GhostofJohnMuir posted:

I for one hope the Chinese have found the solution for creating infinite prosperity out of thin air.

tsa posted:

"October 25th"

Invisible Handjob posted:

Well I guess that's one way to promote a positive atmosphere, just ban all the negative news. Not like those tuhao traders are going to search anything else out.

rex rabidorum vires posted:

I would think bank of China is supplying the money to certain entities to purchase shares to create a price floor at the expense of say increased lending or increasing the money supply..

rex rabidorum vires posted:

It could create a huge feedback loop of BoC investment through expansionary monetary to create an infinite rise of the market

Daduzi posted:

Minor point, but you're confusing Bank of China (a retail bank, though state owned like all Chinese banks) with the People's Bank of China (the Chinese central bank).

SweetAsselin posted:

?

quote:

GDP grew 7.0 percent on-year in the second quarter, beating a Reuters poll forecast for 6.9 percent.

Industrial output for June rose 6.8 percent on-year, beating a Reuters poll forecast for 6.0 percent, while last month's retail sales climbed 10.6 percent, ahead of the Reuters poll forecast for 10.2 percent.

tsa posted:

It's not a perfect comparison because back then we didn't have the manipulation mechanisms that we have now, or the willingness to throw that much at it to prevent a fall. I'm sure China can keep the ship floating for a decent amount of time but they are burning through money at an alarming rate to do so.

e: Also who knows how accurate the government data is.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/14/china-2q-gdp-grows-70-slightly-above-expectations.html


Real? Made up? Can't be a good sign when you beat expectations across the board and are still most likely going to be down 1-2% on the day.

Fojar38 posted:

Ahahaha 7% on the dot huh? Coincidentally right in line with the government target? Amidst a stock market meltdown and weak data from everywhere else? They're full of poo poo.

Xerxes17 posted:

China is making a great leap forward in economic management.

Xerxes17 posted:

China is making a great leap forward in economic management.

Poil posted:

I assume they still haven't done anything about the whole optimistically misreporting to look better thing that's certainly helping matters along as well.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

quote:

The world’s biggest hedge fund has turned on the world’s fastest-growing economy.

Bridgewater Associates LP, one of Wall Street’s more outspoken bulls on China, told investors this week that the country’s recent stock-market rout will likely have broad, far-reaching repercussions.

The fund’s executives once had been vocal advocates of China’s potential. But that was before panic in the country’s stock markets shaved a third of the value off Shanghai’s main index, battering hordes of mom-and-pop investors and hedge funds alike, before partially rebounding.

“Our views about China have changed,” Bridgewater’s billionaire founder, Raymond Dalio, wrote with colleagues in a note sent to clients earlier this week. “There are now no safe places to invest.”

Bridgewater, which has $169 billion under management, is renowned for its ability to navigate global economic trends—including the profit it turned in 2008, when most of its peers lost big. The company’s flagship fund reported its worst month in nearly a year in June, trimming its gains for 2015 to about 10%, a person familiar with the matter said.

A spokeswoman declined to elaborate on the fund’s changing views on China.

The move adds Mr. Dalio and Bridgewater to a growing chorus of high-profile investors who are challenging the long-held view that China’s rise will provide a ballast to a whole host of investments, from commodities to bonds to shares in multinational firms. For a generation, bets on China’s rising middle class have been commonplace on Wall Street and beyond as investors have looked to diversify their holdings.

But with the country’s stocks on a roller-coaster ride this summer, those beliefs are being tested. The world’s second-largest economy faces renewed questions about the sustainability of its growth and the government’s commitment to loosening its grip on the country’s heavily controlled markets.

Kingdon Capital Management LLC, a nearly $3 billion New York hedge-fund firm, told clients this week it had sold all its shares in Chinese companies listed on the Hong Kong exchange. It said it was spooked by the fallout from a surge in China in the use of borrowed money to purchase stocks, particularly after authorities cracked down on the practice, helping drag down Kingdon’s investments.

The firm said it would wait until the level of such borrowing in the market drops further before going in anew.

The shifts by Kingdon and Bridgewater follow a series of concerns raised publicly last week about China by other high-profile hedge-fund managers, including Elliott Management Corp. founder Paul Singer, Perry Capital LLC founderRichard Perry and Pershing Square Capital Management LP founder William Ackman. In China, few traders dare cross regulators by publicly expressing their concerns.

“It looks worse to me than 2007 in the United States,” Mr. Ackman said during an investment conference in New York, pointing to the unreliability of the government’s economic statistics. “Much worse.”

Mr. Ackman has a long-running bet against nutritional-products maker Herbalife Ltd., partly based on his belief that the firm’s fast-growing Chinese business is illegal and part of a global pyramid scheme.

Herbalife has denied the allegations.

The shifts are also a blow to Chinese leaders who have sought to woo international investors into their tightly controlled market. Even before the selloff, global investors from hedge funds to big mutual-fund firms had been reluctant to invest directly in the country, despite the Chinese government’s efforts to make it easier for foreign investors to buy mainland-listed stocks, known as A-shares. Aggressive measures to stem the rout underscored concerns about China’s unpredictable government and lack of transparency, investors say.

Overseas investors have pulled cash out of Chinese stocks via a trading link between Hong Kong and Shanghai for 12 of the past 13 trading days, according to Hong Kong stock-exchange data.

At its trough on July 8, the Shanghai Composite Index was off 32% from its June highs. Even days after the market began to climb back, about half of the 2,800 stocks listed on the Shanghai and Shenzhen markets remained suspended from trading, though many have since resumed.

The Shanghai Composite edged up 0.2% Wednesday but remains down 22% from its high in June. The smaller Shenzhen market, where nearly a quarter of stocks remain suspended from trading, rose 1% Wednesday.

The stock-market rout adds to a growing list of hurdles China faces. While its economy expanded at a 7% annual rate in the second quarter—a level many economists thought would be hard to reach—many areas, such as building and infrastructure investment, showed weakness even after a succession of recent interest-rate cuts. China’s political leaders are also pushing to reduce the dependence of its slowing economy on export-driven growth and to lessen the heavy debt load of state-owned firms.

Some big investors in the region still see a chance to pounce. Eashwar Krishnan, who runs the $3 billion Hong Kong-based Tybourne Capital Management (HK) Ltd., said in a note to investors earlier this month that he has been heartened by regulators’ efforts to clean up the market and is “now looking through the rubble for other diamonds in the rough” to bolster Tybourne’s sole A-shares position.

Mr. Krishnan, formerly the Asia head of Lone Pine Capital LLC, had previously steered clear of Chinese shares as Shanghai stocks doubled in a year due to Mr. Krishnan’s concerns over what he called “clear” market manipulation and a worrying surge in individual investors borrowing money to buy stocks. A firm spokesman didn’t respond to requests for comment.

The change by Bridgewater is a particularly sharp reversal. Mr. Dalio has gone out of his way in the past to praise Chinese President Xi Jinping and has compared the country’s economic environment to a patient undergoing a heart transplant by a skilled surgeon.

In a note to clients in June, Mr. Dalio said China’s problems “represent opportunities” because they give policy makers a chance to make positive reforms. As recently as earlier this month, Mr. Dalio wrote that the stock-market move was “not significantly reflective of, or influential on, the Chinese economy, Chinese investors, or foreign investors,” with the market still largely driven by a small pool of speculative investors in China.

But this week, Mr. Dalio said he was particularly alarmed about the psychological damage of the stock-market decline. While prices remain above their levels from two years ago, many ordinary investors are sitting on losses because they piled in more recently, he said.

“Even those who haven’t lost money in stocks will be affected psychologically by events, and those effects will have a depressive effect on economic activity,” Mr. Dalio wrote.

Ardennes posted:

So the Shanghai exchange just dropped 8%, the show isn't over folks.

AllanGordon posted:

It's okay. They'll just suspend all the stocks again and things will keep going up.

quote:

China has enlisted $800 billion worth of public and private money to prop up its wobbly stock markets, a Reuters analysis shows, but the impact of the unprecedented government-orchestrated rescue has so far been modest.

Public statements, media reports and market data reveal that Beijing unleashed 5 trillion yuan (515 billion pounds) in funds - equivalent to nearly 10 percent of China's GDP in 2014 and greater than the 4 trillion yuan it committed in response to the global financial crisis - to calm a savage share sell-off.

But while the 2008 stimulus package staved off recession, analysts wonder what benefit the stock rescue package can bring to offset the risk the government is buying stocks at valuations private investors are no longer willing to pay.

"I'm quite negative towards the rescue," said Yang Weixiao, analyst at Founder Securities in Beijing.

TheBalor posted:

What the gently caress. This isn't like the first stock market crash they've had, right? Why are they staking so goddamn much on being able to push back the tide?

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

China spent 10% of its 2014 GDP on propping up the stock market lmao

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/23/uk-china-markets-rescue-idUKKCN0PX0AU20150723?link=mktw

paragon1 posted:

Where is all that money going? Macau?

Vladimir Putin posted:

It's more or less vanishing into thin air.

Arglebargle III posted:

No, those were actual RMBs going into somebody's account. That's his point.

paragon1 posted:

Canada's gonna have more visa requests and real estate deals than it can shake a stick at.