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littleorv
Jan 29, 2011

Madoka and Homura totally want to kiss each other.

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Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

good

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Namtab posted:

*in my morpheus voice* show me


quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

i apologize, there are only 5. here's two other mami figurines that are not in swimsuits.


quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

quote:

Madoka is that it is seperate from your typical Seinen Mahou Shoujo, it never relied on merchandising...

littleorv
Jan 29, 2011

Lmao

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

what is this filth? she didn't bandage her breasts with a sarashi

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

I like the second one best

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007

trucutru posted:

what is this filth? she didn't bandage her breasts with a sarashi

Uh only tomboys, athletes and crossdressing girls do that according to the anime I watch????

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum

Sakurazuka posted:

I think Gaim is still the last thing he actually wrote himself and that finished like a year ago?

He did the screenplay for Expelled from Paradise which was a pretty neat flick, and he finished a script in May and tweeted about it, saying it's the first 1-cour anime he's done on his own since Madoka.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
Those swimsuit figures are bad but not because of sexualization, they're just extremely mediocre.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Mami what's wrong with your faaaaaaaaaaace

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Sakurazuka posted:

Mami what's wrong with your faaaaaaaaaaace
there's this weird struggle going on between 'we need to accurately portray the show's artstyle' and 'ume aoki draws the least sexy faces in the world'

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum
Wideface is the opposite of a problem.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

| ___________________________________________________________________________________ | X

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum
   ,  -‐: : :  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄  : ―-
. ./: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : `: =-
. /: : : : : : : :/: : : /: : : : : : : ヽ: : : : ヽ: \
/: : : :..:/// : : / : /:イ : : }: : }、: ::} : : : : :ヽ
/: : \{从/ //:/ / |: : /∨ハ: ハ: :| : : : }
: /: /\:V三三三  j/  三三ミⅥ: :}∨
イ: : : : : : : \ヽヽヽ       ヽヽヽ }乂
:|/Vヘ: :ト二. _________, .イ: :ト:>―――――
::::::::::::::ヽ{::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::ヽ{ ̄::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Space Flower posted:

   ,  -‐: : :  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄  : ―-
. ./: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : `: =-
. /: : : : : : : :/: : : /: : : : : : : ヽ: : : : ヽ: \
/: : : :..:/// : : / : /:イ : : }: : }、: ::} : : : : :ヽ
/: : \{从/ //:/ / |: : /∨ハ: ハ: :| : : : }
: /: /\:V三三三  j/  三三ミⅥ: :}∨
イ: : : : : : : \ヽヽヽ       ヽヽヽ }乂
:|/Vヘ: :ト二. _________, .イ: :ト:>―――――
::::::::::::::ヽ{::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::ヽ{ ̄::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Space Flower posted:

Wideface is the opposite of a problem.

To me the bigger problem is that their eyes are cloudy. They should wash their irises more often.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

trucutru posted:

To me the bigger problem is that their eyes are cloudy.
it's a metaphor for their poor judgment and the delusion of being magical girls

littleorv
Jan 29, 2011

Endorph posted:

it's a metaphor for their poor judgment and the delusion of being magical girls

Yes but please go into this deeper with a minimum of 1000 words

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

Paging lord justice to the meguka megathread

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

mami looks like catherine in the towel fig

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
We need to go wider.

Lord Justice
Jul 24, 2012

"This god whom I created was human-made and madness, like all gods! Woman she was, and only a poor specimen of woman and ego. But I overcame myself, the sufferer; I carried my own ashes to the mountains; I invented a brighter flame for myself. And behold, then this god fled from me!"

Lestaki posted:

I think you're being unduly dismissive. Sayaka's whole deal is her romantic feelings for Kyousuke and how they motivate her wish but aren't addressed by her wish. Her body image issues relating to the soul gem reveal are a major part of the downward spiral, she's pushed further by Hitomi's relationship with Kyousuke, and the final blow is struck when she overhears men discussing how women are sex objects to them and nothing more. That's not a minor aspect, that's the beating heart of Sayaka's character arc. Which makes sense, because they're all teenage girls and these things happen.

Talking about that stuff encroaching on the series is just daft to me. If and when it happens, judge it based on whether it's justified by the writing.

My apologies, I realized later that I was conflating sexuality and sexualization, when they aren't the same thing. That said, I find Sayaka's arc is moreso defined by impossible idealism and the consequences of such, how attempting to be a hero of justice and emulating Mami's "example" only ends up destroying her. A lot of the relationship between the three characters can be defined as such, Sayaka attempting to heal Kyousuke in an altruistic manner, or struggling with regret over saving Hitomi. While romance does play a part, I feel only as an aid to the larger structure of Sayaka's arc and how it plays into Madoka as a whole.


You're misconstruing what I said. I've acknowledged the existence of merchandising for Madoka, my point is that Madoka is not designed around the merchandise. Most Seinen Mahou Shoujo is explictly designed to sell things to you, usually via sexualization, while Madoka is not. If it was, why isn't Madoka just another typical Mahou Shoujo anime with a hundred episodes and no point other than titillation and advertisement? Where, exactly, is the episode where Mami wears that clothing and is explicitly designed to sell it? We have one scene in Rebellion, which felt less like it was trying to sell me something and more just SHAFT abandoning their principles around Madoka. In the end, the figures exist because the anime is successful, they lie outside of what the anime is and what it is trying to achieve with its narrative and structure. In a word, they are irrelevant, and just exist as a way for Aniplex to derive value from the property separate from the anime itself.

trucutru posted:

holy lol! you're killing me.

Look, I'll give you a serious answer for a change.

Yes, sexuality is madoka is very minor... compared to most other shows. But, and this is going to blow your mind, madoka is not high art and its main purpose is not to express something but to make shitloads of money, and sex helps a lot with that. Both homura *and* madoka in their pokevolutions wear extremely sexy-cute dresses designed to sell poo poo. And boy, do they ever sell poo poo. 2011 was the year of the rear end in a top hat cat/rabbit thing: Japan was plastered with his face, Kyubey and his contract schtick were used to sell everything, from dolls to phone, computers and insurance. Whole neighborhoods were covered with his face.

I still don't agree with the distinction between high and low art. Art is art, and the judgement of it is subjective. As well, the argument that Madoka exists to make money is absurd, because of course it is. A majority of art created in a capitalist system is designed to generate revenue, that will always be part of the creation of it. Since this is the case, I don't feel it's relevant as an argument, because it's going to affect most art in totality. If we're going to apply the reasoning of revenue generation to art as a delegitimizing action, then most of art created in our society is delegitimized automatically.

trucutru posted:

Like, I make fun of your posts not only because you're over-analyzing a fairly straightforward show but because you just don't get some really simple stuff. Let me give you an example: the naked transformations are a staple of the genre and are not there to sexualize the girls, that's what the Sayaka butt-shots are for. Rebellion didn't want to de-sexualize them with the new transformations, they were instead focusing on having what scientists call rad-as-hell unorthodox transformation sequences and they did it! those rock (although I don't like madoka's)

Finally, remember that the show comes from a culture where cute=sexy and 14-16 year old girls are, using words you'll understand, the ne plus ultra of femininity. They are definitely selling that, but being (mostly) classy about it. And I don't mind because the story is really drat good.

A staple of the genre that Madoka A, mocks (see: Connect) B, barely has, and C, actively removed when adapting the series into movie format. I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Rebellion transformations, they're fine except for bits of Sayaka's. I'm aware of otaku culture, but just because I'm aware of it doesn't mean I need to accept or like it. To me, sexualization is pretty much universally negative, especially of teenagers, and the fact that a culture accepts sexualization such as this as a positive is even more damning. Anime won't get better and I realize that, I also realize that Madoka is mired in that culture even if it avoids the problems inherent to it, for the most part anyway. My overall point here is that Madoka and anime should be better than that, even if it's an impossible ideal.

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010

Lord Justice posted:

My overall point here is that anime should be better than that, even if it's an impossible ideal.

Lord "Emiya Shirou" Justice

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

I'm not translating that post tonight

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

What other seinen mahou shoujo even exists

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
My translation of that post is "I am either asexual or a literal child, and the concept of sexuality coming anywhere near me frightens me."

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Namtab posted:

What other seinen mahou shoujo even exists
nanoha?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

prism ilya

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

yuki yuna

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

My mind went dead and all I could remember is cardcaptor sakura and precure

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I was gonna say there's a difference between seinen and shounen but apparently seinen means teenagers and shounen means actual children, I always thought the term meant something older. Well that's your update into my life.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

Endorph posted:

yuki yuna

is that actually any good? most of what i've heard about it is "vaguely dark, vaguely gay magical girl show made in the wake of madoka"

Lord Justice
Jul 24, 2012

"This god whom I created was human-made and madness, like all gods! Woman she was, and only a poor specimen of woman and ego. But I overcame myself, the sufferer; I carried my own ashes to the mountains; I invented a brighter flame for myself. And behold, then this god fled from me!"

cheetah7071 posted:

My translation of that post is "I am either asexual or a literal child, and the concept of sexuality coming anywhere near me frightens me."

Sexualization is, at least in the case of female characters, designed solely to objectify them for the purposes of male titillation. This becomes even worse when it using teenage characters in a similar fashion. I don't see why it is a controversial or contrarian opinion to be against that sort of thing.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

Real talk though Lord justice, using all these big words don't actually make the content of your posts smarter, you just look pretentious

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Thuryl posted:

is that actually any good? most of what i've heard about it is "vaguely dark, vaguely gay magical girl show made in the wake of madoka"

I've watched the other two of those shows (good but jumps the shark and mediocre throughout, respecticely), so I want to know this too.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Thuryl posted:

is that actually any good? most of what i've heard about it is "vaguely dark, vaguely gay magical girl show made in the wake of madoka"
it's pretty decent. i like the girl in the wheelchair.

it's not really anything special though, and it flipflops on whether or not it wants to follow through on all the ideas it sets up.

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010

that's not really true, unless you are defining sexualization very narrowly

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Lord Justice posted:

Sexualization is, at least in the case of female characters, designed solely to objectify them for the purposes of male titillation.
no!

noooooo!


nooooooooooooooo!

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Lord Justice posted:

Sexualization is, at least in the case of female characters, designed solely to objectify them for the purposes of male titillation. This becomes even worse when it using teenage characters in a similar fashion. I don't see why it is a controversial or contrarian opinion to be against that sort of thing.

Sometimes boobs are just boobs, not weapons used by the patriarchy to oppress women.

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Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

I think the point of these new posts is to say that were all paedophiles

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