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Hrm...For some reason I remember a line when she was making his candle about how you shouldn't force your will on the world or somesuch but she decided to ignore that for him since she didn't have time, but I can't find it. edit: actually, now that I think about it, was she naming or shaping at the end? Flattened Spoon fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 13:12
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This Let's Read is spot on. The dude makes all the same observations and complaints I made when I read the first however many chapters before putting the book down forever. Also, reading the LR led me to this gem on Rothfuss' blog. Is his poor hapless son actually named "Oot" or is that some beautiful monkey cheese nickname that's also hopefully a D&D reference?
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Jul 25, 2015 15:43
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jivjov posted:http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2012/02/concerning-hobbits-love-and-movie-adaptations/ He was close to 40 when he wrote that, which means his high school crush has been something he had obsessed with for 2 decades. That is not the behavior of a sane human being.
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Jul 25, 2015 17:07
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Martello posted:Also, reading the LR led me to this gem on Rothfuss' blog. He doesn't use his kids' real names on his blog or in interviews. I completely understand that, but yeah, he did pick silly nicknames to use.
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Jul 25, 2015 17:16
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Ah, yeah, ok, that's legit I guess. But holy poo poo the man-scent thing 
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Jul 25, 2015 17:27
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pentyne posted:He was close to 40 when he wrote that, which means his high school crush has been something he had obsessed with for 2 decades. I... I think it's a metaphor, man.
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Jul 25, 2015 17:56
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pentyne posted:He was close to 40 when he wrote that, which means his high school crush has been something he had obsessed with for 2 decades. Is there any evidence that he's talking about an actual high school crush? Or is he just making a (really forced and sorta twisted) metaphor?
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Jul 25, 2015 18:00
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Martello posted:This Let's Read is spot on. The dude makes all the same observations and complaints I made when I read the first however many chapters before putting the book down forever.
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Jul 25, 2015 18:30
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It's probably nothing, but it's awfully specific and like it has been pointed out, it's a bizarre and, frankly, creepy analogy for comparing a book to its loving blockbuster movie adaptation. I'm honestly surprised his feminist friends or acquaintances didn't call him out on that. He sure likes to deface himself publicly in the name of feminism but when it comes to the brass tax of showing that through in his writing he doesn't even make an effort.
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Jul 25, 2015 18:32
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Mars4523 posted:There's a hilarious Let's Read of early Dresden as well (Recursive sergeants).
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Jul 25, 2015 18:42
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Martello posted:This Let's Read is spot on. The dude makes all the same observations and complaints I made when I read the first however many chapters before putting the book down forever. I love that blog. He's good at calling people on their lovely writing while still being entertaining.
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Jul 26, 2015 06:49
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anilEhilated posted:Yeah, except Butcher took criticism and got a lot better at writing. Rothfuss is getting progressively worse.
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Jul 26, 2015 07:44
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Mars4523 posted:Butcher may have improved his prose slightly, but he still hasn't gotten better at not coming off like a sexist creep. But that's a matter for a different thread. Being a bit "old fashioned" sexist is kinda Harry Dresden's character trait though. Look at Butcher's writing when he's coming from a different character's POV, and the issue vanishes. It's a deliberate affectation for Dresden.
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Jul 26, 2015 11:32
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jivjov posted:Being a bit "old fashioned" sexist is kinda Harry Dresden's character trait though. Look at Butcher's writing when he's coming from a different character's POV, and the issue vanishes. It's a deliberate affectation for Dresden.
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Jul 26, 2015 15:14
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jivjov posted:Being a bit "old fashioned" sexist is kinda Harry Dresden's character trait though. Look at Butcher's writing when he's coming from a different character's POV, and the issue vanishes. It's a deliberate affectation for Dresden.
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Jul 26, 2015 15:58
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I haven't read Wise Man's Fear. The frame story is the same as the first, though, right - Old Kvothe telling his story to the Chronicler guy? My question is then so what happens to the conceit of "the man behind the myth" thing, how does this hold up with the sex-ninja sequences? I thought the frame was here he is telling the "Truth", y'know, I didn't burn a town, a lizard that's totally not a dragon did, thing. So the Felurian stuff and the Ademre stuff, then, is intended to be "true" ? It's not going to be revealed in the 3rd book that this is part of his legend that was inflated? If it turns out he's lying to the Chronicler too, well uhhh I don't really understand the point of these books other than "Dorky losers like to pretend to be cool and good at things". It makes sense that he wrote these in college, but what made him finally publish them? I didn't realize Rothfuss was over 40 now. I thought he was a late 20s early 30s guy at most. He sat on this poo poo for 10 years before deciding the world needed sex-fairies..? I know getting published isn't easy but it seems weird to publish as your first what's basically juvenilia, in your late 30s. edit: when I say these make sense as college writing, I mean the weak plotting and light content coupled with a few try-hard lines like the "cut-flower sound" stuff make it seem like he wrote a few heavy scenes and tried to turn it into a book with filler. I feel like the fantasy trope subversion (which isn't exactly groundbreaking in the 2000s) thing is just an excuse for his inability to write decent action or focused plot. If the sex-fairy stuff "really happened" then it seems pretty clear he just dressed up some juvenile fantasies with a "subversion" facade. Does anyone have links to some of the more glowing reviews from when Name of the Wind came out? shallowj fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 16:45
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He wrote the first one in college. The rest came after, I believe, though presumably the central concepts have been in existence since the first one came into being. Yes, the frame story in WMF is the same. No, there's no apparent unreliable narratoring in the sex fairy and sex ninja sequences and in general the frame device is less obvious in the second one.
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Jul 26, 2015 17:19
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shallowj posted:I haven't read Wise Man's Fear. The frame story is the same as the first, though, right - Old Kvothe telling his story to the Chronicler guy? My question is then so what happens to the conceit of "the man behind the myth" thing, how does this hold up with the sex-ninja sequences? I thought the frame was here he is telling the "Truth", y'know, I didn't burn a town, a lizard that's totally not a dragon did, thing. So the Felurian stuff and the Ademre stuff, then, is intended to be "true" ? It's not going to be revealed in the 3rd book that this is part of his legend that was inflated? If it turns out he's lying to the Chronicler too, well uhhh I don't really understand the point of these books other than "Dorky losers like to pretend to be cool and good at things". Rothfuss went off the rails HARD in WMF even if you didn't think that NotW wasn't great writing (I would argue it wasn't). Any pretense of investigating the connection between myth, legend, and reality falls apart. In the first book you get the draccus, which is the "real" creature the dragon legend was based on. And you see that Kvothe didn't call lightning down on people so much as he threw some flash powder at them. In WMF he literally kills dozens of people by calling real lightning down on them, and he really does have awesome sex with a primordial goddess of sex and death (who is blown away by his virginal sexual prowess even after untold centuries of leading men to their death via sex). As to the time table, I imagine he shopped it around for a while before anyone wanted to touch it. We're kind of on an upswing in fantasy as a popular genre post-Harry Potter and Game of Thrones.
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Jul 27, 2015 06:13
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The main problem is that Rothfuss really shot himself in the foot with that "three days" thing, the second book would be pretty good in longer series but in a trilogy it's way too slow
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Jul 27, 2015 10:45
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Karnegal posted:Rothfuss went off the rails HARD in WMF even if you didn't think that NotW wasn't great writing (I would argue it wasn't). Any pretense of investigating the connection between myth, legend, and reality falls apart. In the first book you get the draccus, which is the "real" creature the dragon legend was based on. And you see that Kvothe didn't call lightning down on people so much as he threw some flash powder at them. I agree that WMF was pretty lovely and incredibly juvenile, but I'm holding out hope that the framing story bit was intentional. My theory is that book one is about mundane stories taking on mythic elements when they spread, book two is about him doing mythic events that contribute to his legend while they spread, and book three is about him doing world-changing events (killing a Chandrian, opening the door that holds the moon's name, whatever) that are so outside the bounds of normal that they get watered down in the process of becoming myth.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:12
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mallamp posted:The main problem is that Rothfuss really shot himself in the foot with that "three days" thing, the second book would be pretty good in longer series but in a trilogy it's way too slow The series being longer would not make the Felurian and Adem parts any better and would likely just mean the next several books would be worse. If/when the third book comes out if it isn't Storm of Swords-grade or better I hope his writing career comes to a screeching halt because WMF, if it had been his first book, would've been the last as well.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:21
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Evil Fluffy posted:If/when the third book comes out if it isn't Storm of Swords-grade or better I hope his writing career comes to a screeching halt because WMF, if it had been his first book, would've been the last as well. I suspect Rothfuss knows this, which is why we're never going to see book 3.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:44
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Martello posted:This Let's Read is spot on. The dude makes all the same observations and complaints I made when I read the first however many chapters before putting the book down forever. I was about to read his Rothfuss Let's Read, but then I had to stop because I noticed he abandoned his Way of Kings Let's Read and declared the book boring, which unfortunately robs him of all authority to judge the quality of a a work of fantasy literature.
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Jul 27, 2015 20:00
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Evil Fluffy posted:The series being longer would not make the Felurian and Adem parts any better and would likely just mean the next several books would be worse. If/when the third book comes out if it isn't Storm of Swords-grade or better I hope his writing career comes to a screeching halt because WMF, if it had been his first book, would've been the last as well.
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Jul 27, 2015 20:10
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Torrannor posted:I was about to read his Rothfuss Let's Read, but then I had to stop because I noticed he abandoned his Way of Kings Let's Read and declared the book boring, which unfortunately robs him of all authority to judge the quality of a a work of fantasy literature. You might not want to spend too much time investigating/rereading Sanderson's long form writing. I can see how his style and pacing would be a turn off to a lot of people, and I don't think arguments to be made in that direction are unfounded. I personally like it, but I don't hold it up as a paragon of the genre. By comparison, if someone tells me they don't like The Book of the New Sun (Gene Wolfe), I assume they are illiterate human garbage.
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Jul 27, 2015 20:56
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Notahippie posted:I agree that WMF was pretty lovely and incredibly juvenile, but I'm holding out hope that the framing story bit was intentional. My theory is that book one is about mundane stories taking on mythic elements when they spread, book two is about him doing mythic events that contribute to his legend while they spread, and book three is about him doing world-changing events (killing a Chandrian, opening the door that holds the moon's name, whatever) that are so outside the bounds of normal that they get watered down in the process of becoming myth. This would imply a lot more self-awareness than Rothfuss has demonstrated.
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Jul 27, 2015 22:36
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I'm 30 chapters into Ronan Wills' Let's Read of Wise Man's Fear and I'm convinced Rothfuss is trolling everyone. He has to be right?
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Jul 28, 2015 00:07
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The thing that bugs me about the sex-ninjas is that they supposedly speak a tonal language, but really, really quietly and discretely, assisted by hand signals. Living in the country with the largest number of tonal language speakers in the world, I'm convinced Rothfuss doesn't have a loving clue about tonal languages.
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Jul 28, 2015 00:32
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Notahippie posted:I agree that WMF was pretty lovely and incredibly juvenile, but I'm holding out hope that the framing story bit was intentional. My theory is that book one is about mundane stories taking on mythic elements when they spread, book two is about him doing mythic events that contribute to his legend while they spread, and book three is about him doing world-changing events (killing a Chandrian, opening the door that holds the moon's name, whatever) that are so outside the bounds of normal that they get watered down in the process of becoming myth. So if the POV was from a teen in puberty, it would actually make a lot of sense and be hilarious. Unfortunately, it is adult Kvothe describing his younger self, so the idea doesn't hold up. Given the narrative to date, we are forced to believe these things really did happen.
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Jul 28, 2015 01:18
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ulmont posted:I suspect Rothfuss knows this, which is why we're never going to see book 3. I think it is partly this and partly that Rothfuss loves being a "famous writer" more than he loves writing. Torrannor posted:I was about to read his Rothfuss Let's Read, but then I had to stop because I noticed he abandoned his Way of Kings Let's Read and declared the book boring, which unfortunately robs him of all authority to judge the quality of a a work of fantasy literature. I have tried to read Way of Kings at least twice and failed every time despite people telling me if I make it through the first 200 pages it becomes really good. I will eventually finish it but the beginning is very slow/too D&D or something.
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Jul 28, 2015 02:44
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Lyon posted:I think it is partly this and partly that Rothfuss loves being a "famous writer" more than he loves writing. It's worth reading book one just because book two had a scene that is basically straight out of wrestlemania. The only thing missing is a commentator pair.
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Jul 28, 2015 03:34
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Trammel posted:The thing that bugs me about the sex-ninjas is that they supposedly speak a tonal language, but really, really quietly and discretely, assisted by hand signals. I think the logic goes: tonal languages = asia = martial arts dudes
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Jul 28, 2015 07:11
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mallamp posted:Wheel of Time kept going on just fine despite dumb poo poo every now and then. And after worst book Jordan wrote one of the best. If it was, say 7 days, you could easily have three books of Harry Potter college edition and some faerie sex here and there, but when you're going for trilogy with a premise of unreliable narrator becoming a legend, that's just not going to work. I bet Rothfuss regrets limiting himself to three days. He could split third day in two books, I guess, but that's not enough at this point. Or he could simply have the story to Chronicler end and kick him out, go up to his room, and then when Bast comes in he decides he really needs to talk about 'everything else' and when Bast leaves to go get the guy he stops him and says he'd rather only Bast hear it. I mean there's definitely going to be decent ways to go about it, even having the third day end and Kothe is so wound up that he ends up deciding to keep going or something. If Rothfuss ever stops trying to out delay GRRM at releasing his next book we may find out. The problem is that after WMF I'm really not sure Rothfuss could pull it off unless WMF was just a massive brainfart (assuming he even considers anything to be seriously wrong in WMF). The book was worse than random stuff I've grabbed for a dollar (or free) off the iBooks and Kindle stores, like the cycle of Arawn books. Plus even if he got glowing reviews for WMF, he is not GRRM and can't just yank around Tor or whomever his publisher is like GRRM can and get away with it. It really doesn't help that I went from Kingkiller to Stormlight Archives though since those books were better in pretty much any way (and both start slow). Even the early Shallan chapters were better than most of WMF's chapters though I'm skipping pretty much all of her book 1 stuff on any rereads. Benson Cunningham posted:It's worth reading book one just because book two had a scene that is basically straight out of wrestlemania. The only thing missing is a commentator pair. I'm blanking on the scene you're referring to. Do you mean the arena fight where Kaladin jumps in to help Adolin or something else? I haven't read it since it came out but the only other that comes to mind is maybe a fight with the enemy's shardplate/bearer commander which I think turned in to a bit of a brawl?
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Jul 28, 2015 07:43
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Evil Fluffy posted:
I'm referring to the first spoiler you listed. It's amazing.
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Jul 28, 2015 15:17
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Torrannor posted:I was about to read his Rothfuss Let's Read, but then I had to stop because I noticed he abandoned his Way of Kings Let's Read and declared the book boring, which unfortunately robs him of all authority to judge the quality of a a work of fantasy literature. Way of Kings is kind of a slog to be fair. Sanderson could have culled a significant amount of that book. Not like it's Rothfuss bad or anything, but it certainly bogged down and felt like a grind for stretches.
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Aug 3, 2015 20:16
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shallowj posted:I haven't read Wise Man's Fear. The frame story is the same as the first, though, right - Old Kvothe telling his story to the Chronicler guy? My question is then so what happens to the conceit of "the man behind the myth" thing, how does this hold up with the sex-ninja sequences? I thought the frame was here he is telling the "Truth", y'know, I didn't burn a town, a lizard that's totally not a dragon did, thing. So the Felurian stuff and the Ademre stuff, then, is intended to be "true" ? It's not going to be revealed in the 3rd book that this is part of his legend that was inflated? If it turns out he's lying to the Chronicler too, well uhhh I don't really understand the point of these books other than "Dorky losers like to pretend to be cool and good at things". I think the fairy stuff is somewhat redeemed in that Kvothe takes this newfound prowess to his crush and is all 'yeah, sup, I've hosed lots of girls, gently caress me' and get really confused when she blows him off because 17 year old him thought that's what she wanted. But I'm a weirdo in that I'm finding a lot of our framing device commentary deliberately making GBS threads on the antics of Young Kvothe. Like a lot of people here hate it for being unironically 'woo look how cool I am' but it's like every minor story in the segment mostly end with him loving up. Usually through some sort of impulse control issue or plain hubris.
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Aug 4, 2015 07:43
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True, but he still hosed a sex goddess better than she has been hosed before and hosed sex ninjas while learning their fighting skills. And also got patroned by a king-ish dude, got his schooling paid for by said king, found a way to make extra money off his king patron, and literally call lightning from the sky to smite an Chandrian. Where as in the first book he learned to play a lute because he was homeless and had nothing better to do, cheated on his exams to get into Hogwarts, stumbled rear end backwards into naming, and just barely beat a big drug addicted lizard with sympathy. It just seems like first book him was lucky and second book him was getting almost omnipotent. I can only imagine that in book 3 he will be literally flying, shooting laser beams out of his eyes, and maybe, just maybe, finally rescue that damned princess from the barrow king damnit!
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Aug 4, 2015 19:38
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Solice Kirsk posted:True, but he still hosed a sex goddess better than she has been hosed before and hosed sex ninjas while learning their fighting skills. And also got patroned by a king-ish dude, got his schooling paid for by said king, found a way to make extra money off his king patron, and literally call lightning from the sky to smite an Chandrian. Where as in the first book he learned to play a lute because he was homeless and had nothing better to do, cheated on his exams to get into Hogwarts, stumbled rear end backwards into naming, and just barely beat a big drug addicted lizard with sympathy. To be fair, I don't think he was her best lay, he was just the best virgin lay to the point where she didn't believe he was one.
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Aug 4, 2015 19:55
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Does that make that scene any less awkward or stupid?
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Aug 4, 2015 20:43
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Dienes posted:To be fair, I don't think he was her best lay, he was just the best virgin lay to the point where she didn't believe he was one. I thought it had nothing to do with his sexual prowess and more to do with the fact that he was able to name her. Also didn't he get his rear end kicked in his sex-ninja final test? After getting his rear end kicked repeatedly by a little girl?
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Aug 4, 2015 20:57
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