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wait do we got peeps in the tyool 2015 who don't recognise the US as the worlds biggest terror state yet? If so lol. HUMAN RIGHTS *robot kills your family from the sky, your deaths are marked down as 11 combatants killed*
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Jul 23, 2015 03:47
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nopantsjack posted:wait do we got peeps in the tyool 2015 who don't recognise the US as the worlds biggest terror state yet? If so lol. That's how the 21st century works for all you non-Americans.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:58
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nopantsjack posted:wait do we got peeps in the tyool 2015 who don't recognise the US as the worlds biggest terror state yet? If so lol. So killing them with JDAMs dropped by British, French, Canadian or various other nations using piloted aircraft is more humane?
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Jul 23, 2015 04:53
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crabcakes66 posted:So killing them with JDAMs dropped by British, French, Canadian or various other nations using piloted aircraft is more humane? no, we do a decent amount of state terror too it just pales in comparison to the worlds dominant, belligerent military superpower.
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Jul 23, 2015 05:02
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nopantsjack posted:no, we do a decent amount of state terror too it just pales in comparison to the worlds dominant, belligerent military superpower. Yes as always America is evil. Also are we still talking about PDRK?
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Jul 23, 2015 05:26
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nopantsjack posted:no, we do a decent amount of state terror too it just pales in comparison to the worlds dominant, belligerent military superpower. ITT: Fighting ISIS is an act of terrorism.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:18
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Any nation that dominates the rest of the world in terms of its military and also actively uses it is basically by nature the most violent if you measure that in terms of outcomes. In terms of human rights the US has classic imperial laws like the debate over whether its okay to assassinate American citizens or not; as it is implicitly okay to assassinate non-Americans. Without laws like this you cant "project power". Same for the british empire and the mongolian empire or whoever, America is not intrinsically evil or special its just currently globally dominant and willing to be violent.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:19
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nopantsjack posted:Any nation that dominates the rest of the world in terms of its military and also actively uses it is basically by nature the most violent if you measure that in terms of outcomes. Whoa dude I dunno if this thread can handle all the truth bombs you're dropping on us ignoramuses.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:44
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So because America is dominant and occasionally commits violence, we shouldn't callout anyone else when they are violent. Thats some food for thought.
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Jul 23, 2015 08:10
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nopantsjack posted:Any nation that dominates the rest of the world in terms of its military and also actively uses it is basically by nature the most violent if you measure that in terms of outcomes. wow when do you think the sheeple are going to wake up and realize this
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Jul 23, 2015 08:22
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Crowsbeak posted:So because America is dominant and occasionally commits violence, we shouldn't callout anyone else when they are violent. Thats some food for thought. -- Nobody in this thread
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Jul 23, 2015 10:42
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Crowsbeak posted:So because America is dominant and occasionally commits violence, we shouldn't callout anyone else when they are violent. Thats some food for thought. "occasionally"
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Jul 23, 2015 14:19
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HorseLord posted:"occasionally" Compared to the UK, or the soviets the U.S. Is the ufp from Star Trek. We can improve but that doesn't mean that barbarism shouldn't be decried.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:47
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Crowsbeak posted:Compared to the UK, or the soviets the U.S. Is the ufp from Star Trek. We can improve but that doesn't mean that barbarism shouldn't be decried. That's pretty delusional, holy poo poo. The USA is a butcher shop even when you only consider it's domestic atrocities. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 14:54
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HorseLord posted:That's pretty delusional, holy poo poo. The USA is a butcher shop. A Stalinist decrying political violence is like Bukowski urging temperance.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:56
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HorseLord posted:That's pretty delusional, holy poo poo. The USA is a butcher shop even when you only consider it's domestic atrocities. Like I said there needs to be improvmants but compared to other superpowers we are a improvmant. Likewise I cannot see why our flaws means criticism can not be given at others who commit far worse actions.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:09
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Crowsbeak posted:Like I said there needs to be improvmants but compared to other superpowers we are a improvmant. Likewise I cannot see why our flaws means criticism can not be given at others who commit far worse actions. No, the US isn't "an improvement" because the US distinguishes itself by finding new and more horrible ways to kill people.
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Jul 23, 2015 16:59
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China erased the existence of a highly popular monk in 24 hours. And they do it out in the open. Taunting the plebes who dare oppose Beijing. There is simply no better regime in history. Not even Stalin.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:10
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The US has been the most belligerent nation on Earth in the last 70 years or so. No other country comes close when it comes to inflicting death and suffering on foreign civilians since WWII. This is not a tinfoil conspiracy theory. It is an undeniable historical fact and it's always hilarious when Americans just can't seem to grasp this. IMO, blatant defense of US imperialism à la MIGF is preferable to liberal hand-wringing over the US foreign policy "needing improvements." It's just more intellectually honest.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:50
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fspades posted:The US has been the most belligerent nation on Earth in the last 70 years or so. No other country comes close when it comes to inflicting death and suffering on foreign civilians since WWII. This is not a tinfoil conspiracy theory. It is an undeniable historical fact and it's always hilarious when Americans just can't seem to grasp this. It's really not that hard to apply a few score keeping metrics when making these judgements. IE note that the U.S. is the sole world power, compare to other historical world powers and/or extrapolate how much better or worse other world powers would be in the same role (IE Russia, China). Just pointing out that the U.S. has killed people is actually really stupid in the context of human history.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:56
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fspades posted:The US has been the most belligerent nation on Earth in the last 70 years or so. No other country comes close when it comes to inflicting death and suffering on foreign civilians since WWII. This is not a tinfoil conspiracy theory. It is an undeniable historical fact and it's always hilarious when Americans just can't seem to grasp this. You need to specify 'foreign civilians' for this to be true, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpcxfsjIIbM
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Jul 23, 2015 17:59
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asdf32 posted:It's really not that hard to apply a few score keeping metrics when making these judgements. IE note that the U.S. is the sole world power, compare to other historical world powers and/or extrapolate how much better or worse other world powers would be in the same role (IE Russia, China). Why the worlds sole superpower has the need to repeatedly invade and bomb foreign countries and mess with their domestic politics through dirty, underhanded methods? Does it come with being a super power or can it be maybe, just maybe, how the US perpetuates its position as the world hegemon?
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Jul 23, 2015 18:07
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fspades posted:the need to repeatedly invade and bomb foreign countries and mess with their domestic politics through dirty, underhanded methods? The Eastern Europe thread is thattaway 
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Jul 23, 2015 18:13
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fspades posted:Why the worlds sole superpower has the need to repeatedly invade and bomb foreign countries and mess with their domestic politics through dirty, underhanded methods? Does it come with being a super power or can it be maybe, just maybe, how the US perpetuates its position as the world hegemon? It's how hegemons in general perpetuate their position. It's important for the citizens of a hegemon to push for it to be less completely awful (and, generally, the citizens fail completely), but here is a comprehensive list of regional and up hegemons that don't engage in that behavior much: - The colonial Netherlands on a good week? - Modern Germany, I suppose. - China isn't doing a lot of invading and bombing (outside the borders of Greater China, but this is a tread about how they are better than America, so let's give them a pass on Xinjiang and Tibet), but sure is partial to arming the wealthy African assholes it works closely with. Does abetting dictators count as dirty and underhanded or is it just a reasonable demand of geopolitics? The US learned a lot of lessons from the British Empire in how to be relatively hands off, and China is learning from us why it is a good idea to be cost effective, which incidentally means fewer bombs unless youare really quite sure your regional proxies have this thing handleable.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:21
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Traveller posted:The Eastern Europe thread is thattaway Putin is a dirty hippie when compared to any American president in the last 70 years.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:It's how hegemons in general perpetuate their position. It's important for the citizens of a hegemon to push for it to be less completely awful (and, generally, the citizens fail completely), but here is a comprehensive list of regional and up hegemons that don't engage in that behavior much: And why do we need this hegemon again?
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Jul 23, 2015 18:22
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fspades posted:And why do we need this hegemon again? if the us went away tomorrow you just replace a sort of global hegemony with several regional ones the net effect probably won't be much better
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Jul 23, 2015 18:41
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fspades posted:And why do we need this hegemon again? Why do you concentrate on the attacks on foreigners? Is it in any way more moral to kill your own citizens?
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Jul 23, 2015 18:45
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Reddit has already fully accepted that Crimea and Ukraine are America's fault because muh John McCain and Joe Biden's son!!! Also some crackpot on RT said so!
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Jul 23, 2015 18:49
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fspades posted:Putin is a dirty hippie when compared to any American president in the last 70 years. You and horselord should be friends.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:05
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Typo posted:if the us went away tomorrow you just replace a sort of global hegemony with several regional ones So you are tolerating the US murdering thousands on a regular basis to keep its hegemonic position because you just have a feeling that the alternative world where the US isn't the world hegemon would just be the same. Ok, then. Can anybody actually defend US hegemony as a good thing that should be perpetuated with force and terror if necessary? I honestly think that's a more rational position to take here. Why do we need US hegemony? Obdicut posted:Why do you concentrate on the attacks on foreigners? What kind of sanctimonious bullshit is this? Of course I care a lot more about foreign aggression than some government-led atrocity in a foreign country. The latter, while morally reprehensible, has no way to harm me or my countrymen. The former constitutes an indirect threat to me and everyone else in the world: Do not resist our national interests, or else! I'm sure it's difficult for you to imagine but a considerable number of people in this world lives under the fear of American bombs, American invasions, and American-led coups. So excuse me when I'm unfazed by your cheap attempt at gotcha.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:08
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Nonsense posted:Reddit has already fully accepted that Crimea and Ukraine are America's fault because muh John McCain and Joe Biden's son!!! Where on reddit? /ukrainianconflict is very pro-ukraine moderated.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:11
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In fairness a near equal or greater number live in fear of non-US invasions or bombing campaigns largely prevented by worries over US involvement or their diplomatic intervention (which only has force because of their hegemoic position). As my source I cite the same place you do plus the current example of Yemen which KSA is slowy turning into a mass graveyard as they don't need to worry about US involvement.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:12
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fspades posted:
I don't think you really understood my question. Anyway, I understand: you care about things that might harm you and your countrymen, and don't care as much about the lives of foreigners. That makes sense. And it doesn't seem like you think it's any more moral to kill your own citizens, it's just pragmatism.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:12
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fspades posted:So you are tolerating the US murdering thousands on a regular basis to keep its hegemonic position because you just have a feeling that the alternative world where the US isn't the world hegemon would just be the same. Ok, then. Because while the us will gently caress with you if you get in its way it cares mostly about money and power a lot of regional actors OTOH have centuries old feuds with neighboring ethnics and religious groups. For them loving with said groups matters nearly as much if not more than money and power even when they aren't in the way. See ISIS and the yazidi
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Jul 23, 2015 19:14
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I give crowsbeak a hard time mostly because this is a griefer thread, but when he says "improvements" he and I are really on the same page. Butcher's shop or not, here's my first post:DeusExMachinima posted:Hrm. Quick question for everyone else: which country would you rather be oppressed in, China or America? And it's really telling horselord, et al. are avoiding this point and acting like anyone who'd prefer America automatically thinks we have squeaky clean hands 24/7/365. We do bad imperialistic stuff, thanks for the hot breaking news, but it really would be a separate political philosophy clear and distinct from our current flaws if we were banning religious groups or primarying candidates with polonium. I mean like, haha, wouldn't it be totes craze if someone said that they can't tell the difference between-- fspades posted:Putin is a dirty hippie when compared to any American president in the last 70 years. 
DeusExMachinima fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 19:23
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Bip Roberts posted:Where on reddit? /ukrainianconflict is very pro-ukraine moderated. WorldNews was on the side of truth until the last couple of months, when they were invaded by free republicans and other racists trying to muddy dialogue pretending Putin has done nothing wrong.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:25
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Guys, guys, remember that time Edward Snowden the outspoken critic of US policy ended up dying of suspicious radiation poisoning? No? I guess that just goes to show weak and powerless the US is, if only we had some dreamy strong autocrat to cradle us in his bosom and spank us when we were bad. How I wish comrade Stalin-kun would introduce me to his leather playground uguuu~~~~~
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Jul 23, 2015 19:29
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I think all of us understands there are shitloads stuff the us do is pretty evil, especially during the cold war era. otoh i think events in the last couple of years have reminded us too that you can do a lot worse than the us
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Jul 23, 2015 19:54
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fspades posted:So you are tolerating the US murdering thousands on a regular basis to keep its hegemonic position because you just have a feeling that the alternative world where the US isn't the world hegemon would just be the same. Ok, then. This, at last, is an interesting question. We kinda don't and the humane use of current US hegemony would probably be to nudge things towards the sanest possible multipolar world, since the US probably can't remain sole superpower forever. The big question in a power vacuum is always going to be what happens when someone tries for a bigger piece of the pie or otherwise steps out of line. Right now, the answer is dependent on whether you are sufficiently obnoxious to US interests and/or have another major power sponsor who is able to disincentivize US intervention in, for example, a country on the north coast of the Black Sea. In Hypothetical Future Multipolar World, the answer probably ranges from "depends how the other regional powers feel about it" (not great) to "there is a working cohesive international order that functions a lot like the modern US-led interventions but with more input from the world or the region in question" (probably good). The Obama administration's policies, including helping build a system for Asian governments to plot together, are a step in the right direction insofar as they take a look at the inconvenient and excessive costs of direct US hegemony and evaluate whether there is a cheaper way to keep global geopolitics reasonably civil and amenable to American companies making tons of money.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:01
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