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DrBouvenstein posted:My problem isn't the tank sections, it's the drat driving. The Batmobile handles terribly. Ah okay. Assuming you're not just holding down the hand brake too long and over-drifting (which took me a while to get down), the other thing I found was that I was drifting too much. Power slides are great because they refill your boost meter, but the batmobile steering is actually pretty sensitive on its own and there are lots of turns where drifting seems to actually slow you down. Also make sure you're boosting out of power slides.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:04
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theflyingorc posted:Actually I did. People seem largely split on the batmobile. I think it sticks out like a sore thumb as an inclusion, and the constant repetition of 'shoot things with tank' irritated me, as I like punching mooks. It hasn't destroyed my life, but likewise I've not really been enjoying it as much as the batflight batsim and grappling around. I don't know that it really _adds_ much. The actual combat appears to have refined in a couple of subtle ways, and I'm a complete amateur at fighting, as the Steam friends can attest, but I've noticed that batman gets in a lot more hits on grounded opponents than he used to. Origins has a slightly slower and weighty fighting system, whereas the only word I have for this one is 'brutal'. theflyingorc posted:edit: My ONE complaint with the combat is that the timing on the big dudes is just awful. There's no rhythm to it like everything else, it's just "if a brute is attacking you, you had better counter immediately" I tend to avoid them because of the smaller window, so generally I'm smacking the mooks that didn't tool up first, then the prods, then the shields, and finally the big guys. Big guys with prods are loving horrible, though.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:22
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I've said it before but as much as I enjoyed the Batmobile content, I'd trade it all for an entire game full of Team up stuff. Permanent partners would do a lot to spice up the core gameplay more than the Batmobile did. I still think it's an interesting inclusion and well realized (!!) but at the end of the day it's a trumped up gadget similar to the remote batarang and I think it's easy to understand that if 40-50% of all puzzles in the game required the remote batarang, people would be poo poo talking it too.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:24
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Levantine posted:I've said it before but as much as I enjoyed the Batmobile content, I'd trade it all for an entire game full of Team up stuff. Permanent partners would do a lot to spice up the core gameplay more than the Batmobile did. I still think it's an interesting inclusion and well realized (!!) but at the end of the day it's a trumped up gadget similar to the remote batarang and I think it's easy to understand that if 40-50% of all puzzles in the game required the remote batarang, people would be poo poo talking it too. The team up combat was visually dazzling, but it seriously added almost nothing to the combat strategically. The reason it works so well is that it's used sparingly, but as a full "feature", it's actually much LESS robust than the Batmobile tank combat. If the game had twice as much of it, people would probably be complaining about it. That isn't to say that the feature couldn't be made really robust with some work - having to position relative to your partner for various moves would add a lot of depth.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:30
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theflyingorc posted:The team up combat was visually dazzling, but it seriously added almost nothing to the combat strategically. The reason it works so well is that it's used sparingly, but as a full "feature", it's actually much LESS robust than the Batmobile tank combat. I think that team up stuff fits better into the core gameplay of the Bataman games a whole though and would seem less like the sore thumb the Batmobile is. EDIT: yeah, I think if you changed things up a bit to make team up takedowns work similar to environmental takedowns, that would be cool. If I had my dream game right now, I'd give different partners different specialties so picking a partner is more than just aesthetic preference too.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:31
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Levantine posted:I think that team up stuff fits better into the core gameplay of the Bataman games a whole though and would seem less like the sore thumb the Batmobile is. quote:EDIT: yeah, I think if you changed things up a bit to make team up takedowns work similar to environmental takedowns, that would be cool. If I had my dream game right now, I'd give different partners different specialties so picking a partner is more than just aesthetic preference too.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:38
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I actually wouldn't have minded a series of missions where you play as different characters and let you freeroam as different characters, but it looks like we're just gonna get the usual singleplayer pack that takes about 4 minutes to complete.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:38
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The bat tank is great because you're bored of it within three minutes and then it just never stops coming up
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Jul 28, 2015 19:39
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Crappy Jack posted:I actually wouldn't have minded a series of missions where you play as different characters and let you freeroam as different characters, but it looks like we're just gonna get the usual singleplayer pack that takes about 4 minutes to complete. I, too, wouldn't have minded an incredibly robust expensive-to-create feature instead of things made with consideration of actually turning a profit.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:40
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They'd make a lot more money if they sold something actually worth buying. Cold Cold Heart shows good Batman DLC is possible, why can't they make something on that scale again?
Crashbee fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 19:53
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WB has the bad fortune of being compared to CDPR given the timing of release as well. CDPR has basically given away the Witcher 3 equivalent of all the Batman stuff for free, and their season pass is for actual giant content updates that they'll make a tidy profit from.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:55
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Arkham Knight shipped with NG+. Witcher devs had to patch it in.  Not that I disagree with the inherent point but jesus, CDPR is getting their dick sucked over a couple of skins and quests hastily put together post-development.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:56
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poptart_fairy posted:CDPR is getting their dick sucked over a couple of skins and quests hastily put together post-development. Well... that's literally what WB is charging for.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:57
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poptart_fairy posted:Arkham Knight shipped with NG+. Witcher devs had to patch it in. It's hardly dicksucking to point out that WB wold happily charge a premium for the same content.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:58
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Crashbee posted:They'd make a lot more money if they sold something actually worth buying. Cold Cold Heart shows good Batman DLC is possible, why can't they make something on that scale again?
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Jul 28, 2015 19:58
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ImpAtom posted:Well... that's literally what WB is charging for. Hence why I said I don't disagree with the point, you dope.  I dunno. It's just rankling me that half the internet is going absolutely nuts over the Witcher 3 getting stuff patched in after being shipped.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:59
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poptart_fairy posted:Hence why I said I don't disagree with the point, you dope. Who is going nuts? It's just nice that a company is offering horse armor for free while everyone else happily charges 1.99 for the privilege. It's not a high bar but CDPR is more consumer friendly than the alternative. it's the comparison that matters.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:01
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Levantine posted:Who is going nuts? Mmm, try criticizing the game and see where it gets you. But I won't ramble about that any longer.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:03
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theflyingorc posted:I, too, wouldn't have minded an incredibly robust expensive-to-create feature instead of things made with consideration of actually turning a profit. What part of that is incredibly robust and expensive? Give me the same lovely Harley missions but also let me dick around in Gotham with her instead of Batman. Harleys already been modeled and I don't need them to change Gotham. All she'd need is some sort of grappling hook, which would hardly be out of character for her to have. Sure, she couldn't glide but neither could Catwoman in AC.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:04
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Levantine posted:it's the comparison that matters.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:04
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CuwiKhons posted:What part of that is incredibly robust and expensive? Give me the same lovely Harley missions but also let me dick around in Gotham with her instead of Batman. Harleys already been modeled and I don't need them to change Gotham. All she'd need is some sort of grappling hook, which would hardly be out of character for her to have. Sure, she couldn't glide but neither could Catwoman in AC. Even Mabel on Gravity Falls has her own grappling hook.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:05
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theflyingorc posted:Not really. If a product is priced at or below what it's worth to you, you should buy it. The fact that somebody else gave it away for less (or no) money has nothing to do with that, but hoo boy do internet nerds like to pretend that a form of injustice is occurring when luxury goods are not priced exactly where they think they should be. I feel comfortable making the comparison though, so I'll continue to do so.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:06
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CuwiKhons posted:What part of that is incredibly robust and expensive? Give me the same lovely Harley missions but also let me dick around in Gotham with her instead of Batman. Harleys already been modeled and I don't need them to change Gotham. All she'd need is some sort of grappling hook, which would hardly be out of character for her to have. Sure, she couldn't glide but neither could Catwoman in AC. Catwoman in AC was not free to add as a freeroam option for Rocksteady. It's unlikely she would have been in the game if she weren't part of their used game sale prevention strategy. The things they need to do off the top of my head: Design work to deal with where each character can go/do and programmatic support of the same - for starters, not allowing Harley to be used during the FEAR GAS EVERYWHERE segment. Should Harley be able to do Watchtower missions? If not, how does their existence affect her ability to travel around. At every point in the story, what happens/does it make sense if we switch to Harley RIGHT NOW. How does Harley deal with freeroaming tanks? Etc, etc, there's a lot of work here. Any animation that is necessary for travel around the city that you didn't realize wasn't actually used in her mission New dialogue for the various groups of mooks AND dialogue for Harley when she interacts with them. If Harley collects a Riddler trophy, does he have unique dialogue? How do the various weather effects interact with her outfit? What tricks were used on the batsuit that are not applicable to an outfit like hers? How does jumping down from a great height work with Harley, since she has no ability to glide? How does grappling work without gliding? Do we rig the entire city so that every model supports alternate climbing like they did for Catwoman in AC? Without gliding, is it frustrating to move from one island to the other since you have to move straight down the bridges? There's a lot of work from every department. It's much easier to create a short, highly scripted scenario than it is to design, code, animate, voice, and test adapting a character you haven't designed from the ground up to work in the open world and making them freeroam.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:19
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theflyingorc posted:Catwoman in AC was not free to add as a freeroam option for Rocksteady. It's unlikely she would have been in the game if she weren't part of their used game sale prevention strategy. The quick answer I can think of for how Harley navigates is that in every incarnation she's lauded as a very capable gymnast. I imagine she wouldn't have a problem navigating like Catwoman, given her acrobatics in Arkham Asylum.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:24
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dscruffy1 posted:The quick answer I can think of for how Harley navigates is that in every incarnation she's lauded as a very capable gymnast. I imagine she wouldn't have a problem navigating like Catwoman, given her acrobatics in Arkham Asylum. That has goddamn nothing to the complex design work of implementing her as a usable character in freeroam. Plot considerations as to "reasons" she can do this are completed and totally unrelated to my point.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:25
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theflyingorc posted:
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Jul 28, 2015 20:29
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redbackground posted:Throw in a bit of backstory on how Harley has become good friends with Toyman (of course she would!) and he makes a bunch of cool poo poo for her. OH MY GOD IS THIS WHAT YOU PEOPLE THINK GAME DESIGN IS
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Jul 28, 2015 20:30
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Yes. You got a week, get to it.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:30
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dscruffy1 posted:The quick answer I can think of for how Harley navigates is that in every incarnation she's lauded as a very capable gymnast. I imagine she wouldn't have a problem navigating like Catwoman, given her acrobatics in Arkham Asylum. You'd then have to figure out climbing points for every surface in the game like they did in AC, which would be a significantly larger magnitude of work.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:31
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redbackground posted:Yes. You got a week, get to it. *sets HAS_A_MAGIC_HELICOPTER flag from 0 to 1* What next, boss? Need the graphics tightened on level 3?
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Jul 28, 2015 20:31
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Nah, two guys on sitting a desk got it covered.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:33
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Yeah, I have no problem with characters not being accessible in free roam. The game is built around a specific set of tools. That said, those same characters not having challenge room sucks after City and Origins.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:35
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My guess on challenge rooms is that most of their userbase doesn't care about them, because yeah, those shouldn't actually be that hard to implement (which is why we got so many in the past few games).
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Jul 28, 2015 20:38
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Yeah, the free roam portion isn't something I've really thought as being necessary. But when Catwoman was a thing in Arkham City she was fully implemented in the challenge rooms and they didn't exactly pull any punches just because she had a smaller combat repertoire. The only things you get to do with Harley Quinn is her quick set of maps and it doesn't give you a feel for everything you encounter in the game. But then I've said before that if I had one complaint above all others it's the challenge maps. They did the same thing and it worked well for three games, why ruin it now.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:40
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dscruffy1 posted:They did the same thing and it well for three games, why ruin it now. arkhamknightbatmobile.txt
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Jul 28, 2015 20:42
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Challenge maps are probably the one legitimate complaint about Arkham Knight and I have no idea why they just got totally jettisoned. Sefton Hill has been saying poo poo like "I agree!" to people who ask where all the challenge maps went so who knows though
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Jul 28, 2015 20:46
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dscruffy1 posted:But then I've said before that if I had one complaint above all others it's the challenge maps. They did the same thing and it worked well for three games, why ruin it now. (and I like them)
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Jul 28, 2015 20:46
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ayn rand hand job posted:arkhamknightbatmobile.txt I didn't mind the Batmobile. The only gripe I had with the Batmobile is I felt like Deathstroke got totally chumped in his bossfight, otherwise I felt like the escalating drone battles were a constant challenge. I liked the stealth feeling of the Cobra tanks. I didn't even mind the Arkham Knightmobile fight and I died because I clipped a wall.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:46
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theflyingorc posted:My guess on challenge rooms is that most of their userbase doesn't care about them, because yeah, those shouldn't actually be that hard to implement (which is why we got so many in the past few games). They are selling the challenge rooms as DLC. They're part of the season pass. It isn't because "people don't care about them," especially because additional challenge rooms have been DLC for the two two games as well.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:49
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ImpAtom posted:They are selling the challenge rooms as DLC. They're part of the season pass. It isn't because "people don't care about them," especially because additional challenge rooms have been DLC for the two two games as well. So are random dumb skins. The reason past games made so many challenge rooms was because they were fairly cheap to make and easy to market (when you can do PLAY AS THE JOKER or PLAY AS NIGHTWING, then people buy them, play one challenge room, and then forget why that they gave you $7) I'd be willing to put money down that more than 2/3rds of players complete 2 or less challenge rooms. Arcade-style scoring isn't a thing most people want.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:54
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