up to you and punching you till you die. so its awful? I think that the hat should be zhonyas anyways but if it's doing a massive 250 damage every other auto
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Jul 19, 2015 23:10
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