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MattD1zzl3 posted:Yes. Both. I dont want to go overboard with my lovely opinions beyond "i like X" (3 posts might be enough) but putting it in D and pressing the "gas" will aways feel slushy if i'm not actively controlling the disconnection of the drive wheels during a stop and the slip during setting off. Feeling the car doing things on its own in the seat of my pants is unnerving. To a lesser extent I worry it encourages inattentiveness and feels like its taking control away from me. I wont pretend to not be an automotive luddite, but this is really just a control configuration preference i wont want to lose as i hopefully transition to electric. Plus i enjoy every second of it, even in heavy traffic. You should try driving an EV first.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:39
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:Why wouldn't you just reverse the electric motor? Isn't that a helluva lot simpler than having a transmission?
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Jul 23, 2015 14:43
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ilkhan posted:AFAIK the way electric motors work make them easy to reverse, but only if you're at an absolute standstill. How often do you totally stop before hitting reverse? Do not be surprised when your transmission fails. There is a little important pin you damage a little each time when you do this. edit: if you have a normal traditional car without some kind of mechanism to prevent this damage blah blah blah. duz posted:You should try driving an EV first. Will do. But is it much different from an enclosed, polished golf kart? I thought the drivetrain feel would be pretty much that. I cant afford one yet and i dont like asking to drive peoples cars if i can help it. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 14:55
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Do not be surprised when your transmission fails. There is a little important pin you damage a little each time when you do this. edit: if you have a normal traditional car without some kind of mechanism to prevent this damage blah blah blah. And that's what dealers are for.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:25
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I would think that, given the choice of a) making an EV just reverse the electric motor itself, which probably requires no additional parts and b) using an actual reverse gear (with all the added moving parts that brings) the solution is obvious. I'm not sure that it would be possible to "damage" an electric motor by reversing it while its still moving forward, since it's just making a magnetic field do the work. Correct me if I'm wrong!
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Jul 23, 2015 15:33
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Yes. Both. I dont want to go overboard with my lovely opinions beyond "i like X" (3 posts might be enough) but putting it in D and pressing the "gas" will aways feel slushy if i'm not actively controlling the disconnection of the drive wheels during a stop and the slip during setting off. Fair enough! Tesla offers no strings attached test drives, give it a go one day. I think you'll be surprised. One thing that might annoy you is the creep function. Other EVs also have this. If you're standing still in drive with brake on, hill hold is active. Once you touch the accelerator, the car will creep forward until it comes to a full stop with brakes on again. I like it because you can be more precise inching forward by braking a creep then by pressing the gas gently. Don't like it? Switch it off in the config menu. MattD1zzl3 posted:It sounds like they knew EV motorcycle buyers would want to shift their own gears as well and made that work. Maybe, but with that particular bike I think it was an engineering choice more of a customer demand. It's supposed to be a track capable bike and with a single speed it tops out in the straights too early. ilkhan posted:And most have a 1 speed transmission to add a reverse gear, not straight direct drive. Nope, they spin the motor backwards. I think most can even regen backwards. They do have a box with some cogs and gear oil in it though and it can rightly be called a gearbox. It's just that the gears can't be shifted.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:42
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Collateral Damage posted:I saw my first Tesla Model S taxi here today. A Model S taxi sounds terrible considering that my head hits the ceiling in the back seat. It's a four-door car in theory but honestly those back seats are smaller than my old compact. Also the original Tesla roadster was supposed to have multiple drive gears, but they got rid of it when they downrated a bunch of other stuff to make it easier to make. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 15:52
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Mange Mite posted:Also the original Tesla roadster was supposed to have multiple drive gears, but they got rid of it when they downrated a bunch of other stuff to make it easier to make. I thought they got rid of it because they kept breaking gearboxes in the prototypes. It's a lot easier to make a simple reduction box sturdy compared to a shiftable transmission.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:27
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Yes. Both. I dont want to go overboard with my lovely opinions beyond "i like X" (3 posts might be enough) but putting it in D and pressing the "gas" will aways feel slushy if i'm not actively controlling the disconnection of the drive wheels during a stop and the slip during setting off. Feeling the car doing things on its own in the seat of my pants is unnerving. To a lesser extent I worry it encourages inattentiveness and feels like its taking control away from me. I wont pretend to not be an automotive luddite, but this is really just a control configuration preference i wont want to lose as i hopefully transition to electric. Plus i enjoy every second of it, even in heavy traffic. Have you driven any EVs? Edit - you haven't, and you really have some odd misconceptions about how EVs drive.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:53
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I've never driven an EV either, much as I profess wanting to buy/lease one in two years. I wonder how much a dealer would hate me if I walk in for a test drive for a two-years-from-now lease. 
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 00:35
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wolrah posted:I thought they got rid of it because they kept breaking gearboxes in the prototypes. It's a lot easier to make a simple reduction box sturdy compared to a shiftable transmission. Yeah, that's what I mean. They dropped features to save money (after already taking preorders).
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Jul 24, 2015 00:45
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Oh I had an actual question that I'm having a bit of trouble googling for, about EV fuel economy. - Does EV mileage suffer from start-stop traffic to the same degree ICE vehicles do? - Do EVs lose proportionately more range for being a lead foot (i.e. gunning it to 45 as opposed to accelerating sedately from the light) like ICE vehicles? - I stumbled on a random sentence somewhere last week saying someone's EV range was worse on the freeways than on the side roads for their commute, despite similar range, which confused the hell out of me. Don't even remember where I saw it, is there remotely any truth to that? Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 00:59
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Ciaphas posted:I've never driven an EV either, much as I profess wanting to buy/lease one in two years. I wonder how much a dealer would hate me if I walk in for a test drive for a two-years-from-now lease. EVs are still enough of a novelty that they're used to it.
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Jul 24, 2015 01:30
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Ciaphas posted:- Does EV mileage suffer from start-stop traffic to the same degree ICE vehicles do? These are pretty simple, common questions. Answer to the first one is no, opposite from ICE vehicles, stop/start traffic is more efficient than highway traffic for EVs; it is actually the most efficient type of road condition to move an EV in. This is due to regenerative braking and reduced aerodynamic drag. Answer to the second one is yes, driving faster makes you lose more range than driving slower, mostly due to aerodynamic drag, which is a force that rises exponentially with speed.
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Jul 24, 2015 01:54
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:I would think that, given the choice of a) making an EV just reverse the electric motor itself, which probably requires no additional parts and b) using an actual reverse gear (with all the added moving parts that brings) the solution is obvious. I'm not sure that it would be possible to "damage" an electric motor by reversing it while its still moving forward, since it's just making a magnetic field do the work. Motor/generators are funny. There's a lot of stuff going on under the hood, so to speak, that to the layman just looks like "no moving parts!  ". But there's a whole poo poo load of moving electrons! And boy howdy are they moving, and they don't much like being told to move the other way. Now you can totally design a system to take that into consideration, and it might be a more robust solution than just slapping on a reverse gear, but if you think stopping an electric motor spinning one way and start spinning the other way is a non-event, a lot of expensive engineering has gone into making it so. If it helps, think of a reciprocating engine, and ask yourself why you can't just vary the timing to start spinning crankshaft in the opposite direction instead of having a reverse gear. Same basic problem to overcome; what the gently caress to do with all that energy. It's just *easier* to deal with the physics with electromagnetism.
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Jul 24, 2015 02:21
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Ciaphas posted:- Do EVs lose proportionately more range for being a lead foot (i.e. gunning it to 45 as opposed to accelerating sedately from the light) like ICE vehicles? I needed to drive an extra 30 miles today above normal and forgot to hit the charging over-ride button last night to get a full 100% charge instead of the usual 80%. I drove in to work this morning taking it easy (not hypermiling but definitely trying to be good) and it used fully 1/3 less of the battery than I usually do being a lead foot. That said, electricity is so cheap that I'll be back to normal tomorrow. I love being able to drive a good road aggressively without burning $5 in gas to do it. Edit: Something I don't think most people mention: I love being able to attack a curve without having to either lug the engine at the entrance or run out of revs on the exit. I can be on the power all the way through. You also don't have to worry about an automatic shifting halfway through and losing traction (but who wants to drive one of those through the curves, anyway?). Advent Horizon fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 06:54
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Clever use for old EV batteries: http://www.wired.com/2015/07/rolling-battery-fixes-ev-chargings-big-problems/ Put them in a cart to use as a mobile charging station at business parks.
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Jul 24, 2015 14:26
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duz posted:Clever use for old EV batteries: http://www.wired.com/2015/07/rolling-battery-fixes-ev-chargings-big-problems/ Sweet no more icing or fake charging. It also creates jobs for son in laws. Now I just need to add a hitch to my leaf and tow one around.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:31
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Can the Tesla safely run while you're not in it for awhile? I remember hearing something about like how you can have it start the AC and all that before you get in, is it safely locked during that time? I was just wondering if you actually could leave your dogs in the car or whatever because you could keep the AC running while the car is locked while you're eating or whatever, but I would probably be too nervous to do it anyway since you couldn't really tell if it turned off for some reason.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:14
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Linedance posted:If it helps, think of a reciprocating engine, and ask yourself why you can't just vary the timing to start spinning crankshaft in the opposite direction instead of having a reverse gear. Same basic problem to overcome; what the gently caress to do with all that energy. It's just *easier* to deal with the physics with electromagnetism. Funny thing, some snowmobiles (and possibly other similar vehicles) do exactly this for reverse, they literally run the engine backwards. It's only practical with two stroke motors currently (though presumably an independent valve control technology like Koenigsegg's prototype could make it workable with four strokes) but it does work. IIRC Ski-Doo turned what had previously been a quirk of two strokes that happened accidentally from time to time in to an actual controllable thing in the late '90s. I remember reading an article in Popular Mechanics about it when I was a kid but I have no idea what terms to search to find it now.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:22
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Stefan Prodan posted:Can the Tesla safely run while you're not in it for awhile? I remember hearing something about like how you can have it start the AC and all that before you get in, is it safely locked during that time? I was just wondering if you actually could leave your dogs in the car or whatever because you could keep the AC running while the car is locked while you're eating or whatever, but I would probably be too nervous to do it anyway since you couldn't really tell if it turned off for some reason. The car (drivetrain, etc.) doesn't turn on, just the climate control components. It stays locked. You can monitor the climate control state and internal temperature from the app.   You'd still risk having someone break open your window because they don't know it's being cooled, I suppose.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:31
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Subjunctive posted:
This is a good point. I'd leave a sign saying "don't worry! A/C is running, dog is more comfortable than you outside!"
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Jul 24, 2015 19:40
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It's becoming a running joke in the sheriff's office around here because they get so many calls about it, high school kids love breaking car windows to "save" dogs regardless of temperature, windows, car running or not AC on or not, sign or not, they just love to smash and "save" and then snapchat or tweet or whatever about it.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:17
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Haha really? I saw that thing on facebook about the woman smashing the car to save the toddler so I assumed it was actually news since it was rare, didn't realize people were just doing it all over the place
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Jul 24, 2015 23:14
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Stefan Prodan posted:Haha really? I saw that thing on facebook about the woman smashing the car to save the toddler so I assumed it was actually news since it was rare, didn't realize people were just doing it all over the place There's been laws working their way across the US that make it explicitly legal to smash a window to "save" any living thing left in a car. People love a chance to smash something.
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Jul 24, 2015 23:18
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WARNING: DOG HATES HEAT, SO IT HAS AIR CON IF YOU SMASH THE WINDOW AND LET HEAT IN IT WILL TEAR YOUR SKIN OFF TO PATCH THE HOLE
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Jul 25, 2015 00:21
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Just put a bigass thermometer on the dash or something.
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Jul 25, 2015 14:51
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Ola posted:WARNING: DOG HATES HEAT, SO IT HAS AIR CON You joke, but it would be as simple as a big vinyl sticker saying "This dog is air conditioned." on each back window. On the face of it, and im sure there is a subtlety i am missing; i support window smashing laws. If it saves 2 dogs and kills 200 windows its worth it. Glass is not alive. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 14:53
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MattD1zzl3 posted:You joke, but it would be as simple as a big vinyl sticker saying "This dog is air conditioned." on each back window. On the face of it, and im sure there is a subtlety i am missing; i support window smashing laws. If it saves 2 dogs and kills 200 windows its worth it. Glass is not alive. But think of how many shelter dogs you could feed with the money saved by not replacing 198 windows.
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Jul 25, 2015 15:00
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MattD1zzl3 posted:You joke, but it would be as simple as a big vinyl sticker saying "This dog is air conditioned." on each back window. On the face of it, and im sure there is a subtlety i am missing; i support window smashing laws. If it saves 2 dogs and kills 200 windows its worth it. Glass is not alive. Vinyl is a terrible idea, because it doesn't show that the temperature is acceptable or not. Or that you forgot to turn it on.
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Jul 25, 2015 15:08
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"It's cool inside, touch the glass and see!"
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Jul 25, 2015 15:13
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There was a news item the other day, where a well meaning concerned citizen smashed a window, and the dog jumped out and ran away. Good job concerned citizen!
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Jul 25, 2015 15:36
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Cakefool posted:Vinyl is a terrible idea, because it doesn't show that the temperature is acceptable or not. Or that you forgot to turn it on. Thats fine, the cop that forgot to turn on the A/C spends the rest of his life in jail for the murder of a cop. They dont mind slapping that charge on black dudes that shoot/injure a police dog.
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Jul 25, 2015 15:36
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I went and test drove a '15 LEAF (that's an acronym? Huh.) today, first time I've been in an electric (not even been in a hybrid before). I'm surprised by how much I enjoyed the driving experience; I guess the instant torque of an electric motor and direct transmission makes the difference for my style of driving. Brakes didn't feel mushy, like I was told to expect for an electric/hybrid, either--or at least not different enough from my current car ('14 Mazda 3 if anyone cares) for me to notice. Surprised at how much passing power it had--only took a couple seconds to get from 65 to 75 or whatever to pass on the highway, and it easily passed the "Can this car get to highway speed by the end of a short merge lane e.g. the 215W/Eastern entrance" test despite my fears of cheaper electric cars being gutless after 45mph. Two years for my lease to expire can't pass soon enough now 
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Jul 25, 2015 22:50
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Will do. But is it much different from an enclosed, polished golf kart? What golf cart do you know about that weighs 3000 lbs? So much of the driving experience derives from the weight of the car, the suspension geometry, etc.
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Jul 26, 2015 04:03
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I'm kiiinda considering maybe getting a Tesla this year or next year possibly, my car is almost at 100k miles and is going to cost a ton to maintain probably (Jaguar XF with the supercharger), so it might even save a bit more than the $17k gas/tax credit. Counting those off the purchase price and selling my current car for like 20k, that's a net of like 50k for an 85d which is pretty doable. The main reason I might actually do it is just the safety thing, as far as I can tell the model S is literally the safest thing you can possibly drive, and since I can afford it you can't really put a price on safety, or if you can it should be worth a lot I think. That might be thing that actually lets me rationalize getting one, not the fossil fuel part or the part where even the middle trim one is fast as gently caress (4.2 is almost a full second faster to 60 than my current car which I feel is already pretty drat fast). I can't really decide how long to wait for them to like slightly improve the interior or get other minor features that I'd kinda like, like a HUD (I know it's silly but I actually do feel like it's probably better for safety and also just pretty cool and if BMW and MB have them I assume Tesla will have one before long). I've heard mixed reviews of the current interior but I've never seen it myself in person. I know it's shallow but the interior quality does matter to me a decent amount, especially with a car of this price point. How do the test drives work anyway, in states with no dealerships (I'm in NC)? Do you just schedule some time and they like bring it to your house and you go drive around wherever you want together or do you have to go meet them somewhere?
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Jul 26, 2015 05:27
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Stefan Prodan posted:How do the test drives work anyway, in states with no dealerships (I'm in NC)?  From what I can see Tesla has 2 dealerships listed in NC, in Raleigh as well as Matthews outside of Charlotte.http://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/?search=store&place=charlottematthews
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Jul 26, 2015 06:42
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Oh I thought we were one of the states that didn't allow them to have dealerships or whatever, I forgot what the whole thing was exactly since I was never considering one back when they first came out. Guess I was mistaken.
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Jul 26, 2015 08:51
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Tesla stores aren't dealerships, in the traditional sense. They're literally just outlets for Tesla Motors to sell their products. They'll have a limited selection of examples on hand for test drives, (my local Tesla store had two S85s an S85D, and a P85D, last time i was there,) but they don't maintain stock. They simply exist to give prospective customers a place to look at/sit in/drive the car.
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Jul 26, 2015 13:15
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Yes but in some states there some pretty heavy restrictions on their ability to actually SELL the cars. Like here in Utah, the SLC Tesla store can't actually sell any vehicles. They talk to people and I think do maintenance.
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Jul 26, 2015 17:54
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