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True Detective season 1 was pretty much about one thing: legacy. Errol was an inbred simpleton in the deep south that hosed his sister and based his screwed up world views upon his intermittent exposure to his family's legacy of using religious practices as a pretense to subjugate entire groups of people for their own benefit. It's not very subtle. Season 1 was a metaphor for the south's history of hiding their true intentions (racism, homophobia) behind righteous causes (southern pride, honorable rebellion) and how that legacy has been distorted to influence and inform the world view of many of its descendants decades later, and how impossible it is to truly stamp out. The children of the south are still engaged in this unspoken crusade to conserve the values of the confederacy upon which they base their entire identity. Black churches today are being burned down by the dozen and we cannot catch the culprits. How does one fight against a concept? A concept instilled within the hearts of those willing to engage in guerrilla warfare in furtherance of their cause? Can it ever be truly and completely stamped out? Errol is objectively cuckoo for cocoa puffs, but he's smart enough to grasp that his ideology is not exactly an openly accepted one. He's aware that his elders, the ones who instilled in him this belief system, are not willing to openly accept this ideology in society. So he has taken it upon himself to engage in guerrilla warfare of his own, singlehandedly keeping the spirit of the yellow king alive. The south will rise again. In the context of the show, the ending is entirely appropriate. You can catch the bastardized idiot, but the powerful, old-money families that have "gone legitimate" are untouchable.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:40
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Just caught up with the show. I'm really enjoying season two, but I don't think it's very good. Season one had great acting, a decent script, and amazing visuals. Season two is a much harder sell because it's subjectively ridiculous fun, but objectively a bit of a train wreck. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that season two almost feels like a parody. That really seems spot on. The long, pandering shots of highway intersections accompanied by foreboding music between every scene, the myriad of shots ending in people staring at one another for way too long. It all just comes off as way too blatant, and there is no emotional punch behind any of it. The characters also feel far more like cartoons to me than Rust and Marty. Colin Farrell gets drunk as gently caress, and beats the poo poo out of a school bully's dad, bike cop is gay and really angry about it, and the mafia boss with the blank expression talks like he ate a thesaurus. Honestly, the only weak link is Ani because she hasn't gotten around to slicing anybody's dicks off like she promised. At least she's got a stripper sister and a cult leader father. I really want to see more of the crow-faced killer, too. He is straight out of some video game like Hotline Miami. While the second season is not really a good successor to the mostly excellent first season I still like it a lot. None of the dread and suspense from the first season is left, but it does create incredulous laughter in fairly regular intervals. And More fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 18:45
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speshl guy posted:In the context of the show, the ending is entirely appropriate. You can catch the bastardized idiot, but the powerful, old-money families that have "gone legitimate" are untouchable. See, I don't agree with this though I see a lot of posters saying it. After Errol is killed and the governor's family has to go on TV and deny any connection to it, I think the whole Carcosa "line" is pretty much broken. The rest of the cabal are almost surely older men who can't take all the risks Errol did or live the type of off-the-radar, secluded life Errol did. Errol was the group's enabler, not the other way around. With him gone, I very much doubt the others continued doing the things they were doing. In reality we don't have reason to suspect the cabal were involved with any of the recent murders (Dora Lange onward) and by that point I believe it was pretty much all Errol and his own offshoot group of psychos. Although the legacy of all that evil was still around (and documented like on the tape) there's no reason to believe the group had another Errol on deck.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:55
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Unzip and Attack posted:See, I don't agree with this though I see a lot of posters saying it. I think the root of the statement was less about stopping them and more about actually bringing them to justice. Like, of course they won't be able to do what they were doing anymore (if they even were, as you alluded to), but they're also never going to see the inside of a courtroom, much less a jail cell.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:00
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That's fair - and I believe one of the more weighty moments of the first season was Rust coming to terms with this, and seeing it as less of a failure and more of a worthy enough effort to finally justify the continuance of his life after the death of his daughter. It was a very human moment and for me, and a fitting capstone for the season. Seeing his emotional release after all that denial and cynicism was really moving.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:12
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The S1 ending may have been a little on the light-hearted side but I have to posit that the original ending involving both Marty and Rust ending up dead would have sucked rocks.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:05
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Paladinus posted:The way it goes, in the next thread the consensus will be that the show was poo poo from the very beginning. The Secret Fate of All Shows
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Jul 23, 2015 20:56
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Bill Dungsroman posted:The S1 ending may have been a little on the light-hearted side but I have to posit that the original ending involving both Marty and Rust ending up dead would have sucked rocks. I thought the ending was great the way it was. As you say, "everyone dies" would just suck, and I don't think the ending we got was that optimistic anyway - they've made a couple of bright spots in the sky but it's still black, and there's no way light will take over all of it.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:05
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Unzip and Attack posted:Not being snarky, but what sort of ending would have been less disappointing for you? I think I just felt like everything was wrapped up so quickly or left so abruptly in the last episode. A very hasty chain of clues leads to the climactic confrontation with Childress, and then we're at basically the last scene -- the hospital -- Marty breaks Rust out, something about stars, and that's it. I really was happy where the two men ended up personally, but everything else? I would have at least liked a few more police scenes -- some kind of resolution between Hart, Cohle, and the interviewing detectives and the investigation they represent. I had fantasies about a second season following Gilbough and Papania as they run with the gift of a lead Hart and Cohle left them with. Or I would have liked to see more exploration of why any kind of case against the conspiracy would have been DOA -- the only allusion to things going nowhere with the broader case against the conspiracy is some lines from a news anchor on a TV in the hospital ("...In the meantime, the State Attorney General and the FBI have discredited rumors that the accused was in some way related to the family of Louisiana Senator Edwin Tuttle"), which I felt was kind of hasty. Fan service-y (?) answer? I don't reasonably expect they could have done this, I would have really liked a super hosed up   occult / Black Lodge / Temple of Doom / Silent Hill resolution in which Hart and Cohle have a Call of Cthulhu style encounter and discover the true cosmic horror of this conspiracy and either wreck it, crusader style, or run for their lives realizing their relative powerlessness.Mostly it just felt rushed and didn't resolve enough for my liking.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:15
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DasNeonLicht posted:I think I just felt like everything was wrapped up so quickly or left so abruptly in the last episode. A very hasty chain of clues leads to the climactic confrontation with Childress, and then we're at basically the last scene -- the hospital -- Marty breaks Rust out, something about stars, and that's it. I really was happy where the two men ended up personally, but everything else? You have expressed my sentiments. I don't know how to say a show I loved so much left me feeling cheated at the end, as if they owed me anything for my subscription fee and having my eyes glued to the tv but I just wish it'd gone a different way.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:19
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life is killing me posted:I do, but had forgotten about Black Mountain and made a dumb assumption in light of that Please don't marginalize vets. I'm busted the gently caress up and get 70%. Sometimes there's a lot more than just a broken toe that's damaged, but the physical aspect seems trivial.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:50
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TEAH SYAG posted:Please don't marginalize vets. I'm busted the gently caress up and get 70%. Sometimes there's a lot more than just a broken toe that's damaged, but the physical aspect seems trivial. Not to derail but for every legitimate case like yourself there seems to be 2 or 3 with absolute bullshit for rationale. My neighbor is an Air Force S1 type who when she found out I had served two tours (Army), she basically called me an idiot for not applying for any disability, however imagined. And it's her job to process requests. It's not a knock against you - people like yourself need to have their service honored. But people like me with no ill effects don't deserve poo poo and there are tons of shitbarns who take advantage of the system.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:55
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Unzip and Attack posted:Not to derail but for every legitimate case like yourself there seems to be 2 or 3 with absolute bullshit for rationale. My neighbor is an Air Force S1 type who when she found out I had served two tours (Army), she basically called me an idiot for not applying for any disability, however imagined. And it's her job to process requests. Unless something has dramatically changed recently, it is really difficult and time consuming to get any reasonable amount of money out of disability from military service. I know one person who lost a hand and another who lost and entire leg and the monthly benefits are embarrassing. You would figure losing limbs would net you 100% benefits but neither of them do.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:08
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DasNeonLicht posted:Fan service-y (?) answer? I don't reasonably expect they could have done this, I would have really liked a super hosed up I doubt that I would have liked a crazy encounter with a bunch of shoggoths or something. The cosmic horror was resolved well enough by hinting that Rust maybe really saw Ledoux' black star, but neither he nor anybody can be sure. I like that this stuff stays somewhere between metaphor, hallucination and reality. There is something to be said about Childress being not nearly as scary and memorable as Ledoux, though. While the setting of the finale is really neat the culprit himself is kind of a letdown. That image of the gas mask is far more vivid in my mind than Childress with his knife and light scarring. He is just such a stereotypical inbred redneck. The only thing that makes him stand out is his oddly stilted way of speaking to his sister. Hopefully, the crow-mask killer will be a bit more interesting. edit: not a hawk, a crow And More fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 22:11
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TEAH SYAG posted:Please don't marginalize vets. I'm busted the gently caress up and get 70%. Sometimes there's a lot more than just a broken toe that's damaged, but the physical aspect seems trivial. I'm a vet. e: with 0% disability because Tuttle Med Clinic at HAAF lost my medical paperwork and along with it documentation of all my medical problems on my final medical exam...which was the only proof I had that any of that happened while I was in the Army. life is killing me fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 22:30
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And More posted:There is something to be said about Childress being not nearly as scary and memorable as Ledoux, though. While the setting of the finale is really neat the culprit himself is kind of a letdown. That image of the gas mask is far more vivid in my mind than Childress with his knife and light scarring. He is just such a stereotypical inbred redneck. The only thing that makes him stand out is his oddly stilted way of speaking to his sister. Hopefully, the hawk-mask killer will be a bit more interesting. Yeah, the Lynchy gas mask scene and this:  ...were a lot more memorable. I don't hate the ending of season 1 but I definitely think it could have been more impactful with just a few tweaks. I don't expect a direct, literal direction but I think the fact that season 2 picked up the ultra-wealthy occult/cult connections right from where season 1 left off should count for something.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:55
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DasNeonLicht posted:Fan service-y (?) answer? I don't reasonably expect they could have done this, I would have really liked a super hosed up You have been infected by the mind virus. Seek help.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:59
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Lord Krangdar posted:Yeah, the Lynchy gas mask scene and this: 
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Jul 23, 2015 23:51
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Season two has had countless Lynchian elements; some that seem to be directly lifted and others that just have that same mundane yet nightmarish feeling.
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Jul 24, 2015 00:23
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Sir John Feelgood posted:I thought of Lynch during this scene too. Yeah, it's basically a three minute Twin Peaks/David Lynch homage including a diner scene involving a father telling his son a vision of the future, a dude singing with weird lighting, and (Twin Peaks spoiler) lying in a room after getting shot. The only thing missing is a really slow, senile, old man who also might be a spirit on some other plane of existence. I quite enjoyed the idea of the scene, but it lacks any subtlety. Twin Peaks creates mysteries through visions. In one of Cooper's dreams, BOB tells Cooper: "That gum you like is coming back in style." You're left to wonder for ten episodes or so what the hell he was talking about, and it feels like a real revelation when it finally gets resolved. In True Detective, Velcoro's father tells him: "They shoot you to pieces." I assume he is implying that Velcoro is getting shot to pieces at some point. That's not very mysterious. And More fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 00:35
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Lord Krangdar posted:Season two has had countless Lynchian elements; some that seem to be directly lifted and others that just have that same mundane yet nightmarish feeling. All the scenes in the club are soaked in Lynch and are great. The music on the show in general is all fantastic. T-Bone Burnett does good work.
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Jul 24, 2015 01:40
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And More posted:Hopefully, the hawk-mask killer will be a bit more interesting. It's a crow, and my money is on it being that lame guy in Frank's crew who keeps getting yelled at.
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Jul 24, 2015 03:08
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I loved the finale of Season 1 but the way they figured out the green eared riddle was pretty weak.
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Jul 24, 2015 03:11
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Black Bones posted:It's a crow, and my money is on it being that lame guy in Frank's crew who keeps getting yelled at. EPISODE 8 - CLIMAX EXTERIOR, POISONED AVOCADO GROVE Milquetoast Pimp: "Your move, Frank. You wouldn't dare scold *pulls on mask* A CROW"
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Jul 24, 2015 03:15
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I still think the crow was James Frain down to the shady dealing at the station, the "rounds only someone who was a cop" could have, and the fact that he is the most suspicious person in the show.
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Jul 24, 2015 03:21
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Just watched the scene with Ray beating up the creepy shrink, and the idea that the Chessani family is a ~special lineage~ is hammered on pretty hard. Seems like this might be a motif - the son loving up the long held family cult responsibilities.
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Jul 24, 2015 03:46
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pugnax posted:Just watched the scene with Ray beating up the creepy shrink, and the idea that the Chessani family is a ~special lineage~ is hammered on pretty hard. Seems like this might be a motif - the son loving up the long held family cult responsibilities. That guy's face is like an old luchadore's mask. And he's probably up to nothing but his face is so creepy and made out of wax. Loose teeth are the uniting theme, like Twelve Monkeys with Bruce Willis as a hosed up dentist to a pimp. Everyone please floss and brush after dinner.
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Jul 24, 2015 04:07
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syscall girl posted:That guy's face is like an old luchadore's mask. Should wait at least 30 minutes otherwise you can damage your teeth.
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Jul 24, 2015 06:04
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Black Bones posted:It's a crow, and my money is on it being that lame guy in Frank's crew who keeps getting yelled at. Whoops! I'm honestly shocked I didn't confuse it with an owl mask because of this:  To be fair, the guy hasn't shown up in three episodes. I guess chase scenes aren't really feasible with a big honking mask on your head. Libertine posted:I still think the crow was James Frain down to the shady dealing at the station, the "rounds only someone who was a cop" could have, and the fact that he is the most suspicious person in the show. It's gotta be a cop. That's basically the only lead we have on the guy. And More fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 07:00
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It's gotta be James Frain. I just can't see anyone outside of Vinci PD wanting to leave Velcoro alive.
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Jul 24, 2015 07:28
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Lycus posted:It's gotta be James Frain. I just can't see anyone outside of Vinci PD wanting to leave Velcoro alive. There's one reason I can think of: the shooter needs Velcoro for some future purpose. He's a perfect fall guy because he's a dirty cop, has a history of drug and alcohol abuse (making his memory unreliable and judgment impaired), and has a tendency to resort to beating the poo poo out of people when he's angry or can't figure something out. We've seen him beat up a bully's dad, a reporter, and Pitlor with no consequences already; he's leaving a trail of broken bodies in his wake. And if they really are into the occult, they may have some mystical reason for sparing Velcoro; he's part of a prophecy, or they plan to make a sacrifice of him later. Something like that. That said, I agree that Frain is at the top of the list of birdman suspects right now.
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Jul 24, 2015 09:14
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Who the hell is James Frain I know the names of 4 characters and none of them are James Frain
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Jul 24, 2015 10:12
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precision posted:I knew Colin Farrel could act because I've seen Phone Booth. Tigerland is ten times better.
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Jul 24, 2015 10:38
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drunken officeparty posted:Who the hell is James Frain This guy:  He's apparently called Lieutenant Kevin Burris. The three characters' names I can remember are: Ani, Velcoro and Stan.
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Jul 24, 2015 10:39
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And More posted:There is something to be said about Childress being not nearly as scary and memorable as Ledoux, though. While the setting of the finale is really neat the culprit himself is kind of a letdown. That image of the gas mask is far more vivid in my mind than Childress with his knife and light scarring. He is just such a stereotypical inbred redneck. The only thing that makes him stand out is his oddly stilted way of speaking to his sister. Hopefully, the crow-mask killer will be a bit more interesting. The only scary part with Ledoux was the very end of episode 3 where he's walking with that gas mask on holding a giant gently caress off machete with the creepy music directly after the lead-in of Cohle talking about monsters at the end of dreams. That really was a truly  moment right there. As for Childress, he was an appropriately grotesque backwards gently caress that looked capable of doing all those grisly murders. I think the intent was for him to simply disgust viewers, not scare them like Ledoux.
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Jul 24, 2015 10:51
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To clarify: Burris is the guy who's standing around and sometimes puts his two cents in at PD meetings, who's working the Casper murder scene when Ani gets there and rages about Vinci PD messing up evidence, and who showed up at Velcoro's house in the last episode to give him a 60 day notice. Like the Truest Detective (RIP), he's a character with access to police weapons who shows up in a lot of scenes but whose agenda or place in the power structure of Vinci is unknown. Unlike the TD, he fits the birdman's physical profile (lean) and doesn't have a giant bullet hole in his head. Speaking of our dead fat pal, did I miss some mention of why he was stalking Paul? That seems important, given that Paul is now following up on his trail and we've only got a few episodes left to go. It kind of fits into my musings about whether Black Mountain and Paul's past have more to do with the current plot than is readily apparent, if only because one of the rich white dudes hitting the Grove parties is the CEO of Black Mountain or something.
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Jul 24, 2015 10:58
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And More posted:The three characters' names I can remember are: Stan, Stan, and Stan.
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Jul 24, 2015 13:11
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I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet: in reality there is no link between abortion and future fertility (even three abortions, which is actually not that many statistically speaking). I'm giving Pizzy the benefit of the doubt and hoping it will turn out to be Frank's problem all along.
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Jul 24, 2015 14:38
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I read a pretty interesting fan theory on Burris the other day: http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/07/burris-true-detective-killer/2/ Seems plausible to me.
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Jul 24, 2015 15:06
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Ashrik posted:I read a pretty interesting fan theory on Burris the other day: http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/07/burris-true-detective-killer/2/ I am more taken by the subreddit it linked back to. I didn't notice the lighting in the bar scene until just now - Ani in green, Ray in red.
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Jul 24, 2015 15:53
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