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Judging from the JSA tie-in, the OMAC robots are a shameless rip-off of the Fury from Alan Moore's run on Captain Britain. And if they're even half as loving terrifying as the original, they should make for great villains.
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Jul 22, 2015 03:18
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Die Laughing posted:The book is worth reading just for the characters talking to eachother. Ralph talking to Firehawk, Superman and his mom, Ollie and Flash, Ollie and Hal, everything with Batman, even Firestorm's out of nowhere death had a good emotional punch. I was always partial to Kyle Rayner's inner monologue about why Superman is smarter than Batman and him just agonizing over how loving crazy it is to be this young buck GL who almost instantly got to be on the JLA.
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Jul 22, 2015 04:00
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Cyphoderus posted:Judging from the JSA tie-in, the OMAC robots are a shameless rip-off of the Fury from Alan Moore's run on Captain Britain. And if they're even half as loving terrifying as the original, they should make for great villains. Sort of but not really https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMAC_(Buddy_Blank)
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Jul 22, 2015 04:21
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Alright this is a weird question, but I'm trying to dig up some panels of Ben Grimm breaking nintendo controllers? I think this was from a book sometime in the 90s, I think he's trying to play with Franklin Richards but his big rock hands keep breaking the controllers. It's one of those emotional Ben Grimm "THIS MAN...THIS MONSTER!" moments. I don't know where I would have seen this as I have never really read Fantastic Four comics, so maybe it was in another comic somewhere? At least...I'm like 90% sure it was Ben. I'm going to feel loving insane if it turns out to have been Strong Guy or something.
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Jul 22, 2015 04:22
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Die Laughing posted:Brad Meltzer is actually a really great dude, and isn't embarrassed by silver age comics in the least. He just wrote a lovely mystery that was propped up by some really great character moments. The book is worth reading just for the characters talking to eachother. Ralph talking to Firehawk, Superman and his mom, Ollie and Flash, Ollie and Hal, everything with Batman, even Firestorm's out of nowhere death had a good emotional punch. I agree with all of this. The mood and tone and dialogue was amazing. Even the setup of a superhero murder mystery was good. But there are poor moments that are never redeemed because of the really poor ending. If the payoff was good, and I'm not sure it could be, I doubt the dumb scenes would be as memorable.
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Jul 22, 2015 05:38
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Chinaman7000 posted:If the payoff was good, and I'm not sure it could be, I doubt the dumb scenes would be as memorable.
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Jul 22, 2015 06:24
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Infinite Crisis was responsible for quite possibly the stupidest retcon ever. I believe they've since changed it but originally Jason Todd came back to life because Superboy Prime punched reality really hard.
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Jul 22, 2015 12:09
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He punched a story so hard it became non-canonical.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:30
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He's the hero we all wish we could be.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:33
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HitTheTargets posted:He punched a story so hard it became non-canonical. He also ripped the arm off of Risk and then at a later story removes the other one.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:35
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I agree that Identity Crisis really could have been cool, as it has a lot of neat parts to it. The problem is that so many little things could have been changed and the end result would have been a lot better. Dr. Light could have snuck on the watchtower, found Sue going over the personnel records because she wanted to send out birthday cards and just savagely beat her. He's still a threat, because he knows everyone's secret ID, and he's a douchebag because he beat the hell out of a powerless woman, more or less because he can. No need for rape. Light was never going to be a badass, but he's slightly less disgusting now. Deathstroke taking out the whole JL in two minutes is pretty poo poo, but it could still be fixed. Instead of taking out Flash with a stationary sword, have it be some kind of proximity mine. Lantern forgetting he has a power ring is pretty blatantly stupid, but if Slade were to catch him off guard and make him the priority 1 target, then OK, maybe. But the fact that it takes 7 people to restrain him, at least one of which has enhanced strength is pretty stupid. I get it, he's a threat, but make it a little more believable. I think even the whodunnit could be salvaged, if the motive was only slightly changed. Jean has been spending a lot of time around Sue, and she just won't shut up about 'how great her marriage is' and 'how great it is to have someone that loves her' and 'being part of the super hero family that is the Justice League' and 'Oh, by the way, I'm pregnant' (I think). And Jean goes off the deep end. Why can't she be happy again? Why doesn't anyone love her anymore? Why does Sue get all the good things happening to her? All she ever did is get attacked by some D lister. She shouldn't have even been on the watchtower in the first place. And then, just to gently caress with things even more and get back at the man who left her, she uses his tech and frames him for the murder. Forget the 'accident' angle, this was pre-meditated, petty jealousy. It's not that far from what we got. I agree the whole "what letter?" angle is old hat, but when you have a handful of magic users, a few mind readers, and at least one guy who can talk to the dead and even knows who did it, but none of the above can figure this out because of plot reasons, you might have to fall back on old things that worked in the past. The idea of a murder mystery, taking place with super heroes, written by a guy who writes mysteries, is a really great idea. There were just so many missteps that trip it up. I think it's less bad for what it is, and more disappointing for what it could have been. muscles like this? posted:Infinite Crisis was responsible for quite possibly the stupidest retcon ever. I believe they've since changed it but originally Jason Todd came back to life because Superboy Prime punched reality really hard. Yes, that was the original way they brought him back, but IIRC the current explanation is that Talia brought him to a Lazarus pit after swapping the body.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:56
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The only real enjoyment I get out of Identity/Infinite Crisis are as lead ups to 52.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:37
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"Sue Dibny is murdered while preparing to tell her husband she's pregnant" is never going to be a good story because it relies on making GBS threads on a character for shock value. There's not really any way you can get around that. It's a bad story and a bad end to the character not just because it is viscerally unpleasant but because it is lazy as gently caress.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:06
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Lazy but effective for large swaths of the readers.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:20
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SirDan3k posted:Lazy but effective for large swaths of the readers. Not really except in the barest sense. It could have been literally any character in that role. (And in fact they do basically the same thing to Lois in Injustice.) It's just plain bad writing. It's 'effective' in that it featured a pregnant woman being murdered and her husband being sad but that is something that will get a response in any situation. It's pretty telling that a lot of defense of it boils down to "I didn't know these characters but it was sad." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 19:27
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Yeah that's what I mean anybody that just picks it up will get sad no matter what their level of familiarity is. It can be thrown onto any character in any book and you are going to get emotional investment from 80% of people. It's kicking the dog, killing the cop three days from retirement, orphaning the child, it's just a blunt instrument that works on getting reader involved but requires no effort on the writers part. It's poo poo but it's poo poo that people lap up.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:51
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I feel like starting off a character-heavy story that ended up being a lot of people's first exposure to the DCU or even comics altogether with an act guaranteed to get emotional investment regardless of if they knew the character before is a pretty good idea, though? Plotting-wise? "Should it have been Sue Dibny" or "should they have added a rape in later" are different conversations (P.S. the answer is no in both cases) but, y'know... start a murder mystery with a murder that people will feel bad about. That is generally how they work.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:57
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Why is Superboy a dick in that event where he kills everyone? Like I'm sure there's a bunch of Silver Age comics where he's kinda a dick, but theoretically isn't he being raised by the same Pa and Ma Kent as normal Superman (that's a weird loving phrase "normal Superman")? I've avoided it because when it comes to superheros I've mostly read Marvel and everyone tells me Identity Crisis is poo poo. I'm also annoyed about DC's crossover naming schemes, since they just use like five words but in different orders. Crisis on infinite Earths Infinite Crisis Identity Crisis Final Crisis Infinite Identity Final Crisis of Infinite Identities Identified Infinity of Crisis, Finally
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Jul 22, 2015 20:10
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Skwirl posted:Why is Superboy a dick in that event where he kills everyone? Like I'm sure there's a bunch of Silver Age comics where he's kinda a dick, but theoretically isn't he being raised by the same Pa and Ma Kent as normal Superman (that's a weird loving phrase "normal Superman")? I've avoided it because when it comes to superheros I've mostly read Marvel and everyone tells me Identity Crisis is poo poo. He was trapped with Earth 2 Superman and Lois Lane along with Alexander Luther. He went insane while there and decided to punch. He was also not raised by Ma and Pa and instead raised in a world without superheroes. He was just a survivor of a destroyed world.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:16
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Skwirl posted:Why is Superboy a dick in that event where he kills everyone? Like I'm sure there's a bunch of Silver Age comics where he's kinda a dick, but theoretically isn't he being raised by the same Pa and Ma Kent as normal Superman (that's a weird loving phrase "normal Superman")? I've avoided it because when it comes to superheros I've mostly read Marvel and everyone tells me Identity Crisis is poo poo. Nope, actually he's a total good guy in Crisis on Infinite Earths. It's being in the Paradise dimension all that time that starts it. He's bitter that he lost his universe to save everyone else's and wants to recreate it. Alexander Luthor starts showing him how everyone else is loving up the universe he sacrificed everything to save, and turns him. Then he's kind of a moron and hurts and kills people because he doesn't know his own strength and it spirals from there.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:17
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Superboy Prime was not raised by the same Kents as every other Superman, he has a unique upbringing.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:20
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Aphrodite posted:Then he's kind of a moron and hurts and kills people because he doesn't know his own strength and it spirals from there. The point where that happens, I actually felt sympathetic towards him. He was being a jackass before, but something in his brain clearly broke once he realized what he'd done.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:22
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I thought he was angry because his world (and every one else's) got destroyed and the only world that survived was filled with heroes who were acting like jerks. From there he just got caught up in the moment until he fully embraced his evil side.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:37
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Madkal posted:I thought he was angry because his world (and every one else's) got destroyed and the only world that survived was filled with heroes who were acting like jerks. From there he just got caught up in the moment until he fully embraced his evil side. His first kill was before he reached that point. 
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Jul 22, 2015 20:40
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Madkal posted:I thought he was angry because his world (and every one else's) got destroyed and the only world that survived was filled with heroes who were acting like jerks. From there he just got caught up in the moment until he fully embraced his evil side. Which was really terrible writing. Was it the Blackest Night comic where it showed that Earth-Prime had been recreated and he got returned there? And then he spent all of his time complaining about DC comics on message boards?
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Jul 22, 2015 20:58
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Random Stranger posted:Which was really terrible writing.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:14
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Jesus gently caress, from what I'm hearing "Something Something Crisis" was even worse than it sounded before.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:32
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Skwirl posted:Jesus gently caress, from what I'm hearing "Something Something Crisis" was even worse than it sounded before.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:34
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Superboy was poo poo and had a poo poo home life apparently.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:37
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He had an okay home life, but his universe got destroyed by the Anti-Monitor back in the first crisis.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:41
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Yeah, he's supposed to be a somewhat tragic character -- dude is throwing around Pre-Crisis power levels in a Post-Crisis world; he doesn't mean to hurt anybody in that first fight, he's just lashing out and holy poo poo everyone is so fragile. Plus, it's important to remember that he was raised on Earth-Prime, where DC Comics are published. Nobody he's interacting with are, in his mind, really real -- they're loving comic book characters and how dare these badly-written assholes survive when his world, the only real world, got destroyed, and okay fine, if they're going to be lovely comics, he's just gonna write them better from now on. By force, if necessary. None of that really worked, but his transformation into self-parody as the personification of Fanboy Rage ended up being hilarious and great.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:57
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Opopanax posted:He had an okay home life, but his universe got destroyed by the Anti-Monitor back in the first crisis. As a resident of Earth-Prime, I do not remember that happening. So I would like to thank our universe's Superboy for punching that bit of reality out of existence. And, yes, making him a raging fanboy was a brilliant way to take it after Infinite Crisis was finished with him.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:58
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Secret Identity is an infinitely better Superboy Prime story than The Personification of Comics Self-Loathing.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:03
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Superboy Prime's story is one of those stories that seems really interesting and compelling when summarized but was utter crap to actually read.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:10
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Opopanax posted:He had an okay home life, but his universe got destroyed by the Anti-Monitor back in the first crisis. Was he not bullied for being a comic book nerd called Clark Kent in his own universe, or was that a retcon?
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Jul 22, 2015 22:14
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SirDan3k posted:Superboy Prime's story is one of those stories that seems really interesting and compelling when summarized but was utter crap to actually read. It sounds like poo poo when summarized too. I still feel cheated of a halfway decent explanation of why Superboy Prime started killing everyone, but I think that's because there isn't one.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:57
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Skwirl posted:It sounds like poo poo when summarized too. I still feel cheated of a halfway decent explanation of why Superboy Prime started killing everyone, but I think that's because there isn't one. He didn't mean to, he was lashing out, and everyone's reaction to an already somewhat unstable teenager in the midst of an emotional breakdown turning out to be so powerful he was to Superman what Superman is to them was "gently caress this kid, let's pile on more!" Understandably, since he'd just loving decapitated one of their friends in front of them, but still, holy poo poo, wrong idea. Like I said, he's supposed to be a tragic figure.
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Jul 22, 2015 23:04
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The original version of that page was going to have a shot of Pantha's severed head flying (a little more comically than it should have) past Red Star and Kid Wildebeest instead of the one with him looking at the blood on his hands going, "I didn't mean to do that."
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Jul 22, 2015 23:17
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Random Stranger posted:As a resident of Earth-Prime, I do not remember that happening. So I would like to thank our universe's Superboy for punching that bit of reality out of existence. You're not a resident of Earth-Prime because Superboy isn't in our universe. Earth-Prime is just a universe that looks a lot like ours up until Superboy starts existing, at which point it is obviously not ours. 
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Jul 22, 2015 23:26
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Are you saying that BOTH parallel universes and multiverses exist? Tell the physicists!
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Jul 22, 2015 23:33
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