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The discussion at hand is about fantasy recs and you throw out a list of sci-fi titles. Good job!
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Jul 22, 2015 21:54
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Even the Locke Lamora world has the elder race who disappeared mysteriously and left their cities behind. You could even go as far as to say Numenor in Tolkien's legendarium is the antecedent for fantasy and Atlantis in turn is the antecedent for the entire concept.
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Jul 22, 2015 21:56
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angel opportunity posted:I think what gets me about it is that First Law doesn't remind me of Song of Ice and Fire AT ALL. It's like he tried to take the grim "bad stuff happens to everyone" theme and feel, but hosed it up really bad and just totally botched the execution. The plot in Ice and Fire just plods along and you never know where it's going or what's going to happen, but it always feels real and deep and alive. In First Law, I felt just tiny glimmers of interesting things and people, and everything else felt like a paper facade, but the plot's meandering in First Law just felt like it killed the whole story for me, whereas in Ice and Fire it doesn't actually bother me. I think it comes down to the prose/writing/characters just being much better in every way in Ice and Fire, and the little plots that arise and resolve along the way on Ice and Fire being very compelling, where in First Law they just are not. ASOIAF is a standout work that has transcended the genre, it's hard to compare any other contemporary fantasy favorably to it. There's a reason the old joke was for people to recommend Martin to everybody, and that was before the budget-busting HBO adaptation came out. First Law definitely isn't ASOIAF but it does capture some of the same themes. The protagonists of the story aren't necessarily good guys, not everyone is guaranteed a happy ending, history is written by the victors, etc. Glokta is a very memorable and engaging character, perhaps as much or more so than any POV character in ASOIAF. Nobody's saying Abercrombie is a better writer than Martin (at least nobody that I've seen), but then not many writers in this genre are.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:03
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Evil Fluffy posted:Fantasy actually has an extremely common "ancient advanced civilization" trope that people confuse with post-apocalyptic since those civilizations tend to have ended due to horrific events and not just dying out. First Law, Stormlight, and a lot of others are guilty of it (some more than others). Yeah. "It's fantasy but it's actually our world's post-apocalyptic future" is a more specific trope and it's having its day again in recent releases.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:05
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Ornamented Death posted:The discussion at hand is about fantasy recs and you throw out a list of sci-fi titles. Good job! You're contributing nothing, gently caress off
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Jul 22, 2015 22:08
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angel opportunity posted:You're contributing nothing, gently caress off No.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:11
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Shab posted:What have you read that falls into this category that is not Gene Wolfe? As mentioned, Joe Abercombie's YA trilogy and Mark Lawrence's [TITLE] of Thorns are set in future earth's, but I also love love loved Richard Morgan's Land Fit For Heroes, but they are loving crazy so take that with a pinch of salt and from someone who read them gradually over two years and ended up loving them only after reading and thinking about them in the context of The Broken Sword and as possible sequels to the Envoy stuff he wrote. Also I'm saying that Abercrombie is better than Martin, and boy howdy angel opportunity take the proverbial chill pill.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:32
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Megazver posted:Yeah. "It's fantasy but it's actually our world's post-apocalyptic future" is a more specific trope and it's having its day again in recent releases. 
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Jul 22, 2015 22:34
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Evfedu posted:Also I'm saying that Abercrombie is better than Martin, and boy howdy angel opportunity take the proverbial chill pill. I'd argue that when both are at their best, Martin is the superior writer (though in fairness to Joe, Martin has decades more experience). However, Martin hasn't been at his best for a while, and Joe's best keeps getting better as he learns more about his craft.
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Jul 22, 2015 23:07
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Quick Aurora question: when they're setting up the colony, and the ship mentions days, is that Earth days or Aurora days? Is a day on Aurora always referred to as daymonth?
Junkenstein fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 23:11
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Ornamented Death posted:I'd argue that when both are at their best, Martin is the superior writer (though in fairness to Joe, Martin has decades more experience). However, Martin hasn't been at his best for a while, and Joe's best keeps getting better as he learns more about his craft. Agreed, haven't read the most recent 'Half a king' books. But his 3 books which follow the first law trilogy, and are kinda, semi-stand alone novels in the same world, each one gets better I thought.
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Jul 23, 2015 00:21
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I finished the second Max Gladstone book and moved right on to the third. I didn't know it, but I've been waiting a long time for a series that treats magic and religion as applications of contract law. Also, it was very refreshing to read a book where the religion and culture inspiration is drawn from the Aztecs (or incans? I should read up on that).
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Jul 23, 2015 01:03
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Eh, if you're going to recommend something to a GRRM fan, I'd pass on what was told to me, and that's to read the Malazan books. Just one book in I was still a little skeptical but now halfway through the sixth, it's exactly what I was looking for. There are a lot of common themes, even though Erikson's style is quite different and will take some getting used to. Hell, at this point I really think Erikson is the better writer.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:06
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Shab posted:Tell me more about how I don't read enough sf and fantasy by asking what titles that person was referring to, please. OK. Evfedu kicked off by implying that Wolfe's literary importance was due to having written a dying earth sf story with some fantasy elements. (He actually said post-apocalyptic, let's assume he was just being vague). This descibes The Book of the New Sun, its related stories, maybe "The Hero as Werwolf" and, I'm not sure what else, while ignoring literally everything else about Wolfe's writing. Also the fact that Wolfe's the only person ever to have done this. Ornamented Death named an extremely famous sf writer whose first book was a dying earth full of magic and a little sf. Then Shab and Meazver said that they had never heard of Clark Ashton Smith, Storm Constantine, John Crowley, Hugh Cook, M. John Harrison, or anyone else who's written far-future stories with sf and fantasy. So I was amazed that three people (not Ornamented Death) were posting without knowing anything about sf/f.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:41
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While we're on the topic, Fred Saberhagen, the guy behind all the awesome Berserker stories about huge AI warships just loving up the universe, also had a post-apocalyptic fantasy series focused around magic swords, with demons that were made out of radiation from the nuclear fallout. I want to say it was called the Book of Swords, the books were all short but I remember them being pretty good.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:54
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Junkenstein posted:Quick Aurora question: when they're setting up the colony, and the ship mentions days, is that Earth days or Aurora days? Is a day on Aurora always referred to as daymonth? Wasn't it like, 9 earth of days of day, and 9 of night? I though it was Aurora days.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:56
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House Louse posted:OK. Evfedu kicked off by implying that Wolfe's literary importance was due to having written a dying earth sf story with some fantasy elements. (He actually said post-apocalyptic, let's assume he was just being vague). This descibes The Book of the New Sun, its related stories, maybe "The Hero as Werwolf" and, I'm not sure what else, while ignoring literally everything else about Wolfe's writing. Also the fact that Wolfe's the only person ever to have done this. I think you read way, way too deep into those comments. Also, you missed my point, which was that Jack Vance popularized the dying earth story, not Gene Wolfe, as Evfedu indicated originally; I wasn't just randomly naming an author that has written that kind of story.
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Jul 23, 2015 02:08
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Evil Fluffy posted:e: First Law was a decent read but Abercrombie either wanted you to know the ending to major plots very early on or he's terrible at not making things obvious. The two most blatant were "rear end in a top hat grows up some, becomes king" and "inquisitor with horrible life/boss gets sweet revenge and massive emotional(and physical) support." If that's what you got from First Law, I feel like you missed the point. Your first spoiler is being subverted in that the rear end in a top hat who becomes king is being manipulated, has no claim to the throne other than a wizard pulling his strings, and ultimately has control over the kingdom only when the wizard agrees and your second is being subverted in that the inquisitor is there to show how West or Jezal go badly wrong when they hit real war. e: The Joe Abercrombie thread is over here, though, I suppose: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3293685
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Jul 23, 2015 03:20
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Has anyone read Vermilion by Molly Tanzer yet? It has great cover art, an interesting sounding description (see below), and a good write-up from io9. quote:Gunslinging, chain smoking, Stetson-wearing Taoist psychopomp, Elouise "Lou" Merriwether might not be a normal 19-year-old, but she's too busy keeping San Francisco safe from ghosts, shades, and geung si to care much about that. It's an important job, though most folks consider it downright spooky. Some have even accused Lou of being more comfortable with the dead than the living, and, well... they're not wrong. When Lou hears that a bunch of Chinatown boys have gone missing somewhere deep in the Colorado Rockies she decides to saddle up and head into the wilderness to investigate. Lou fears her particular talents make her better suited to help placate their spirits than ensure they get home alive, but it's the right thing to do, and she's the only one willing to do it. On the road to a mysterious sanatorium known as Fountain of Youth, Lou will encounter bears, desperate men, a very undead villain, and even stranger challenges. Lou will need every one of her talents and a whole lot of luck to make it home alive... From British Fantasy Award nominee Molly Tanzer comes debut novel Vermilion, a spirited weird Western adventure that puts the punk back into steampunk. I've been wanting to read more "weird west" so I think I'll get this, but I just wanted to see if anyone else has any thoughts. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 05:09
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Well, I saw it on the shelf at Better Read Than Dead and immediately wanted to buy it. Went in yesterday and seems someone already did.
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Jul 23, 2015 05:25
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House Louse posted:OK. Evfedu kicked off by implying that Wolfe's literary importance was due to having written a dying earth sf story with some fantasy elements. (He actually said post-apocalyptic, let's assume he was just being vague). This descibes The Book of the New Sun, its related stories, maybe "The Hero as Werwolf" and, I'm not sure what else, while ignoring literally everything else about Wolfe's writing. Also the fact that Wolfe's the only person ever to have done this. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3554972&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=266#post448043041 Evfedu mentioned "three modern fantasy trilogies I've read and enjoyed have all been post-apocalyptic earth settings with variable amounts of sci-fi vs magic. Gene Wolfe loomin' large over the 201X fantasy output." I wanted to know what authors Evfedu was referring to other than Gene Wolfe, which is unknowable to me unless I ask, because he/she is somebody whose mind I can't read. Jesus Christ. If you think you can pull my reading habits from that tiniest exchange then please continue to read into things that aren't there. Ben Nerevarine fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 05:33
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Are the Dresden books any good? I always wrote them off as Young Adult fiction and never looked into them but my friends recommended them - but his usual taste in books is awful so i'd rather get a second opinion before dropping money on them.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:06
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d3c0y2 posted:Are the Dresden books any good? I always wrote them off as Young Adult fiction and never looked into them but my friends recommended them - but his usual taste in books is awful so i'd rather get a second opinion before dropping money on them. They're pretty fun, yeah. They even get better as you progress, up until the tenth or eleventh book or so. Definitely worth checking out the first one, at he very least.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:15
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d3c0y2 posted:Are the Dresden books any good? I always wrote them off as Young Adult fiction and never looked into them but my friends recommended them - but his usual taste in books is awful so i'd rather get a second opinion before dropping money on them. There's a Dresden thread but I suppose that may not be the best place for a neutral opinion. They're pretty schlocky and especially the first few ones can be grating because the protagonist is still pretty goony (he and Butcher get better over time). If you possibly can, borrow the first one from somewhere and read it (they're all quick reads) and if you hate it then you won't like the further ones.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:16
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They're a lot of fun, but it really is around book three that they actually start being good.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:18
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I've read six of them but at my friend's recommendation I still haven't actually read book 2. I think the first one is fairly representative. If you read the first one and think "this has some promise and I'm intrigued by things in it", then keep reading (but maybe skip to book three).
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Jul 23, 2015 06:23
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If the first few books are a bit hit and miss can I skip them and come in around book 3? Or do I need to slog through them otherwise I'll be lost as all hell?
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Jul 23, 2015 06:24
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Not at all. One thing Butcher does in them and which gets a bit on your nerve if you're reading several in a row is that he takes great care to introduce a new reader to any basic world stuff and what happened in the previous book(s). After six of them I can sense it coming within a few sentences and then I just skim a page or two to get to the business at hand.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:25
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d3c0y2 posted:Are the Dresden books any good? I always wrote them off as Young Adult fiction and never looked into them but my friends recommended them - but his usual taste in books is awful so i'd rather get a second opinion before dropping money on them. IMHO they're the best pulp-style fantasy being written right now. The first few especially aren't so hot technically (he wrote the first one as a writing class project) but Butcher has a real flair for the best kind of pulp, just exaggerated enough that it's melodrama instead of outright camp, he plays with the noir stereotypes well, and he writes a good action sequence and has excellent pacing. Basically, if "He's a private detective -- who's also a wizard!" appeals to you, they're probably worth reading. They're not trying to be anything more than pulp fantasy but what they do they do well. Plus, unlike most authors, there's a general upward trend in quality from book to book. Butcher's not just a bad writer who got a good idea for a series; he's continually striving to be a better writer and it shows. That said the Rivers of London series by Ben Aaronovitch achieves many of the same things and is much better written. It's just, well, a more professionally written book, with more attention to realism, detail, etc., so it ends up being a different experience than the pulpy sugar high of Dresden.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:IMHO they're the best pulp-style fantasy being written right now. Aaronovitch's series is drastically different in tone and circumstance, despite the similarities in plot or whatever. It's much more serious and the emotional highs and lows in the Dresden stuff are not there in Rivers of London. That said, stay the hell away from the Iron Druid stuff if your'e delving into pop-Urban Fantasy.. I read maybe a hundred pages of the first book and it was god loving terrible. I disliked every character's voice that showed up. It was like bad chick-lit. I don't know that it was as 'fun' (well, I mean, it wasn't) as Dresden, but Harry Connolly's Twenty Palaces series was very enjoyable. I have a friend who likes the Sandman Slim books and I think 20P is leaps and bounds better than that one. The 20P ones are probably my favorite of those we're talking about here.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:44
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With that said, Peter Grant is an unbearable twit and the Rivers of London books are from his viewpoint and they are the worse for it.
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Jul 23, 2015 07:07
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I like Abercrombie's writing better than fatso because he actually writes. Which I hear is part of being an author. Also the Library at Mount Char was the best thing I've read in a long time. Someone said earlier that it's American Gods done right, that's the vibe I got and and I completely agree.
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Jul 23, 2015 08:42
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What would be a good cyber-punk read? Something like Shadowrun but not Shadowrun. Also, not Blade Runner. I'd like something rather recent (as in, not with the kind of future technology as a 50's writer would imagine it ; it's cute but not what I'm going for). Something along the lines of Deus Ex.
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Jul 23, 2015 08:51
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Furism posted:What would be a good cyber-punk read? Something like Shadowrun but not Shadowrun. Also, not Blade Runner. I'd like something rather recent (as in, not with the kind of future technology as a 50's writer would imagine it ; it's cute but not what I'm going for). Something along the lines of Deus Ex. The obvious answer is Neuromancer by William Gibson, Islands in the Net by Bruce Sterling and Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. All classics of the genre. Fart of Presto fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 08:54
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Neuromancer, Snow Crash, When Gravity Fails?
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Jul 23, 2015 08:59
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Ornamented Death posted:I think you read way, way too deep into those comments. Also, you missed my point, which was that Jack Vance popularized the dying earth story, not Gene Wolfe, as Evfedu indicated originally; I wasn't just randomly naming an author that has written that kind of story. Khizan posted:With that said, Peter Grant is an unbearable twit and the Rivers of London books are from his viewpoint and they are the worse for it. Don't get me wrong, though, books 1-3 are as good as Urban Fantasy can get as far as I'm concerned. Evfedu fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 09:13
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House Louse posted:OK. Evfedu kicked off by implying that Wolfe's literary importance was due to having written a dying earth sf story with some fantasy elements. (He actually said post-apocalyptic, let's assume he was just being vague). This descibes The Book of the New Sun, its related stories, maybe "The Hero as Werwolf" and, I'm not sure what else, while ignoring literally everything else about Wolfe's writing. Also the fact that Wolfe's the only person ever to have done this. Wow. You are a loving moron. Hedrigall posted:Has anyone read Vermilion by Molly Tanzer yet? I just gave it a try. Didn't grab me. "Inserts a lot of modern world progressive issues" sounds about right. Personally, I found it somewhat clumsy and heavy handed, but it might your thing, I dunno. I'm not really the target audience for it. It's also pretty much a typical UF book in its structure. It does have a lovely cover, though. A good Weird West book I personally loved recently was Haxan by Kenneth Mark Hoover. I suggest giving that a try, the author needs the reviews. Megazver fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 09:23
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Furism posted:What would be a good cyber-punk read? Something like Shadowrun but not Shadowrun. Also, not Blade Runner. I'd like something rather recent (as in, not with the kind of future technology as a 50's writer would imagine it ; it's cute but not what I'm going for). Something along the lines of Deus Ex. Third vote for Neuromancer here. It is the definitive cyberpunk book, in my opinion. Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive, the next two books in the trilogy are also solid picks.
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Jul 23, 2015 10:36
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Thanks for all the cyber punk recommendations. Snow Crash I have read already, totally blanked on that one, but Neuromancer needs to be the next then!
Furism fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 10:54
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The Diamond Age also by Stephenson is also pretty Deus Ex-y.
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Jul 23, 2015 12:41
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