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It isn't cyberpunk, but Deus Ex does owe a lot to Illuminatus! so you should probably give that a read.
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Jul 23, 2015 12:46
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chrisoya posted:It isn't cyberpunk, but Deus Ex does owe a lot to Illuminatus! so you should probably give that a read. The original Deus Ex owes a shitload to The Man Who Was Thursday as well, so read that. Hell, read TMWWT anyway.
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Jul 23, 2015 13:37
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Evfedu posted:I was aware of Jack Vance in the way that he was the guy who invited the D&D magic system, but is any of his stuff worth reading?. Absolutely. He's got an unique style that's well worth experiencing. If you want to try his fantasy, I'd suggest either The Eyes of the Overworld (if you can deal with a protagonist who's a scheming rear end in a top hat) or Lyonesse: Suldrun's Garden. If you'd rather read SF, his Demon Princes series (Star King et al) or Planet of Adventure books (City of the Chasch etc) are great adventure stories, and The Languages of Pao is an interesting exploration of how language shapes culture and perception. Furism posted:What would be a good cyber-punk read? Something like Shadowrun but not Shadowrun. Also, not Blade Runner. I'd like something rather recent (as in, not with the kind of future technology as a 50's writer would imagine it ; it's cute but not what I'm going for). Something along the lines of Deus Ex. I'll sneak in a recommendation for Norman Spinrad's Little Heroes here.
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Jul 23, 2015 13:49
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DigitalRaven posted:The original Deus Ex owes a shitload to The Man Who Was Thursday as well, so read that. Hell, read TMWWT anyway. Hell, TMWWT shows up as readable books in that game!
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Jul 23, 2015 15:08
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I liked The Man Who Was Thursday up until the end, where it gets a little too trippy.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:10
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Coca Koala posted:I finished the second Max Gladstone book and moved right on to the third. I didn't know it, but I've been waiting a long time for a series that treats magic and religion as applications of contract law. Gladstone is great. You'll also be happy to hear that his most recent book, Last First Snow, returns to ("Dresidiel") LAX - it's a prequel to Two Serpents Rise. I hate prequels usually, but this one was really good, and I'm gonna have to reread Two Serpents Rise now.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:14
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Kesper North posted:Gladstone is great. You'll also be happy to hear that his most recent book, Last First Snow, returns to ("Dresidiel") LAX - it's a prequel to Two Serpents Rise. I hate prequels usually, but this one was really good, and I'm gonna have to reread Two Serpents Rise now. Not only that, Temoc is one of the main viewpoints -- which had me worried that it'd be hard to say more about him after TSR -- but I think, probably by virtue of previously seeing him primarily through the eyes of his son, this works. It was interesting to see the King in Red in LFS, compared with what we see of him in TSR -- he's mellowed out a bit over the years, it seems. And of course he was introduced in a single reference in Three Parts Dead, at which point the name was just a bit of background flavor (at least for the readers).
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Jul 23, 2015 15:36
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Megazver posted:Oh god. Are they leaking into anglosphere?  angel opportunity posted:I'm not a huge fan of Sanderson, but I think his books--while too long--are well plotted and have compelling narrative arcs. His prose isn't amazing, and his magic system obsession can rightly be compared to DnD or videogame rulesets, but if you put me on a plane with only a Sanderson novel to read, I would read it and probably still enjoy it. I finished the whole two books of Stormlight and enjoyed it okay. I don't tend to recommend him to many people though because I do really feel he just makes these way longer than they need to be. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 15:44
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Selachian posted:Absolutely. He's got an unique style that's well worth experiencing. Absolutely worth reading, I agree. His style is a little bit archaic (for SF/F), which can be a bit off-putting at times, but he's a great storyteller so it's worth sticking with even if the writing occasionally frustrates you.
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Jul 23, 2015 16:44
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Ornamented Death posted:I think you read way, way too deep into those comments. Also, you missed my point, which was that Jack Vance popularized the dying earth story, not Gene Wolfe, as Evfedu indicated originally; I wasn't just randomly naming an author that has written that kind of story. Eh, maybe you're right, but it was still a pretty bad set of posts in a row. Dead right about Vance though. Speaking of whom Kalman posted:Absolutely worth reading, I agree. His style is a little bit archaic (for SF/F), which can be a bit off-putting at times, but he's a great storyteller so it's worth sticking with even if the writing occasionally frustrates you. Not archaic in a forsoothy godwottery way though, maybe dandified would be a better word? I enjoy his style and wouldn't say it's offputting so much as the big draw of his books.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:13
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Quinton posted:Not only that, Temoc is one of the main viewpoints -- which had me worried that it'd be hard to say more about him after TSR -- but I think, probably by virtue of previously seeing him primarily through the eyes of his son, this works. The King in Red came across like the sort of autistic nerd libertarian disruptor type who thinks
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Jul 23, 2015 17:26
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So I just finished Walter Jon Williams's This is Not a Game and enjoyed it pretty well. In particular, it's a book that brought up some parallels to Ready Player One in that it is about geeks and a game--though here the geeks are running (as well as sort of playing) the game. It drops a few little nerdy references here and there, but that's where the similarity really stops. TINAG is set in a world that is basically our world instead of a dystopian hellhole. Its stakes are lower (the protagonist is not trying to win the internet) but the threat and tension in the book is more immediate (her actual life is threatened rather than her game avatar), and carefully built. Dagmar Shaw is more likeable than whatever nerd boy in RPO was called, though her character is still a bit flatter than I would prefer. At the least she shows a lot of cleverness that doesn't feel forced, nor does it rely on her extensive vocabulary of 80s pop culture to solve her problems. The central conceit is an Altered Reality Game or ARG and events surrounding and including it, and blurring of the lines between what is and is not suitable entertainment. I felt the game/story plotline parallels were sometimes a bit forced, but overall it flowed together pretty well and some of the really not okay things the characters do related to the game/not-game are addressed. It uses its geek cred carefully to reinforce and explain the plot and characters, rather than showing off the ability to read wikipedia, and the ARG player comments added a certain amount of winky levity and playfulness that keeps the story from getting too full of itself. I guess there're two sequels now, Deep State and The Fourth Wall which I think I will be checking out at some point.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:44
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While skimming the last few pages of name calling, something someone said jumped out to me. When did writing "The story so far..." prologues fall out of style? I remember older series' having these, but in the modern era of massive epic series', why do authors not do this anymore? It seems like it's needed more than ever! In particular, I just finished the last Raven's Shadow book Queen of Fire, and while I didn't hate it like a lot of people did, I felt it really suffered from this. There were so many characters and plot points I couldn't remember I found myself skimming certain chapters. I dread picking up the next aSoIaF book (whenever Martin finally finishes it) for this very reason. syphon fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 19:02
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It's really hard to be a god
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Jul 23, 2015 19:21
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syphon posted:While skimming the last few pages of name calling, something someone said jumped out to me. When did writing "The story so far..." prologues fall out of style? I remember older series' having these, but in the modern era of massive epic series', why do authors not do this anymore? It seems like it's needed more than ever! You try to summarize a single volume of ASOIAF or Malazan in a page and a half, without your head exploding. I guess writers would rather farm the work out to fan-made wikis. Stephen R. Donaldson, at least, still does "What Has Gone Before" sections in the Thomas Covenant series.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:42
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Antti posted:Even the Locke Lamora world has the elder race who disappeared mysteriously and left their cities behind. You could even go as far as to say Numenor in Tolkien's legendarium is the antecedent for fantasy and Atlantis in turn is the antecedent for the entire concept.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:44
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Yeah, I didn't mean it's literally the same thing, but just another example of the lost civilization theme.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:52
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Just finished Aurora. I've only read 2312 and Years of Rice and Salt, so I can't compare it to the Mars Trilogy, but it's absolutely the best KSR book I've read so far (and I'm one of the people who had far fewer problems with 2312 than most people). Especially enjoyed the literal volte-face made after the discovery of Aurora's fatal flaws, which came as a total and genuine shock to me, and the ultimate fingerpointing at the people who launched the expedition itself as totally bonkers in retrospect. Although the discovery of hibernation technologies did seem as though they would make non-generational attempts at colonization much easier, if only because then the people involved could genuinely consent to the attempt, instead of just being series of generations stuffed on a starship because of their forebears' dreams. The knowledge that in the beginning there were two starships was also a total and genuine shock, and the discussions of sociological reconciliation and multi-generational history were really well-placed. They weren't perfect, since that subject is so complex and the matter at hand was only a temporary part of the book, but I'm really glad they appeared. Anyway I was really impressed, so chalk up another one in the thread's recommendation victory column.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:10
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Antti posted:Yeah, I didn't mean it's literally the same thing, but just another example of the lost civilization theme. There's also Valyria in ASoIaF
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Jul 23, 2015 20:28
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Kesper North posted:Gladstone is great. You'll also be happy to hear that his most recent book, Last First Snow, returns to ("Dresidiel") LAX - it's a prequel to Two Serpents Rise. I hate prequels usually, but this one was really good, and I'm gonna have to reread Two Serpents Rise now. ...I totally did not get the L.A. thing until just now
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Jul 23, 2015 21:02
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corn in the bible posted:It's really hard to be a god Especially on a world where changing your bedsheet is considered witchcraft.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:10
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It's called Dresidiel Lex, Lex as in 'law', not LAX as in Los Angeles airport.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:11
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House Louse posted:Not archaic in a forsoothy godwottery way though, maybe dandified would be a better word? I enjoy his style and wouldn't say it's offputting so much as the big draw of his books. Yeah; archaic may not have been quite the right word to use. I probably should have just called it pulp except that it isn't really pulp - Vance uses a very pulp style to tell non-pulp stories. I like it, but I can understand that other people out there might not (it's kind of the reaction I have to older movies - I find the way they're cut and edited to often be boring and irritating to watch at times.)
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Jul 23, 2015 21:23
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Alhazred posted:Especially on a world where changing your bedsheet is considered witchcraft. Only a crazy foreigner would blow his nose! It is heresy!
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Jul 23, 2015 22:01
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coyo7e posted:
*shrug* I, too, fail to see anything wrong with Abercrombie, he's one of my personal favourites and pretty drat good at what he does. And I've also read more than a couple of books (nerd-genre junkie with occasional pretensions of literature since the early 1980s, I'm afraid).
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Jul 23, 2015 22:07
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Selachian posted:You try to summarize a single volume of ASOIAF or Malazan in a page and a half, without your head exploding. I guess writers would rather farm the work out to fan-made wikis. It doesn't need to be a huge description of everything thats gone before - just a quick reminder of whos who and whats what. You remember little details as the story goes on. For example, A clash of Kings might have: Sansa Stark is under the power of merciless king twat Joffery while her sister Arya is undercover as a boy in a group of potential Nights Watch recruits, fleeing from the people who nobbed her fathers head off. In the north, Jon Snow ranges beyond the wall (for whatever reason that was, I honestly forget) while across the narrow sea Daenerys has hatched three dragons. I tried reading Queen of Fire and didn't understand what was going on and found that I didn't care enough to re-read the previous book, even though I really liked the first in the trilogy.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:50
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MrFlibble posted:It doesn't need to be a huge description of everything thats gone before - just a quick reminder of whos who and whats what. You remember little details as the story goes on. Yeah, pretty much. You don't necessarily need a full on recap page - a lot of stories do just fine without one - but he just didn't bother with catching the reader up at all.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:57
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Antti posted:It's called Dresidiel Lex, Lex as in 'law', not LAX as in Los Angeles airport. Gladstone's a clever guy. It might be both. (I guessed LAX because my father drives 737s for a living and I live in IATA alphabet soup. It's a miracle I don't spell Newark as Ewrark).
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Jul 24, 2015 01:00
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iTunes in Australia is having a scifi/fantasy bundle deal at the moment. I picked up the Rama Omnibus, but there is also Robin Hobb Live ships thing (?), Frank Herbert Omnibus and the Hitchhikers trilogy.
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Jul 24, 2015 01:43
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I'm totally cool with people not enjoying the style of authors, but I really enjoyed every Robin Hobb book I've read. Granted, it's only been the Assassin series and Tawny Man series, but I liked them enough to buy the Live Ship series and read it soonish. I've heard pretty consistently terrible things from her newer books like the Soldier Son stuff. Old Robin Hobb kinda reminds me of old JV Jones or the Fortress series by Cherryh, but better.  These are all things I've read 15+ years ago, though. My memory may betray me.
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Jul 24, 2015 02:02
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Antti posted:It's called Dresidiel Lex, Lex as in 'law', not LAX as in Los Angeles airport. From the horse's mouth: https://twitter.com/maxgladstone/status/624386219724664832 He's such a sport about Twitter.
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Jul 24, 2015 02:15
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Drifter posted:I'm totally cool with people not enjoying the style of authors, but I really enjoyed every Robin Hobb book I've read. Granted, it's only been the Assassin series and Tawny Man series, but I liked them enough to buy the Live Ship series and read it soonish. I dunno, I've by and large enjoyed her newer stuff though yeah, Soldier Son is, to put it as charitably as possible, a lot of neat concept work ruined by a plot that is literally about  . And I doubt you'll find anyone else willing to put it as nicely as I just did.I really liked Fool's Assassin but it hit me in kind of a personal way. I'd say it's worth picking up unless you're fundamentally opposed to yet another Fitz book, which is a 100% reasonable position.
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Jul 24, 2015 02:33
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Furism posted:Thanks for all the cyber punk recommendations. Snow Crash I have read already, totally blanked on that one, but Neuromancer needs to be the next then! Just to give you a warning, the first hundred pages or so have a pretty steep learning curve. Gibson kind of just shoves you off into the deep end in an info-saturated world, and at points I found it pretty hard to keep my head above the water. If you feel like it's throwing too much at you at once, or you're not getting too hooked by it, I'd recommend stopping and checking out a collection of early Gibson stories, Burning Chrome. It's good background reading and really helps with understanding all the stuff he's tossing at you.
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Jul 24, 2015 03:00
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corn in the bible posted:It's really hard to be a god That's what Cotillion keeps telling us.
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Jul 24, 2015 03:10
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Ok, the new book of the month poll thread is up with several options y'all might like: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3732757
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Jul 24, 2015 04:41
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Evfedu posted:I was aware of Jack Vance in the way that he was the guy who invited the D&D magic system, but is any of his stuff worth reading? I've got an Audible credit that I can apparently spend on The Dying Earth to help while away the two hours a day I spend commuting. Bear in mind I don't like to go back and read stuff that's since been done better, best example off the top of my head would be that reading Pratchett's Night Watch loving destroyed a lot of the potential enjoyment I would have had when I ended up reading The Anubis Gate. Yes. Vance's Dying Earth stories are insanely good. The Cugel books are an awesome picaresque duology in that setting, and the short stories are quite awesome too. A lot of bizarre imaginative imagery and black humour couched in florid language which adds to the impression of the alien nature of the world.
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Jul 24, 2015 11:38
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Welp. Pulled the trigger on The Twelve instead because it's 27 hours long and I remember thinking The Passage was an entertaining car crash. Will put Vance on the old wishlist for next months credit, or just buy him on Kindle if I get the time.
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Jul 24, 2015 11:43
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Venusian Weasel posted:Just to give you a warning, the first hundred pages or so have a pretty steep learning curve. Gibson kind of just shoves you off into the deep end in an info-saturated world, and at points I found it pretty hard to keep my head above the water. If you feel like it's throwing too much at you at once, or you're not getting too hooked by it, I'd recommend stopping and checking out a collection of early Gibson stories, Burning Chrome. It's good background reading and really helps with understanding all the stuff he's tossing at you. Neuromancer have a perfect example of how fast scifi can get dated, where in the beginning Case is trying to sell off a 8 Mb memory. But besides that, Neuromancer still holds up very well. Also, Neuromancer is an easy read. I don't typically need to know everything at once but rather enjoy the exploration of a new universe.
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Jul 24, 2015 14:40
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Megazver posted:Yeah, pretty much. You don't necessarily need a full on recap page - a lot of stories do just fine without one - but he just didn't bother with catching the reader up at all. Mark Lawrence did a brief recap in his latest one, explaining that it saves him wasting time and words re-introducing characters through patronizing plot elements. It was just a list of important characters and some context, a few pages long. I wouldn't mind if some of the bigger series started doing the same. I could not remember half of the characters in Tower Lord and that kind of thing would've been nice. It's hard to explain but with ebooks I've found it more difficult to memorize and associate things without the physical book, cover and etc to tie it all together.
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Jul 24, 2015 14:57
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Cardiac posted:Neuromancer have a perfect example of how fast scifi can get dated, where in the beginning Case is trying to sell off a 8 Mb memory. My favourite example of that is the classic Traveller RPG. A science fiction themed RPG first published in the 70's it uses a Tech level system to rate a societys technological level over several fields. With then 70's Earth being Tech 7 across all fields. So Tech 4 Energy generation might be steam power and coal. Tech 9 Early Fusion power. Tech 6 medicine is Early vaccines, Tech11 is Rapid Regeneration of lost limbs. The table on Computer technology got Moore's Law-ed to a ridiculous extent. The computer you're reading this on now would be a Tech 15 Planetary Supercomputer by those rules. Your phone would have the processing power of a Million ton Super-Dreadnought.
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Jul 24, 2015 14:59
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