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Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Looking for a used laptop. Is a HD 6470M discreet card enough of a selling point over HD3000 graphics that it's worth paying ~$30 extra for? Will this effect battery life if you're not gaming?

Also, tons of T410/420's and Elitebook 84xxP laptops in the price range I'm looking for (~$300, Sandybridge Core i5 or better, 1600x900 or better). They're spec'd and priced the same mostly. Any preference between the two?

Also looking for a good place to hunt for refurb laptops besides newegg.

Chuu fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jul 23, 2015

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Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.

TastyLemonDrops posted:

I built a new computer a little under a month ago and everything's been working perfectly fine. However, just now it refused to turn on. I checked the power outlet, switch, etc and figured it was a problem with the PSU. However, I plugged the PSU into my older computer and it works normally. Is there anything else I should check for before sending in a RMA for the motherboard? Just looking for possibilities that might cause a computer to not turn on at all (no lights/fans/etc) when pressing the power button.

It could still be your PSU. For example, it might have crapped out but still be able to run the light load(or no load if you just jump start it) of your old computer.
To be safe I'd check with another PSU. Of course it's hard if you don't have any.

If there is no indication of life it is probably the MB or PSU, as you've realized. Switches are the dumbest thing that break so make sure to try to jump the power button pins on the MB with a screwdriver, if you haven't already.

GruntyThrst
Oct 9, 2007

*clang*

What's the general rule for case fan facing? I've got a single one in the back, I assume it should be blowing air outwards?

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.
This is part of the second post of the overclocking thread.

Factory Factory posted:

Fan orientation

How you arrange your fans makes a big difference for how effectively you cool your case. In general:
  • You want both intake fans and exhaust fans, and you want a clear path for air to flow between them.
  • Heat rises. Intake low, and exhaust high.
  • Intake from the front, exhaust from the back. The rear of the machine is probably dustier than up front.
  • Keep your cables neat. A thick mess of cables in your airflow path will reduce airflow.
  • Dust will build up over time. You will want to clean the system occasionally with compressed air.
  • Fans usually have little arrows on them to tell you which way they will blow. If your fan doesn’t, air flows toward the scoopy side.


As well, the balance of air in and air out can affect your case’s cooling characteristics.

Negative pressure: More fan CFM out than in



Pro: Works great for graphics coolers
Con: Dust magnet

Positive pressure: More fan CFM in than out





Pro: Filter the intake fans and there’s almost no dust buildup
Con: Most cases set up for negative or neutral pressure stock, so you need more fan

Reversed - Intake rear, exhaust front



Pro: Excellent when you have a lot of radiators and want to maximize the cool air getting to them. Works well with open-air GPU coolers.
Con: A bit bizarre, might leave blower GPUs without direct airflow.

Tapedump
Aug 31, 2007
College Slice

Chuu posted:

Looking for a used laptop. Is a HD 6470M discreet card enough of a selling point over HD3000 graphics that it's worth paying ~$30 extra for?

Do you mean with an Intel CPU/chipset but with an AMD GPU tacked on or with an AMD CPU/chipset and said 6470M?

If the latter, almost definitely not.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

Chuu posted:

Looking for a used laptop. Is a HD 6470M discreet card enough of a selling point over HD3000 graphics that it's worth paying ~$30 extra for? Will this effect battery life if you're not gaming?

Also, tons of T410/420's and Elitebook 84xxP laptops in the price range I'm looking for (~$300, Sandybridge Core i5 or better, 1600x900 or better). They're spec'd and priced the same mostly. Any preference between the two?

Also looking for a good place to hunt for refurb laptops besides newegg.
Check out the Laptop Megathread here. As a general rule low-end GPUs don't help over integrated GPUs, they just impact battery life.

Prorat
Aug 3, 2004

by FactsAreUseless
Let's be real here, will I notice any difference in x2 8gb or x4 4gb RAM?

I already have x2 4gb and am thinking about buying another x2 4gb of the exact same RAM but wondering if I should get x2 8gbs instead and sell what I already have.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Prorat posted:

Let's be real here, will I notice any difference in x2 8gb or x4 4gb RAM?

I already have x2 4gb and am thinking about buying another x2 4gb of the exact same RAM but wondering if I should get x2 8gbs instead and sell what I already have.

Unless buying x2 8 GB is cheaper, just buy the x2 4 GB.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.

Prorat posted:

Let's be real here, will I notice any difference in x2 8gb or x4 4gb RAM?

I already have x2 4gb and am thinking about buying another x2 4gb of the exact same RAM but wondering if I should get x2 8gbs instead and sell what I already have.

The only possible reason you'd want to get the 2x8 is if your current ram is really weird and old, and even then only if it's 1.65v or higher compared to the standard 1.5v. I say this because apparently RAM thats above 1.6v can cause issues with the memory controller at some point.

I was in your exact boat not too long ago, and I bought the 2x8 only because the above reason, otherwise yeah, just get the 2x4 and go 4x4 as long as it's the exact same RAM.

Prorat
Aug 3, 2004

by FactsAreUseless
Will do, thanks both of you.

Microsoft Weird
Sep 11, 2007

Which manufacturer has the best RMA/customer service when it comes to motherboards? Looking at getting an 1151 motherboard within their first month of so of release and I know I'll be going in blind. There are ASUS, MSI, AsRock, EVGA boards to choose from and I've never RMA'd anything from any of these companies before. I know ASUS had almost no customer support last time I bought from them.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene
Fun Shoe
Off the top of my head avoid Gigabyte and anything with a Killer NIC on board.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

schizopol posted:

Which manufacturer has the best RMA/customer service when it comes to motherboards? Looking at getting an 1151 motherboard within their first month of so of release and I know I'll be going in blind. There are ASUS, MSI, AsRock, EVGA boards to choose from and I've never RMA'd anything from any of these companies before. I know ASUS had almost no customer support last time I bought from them.
If you don't like Asus support go MSI, though I think Asus has sufficiently better engineering and component quality that it's worth going Asus for the lower chance of problems.

Ryuga Death
May 14, 2008

There's gotta be one more bell to crack
Fun Shoe
What's the best overall CPU cooler for something like the i5 4570? Is it still the hyper 212 evo? Looking to pick one up to combat the heat here and to maybe have a bit less noise.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

Ryuga Death posted:

What's the best overall CPU cooler for something like the i5 4570? Is it still the hyper 212 evo? Looking to pick one up to combat the heat here and to maybe have a bit less noise.
Yeah if you're not overclocking the Hyper 212 Evo is the best value option. That said, you shouldn't be seeing too much heat and noise with the stock cooler, you can probably reduce temperatures by reseating it with a clean layer of thermal paste, and check your motherboard fan speed control settings for the noise.

Dead Goon
Dec 13, 2002

No Obvious Flaws



Ryuga Death posted:

What's the best overall CPU cooler for something like the i5 4570? Is it still the hyper 212 evo? Looking to pick one up to combat the heat here and to maybe have a bit less noise.

There is also the Cryorig H7 which is said to be as good as the 212 EVO but slightly easier to install.

It can sometimes be difficult to find in stock or available at all, however.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer
I got a co-worker with a hard drive in his PC that has reallocated sectors. I was going to suggest that he pick up a new hard drive or even a 250GB SSD. Suggestions on how to direct him?

Oddhair
Mar 21, 2004

TastyLemonDrops posted:

No offense taken. I'm just a little confused because the computer was working perfectly since I had built it. Would that kind of issue pass by undetected until it became a problem?

Not likely if they were missing altogether, that usually crops up faster (though I've never personally witnessed it, this would likely make your expansion cards not seat well, your I/O shield not line up, etc.) In my case it had pressed sheet metal standoffs that snapped into large rectangular openings on the case, and gently touching a small area behind my mobo would cause a reboot, something that didn't come up much. After I loaned the case to another friend he was more savvy and knew it was likely those standoffs causing [whatever he was experiencing, it was almost assuredly slightly different from my experience.] We covered the tops of them with electrical tape and drove the screws through the tape and it took care of [whatever he was suffering from them] for good.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

SlayVus posted:

I got a co-worker with a hard drive in his PC that has reallocated sectors. I was going to suggest that he pick up a new hard drive or even a 250GB SSD. Suggestions on how to direct him?

Samsung 850 EVO or Intel 530 or 730 SSD (whichever it cheapest, probably the 850). If he needs a HD, WD Blue for 1TB or less, WD Red or HGST or Toshiba for 2TB or more.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Rexxed posted:

Samsung 850 EVO or Intel 530 or 730 SSD (whichever it cheapest, probably the 850). If he needs a HD, WD Blue for 1TB or less, WD Red or HGST or Toshiba for 2TB or more.

The problem I'm seeing with this computer, is I really don't know his storage requirements. Like his System Volume Information file is 37GB and his Temp Internet Files was 80+ GB in size. Between Windows, Users, and Program Files/Program Data. He is only using 28 GB.

I've already deleted the 80GB of Temporary Internet Files. So like 57% of the used space on the drive is the SVI file. But I have no clue what caused the 80GB of TIFs. There were a lot of .js and .swf though. Isn't IE supposed to limit it's TIF size?

I also don't know if his computer will support TRIM as it's using a LGA 775 board that had a Celeron in it. I have since upgraded it to a C2D E4600 with 4GB of RAM. He is also using Vista.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010



If he was using the computer since before IE became somewhat modern, it's likely still running on the old "never bother cleaning anything ever" settings it had in IE6. That should fix itself as soon as you go into the relevant settings menu.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Are Optimus drivers laptop-specific? If you have an Optimus equipped laptop, do you have to use the vendor provided gpu drivers or can you use the ones on nVidia's site?

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Chuu posted:

Are Optimus drivers laptop-specific? If you have an Optimus equipped laptop, do you have to use the vendor provided gpu drivers or can you use the ones on nVidia's site?

All I can tell you is how its been on the Dells I've used with Optimus, and for both of them usign the nVidia site drivers worked just fine. Some other manufacturers may mess with things more.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer

Nintendo Kid posted:

All I can tell you is how its been on the Dells I've used with Optimus, and for both of them usign the nVidia site drivers worked just fine. Some other manufacturers may mess with things more.

Just to clarify (keep in mind this is for a laptop I plan on buying -- not one I currently have -- so I can't check anything):

I searched nVidia's site for Optimus drivers and didn't find any -- but was able to find drivers for the mobile GPU chip.

What I assumed this meant was that Optimus was laptop-specific, and if Optimus was laptop specific, I thought that the Video Card drivers might be too.

Are you saying that there are "generic" Optimus drivers somewhere on nVidia's site that I missed -- or that you have to use the vendor-specific Optimus driver but can pair it with any released version of nVidia's video card drivers?

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Chuu posted:

Just to clarify (keep in mind this is for a laptop I plan on buying -- not one I currently have -- so I can't check anything):

I searched nVidia's site for Optimus drivers and didn't find any -- but was able to find drivers for the mobile GPU chip.

What I assumed this meant was that Optimus was laptop-specific, and if Optimus was laptop specific, I thought that the Video Card drivers might be too.

Are you saying that there are "generic" Optimus drivers somewhere on nVidia's site that I missed -- or that you have to use the vendor-specific Optimus driver but can pair it with any released version of nVidia's video card drivers?

I just use the NVidia GeForce Experience program and it spits out correct drivers for my Dell that handles the Optimus stuff and seems to update about once a month.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

Chuu posted:

I searched nVidia's site for Optimus drivers and didn't find any -- but was able to find drivers for the mobile GPU chip.

What I assumed this meant was that Optimus was laptop-specific, and if Optimus was laptop specific, I thought that the Video Card drivers might be too.
On most systems Optimus works when you install the regular nVidia Geforce drivers along with the regular Intel HD Graphics drivers. Both are required for Optimus to work. Some system manufacturers require you to use their drivers, not the nVidia ones, that's a decision by the system manufacturer.

Nondescript Van
May 2, 2007

Gats N Party Hats :toot:
does anybody know of a reason that an asus z97 gryphon would not give any display with 2x gtx 980 in sli? once i am booted in to windows and get to the logon screen my displays turn on and everything works perfectly fine in the OS, but up until that i point i get nothing at all. I have to guess when the bitlocker screen is up and type in that password and I get absolutely no post display or display in the BIOS.

I do not have this issue if I have only a single card installed in the system.

I swear to god I have more issues with asus hardware that anything else I have ever tried.

program666
Aug 22, 2013

A giant carnivorous dinosaur
z87 with a 760 sli and I never had any problem, but also it's a bit too far from your build. If you boot your pc pressing Del do you go to the bios settings screen normally? And if so, I think there is a setting to skip the POST screens. Maybe it's set but it's taking too long anyway so you only see a blank screen for a while.

Nondescript Van
May 2, 2007

Gats N Party Hats :toot:

program666 posted:

z87 with a 760 sli and I never had any problem, but also it's a bit too far from your build. If you boot your pc pressing Del do you go to the bios settings screen normally? And if so, I think there is a setting to skip the POST screens. Maybe it's set but it's taking too long anyway so you only see a blank screen for a while.

nope, neither of those. In my troubleshooting, i reset the bios. hammering del probably brings me in to the BIOS, but I can't see it. The only other thing I can think is that it is using the wrong card as a display adapter. I'll have to try that when I get home. At least I know my cards are good. I was close to sending one of them back.

Ra-amun
Feb 25, 2011
Got an issue with a pretty old (~2008), crappy Viewsonic monitor. Turning it on for the first few times will have the screen act like I put the computer to sleep, i.e., the image will display for a half second before the screen goes black and the power light turns orange. If I switch between my two monitors with the Windows-P shortcut three or four times, I can get the screen to stay on.

Any idea what the issue could be?

Grapeshot
Oct 21, 2010

Ra-amun posted:

Got an issue with a pretty old (~2008), crappy Viewsonic monitor. Turning it on for the first few times will have the screen act like I put the computer to sleep, i.e., the image will display for a half second before the screen goes black and the power light turns orange. If I switch between my two monitors with the Windows-P shortcut three or four times, I can get the screen to stay on.

Any idea what the issue could be?

Bad capacitors in the monitor's power supply.

Tapedump
Aug 31, 2007
College Slice
Surely. Here is the first reading I did about bap caps when my Viewsonic went that way (at the 3.25y mark):

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpost.php?p=66299&postcount=17

You probably should just buy a new one, but if you've got a soldering iron it's about $3-5 bucks worth of new caps and shipping... Makes for a neat Saturday project.

program666
Aug 22, 2013

A giant carnivorous dinosaur

Nondescript Van posted:

nope, neither of those. In my troubleshooting, i reset the bios. hammering del probably brings me in to the BIOS, but I can't see it. The only other thing I can think is that it is using the wrong card as a display adapter. I'll have to try that when I get home. At least I know my cards are good. I was close to sending one of them back.

I'm guessing you tried connecting your monitor to the other card and also the mobo video output so the only other stuff I can think of is that I sometimes have problems with the SLI bridge, but everything will work normally until I try to activate SLI, and it says I can't because the bridge isn't connected.
Also, you probably know but just in case: every pci express socket is different and usually the one at the very top is the fastest and the second one the second fastest and so on, and I think some mobos' manuals I've seen have some very strict rules about which socket you should use for SLI, like, you HAVE to use the first and the second sockets (but take this with a grain of salt, it could just be some vage impression I have), but you should use the first sockets anyway since you might lose some speed, in case you're not using it.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Is M.2 really just PCI-E?

If so, let's say I have a laptop with a mPCIE slot that can take mSATA SSDs, but it's limited to SATA II. If I buy a M.2 drive, and use a M.2 to mPCIE adapter -- will I be able to use it at full speed? What are the odds I can boot from it?

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer
It's more reliant on the controller on the SSD itself, not just the connection of the SSD. For instance, Samsung makes mSATA and M.2 850 EVO and 850 Pro SSDs. However, the M.2 850 Evo and Pro still perform at SATA speeds.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

Chuu posted:

Is M.2 really just PCI-E?

If so, let's say I have a laptop with a mPCIE slot that can take mSATA SSDs, but it's limited to SATA II. If I buy a M.2 drive, and use a M.2 to mPCIE adapter -- will I be able to use it at full speed? What are the odds I can boot from it?
M.2 can carry either PCIe or SATA signals. A PCIe M.2 device via some mPCIE adapter would only be bootable on the latest motherboards with an updated BIOS, not an older SATA300 system.

supermikhail
Nov 17, 2012


"It's video games, Scully."
Video games?"
"He enlists the help of strangers to make his perfect video game. When he gets bored of an idea, he murders them and moves on to the next, learning nothing in the process."
"Hmm... interesting."
Don't know if that's the thread for noob questions, but... I decided to clean out some dust from my computer today because I thought a fan was making scratchy noises. So, after I was done, I switched the machine on, and it made a sound like a jet engine, but it did start. I switched it off, poked around inside some more, tried to switch it on again, and got only listless spinning of one fan. I let it sit for a while, started it again, got the jet engine sound, but decided to let it run, and gradually the sound subsided and disappeared... Any thoughts? What does this episode mean? Is my computer going to die?

Turkey Farts
Jan 4, 2013

Did you clean the fans using compressed air?

supermikhail
Nov 17, 2012


"It's video games, Scully."
Video games?"
"He enlists the help of strangers to make his perfect video game. When he gets bored of an idea, he murders them and moves on to the next, learning nothing in the process."
"Hmm... interesting."
I'm frankly not sure if "cleaned" is the word, but just before that I'd read in an article that you should use a soft brush. Which I did.

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SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer
So using several power supply calculators, it looks like my current system can be handled by a 600w power supply. Though should I go with a 700w just so that I'm not at 80% load when I'm putting my PC under load?

i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz
MSI GTX 970 Golden
Zotac GTX 970
6 fans, 1 SSD, 1 HDD

My current power supply is going on like 5-6 years old now. It's a Corsair HX1000.

SlayVus fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Aug 4, 2015

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