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I'm only partway through the podcast, but yeah, you guys got trolled. Saying it's a serious game because it got multiple supplements... well, not really. It was originally published in the 90s by Dirt Merchant Games, which AFAIK made HoL and nothing else. Then White Wolf reprinted it under Black Dog, which is most likely the version you have. There's a "second edition" from the 00s that gets a few extra pages of back matter but is otherwise identical. There was a single supplement, Buttery Wholesomeness, which also included Freebase, the closest thing to another "game" Dirt Merchant put out. Whether or not HoL itself can be considered a game, by the time you get to Buttery and its Cornholed By God chart or the dead parrot totem, I don't think anybody could claim in good faith that it's trying to be a functional game. And if HoL is practically unplayable, Freebase is literally unplayable, at least without getting arrested or hurt in short order. HoL is satire, though one can certainly argue that doing a parody of bad games is still a bad game. I though it was generally a pretty funny read (at least, the portions that can be parsed), aside from the pedo / rape humor that I've outgrown, to put it too gently. Black Dog Games did publish a fair deal of "adult" supplements for the main White Wolf lines, some of which were puerile (Freak Legion), tryhard (Destiny's Price), or genuinely mature (Charnel Houses of Europe: The Shoah; yes, the holocaust book was under the imprint). What Black Dog meant as an imprint was never terribly clear, particularly when World of Darkness books were really not intended for kids to begin with. But since they sold heavily to a teen audience, they couldn't admit that... it was a mess.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:14
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I'm no expert on the genre (which is why I left that part up to Kai Tave!), but my interpretation of the whole Magic Deer thing is that it creates a scenario where the heroes are in service of the crown, and the crown is unambiguously good. There is no element of "well what if Queen Jaellin is an imperialistic exploiter and you're actually supposed to join the Shadow to overthrow her". For sure, there are plot hooks that involve domestic issues within the kingdom, but because of how the sovereign is picked, there's never supposed to be any doubt that maintaining the status quo is an ideal goal to constantly strive for.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm no expert on the genre (which is why I left that part up to Kai Tave!), but my interpretation of the whole Magic Deer thing is that it creates a scenario where the heroes are in service of the crown, and the crown is unambiguously good. And if Queen Jaellin does somehow end up being a hellish tyrant, you just get rid of her without worrying about who goes next. Unlike other forms of government Cervidaemocracy is self correcting.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:21
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I would just like to go on record and say that I have actually, successfully played HoL. Twice.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:28
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My thought on the whole HoL holeness is that if I'd bought it, I'd have expected it to be a playable game, even it it's a parody game, and I'd feel cheated if I had spent the retail price on something nearly impossible to actually play. Palladium had already cornered the market on entertaining unplayable games in 1994.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:37
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Mr. Maltose posted:And if Queen Jaellin does somehow end up being a hellish tyrant, you just get rid of her without worrying about who goes next. Unlike other forms of government Cervidaemocracy is self correcting. Seems to me that the Magic Deer checks to see who is most worthy at the time a new sovereign needs to be chosen. It doesn't know anything about the future, or if someone worthier might come along later. To me the obvious plot hook is the bureaucracy and structure of the kingdom around the nominal crown, who might turn even the worthiest new king or queen into a puppet or figurehead. Magic Deer chooses who wears the crown but says nothing about what power that crown actually has.
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Jul 23, 2015 16:22
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I think there's also hooks in trying to ensure the new monarch is not being manipulated--yes, the deer picks who is worthiest and maybe one reason it tends to choose nobles fairly often is that they have training in dealing with court shenanigans, but it seems entirely possible for an untried surprise successor to be vulnerable to manipulation. If you wanted to do court politicking that can be a great hook, and an underdog position to fight from. The would-be manipulators don't need to be cackling mustache-twirlers to be selfish and short-sighted and petty. The Goblin Emperor is a novel about court politics in just such a vein--I wouldn't really put it in the romantic fantasy fold, but the characters in it are not a bunch of horrible people, just an untried monarch and a lot of jaded courtiers all trying to get theirs.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:12
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HoL isn't any less playable than, say, Wraith: the Oblivion 1E, and a hell of a lot more fun to read. LOL forever at people who couldn't figure out that a game whose only supplement had a title that abbreviated to "Butt Hole" was a joke
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Jul 23, 2015 17:13
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Halloween Jack posted:My thought on the whole HoL holeness is that if I'd bought it, I'd have expected it to be a playable game, even it it's a parody game, and I'd feel cheated if I had spent the retail price on something nearly impossible to actually play. Palladium had already cornered the market on entertaining unplayable games in 1994. Actually I think it's playable. I mean it's got a resolution chart that's relatively easy to read (if annoying, what with the various ways to lose a turn) and a not-too complex system. Roll 2D6, add stat, add skill, check the chart. The damage system is a little too complicated to match the tone, but even that could just be another joke. I guess maybe we need to split up our judgements in the back into "Could Play" and "Would Play" because it's not like the game is intentionally nonfunctional. It's just irritating, puerile, and in what's probably the harshest judgement based on what the game is supposed to actually be, not funny. I laughed more reading Tales from the Floating Vagabond, and a lot more reading Top Secret. Also, I'd probably move it up a whole letter grade if it was made clear in the book somewhere that all the "Holmeister can and should cheat openly and as often as possible" stuff was lampshaded a little more, at least in the Holmeister section. This is personal, because I have a really really old edition of Munchkin around here, and the rules have this one little joke entry that says something like "Cheating is against the rules unless you don't get caught" in them. That meant that for years, at least for my friends, playing Munchkin was an awful slog of lying, sleight of hand, and chicanery that made that game even worse than it is. Except it turns out that line item in the rules was so problematic across the board (no one got that it was a joke) that it was eventually pulled from future versions of the game. If HoL had a "Hey, your players should be scared of you cheating, but you know, don't cheat every time you miss" thing in there, I'd be a happier reader.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:17
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That part where you said the book says the Holmeister should just reroll attacks right in front of the players until they hit was hilarious! I was just enamored at how blatant it was, although yes it's a very poor product if you actually paid for it with the expectation to have something that's actually playable. And then you got to the part where there's a full page of lawyer jokes and I just lost it completely.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:a full page of lawyer jokes
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Jul 23, 2015 17:38
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Forces of Warmachine: Mercenaries Dirty Meg will work for Cygnar, Khador or the Protectorate of Menoth. She's got more natural engineering talent than others with a lifetime of training. She works aboard the Calamitas, and she's more than aware of the value of her skills and how to throw her weight around. Anyone in her way is likely to get teeth knocked out by her wrench or hurled overboard by the nearest laborjack. Her full name is Megan Melroane, and those who've befriended her learn that she was once a member of the Ceryl Dock Workers' Affiliation, who oversee cargo in the Cygnaran city of Ceryl. She was a top-notch 'jack handler, but she wasn't paid well and began stealing from her bosses to make up for it. A job seeling stolen laborjacks to Bartolo Montador drew the attention of the Mercarian League, and she was forced to turn her Freebooters on the mercenaries that came after her, becoming a fugitive wanted for murder. She bought a berth on the first vessel leaving th city, a smuggler bound for Five Fingers, and moved from ship to ship selling her talents for repair. She eventually caught up to the Calamitas, elbowing her way into Montador's dice game and demanding a job from him. He turned her down and awoke the next morning to find one of his 'jacks disassembled on his doorstep with Meg standing over it. She offered to put it back together as soon as she had the job. She joined the Calamitas crew that day, acclimating quickly to the pirates and arsenal. She's become a frequent sight in pirate havens like Bottomton. She loves to fight alongside 'jacks, using her custom mechanikal cannon to seize up gears or short out conduts. She's as pragmatic in battle as any pirvateer, too.  Doc Killingsworth (first name: Creb) is the Talion's cook and surgeon, willing to work for Cryx, Cygnar, Khador or the Protectorate of Menoth. His patients lack his enthusiasm for medicine and often the threat of his treatment convinces them to fight on. He's claimed to be an Arjun from Mercir, a Morridane from Corvis, a Sinari from Five Fingers and even a 'black Tordoran' from Berck, though no one from Ord has ever heard of a black Tordoran. He's got an impressive kill tally despite his rarity on the front line. He wields an immense meat cleaver and a lot of knives, unnerving friend and foe alike. He's a master knife thrower thanks to the ship rats, and his knives are viciously sharp. Most sailors are pragmatic about what they eat, and he's happy to prepare rat if he has to. It tastes surprisingly good, and even the officers of the Talion prefer not to ask what goes in his stews. Doc's an enthusiastic but untrained surgeon, coming by his skills through years of practice cutting things apart. His brand of surgery makes the men uneasy, but Shae trusts Doc to know his job. He's saved every officer on the Talion at least once, though he's not so hot on cleanliness. Indeed, he was the one to remove Joln Rockbottom's gangrenous left leg just before the Exeter mutiny. Many crewmen have survived losing limbs or eyes thanks to him, and he's been known to carve up enemies in battle and stuff pieces into his pockets. No one can confirm if he's ever used human remains for cooking, but few would put it past him. However, just to be sure, many veteran crewmen stick to stale bread just after large battles to avoid the meat dishes he makes.   First Mate Hawk will work for Cryx, Cygnar, Khador or the Protectorate of Menoth. She is responsible for keeping Captain Shae's crew ready for battle, and she suffers no foolishness. She's one of the deadliest swordswomen on the sea, and some sea she's killed more men than rip lung. Her acrobatics and speed make her nearly impossible to beat. She's much less comfortable socially, where her taciturn, abrasive nature leads to argument. She has a strange but strong bond with Shae, who tolerates her moodiness and is the only person who'll argue back with her. They are more harmonious in battle, perfectly coordinating their movements silently. The crew would do anything for her approval, and while they admire Shae, they look to Hawk for leadership. Shae commands them only because she is at his side. Many have died taking bullets for her, and she willingly spends lives to buy her own survival. Only a chosen few are her friends, and even they do not really understand her. Her past and even her given name are mysteries. She claims she has never felt any qualms about killing, and even as a Mercarian League sailor she had a reputation for danger. She has a tense relationship with Shae, and even normally rumormongering sailors won't speak of that matter. All that they know is that Shae trusts Hawk above all others, and she is empowered to make decisions in his absence. In fact, she is often acting captain at sea so that he can focus on other matters. Whenever he is threatened, Hawk is there to fight beside him.  Lord Rockbottom, Expedition Financier will work for Cryx, Cygnar, Khador or the Protectorate of Menoth. He is a Rhulic dwarf, Joln Rockbottom, and never seen without his bright red jacket and immense bicorn. He may seem comical, but no one on the Talion would dare laugh. He is far deadlier than he looks, and very important. His skill is not what keeps them in line, though - he's ship's treasurer and paymaster. His contacts are what keep the Talion working, and though they have a dark reputation, his bribes and silver tongue obscure their crimes in port. Without him, the Talion could not find any welcome. He is offended by characterization of the Rhulfolk are greedy, insisting that most Rhulfolk are good-hearted people who focus on family and craft. Joln has just chosen to master the 'craft' of speculative finance, a sacred calling to Great Father Ghrd, patron of wealth. Rockbottom will not explain the conditions under which he left Rhul or the status of his 'lordship,' but rumor has it that he had a dispute with the Moot of the Hundred Houses over a breach in the Edict of Ownership, and while they lacked evidence to execute or brand him, he chose a life at sea in oprder to stay as far from Rhul as physically possible. He still has friends in the Glass Peaks and Cygnaran dwarven conclaves, though, plus some allies in the Searforge Commission. He began to associate with the Mercarian League, and it went well at first, until his greed and manipulation soured him on them. No one knows the full extent of his dealings, but he's worked with Cryxian smugglers, Khadoran kayazy and Caspian inventors, sometimes all at once. He believes coin can solve most problems, but this philosophy backfired on him as the paymaster and financier of the Exeter, putting him at cross purposes with the captain. He was guilty of many allegations, but not insurrection - he prefers to let others lead, influencing them indirectly with money. The crew's efforts to save him from the brig genuinely moved him, and he is grateful to Doc for removing his gangrenous leg. Most of the Talion crew view Rockbottom as equal to Shae, and he might well be what keeps the crew together. His financial and political skills complement Shae's courage and tactics, and in fact, Joln still owns a small fleet of merchant ships, inversting some of his profits from them into the Talion and other ventures. Recently, he's become more interested in his private fleet after finding a rudder showing the way to the distant continent of Zu, taking measures to journey to its main trading port and back to make several lucrative deals. He dreams big, hoping one day to influence trade across the entire region or beyond. Meanwhile, he uses his pillaged luxuries to increase his comfort on the Talion. No one ever resents the fact that he never helps with menial tasks - that is beneath a lord, after all.  Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile will work for Cryx, Cygnar, Khador or the Protectorate of Menoth. The Calamitas see him as more than human, born from a cannon and breathing blasting powder. He has crewed the big guns longer than anyone else on the Calamitas, perhaps anyone alive on the sea. Many cover his commission without understanding the dangerous nature of his work. All sailors know to take care with blasting powder, but daily contact with it means more and more chance of mishap. A mistake made wrapping powder or packing guns rarely gives a second chance. If you're lucky, you just lose a finger or three, but too often, it's fatal. Even those that don't blast themselves to bits usually lose their hearing. Though he does often have to ask people to repeat themselves. MacNaile's hearing seems mostly intact and he has all his fingers and toes. In fact, he often walks about barefoot. Dougal has defied the odds, becoming a legend, a sorto f patron saint of gunners for his survival. Each time the dust clears from an explosion, he jumps to his feet and has them load the next round. He'd have trouble finding a better post than the best-armed privateer vessel on the seas, with as many cannons as any ship of the line.  The Rhulic records date back over six millenia, making the dwarves the oldest and most stable continuous civilization in western Immoren. They have no thirst for conquest outside their mountains, primarily the Borokuhn, Silvertip Peaks and Glass Peaks - the highest and most treacherous in Immoren. Crossing the outer mountains means using dangerous, icy roads and trails made over the centuries, many of which lead to chokepoints, go under giant forts or twist around on themselves to allow watchers to observe them. While officialy natural for millenia, the Rhulfolk do keep a close eye on outsiders and periodically involve themselves. After the coming of the Orgoth, their determination to stay aloof was eroded, and near the end of the Reberllion, they shared their industry with the rebels, enabling the construction of the Colossals. This partnership gained Rhul the knowledge of cortex construction and blasting powder, and the dwarves became enthusiastic about mechanika and guns, incorporating them into many aspects of their culture, which has always enjoyed honorable battle. Interest in the south ahs increased in the last few centuries, as the dwarves are impressed by human innovation and trade prospects. Some clans are mercenary by nature, while others watch things abroad to keep track of threats to the homeland. After the signing of the Corvis Treaties, many younger clans set forth to find their fortune in the south. King Benewic the Bold, first king of Cygnar, and King Makaros Taranovi, first king of Khador, both agreed to allow settlement of dwarven enclaves in their borders. The agreements were made iwth the Stone Lords of Rhul in exchange for trading rights and access to Rhulic workers and craftsmen for rebuilding. Thousands of Rhulfolk emigrated to the southern lands' remote and difficult regions, which humans had little use for, to make self-sufficient Rhulic enclaves. They have become a common sight among humans, on and off the battlefield. While the Rhul are not interested in conquest, their clans seek profit and happily adopt human technology as it develops. It wasn't long before some of them started to sell their fighting skills, joining the mercenary tradition. In some parts of eastern Khador and the Upper Wyrmwall, mixed communities of humans and Rhulfolk exist, but recent tensions betwene Khador and Cygnar sometimes threaten them. Both kingdoms have many dwarves, and their neutrality can strain things, especially in Khador, where Rhul's trade with Cygnar is notorious and often prompts suspicion. Cygnaran dwarves sometimes suffer similarly, and human soldiers often resent giving safe haven to the Rhul while they refuse to help in the war. In Cygnar, these sentiments are largely reduced by dwarven help with infrastrucutre projects like railways or bridges, and the fact that the Rhulfolk produce the magelock pistols needed by the Militant ORder of the Arcane Tempest in the enclave near Ironhead Station. Next time: Hi ho, hi ho...
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Jul 23, 2015 18:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm no expert on the genre (which is why I left that part up to Kai Tave!), but my interpretation of the whole Magic Deer thing is that it creates a scenario where the heroes are in service of the crown, and the crown is unambiguously good. Yeah, there's a ton of plot hooks when the basic idea of your monarchy is 'the person picked is the best fit, but look! They need the help of brave heroes to overcome the manipulations of That rear end in a top hat Over There Who Thinks This Is Game Of Thrones or the scheming noble who the Deer walked right past. And maybe they need mentors in statescraft and poo poo' I had something similar come up with a character in a game who went from a militia conscript to a sergeant to getting picked by a magic crown to have to become an emperor and rebuild a ruined empire, and the entire second campaign in that setting was the PCs trying to help that former PC learn how the gently caress she was supposed to Emperor, because she'd only recently even learned to read. The crown chose her because she had the potential, not the current ability, basically, and I'm getting that's the deal with the deer.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:52
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Green Intern posted:Nobody wanted to be a dik-dik about it. wait how else is it pronounced
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Jul 23, 2015 19:07
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The Iron Rose posted:wait how else is it pronounced
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Jul 23, 2015 19:16
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The Iron Rose posted:wait how else is it pronounced SOON-day-ray, apparently. I also always thought it was tsun-DEER, but never bothered checking.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:17
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Night10194 posted:They need the help of brave heroes to overcome the manipulations of That rear end in a top hat Over There Who Thinks This Is Game Of Thrones or the scheming noble who the Deer walked right past. And maybe they need mentors in statescraft and poo poo'
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Jul 23, 2015 19:22
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I mentioned it earlier but it might have gotten lost in the rest of the post but twice in Aldis' history have sovereigns needed to be deposed. Once it was because battling demons afflicted her with something that eroded her sanity, but the other time was because the sovereign wound up becoming a no-fooling tyrant. The Golden Hart doesn't select based on omniscience. Yes, it's possible for the Golden Hart to select some nobody from nowhere untrained in statescraft to be the ruler of Aldis. This is sort of what happened with Jaellin. She's not really an untrained nobody but she's very young and certainly doesn't have a ton of experience ruling an entire kingdom. So why did the Hart choose her and not the king's son? The magic deer keeps its own council but presumably has its reasons. Personally I don't really see the problem with this given the profusion of random nobodies and minor players thrust into the spotlight running throughout fantasy fiction as a whole. It also doesn't really cut off plot hooks because A). the magic deer isn't infallible and the book takes the effort to spell this out for people who might get confused and B). most fantasy RPGs and the game groups that play them don't often give that much of a poo poo about noble politics in the first place. 99% of your typical D&D adventuring parties don't care how Lord King Dumblefuck got put on the throne, they just care if he can pay in full to have them kill the rats in his basement. To me this is why a lot of the fuss over the magic deer has always seemed like people blowing something way out of proportion for no reason other than to have a thing to point to and go "See! This sucks! Look at how this ruins so many things!" when in virtually any other game they couldn't care less otherwise about lines of succession. Speaking of which...  Chapter 1: The World of Aldea Virtually every culture has a creation myth, a story explaining how the world came to be and where they came from. You can learn a lot of things about a people by looking at their creation myths...what they value, what they fear, the things that shape their culture and beliefs. In fantasy games like Dungeons & Dragons those creation myths even have the virtue of often being objectively correct. The gods really did war with each other, Corellon really did put out Grummsh's eye with a spear and where his blood dripped onto the ground is where we get orcs from. Get to be a high enough level and you can even ask them to retell the story themselves. So with that in mind Blue Rose's first real chapter starts us off with a recounting of world's creation, and as expected it's one that's rather fitting for a romantic fantasy game. In the Beginning Before we get into mythmaking proper the book drops some hints about stuff we'll be sure to see come up later...the Old Kingdom, the Sorcerer Kings, and the Great Rebellion, all capitalized for emphasis. It's a universal law that anyone calling themselves a "Sorcerer King" is probably a huge rear end in a top hat, and Blue Rose upholds that fine tradition by having them be brutal tyrants who were defeated three centuries ago, presumably in that Great Rebellion that got mentioned. But all of that's for later. Right now we're going to talk about the Mythic Age and the creation of Aldea. Sages and storytellers the world over put their own spin on things, giving primacy to one god over another, their names and genders changing from one land to the next, but at the heart of it there are a number of common figures and events that more or less show up in most tellings. In the beginning was the Eternal Dance, a great congregation of the first souls dancing as one, surrounded by eternal twilight and the Sea of Possibility. Four of these souls desired to share their joy and know the satisfaction of creation and so they emerged from the Eternal Dance and decided to make themselves a world, because it's going to be a pretty short creation myth otherwise. These four were the Primordials, the gods of Twilight (with a capital T, this'll be important later) and balance as well as the patrons of the four seasons. The most common names for them are Selene (winter), Braniel (spring), Maurenna (summer), and Anwaren (autumn).  Symbolically coded for your convenience. Plunging into the Sea of Possibility they drew forth matter so that spirit could take form. They divided this matter into four elements and each took one to call their own (air for Selene, water for Braniel, fire for Maurenna, and earth for Anwaren) and used these to create the elementals to assist them. With the help of the elemental host they created Aldea or "the whole world" out of these four elements, shaping the earth, taming the wind and waves, creating rain and rivers, sprinkling the sky with stars, and breathing the fire of life into plants and animals. Selene looked to the world's future and saw that the happiness that was being crafted by her and her fellow Primordials wouldn't last forever and so she created the moon and hid the secrets of creation in it to be called upon by adepts in the future when the need arose. Of course the depth of these secrets would be enough to undo many who explored them too deeply, and this is why the moon is associated with both power and madness. quote:Drawn by the sparkling fruit of the Primordials’ labor, other souls emerged from the Dance. They descended into Aldea and cavorted amid its wonders. Still immortal and infinite, the souls took many forms, expressing themselves through matter for the first time. They flowed from form to form, with and without gender, with two legs and four, on land, in the sea, and in the air. They praised their siblings, and Aldea rang with the sound of their mirth. They would become the first mortals, their divinity dimmed by death. The Mythic Age: a lot like Second Life. But of course nothing can last forever, and a tale without conflict is a dull one indeed. It was Anwaren, relishing both the act of creation and the praise lavished upon him for his work, who began to feel the stirrings of jealousy within him as he began to covet the praise and adulation his siblings (okay I guess they're considered siblings, I was wondering about that) were receiving all for himself. Envy turned to obsession, but he knew that he had no chance of wresting control from his siblings given that there were three of them, all equal in power to himself, and that the souls cavorting about Aldea had no real interest in worshipping him. Since nothing within Aldea or the Sea of Possibility contained the answers he was searching for he decided to turn his search elsewhere. Unfortunately that search led him to the Shadow, a darkness beyond joy and life. Gazing too long into the abyss in his search for something to help elevate his power above the rest of the Primordials, the abyss gazed right back and Anwaren was stricken with madness, cast into confusion and doubt. quote:The impossibilities of limit and death impregnated him, and in great agony he gave birth to seven beings, the exarchs of Shadow, the lords of cunning and malice. The first, arch and beautiful, named himself Gravicarius and proceeded to name the other six, subjecting them to his will. You might be thinking to yourself "huh, Gravicarius is kind of a dumb name," but trust me, we'll be seeing much dumber later on. So the Exarchs are clearly bad news. Inheriting Anwaren's lust for power they spawned creatures to rule, heartless and soulless beings called darkfiends, left Anwaren behind in his madness, and ascended towards Aldea to drag both its inhabitants and the entire world into the Shadow. Selene, the Primordial with enough foresight to see something like this happening, gets royally pissed the gently caress off and throws herself between the world and the encroaching Shadow, "brandishing her shining sword and destroying darkfiends beyond number." So yeah, Selene's kind of a badass. But even she's not enough of a badass on her own to simultaneously defeat all seven Exarchs and save the world.  In the name of the moon, get hosed rear end in a top hat At this Maurenna wept seven tears and Braniel, thinking quickly, caught them within his Chalice of Bliss which I swear isn't a euphemism. As he sang the Eternal Song over it the Chalice shone brightly and from it were born the seven gods of Light led by Hiathas, the Lord of the Dance. So maybe it is a euphemism, come to think of it. As the gods stepped forth, droplets of divine water fell from their bodies to the earth and created the first unicorns and other creatures of Light. So we've got capital-letter Light, Twilight, and Shadow going on now and the more observant of you out there have probably figured out that this is going to be a big deal later. Now that the gods of Light are here the Exarchs start getting their asses kicked in earnest, getting cast back into the Shadow one after the other, but the three sane Primordials realize that during all of this Aldea and its inhabitants have been drifting so close to the Shadow that they're on the verge of oblivion. Maurenna and Braniel quickly begin weaving bodies for the souls inhabiting Aldea, anchoring them to the world though they awoke with no memory of their divine heritage. These were the first humans, vatazin, and sea-folk. Only the sea-folk retained a vague memory of a time when their form was fluid and manifold, awakening as androgynous and amphibious beings. Other souls were placed into the form of animals to be awakened by the unicorns, and these were the first rhydan called to defend the world against the Shadow. Meanwhile Selene, who's still a badass, refused to allow the Shadow to claim so much as a single soul, so while all this was going on she crafted the Wheel of Reincarnation and set it spinning. Mortal creatures might die but the Wheel would deny the Shadow its prize, and on every spoke she carved an eternal secret so that in time the souls might remember their original nature and rejoin the Eternal Dance once more. But Tyrexxis, the Exarch of wrath, hadn't yet been banished, being locked in an ongoing battle with Aulora, goddess of justice. He caught a glimpse of the Wheel of Reincarnation and grasped what it meant, casting Aulora aside and making to destroy it. Though Selene drove him away he was able to attack and unbalance it despite Selene's attempts to repair the damage. This lingering imbalance between life and death would later allow sorcerers to create the unliving. Aulora chased Tyrexxis back to his siblings where the goddess Goia bound them in great shackles. There they found Anwaren, still lost in madness, and the two goddesses helped to soothe his madness and bring him back to his siblings. Meanwhile the Exarchs began to turn on each other, chiding Gravicarius (who it turns out is the Exarch of pride) for not delivering them the victory he promised. Maurenna and Braniel worked together and restored Anwaren's sanity, and in remorse for what he'd done he vowed to partner with Aulora in teaching the first mortals to oppose Tyranny and also ordained that his season would be a short one each year to help keep him from falling to temptation again, voluntarily allowing himself to be diminished and resurrected every year. The other Primordials decided "hey, seasons, we should get ourselves one of those" and followed suit, welcoming Anwaren back into the fold. quote:To commemorate their victory over the exarchs of Shadow and as a sign of hope for the renewed world, Hiathas hung the sun in the sky, and so was born day and night and the beginning of time. Teal Deer So remember what I said about creation myths and cultures? So let's take a look at what happens in this one. What's the big source of conflict? What's the thing that drives one of the Primordials to inadvertently betray the others and nearly feed the entire world to the Shadow? Envy, greed, and a desire for power. Simple enough so far, though it's worth noting that Anwaren didn't intend to birth the Exarchs and lead to a ferocious war that nearly destroyed the world, he wasn't a bad guy right from the outset, it was simply a consequence of opening himself to the corrupting nature of the Shadow. You've probably guessed by now that Shadow is a corrupting force that player-characters are going to have to watch out for and so this is important right here. But now let's look at the rest of it. A war in heaven is nothing new, but look at what the story focuses on. Yes, gods and Exarchs battle each other, but the details of the actual fighting are largely nonexistent and glossed over. What's actually important here are the acts of cooperation and creation...Maurenna and Braniel working together to create the gods and the mortals, Selene creating the Wheel of Reincarnation and robbing the Shadow of its victory, this is what's crucial as opposed to so-and-so battling such-and-such or who destroyed what. Even at the end there's little in the way of outright glorification of slaughter. The Exarchs are imprisoned, not killed, and Anwaren is neither slain nor left to fester in his madness but rescued by those with compassion, brought back to sanity by those who care for him, and reunited with his siblings once more, making amends and vowing not to repeat the mistakes of his past. In a lot of creation stories someone like Anwaren might be killed or run off to become some dark and malevolent force spoken only of in hushed whispers, but here he's got an integral role to play in the world and killing or banishing him would probably be disastrous. Everything in this creation myth is an effective encapsulation of the themes that Blue Rose is aiming for. Cooperation, creation, seeking an end to things that doesn't involve endless combat or outright murder, allowing for forgiveness and compassion and not simply judging others as beyond salvation, while still allowing plenty of room for heroes to battle the forces of evil whenever they should arise to threaten those things worth fighting to protect. In that regard I think it does a nice job of setting the tone for things to come. Gods and Other Gods Now that we know the story of Aldea's creation the book provides us with an overview of the pantheons we've been introduced to and discusses their various areas of influence and veneration, though True20 doesn't really have a Paladin or Cleric class as such so this is less about choosing whose team colors your character is going to adopt (though you certainly could pledge yourself to one of them if you wanted to) and more about giving you an idea of the role that the gods play in Aldean society. (As a note, every deity is referred to in the text as "god of [SOMETHING]" whether their aspects are primarily masculine or feminine, the term goddess almost never appears. So if you see the word goddess anywhere, that's probably me.) First up we have the Twilight Gods or the Primordials who were the stars of the show earlier. They created the world and they're associated with fundamental primal forces like the elements, the seasons, nature, life, death, community, and so on. Their appearance and depiction tends to vary from culture to culture more often than the gods of Light, taking on either gender or neither. They're venerated throughout Aldea but mortals don't really have the same degree of affection for them as they do the gods of Light...it's more of a distant relationship sort of thing. The Primordials are fine with that, their concern is simply maintaining the balance of the world while awaiting for everyone to remember their forgotten divinity and rejoin the Eternal Dance. Selene, besides being a badass, is the god of winter, the moon, death, and secrets. She's the Wise Woman, the Winter Witch, and the Keeper of Secrets, and in her primary male aspects is Father Frost and the Winter Wizard. She's invoked at funerals, students of the arcane arts look to her for guidance and power, and during harsh winters people entreat her to be merciful. She's often depicted bearing the Blade of Wisdom. Braniel is the god of spring, the stars, rain, music, animals, and plants. He's the Singer in the Stars and Green Beard, and in his primary female aspect is the Spring Princess. He's venerated in woodland shrines and atop hills by those thankful for their bounty, rain rituals invoke his name as do rituals for sexual potency which I promise aren't actually detailed anywhere in the book. Musicians also turn to him for inspiration. He's the lover of the god of Light Hiathas which we'll get to in a second, and the pair of them are considered a model for passionate romance. He's portrayed bearing the Chalice of Bliss. Maurenna is the god of summer, agriculture, and community. She's the Summer Queen and the Architect of Civilization, and in her primary male aspect is the Grain Lord. She's considered the mother of the gods of Light. People who farm or tend livestock call upon her, and civic events and family gatherings are often opened with her name. During hot summers people joke that Maurenna is loving the world just a bit too much. The god of Light Leonoth is her consort and together they're considered a model of marriage. She's portrayed bearing the Rod of Blooms. Anwaren is the god of autumn, the earth, mountains, sovereignty, and appropriately enough strife. He's the Warrior King, the Red Knight, and the Lord of Madness, and in his primary female aspect is the Queen of the Harvest. He's the father of the Exarchs and opposes them whenever he can. It's said he dies on the last day of autumn when the spirits of the dead are the strongest, and rises again when Braniel pours the waters of life upon him. He's invoked by people beset by strife or madness and by those seeking the riches of the earth, and he's considered a model of kingship having voluntarily diminished his own power to avoid becoming a tyrant. He's portrayed holding the Pentacle of Plenty. Next up are the gods of Light who are much more your traditional D&D style pantheon. Interestingly enough the gods of Light are actually younger than the world rather than the other way around, but they're no less venerated because of it. The gods of Light are each associated with one of the seven virtues and is the patron of a core aspect of mortal culture such as dance, law, travelers, and so on. They have varied aspects, but fewer of them than the Twilight gods do. And because they're the everlasting enemies of the Shadow, they're called upon by those faced by darkfiends or vice for strength and guidance.  Man, class pictures are always the worst. Hiathas is the firstborn god of the sun, beauty, dance, and hope. He's the Dawn Prince and Lord of the Dance, and he's said to be more beautiful than anything except the Eternal Dance itself. Artists and especially dancers seek his beauty. He's the beloved of Braniel, and those who fall in love with someone of the same sex are said to be caria daunen or "lovers of the dawn." Leonoth is the god of the hearth, family, and faithfulness, is the Faithful Husband, and consort of Maurenna (maybe it's a common-law marriage, I don't know). He protects families, homes, and those who keep faith. People who love someone of the opposite sex are said to guard the hearth fire as he does and are cepia luath or "keepers of the flame." In the nation of Jarzon rebellion against the Sorcerer Kings was apparently exceedingly dangerous and often deadly, and the leaders of the resistance gathered secret meetings around hearth fires as they plotted the downfall of their oppressors. Because of this association, and the grievous loss of life they suffered, Jarzon has become somewhat obsessed with family and procreation. There Leonoth is called the Liberator, Great Lord, and Keeper of the Holy Flame, and is the preeminent god of the Church of the Pure Light. Felisar is the god of travelers, people in peril, the poor, the sick, and charity, and is the Bringer of Miracles. According to legend he wanders the world each winter when the poor suffer the most, and because he's Selene's favorite he uses his influence to protect the destitute and desperate from her chill. Travelers and the ailing turn to him for comfort and a lot of charity is done in his name. Aulora is the god of law, soldiers, and justice, and is the Shield Maiden and Wise Judge. She's called upon by those who create and enforce laws, soldiers who believe their cause to be just, and the unjustly imprisoned look to her for mercy. When Anwaren becomes beset with doubt she calms him with reason just as she did before, and when he falls each year she turns to the arms of Goia. The two goddesses are together referred to as the builders of civilization. Goia is the god of artisanship, commerce, and prudence, and is the Smith, the Builder, and the Artisan. Merchants pray for her prudence while artisans pray for her skill. Builders, shipwrights, and mathematicians all invoke her name. She loves both Anwaren and Aulora in equal measure, forging a crown for one and a sword for the other, and when Anwaren falters while it's Aulora who soothes him it's Goia who carries him. Gaelenir is the god of exploration, learning, the sea, and fortitude, is the Great Sage, Sea Lord, and Teacher. Sailors and explorers call on him, and the sea-folk are his special children (because duh). He dwells by the Well of Knowledge at the bottom of the sea and seeks to know all things, and in legend he withstood the temptations of all seven Exarchs so he could explore their realm. Selene keeps secrets but Gaelenir uncovers them, and storms blowing in from the sea are said to be the two of them arguing over how much to reveal to the world. They're also said to harbor a secret love that will only be consummated when all souls return to the Eternal Dance. Athne is the god of good fortune, wine, plenty, and temperance, and is the Mother of Plenty and Lady of the Vine. People who have plenty, or who desire it, pray to her, as do vintners and merry-makers. When Gaelenir, seeking to understand each of the gods, asked her for the meaning of temperance, she laughed and said, “Enough, or too much." She appears in various aspects across innumerable tales as an occasional lover of the other gods. There's also a fiction sidebar! Lorena's twin girls are begging their mother to tell them the story about the birth of Lord Hiathas, which is their favorite story not only because it includes the first unicorn but because they enjoy teasing their older brother who has a boyyyyyfriend, oooooh. First we have a pair of gods engaged in a same-sex relationship and now this. Blue Rose's insidious promotion of the gay agenda marches unstoppably onward. Oh, and remember the Exarchs? Yeah, they're still around, dwelling in the Shadow and up to no good. They spawn darkfiends to ruin everyone's day and seek to tempt people into vice, and while the gods of Light oppose them their power and cunning are both vast. Only the "malicious and insane" worship them, or in lands like Kern where followers of the Lich King proclaim them as the "true gods" because they're older than the gods of Light (by like five minutes, jeez, stop rubbing it in). The Exarchs' followers give them grand, improbable titles and engage in unspeakable rites. So basically they're Abyssal Exalted. And I'll just quote this bit: quote:Little is known about the exarchs in Aldis, beside their names and domains. The first among them is Gravicarius, exarch of pride. He ruled the exarchs in the beginning, but the seven fell into backstabbing and spite after their defeat at the hands of the gods of Light. The others are Tyrexxus, exarch of wrath; Ulasta, exarch of envy; In’nassi, exarch of lust; Viasta, exarch of sloth; Yungo, exarch of gluttony; and Mytaxx, exarch of greed. Yungo! Who the heck names their dark god Yungo? Or Mytaxx. This is some George Lucas level nomenclature going on, and I for one don't feel like I could seriously worship a dark pantheon with names like this, so that whole bit about the Exarchs' worshippers coming up with flowery titles for them makes a whole lot more sense. And that brings us to the end of the Mythic Age. I'm going to need to break this first chapter up into multiple updates because there's a lot of stuff to cover, so gradenko_2000 might not have a lot to talk about for a bit (though he's more than welcome to), but don't worry because when we get to chapter 2 that's going to be all about crunch, so stay tuned. Next Time: Back when magic was BIG and IN YOUR FACE, someone hosed UP and BROKE IT and now everything SUCKS. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 20:17
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Evil Mastermind posted:I would just like to go on record and say that I have actually, successfully played HoL. Just once for me, and I think we collectively lost a decade of life to the Church & Munch Orange drink we mixed up for the occasion. Highlight of the game was a homebrew character named Ripley, the only woman on HoL. She was mechanically identical to the men, save for having a While we went in with eyes open, knowing it was going to be a one-shot that would end in... something or another, the slightly younger high school kids we knew mostly through LARP took it much more seriously, if the stories I heard about lunchtime rules arguments and campaign planning were real. Also I'm old, and when I see 'Great Rebellion', I immediately think She-Ra again. Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 20:17
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Kai Tave posted:Good satires are usually a good example of the thing they're making a satire of, no question. My point of contention isn't with HoL's quality as a satire, it's with you characterizing it as a "dick move" that HoL is (probably intentionally) lovely as an actual game, like the authors were somehow trying to fool the reader into going "no seriously, this'll totally all work with no problems, go ahead and get a group together" only to yank the football away while laughing as you discover that no, actually it's a mess. HoL is not an especially subtle book. Someone who sits down to read HoL and doesn't understand what they're getting into has bigger problems than missing character creation rules. Grnegsnspm posted:The discussion about satire and if it works or not made me realize what the game actually reminds me of. It's the RPG equivalent of Scary Movie and its (Blank) Movie ilk. It is sold to you as a comedy that is a satire of genre conventions but ends up being the lowest effort poop and dick humor slapped onto endless "jokes" that are actually just references to things in pop culture. In the same way that Epic Movie doesn't hold together as a cohesive piece of cinema, HOL doesn't really stand up as being a cohesive, playable game. I hate both of these things but at least one of those lovely movies is done in 90 minutes and I can dick around on my phone during it. I had to actually spend hours reading HOL while it stupidly invited me to laugh at monkey cheese "mature" humor and references to such timely pop culture icons of 1994 as Elvis and the Silver Surfer. This. The sign of a good parody is that the parody is actually pretty good in and of itself, because the people behind it had enough knowledge and love about the genre. Seltzerberg stuff on the other hand is literally "Let's repeat stuff seen in trailers of movies that aren't even out yet in a very annoying and screechy way". Kai Tave posted:I don't really get it either myself, but a number of vocal Blue Rose critics really latched onto the Golden Hart as a representative symbol of everything wrong with the game. I'm still, to this day, not really sure what it is that they object to so strenuously about it. Is it the idea of an otherworldly force appointing who gets to be the sovereign? Well, that's how kings and queens have historically justified why they're entitled to rule, the whole "divine right" business, and most of them don't even do you the courtesy of having those claims be provably correct and witnessed by hundreds of people. Is it that the Hart's decisions seem arbitrary to someone on the outside looking in? I guess I could see that, but to be honest it's not like "we'll just keep passing rulership down to people from certain bloodlines no matter how incompetent they might be" has shown itself to be a foolproof way of choosing competent, effective leaders, so I'm not really sure that "we let a magic deer choose who gets to be king (or queen)" is demonstrably worse in that regard. I'm curious about the new excuses to hate on the next edition. Gamergate birthed a lot of view-crazy trolls (and deluded nutjobs who see this whole thing as a friggin' war) eager for new material. Xelkelvos posted:There is a Bronze Age, but it's not all that particularly notable compared to the Silver Age before it and the Dark/Iron Age after it since a lot of the more important Bronze Age stuff was the introduction of more diverse characters or the handling or more serious topics like drug abuse but with superheroes. The age after sorta ramped it up by going to even further extremes instead of the more sober take on the topics. I would say the Bronze Age is rather important to distinguish between "super whacky Adam West shenanigans with too much exposition and random transformations " and "normal stuff". Super Console  Time for the last couple pages! Monster Addendum Some short bits left over from the monster chapter. Thought it was getting a bit long. Experience Points As mentioned, Experience is tracked in yet another bar that goes to 100%. It is filled by comparing the difference between the average level of the monsters with the average level of the party, modified depending on the difference in numbers (so defeating a group twice as large hands out double the XP, while 4 dudes defeating a single monster cuts the profit down to 1/4). If the calculation gets a bit out of hand, just wing it. Bosses are handled differently, as they just level the party up without touching the Experience Bar. In essence, the party levels up every four battle encounters, leading to roughly 1-2 level ups per game session. Next up are more detailed rules for spending Patience to fast forward boring grinding. Leveling (2 points of Patience) The party keeps grinding in the same area until they level up (again without touching the Experience Bar). Aside from the Patience cost, the party will have to spend one potion of appropriate power per character, one status-fixing item per character, and one Tent and Phoenix Down in total (all to simulate the stuff they spend during the grind). Levelling can only be done once per area, as the monsters are considered to weak after that to be worth the effort. Looting (1 point of Patience) This represents the party barging into everyone's house and taking everything not bolted to the ground. This can also be done in castles and cleared-out dungeons (which offer better rewards). For obvious reasons, this can also only be done once per area. Rewards for looting include cash, restorative items and a piece of equipment. Castles and dungeons offer roughly twice the loot, with a good chance for an accessory or better equipment. CPU Advice This chapter starts off with some pre-game preparation (pretty standard stuff, all in all) and advice for those Tasked Games where the party requires items to learn/use new stuff. The Console Story Cycle This represents the basic way console RPGs tell their story: the party arrives at a new location, plot happens, a boss is fought and the party travels to a next location to repreat the cycle. There are of course variations to be found. Sometimes there is no boss, and sidequests can be found to break up the cycle a little. Other areas have the heroes travel multiple times before something significant happens. Power Levels This section features two tables showing the typical damage dealth by magical and physical classes per level. In an interesting twist from the "Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizzard" trope, magicians actually start off with higher raw damage output (since spell damage doesn't use one of those averaging formulas involving the caster's level), but physical fighters take over around level 15. And that's not even going into the double-hit ability every dedicated warrior gets. Time Travel To keep it short: Use it only as a plot device. Never give the party unrestricted access to time travel. Think Chrono Trigger. The Main Villain The big bad guy. The most important character after the player characters. He should be menacing and carefully planned out. Each Main Villain needs to have a good motivation, a plan, and enough power to pull it off. The example writeup for the Main Villain assumes a party of level 75. The Main Villain is a level 100 monster of unknown type (or rather "None of your business"), with Primary Attributes at 80 (aside from Speed, which is 99) and Secondary Attributes between 100 (Evasion) and 150 (Attack Skill) - not including Status Resistance which is 1,000 (aka any Status Effect that does work on bosses just bounces off of him 99% of the time, no matter what). Strangely, the writeup ommits Toughness and Initiative, though that can be fudged (both is probably around 80 or so, possibly with a +5 or +10 bonus). Ability-wise, the Main Villain can use every White, Black and Time Magic spell (excluding Life III and Cure IV, as that would be OP). His chances to resist status effects is doubled (aka don't even bother). He takes double damage from one element (usually Holy), but only half from all the others. Black Mages pretty much suck against the Main Villain (unless Drain and Absorb work at full effect). Other casters will certainly run into problems if the Main Villain keeps casting Reflect (and why wouldn't he?). As if that wasn't enough, killing him usually has him come back in his True Form, which tends to be even more powerful. Once the Main Villain is down for good, it's time to either prepare for a sequel, or just have an epilogue to show the fates of the heroes. And that's it for Super Console. I can definitely recommend it much more than Returners. It has just the right amount of crunch for a light-hearted or serious game. Needs some houseruling to cover more unorthodox console-stuff like Shin Megami Tensei, but that's to be expected. Next Time: Before I return to more Crawford goodness, I'll tackle Super Console's supplement. Should really only take 3 posts at the most. Doresh fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 20:30
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The 'Golden Deer' method is tonally accurate for the fiction the game is trying to represent. I got no problem with it. The last time I used True20/Blue Rose was for a corrupted Land of Oz game (The Nome King had won). It worked great for that.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:43
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Doresh posted:I'm curious about the new excuses to hate on the next edition. Gamergate birthed a lot of view-crazy trolls (and deluded nutjobs who see this whole thing as a friggin' war) eager for new material. I've tried to avoid mentioning the dreaded "G-word" as I'm sure it will come to be known in the blasted post-apocalyptic future of the 2030s, but looking back on the the way some people got bent out of shape over Blue Rose the reaction was similar to a very prototypical, early-stage Gamergate-esque "taking a stand against the SJWs (which also wasn't a term back then) trying to encroach on our hobby." Some of it was people (like the Pundit) being dumb, crazy assholes, but some of it was also people being vaguely uneasy and off-put by an RPG that didn't fit the typical fantasy game mold, some of whom viewed the game as pushing an agenda in the process. You got some "I'm not a homophobe but do we really need RPGs mentioning gay couples all over the place?" and some "what's all this romance business, I don't want to pretend-date my gaming buddies" and people rolling their eyes over fantasy with psychic talking unicorns and stuff because that sort of thing was "too silly," too girly, whatever.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:44
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Kai Tave posted:four elements and each took one to call their own (air for Selene, water for Braniel, fire for Maurenna, and air for Anwaren) I believe you mean "earth for Anwaren". Otherwise, how are they going to form Captain Planet and defeat the Shadow? (Everyone has Heart as a pity feat.)
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Jul 23, 2015 21:10
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Plague of Hats posted:I believe you mean "earth for Anwaren". Otherwise, how are they going to form Captain Planet and defeat the Shadow? (Everyone has Heart as a pity feat.) Fixed, thanks. Also it's spelled "Hart."
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Jul 23, 2015 21:17
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Kai Tave posted:Fixed, thanks. Also it's spelled "Hart."  I have been bested!
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Jul 23, 2015 21:29
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Everything in Blue Rose seems to be on the level and yeah, it's nice to see a creation myth where there is forgiveness and reconciliation. I think I'm seeing why people hated it though and it's not for good reasons. gradenko_2000 posted:I'm no expert on the genre (which is why I left that part up to Kai Tave!), but my interpretation of the whole Magic Deer thing is that it creates a scenario where the heroes are in service of the crown, and the crown is unambiguously good. This is kind of funny in hindsight because it seems pretty clear you should never join the Shadow.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:31
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I'm willing to overlook the whole "preserve the status quo of royalty" given the trappings of the genre in general and the specific works Blue Rose is drawing on. I could see an interesting plot hook being the formation of the earliest sorts of a republican or democratic system: magic deer chooses the sovereign, but perhaps it's time to establish a council of lords or the like.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:42
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Hypocrisy posted:This is kind of funny in hindsight because it seems pretty clear you should never join the Shadow. This is kinda like "Evil alignments suck because you know your souls is effed in the afterlife." Kai Tave posted:I've tried to avoid mentioning the dreaded "G-word" as I'm sure it will come to be known in the blasted post-apocalyptic future of the 2030s, but looking back on the the way some people got bent out of shape over Blue Rose the reaction was similar to a very prototypical, early-stage Gamergate-esque "taking a stand against the SJWs (which also wasn't a term back then) trying to encroach on our hobby." Some of it was people (like the Pundit) being dumb, crazy assholes, but some of it was also people being vaguely uneasy and off-put by an RPG that didn't fit the typical fantasy game mold, some of whom viewed the game as pushing an agenda in the process. You got some "I'm not a homophobe but do we really need RPGs mentioning gay couples all over the place?" and some "what's all this romance business, I don't want to pretend-date my gaming buddies" and people rolling their eyes over fantasy with psychic talking unicorns and stuff because that sort of thing was "too silly," too girly, whatever. My money's on it being called "The Event" or "It" (as in "Back when it happened" or "... and then it happened."). Oh well, if anything, the internet taught me that even introverted weirdoes like myself are perfectly normal in comparison to way too many internet users.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:46
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Cythereal posted:I'm willing to overlook the whole "preserve the status quo of royalty" given the trappings of the genre in general and the specific works Blue Rose is drawing on. I could see an interesting plot hook being the formation of the earliest sorts of a republican or democratic system: magic deer chooses the sovereign, but perhaps it's time to establish a council of lords or the like. It's funny you should say this because Blue Rose already kind of has you covered there. The sovereign of Aldis isn't an absolute monarch, and while it might be an update or two before I can get into the politics of modern Aldis proper I'll say that for a monarchy it's far more egalitarian than most fantasy monarchies (or actual historical monarchies for that matter) tend to be.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:46
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Cythereal posted:I'm willing to overlook the whole "preserve the status quo of royalty" given the trappings of the genre in general and the specific works Blue Rose is drawing on. I could see an interesting plot hook being the formation of the earliest sorts of a republican or democratic system: magic deer chooses the sovereign, but perhaps it's time to establish a council of lords or the like. Well, Aldis isn't a strict monarchy anyway. The noble class (appointed with the Blue Rose Scepter in a manner similar to how the Hart chooses the monarch) elect a council. The council advises the ruler and votes on policy. EFBBBBBB
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Jul 23, 2015 21:52
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Kai Tave posted:B). most fantasy RPGs and the game groups that play them don't often give that much of a poo poo about noble politics in the first place. 99% of your typical D&D adventuring parties don't care how Lord King Dumblefuck got put on the throne, they just care if he can pay in full to have them kill the rats in his basement. To me this is why a lot of the fuss over the magic deer has always seemed like people blowing something way out of proportion for no reason other than to have a thing to point to and go "See! This sucks! Look at how this ruins so many things!" when in virtually any other game they couldn't care less otherwise about lines of succession. I think you might be a bit off there, if anything I think that a lot of the grogs angry about Blue Rose might care too much, in particular they probably care that it's TOO SOFT and not GRIM ENOUGH, WHY CAN'T IT BE MORE LIKE GAME OF THRONES? WHY DOESN'T SOMEONE JUST KILL THE HART? Also I like the fact that the Gods of Light, despite being of the same number as the Exarchs, aren't just inverted versions of them, they didn't just go for some dull symmetry.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:53
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PurpleXVI posted:I think you might be a bit off there, if anything I think that a lot of the grogs angry about Blue Rose might care too much, in particular they probably care that it's TOO SOFT and not GRIM ENOUGH, WHY CAN'T IT BE MORE LIKE GAME OF THRONES? WHY DOESN'T SOMEONE JUST KILL THE HART? What I mean is that the people complaining about Blue Rose's venisonocracy probably weren't similarly impassioned over, say, the various lines of succession and forms of government in the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk, and in most D&D gaming groups how the king of such-and-such gets put on the throne is probably, at most, a background detail that never really matters in the course of actual play. But for some reason the fact that Aldis' sovereign gets picked by a divine, otherworldly force that just happens to take the form of a magic deer is a huge problem, and I'm inclined to think that it's only a problem because people upset about Blue Rose were looking for any and everything they could point to and decry as bad.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:02
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System Mastery Bonus Additional Extra Funpack 5 Pretty much every White Wolf property except Aeon Trinity and Exalted silo Ability scores. nWoD still does it.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:08
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By the by, which podcast episode is the origin of Cheese Dudes? I haven't come across it yet.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:13
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Blue Rose is one of those things I heard about and it sounded kinda neat to follow that kind of romantic fantasy when I just saw the pitch on paper. I'm glad to hear more about it and honestly any game that says "hey, maybe try an actual conversation with someone to fix a problem instead of just wandering off to go see if you can hock the king's pumpkins for money to hire peasants to build that railgun" is a little cool. And I'm liking the fluff so far! Kinda bummed to know that it runs on d20 but I'd totally steal the setting and themes and poo poo for a more storytelling game that has, like, narrative power on its side for the players.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:16
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Halloween Jack posted:By the by, which podcast episode is the origin of Cheese Dudes? I haven't come across it yet. It was in Afterthought episode 2 where it started as a joke that I was unwilling to explain to the audience. Plague of Hats posted:System Mastery Bonus Additional Extra Funpack 5 Huh, I could have sworn that they stopped doing that in the new edition stuff. Shows me for not having actually picked up any of the nWoD books. Grnegsnspm fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 22:29
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Grnegsnspm posted:It was in Afterthought episode 2 where it started as a joke that I was unwilling to explain to the audience. If anything it got worse, cause in the new edition stuff each ability is siloed into either Physical, Social, or Mental. And then each silo has a "Strength" "Dexterity" and "Resistance" trait.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:36
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Grnegsnspm posted:It was in Afterthought episode 2 where it started as a joke that I was unwilling to explain to the audience. The abilities are siloed like that? Weird. I knew they were still doing it with the attributes, which I don't think I've ever played a game where that wasn't houseruled the hell out. But since I haven't read Vampire (gasp) I didn't know abilities were ever like that, except for Street Fighter.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:37
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God, the Star Wars RPG podcast you guys did just killed. I was driving when Jon started doing his impression of the Imperial Probe droid and I swear I almost got into a car accident I was so blinded by tears.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:44
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I don't want to sound like a queer or nothin, but magic deer really kick hind.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:46
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