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Producing something is entirely separate from consuming something.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:03
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Goofus posts on the Fredmiranda.com forums. Gallant reads the latest critical theory.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:04
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xzzy posted:You say that like I've ever produced anything that a critic would waste their time blathering about. Anyone you respect in your field can be a critic. Peer criticism sessions are among the most important experiences I've had as a photographer, and it is loving brutal. I highly recommend it to anyone trying to further their craft - because you'll either learn something, or you'll feel defensive and "gently caress that" and want to shoot to prove them wrong.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:22
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xzzy posted:Yeah, a personal problem with art critics. Music critics, however...
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Jul 22, 2015 22:44
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xzzy posted:Personally I think the crap that critics write to be utterly incomprehensible.. and not just for photos, all creative efforts. They abuse language so effectively it becomes impossible to figure out what they're actually trying to say. Five goons in a random thread on this board spamming "that's paper" is more informative. There is a difference between looking at photos with a critical eye and people who are critics. The first is important, and the later, I don't even know why they exist. Why does anyone need someone to tell them what to think about a piece of art? I'd rather make up my own mind. Edit: I don't mean for feedback of your own work but more someone telling me what's good to consume. Haggins fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 22:59
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I usually recommend: The Nature of Photographs by Stephen Shore The Photographer's Eye by John Szarkowski Robert Adams: Why People Photograph In addition I found these 2 books very good but YMMV: Core Curriculum: Writings on Photography by Tod Papageorge Aperture Magazine Anthology: The Minor White Years, 1952-1976
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Jul 23, 2015 00:08
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Haggins posted:There is a difference between looking at photos with a critical eye and people who are critics. The first is important, and the later, I don't even know why they exist. Why does anyone need someone to tell them what to think about a piece of art? I'd rather make up my own mind. Criticism does not exist to tell you what to think, but to offer ways of thinking about work, additional considerations for how to approach it. Don't conflate reviewers with critics (though in popular discourse critic = guy who tells you what movie gets 3 popcorns out of 5), or with critique which is intended for the artist, not the audience, and has to do with addressing motivations, goals, and techniques.
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Jul 23, 2015 00:18
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365 Nog Hogger posted:Criticism does not exist to tell you what to think, but to offer ways of thinking about work, additional considerations for how to approach it. Don't conflate reviewers with critics (though in popular discourse critic = guy who tells you what movie gets 3 popcorns out of 5), or with critique which is intended for the artist, not the audience, and has to do with addressing motivations, goals, and techniques. I guess I'm thinking more of reviewers. I agree critique is important. On a side note, I wish PAD was as popular as it used to be. I learned a lot giving and receiving critique there.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:45
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mAlfunkti0n posted:Not in yurp (Ohio) but we do have some good areas around here too Even if you're in Ohio, you can still read up on great artists of days gone by. Coming from a concert photography background, one thing that I took from a trip to Europe was that back in the day, guy like Raphael and Michelangelo had to learn how to be big on the "shock and awe" factor in order to make epic art. When doing concert photography, you're basically trying to make people look as awesome as possible and applying many of the same concepts.
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Jul 23, 2015 02:02
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HPL posted:Even if you're in Ohio, you can still read up on great artists of days gone by. Coming from a concert photography background, one thing that I took from a trip to Europe was that back in the day, guy like Raphael and Michelangelo had to learn how to be big on the "shock and awe" factor in order to make epic art. When doing concert photography, you're basically trying to make people look as awesome as possible and applying many of the same concepts. I appreciate all the advice here and will take it to heart. It's time for me to slow down and really digest what I take in .. rather than be in a hurry to move to the next thing. Again, really appreciate the discussion here.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:57
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Radbot posted:I couldn't possibly agree less - without words, photos selected as "good" are merely relying on the authority of the author to convey their worth. I want to be convinced that these photos are good because they actually are good. Photography is ultimately personal and subjective. I wouldn't take a photo just to convince you that it's good, only because I think it's good. Whether other people think it's good or bad is another issue altogether. There's no such thing as a good photo, just a photo that some or many many many many people subjectively agree is good. For example, say there's someone who thinks Ansel Adams is very good and Eggleston is totally rubbish, and there's someone else who thinks exactly the opposite. Reading words about the photos from these 2 famous photographers from both of them will only just confuse you if you're reading them to be convinced. Critique helps to make your photography better for yourself, like what 365 Nog Hogger said.
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Jul 23, 2015 04:50
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EDIT: Found a guide that says I can: http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/03/01/useful-photography-tip-12-use-an-old-polaroid-land-camera-with-your-modern-speedlite-flash/ iSheep fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 04:51
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Haggins posted:I guess I'm thinking more of reviewers. I agree critique is important. My problem with PAD is that because it's a bunch of beginners critiquing beginners, it's real easy to get into the circlejerky self-congratulatory bullshit that we hate on places like flickr for. A lot of the critique is just a lot of words wasted saying nothing substantial about an average to middling photo when the shooter's and the critic's time would be better spent looking at better photos and learning from them instead of trying to find the few good elements of a bad photo. Sometimes somebody more experienced will wander in and say something along the lines of "this sucks" in exactly so many words and people get all huffy and throws out the "if your critique of ~my art~ isn't an essay you just don't get it." But in reality because there's so little to say is part of the reason why it sucks. If you can't lurk a little and find out for yourself what's good and what's bad then any critique you give or get is totally pointless. That's not to say all the photos posted to PAD is bad or that those offering critique isn't doing it with the best intentions, but I really don't find it useful as a venue for improvement personally.
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Jul 23, 2015 08:00
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alkanphel posted:I usually recommend: I got "The Photographers Eye" recommended to me a while back and i bought The Photographers Eye (by Michael Freeman) Did i buy the wrong book? Are they the same book?
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Jul 23, 2015 10:10
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Ineptitude posted:I got "The Photographers Eye" recommended to me a while back and i bought No, different books. Michael Freeman's book is much more technical and all about the various compositional rules which are useful when starting out. John Szarkowski's book is more about understanding photographs. Take a look at the Amazon comments for each book and you'll see the difference.
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Jul 23, 2015 10:43
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Geektox posted:My problem with PAD is that because it's a bunch of beginners critiquing beginners, it's real easy to get into the circlejerky self-congratulatory bullshit that we hate on places like flickr for. A lot of the critique is just a lot of words wasted saying nothing substantial about an average to middling photo when the shooter's and the critic's time would be better spent looking at better photos and learning from them instead of trying to find the few good elements of a bad photo. Yep critiques in PAD are bad and you will most likely not get anything of value out of them. Read good photobooks, look at photos from good photographers, figure what is good about them, apply it to yourself. Take lots of photos, be very self-critical of your own photos.
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Jul 23, 2015 11:18
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alkanphel posted:I usually recommend: I'm about half way through this one (purchased in the home of tastemakers, Portland), and I already can't recommend it enough.
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Jul 23, 2015 12:33
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Geektox posted:My problem with PAD is that because it's a bunch of beginners critiquing beginners, it's real easy to get into the circlejerky self-congratulatory bullshit that we hate on places like flickr for. A lot of the critique is just a lot of words wasted saying nothing substantial about an average to middling photo when the shooter's and the critic's time would be better spent looking at better photos and learning from them instead of trying to find the few good elements of a bad photo. That's a good point. I think if you get critique you should get it from people who better than you or at the very least on your level.
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Jul 23, 2015 13:21
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Geektox posted:My problem with PAD is that because it's a bunch of beginners critiquing beginners, it's real easy to get into the circlejerky self-congratulatory bullshit that we hate on places like flickr for. A lot of the critique is just a lot of words wasted saying nothing substantial about an average to middling photo when the shooter's and the critic's time would be better spent looking at better photos and learning from them instead of trying to find the few good elements of a bad photo. 
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Jul 23, 2015 14:09
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Just accept that visual art stimulates your unconscious mind and any attempt to consciously break down its emotional symbols is futile, man 
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Jul 23, 2015 14:35
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Haggins posted:That's a good point. I think if you get critique you should get it from people who better than you or at the very least on your level. This is what's so hard to find, and in my opinion, pretty much the only worthwhile thing about art school. Having people better than you rip you to shreds is insanely valuable.
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Jul 23, 2015 16:40
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Radbot posted:Having people better than you rip you to shreds is insanely valuable. People who are experienced in a craft and can identify what you're doing wrong, or guide you to improve, are valuable. People who rip others to shreds are a dime a dozen, and we already have to deal with people like that in every other aspect of our lives. Tearing other people down, especially those beneath your skill level, is just that: destructive. Someone who is seeking critique is already aware they have shortcomings and ripping them apart is as harsh as it is redundant. The people out there who are able to critique in succinct, constructive ways are the ones who are valuable. For what it's worth, the art students I know who loved to tear others apart are still working at Hot Topic.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:53
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Chalets the Baka posted:Someone who is seeking critique is already aware they have shortcomings I wish this were always true.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:57
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MrBlandAverage posted:I wish this were always true. Haha seriously. A lot of the time people seeking "critique" actually just want to hear that everything they're doing is great and wow what a great piece. I mean, if I'm honest I'm guilty of this myself sometimes too. Taking critique is a tough pill sometimes.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:33
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Admittedly a problem I have is taking critique personally. Despite seeking it out from time to time. I tend to know what is lovely about my photos in the first place but its always nice to see what else is terrible about them. Even if I have to swallow my pride or whatever.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:59
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Everything is poo poo Hail lovely Satan.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:08
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I just received my RX100IV from Amazon today, brand new, shipped and sold by Amazon.com. It arrived with this little scuff on the screen - it's the one in line with the self timer button, to the right of the "Y" in Sony: Am I being too persnickety about this? I was going to put a screen protector on right away so it was pretty disheartening to already see a rub/ding in the screen coating. loving Amazon, this isn't the first time they've given me a "new-ish" product at a new price.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:34
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 Return it and get a mint one so it won't look bad next to all of the other things displayed on the shelf of poo poo you don't use
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Jul 24, 2015 19:44
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ansel autisms posted:
What are you talking about? Are you familiar with how I use my gear? One of the ways I'm able to afford this stuff is by selling my well taken care of items once I'm done using them.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:47
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Radbot posted:Am I being too persnickety about this? I was going to put a screen protector on right away so it was pretty disheartening to already see a rub/ding in the screen coating. loving Amazon, this isn't the first time they've given me a "new-ish" product at a new price. Go ahead and contact them, maybe they'll give you some Amazon Bucks as an apology. Or do they not do that anymore?
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Jul 24, 2015 19:49
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Amazon customer service is loving fantastic and as long as you don't abuse it they will pretty much do anything for you. Just be nice to the poor CSR and tell them you're upset the camera arrived with a scuff mark. They'll send you a return box and cross-ship you a replacement if you ask for that. That is, unless you bought it from a third-party retailer through the Amazon platform. I don't know how returns work in that case.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:58
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Yep, they've always been good to me. I just get nervous about hitting that returns limit thing that bans you from Amazon. I rarely return things, less than 1% of my orders from Amazon in total over my life, but I've had to return two things this month and this would be the third. Just contacted them, hopefully they'll cross-ship.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:00
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Radbot posted:What are you talking about? Are you familiar with how I use my gear? One of the ways I'm able to afford this stuff is by selling my well taken care of items once I'm done using them. Then why are you asking the internet for advice? If you think the product is defective just return it.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:20
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Amazon US must be run completely differently to UK, the CS here is abysmal and I've never seen a penny from them for any damage to items. Didn't even get a sorry for a hard disk they shipped in one of those thin flatpack cardboard things that wouldn't protect a book very well. It died <24 hours later.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:22
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xzzy posted:Then why are you asking the internet for advice? If you think the product is defective just return it. I was just trying to get some opinions about whether this is something to even be worried about. What do you think? Amazon won't cross-ship, just confirmed.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:22
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I think if you have a habit of reselling pristine electronics, expecting a pristine electronic device makes some sense. If you just want the camera to use, a tiny smudge on the LCD will never ever impact the use of the device so just keep it.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:31
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Radbot posted:I was just trying to get some opinions about whether this is something to even be worried about. What do you think? The only people I've seen that have gotten banned from amazon are the neurotic DPR denizens who order 5 copies of every single lens, shoot hundreds of brick wall shots to pixel peep and then return the least satisfactory 4 *every single time they buy a new lens*. Or there's the ones who post about how they decided to trial run half the Canon, Nikon, Sony and Fuji catalogs in a 30 day time span to decide which system was right for them. I think you're probably ok.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:32
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EL BROMANCE posted:Amazon US must be run completely differently to UK, the CS here is abysmal and I've never seen a penny from them for any damage to items. Didn't even get a sorry for a hard disk they shipped in one of those thin flatpack cardboard things that wouldn't protect a book very well. It died <24 hours later. Probably. Here's an experience I had: I ordered a litter box from Amazon Canada. I didn't look at the dimensions, I thought small vs large .. well, my cat's pretty small ... so I got the small one. He barely fit in it and he kept kicking litter outside of it. I called Amazon support hoping maybe they could give me a discount off the larger one or something, more or less looking for a handout because of my idiocy. I don't have Prime or anything. She was like, "Oh that's no problem! We'll refund you the entire purchase, and then you can feel free to purchase the larger size if you want." I said, "Do you want this thing back? My cat HAS been pooping in it." She starts laughing and said, "Oh no sir, you dispose of that however you like!" It was entirely effortless, completely friendly and non-judgemental. And they didn't HAVE to do that. Now, for more expensive equipment like cameras, I imagine they would want the defective piece back so they can try to return it to the manufacturer as defective (or however they rectify those situations), but they've been fairly great to me with DOA computer equipment. Unless Amazon UK is totally different in culture than Amazon Canada and Amazon US, I'd saaaaay that maybe you just had bad luck and someone was having a bad day?
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Jul 24, 2015 20:43
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Amazon US is normally pretty awesome, one time I bought a "like new" vacuum cleaner from Amazon Warehouse Deals that turned out to be a broken vacuum cleaner smashed up in a box - I was refunded within the hour and they told me throw the item away. Not that I was hoping to keep another free RX100, but a cross-ship would have been nice. Guess B&H it is, they don't gently caress around.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:47
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They send me random packages all the time and tell me to keep them when I contact CSR's - in the past 8 months I've gotten an alarm clock , an ankle brace, and a 150$ wusthoff santoku blade (score!) Edit: We also got a toddler bed, which nobody fessed up to buying us, so I dunno if that was a mistake or just a nice friend who didn't feel like taking credit
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Jul 24, 2015 20:57
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