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I am imagining the world of trouble I'd get in if I lied on my charting, especially for a med error. Hell, an accident could get me fired, a deliberate lie leading to a death would probably get me stripped of my license. So "oops I lied, oh well, everyone does it look" defense isn't playing out so well. E: something that didn't reach the patient would get me a talking to, at least, and we'd be trying to figure out how to fix it so it doesn't happen again. Actually lying is just...hosed up. That is and should be a criminal offense.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:49
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Obdicut posted:Ah that actually makes sense, possibly. In that case, all that means is that she used some amount of marijuana at some point. You get a similar effect if someone used marijuana in the past but then starts losing a lot of weight. However, that means that this report is basically meaningless, and if THC levels post-mortem are meaningless why did they even do a test for it? Look at her booking video that was posted in that article. She is not loving high, she's upset and possibly crying??? This is just weird. RaySmuckles posted:Marijuana!? Good Lord, is nothing sacred? the devils weed, indeed.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:55
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Pohl posted:Look at her booking video that was posted in that article. You can smoke weed and also be upset and cry. But that's not the point. The point is that if a post-mortem test of THC doesn't tell us anything useful, then why do one?
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Jul 29, 2015 03:05
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Dirk the Average posted:Edit: To be clear here, I'm not even holding them to a higher standard; I'm holding them to the same standards that I'm held to. I think it's clear that cops aren't expected to adhere to the same standards as other professionals in most people's minds. If you sassed a doctor and he responded by murdering you on the operating table, you wouldn't see anyone lining up to go "well it sure wasn't smart to sass a doctor, they're only human too, expect to get your life wrecked if you do that, black people"
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Jul 29, 2015 03:17
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Obdicut posted:You can smoke weed and also be upset and cry. Oh yeah, I was just pointing out something I noticed, not challenging or questioning you. And the test is probably standard, what is weird is that it came back the way it did and created more questions than answers. Unless you just say: "oh, she was a pothead and therefore a menace to society." I guess a lot of people believe that crap and quit thinking right there, because it is easy and doesn't require extra effort.
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Jul 29, 2015 03:24
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Ravenfood posted:I am imagining the world of trouble I'd get in if I lied on my charting, especially for a med error. Hell, an accident could get me fired, a deliberate lie leading to a death would probably get me stripped of my license. So "oops I lied, oh well, everyone does it look" defense isn't playing out so well. poo poo, my job is nowhere near as important as medical. I work in the safety and training industry, but I can't make any kind of little white lie that can actually cause damage (like someone getting a certification card they weren't supposed to have and wrecking a building with their crane). Even then, if I were to point blank lie to the boss or be caught falsifying any paperwork I would be gone. Not subject to criminal charges, but I would no longer be working there ever again.
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Jul 29, 2015 03:27
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Dead Reckoning posted:Anyone who says they'd write up their own mother and father for a DUI not involving another vehicle is kind of a douche, TBQH. when else is it acceptable for a cop to refuse to do their job and cover up crimes due to personal relationships?
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Jul 29, 2015 04:41
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Dead Reckoning posted:Anyone who says they'd write up their own mother and father for a DUI not involving another vehicle is kind of a douche, TBQH. I feel like a hiring policy which officially excludes applicants who would process other officers for their crimes is absolutely unacceptable, and IMO everyone involved needs to be demoted or fired.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:42
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I can't believe there are people arguing that lying in an official police report shouldn't be a fireable offense. If I lied to a police officer when talking in person, that's a crime (potentially a felony) and I could be arrested for it. But somehow its ok if police lie in official reports, because well, everyone does it?
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Jul 29, 2015 04:55
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Probably along the same lines of binge drinkers overestimating how much alcohol other people imbibe, or rapists thinking everyone else secretly also behaves that way.
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Jul 29, 2015 05:03
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Trabisnikof posted:I can't believe there are people arguing that lying in an official police report shouldn't be a fireable offense.
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Jul 29, 2015 05:32
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Do you really want a doctor who wouldn't steal your pain medicine in order to give it to his own mother to support her habit? It's his own mother, I guess you want doctors to be inhuman monsters. If a doctor isn't willing to steal my kidneys and cover it up to save his sister's life, then I don't want him anywhere near me.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:08
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Really I check to make sure the whole hospital has a history of criminal behavior and doctors covering up each other's and their families' crimes, it's how I know they care for their fellow man.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:11
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It's sort of like that only you want your doctor to cover up when other doctors steal your kidneys because you don't want to disturb that beautiful fraternity.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:17
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Your wife died in horrible pain because
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Jul 29, 2015 06:24
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If I gave my parents special treatment on an issue like this they'd be loving disappointed in me when they realize what has happened the next morning. That's because they're good people and not immoral shitheads.
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Jul 29, 2015 09:25
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VitalSigns posted:Your wife died in horrible pain because What if your mom was black though, you'd be cool with anything up to murder then, right? VitalSigns posted:I think it's clear that cops aren't expected to adhere to the same standards as other professionals in most people's minds. If I went in for a routine procedure, a wart removal or something and halfway through started jiggling around, talking poo poo, and generally being a pain in the rear end I'd expect them to start performing worse yeah, because I'm aware that other people have feelings and are not robots and react negatively to being treated poorly/verbally abused no matter how professional they are.
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Jul 29, 2015 11:27
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semper wifi posted:What if your mom was black though, you'd be cool with anything up to murder then, right? Maybe, if he was a cop.
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Jul 29, 2015 11:34
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semper wifi posted:
That's a horrible comparison. The better comparison is going to the ER. And ER docs have to deal with drunk, belligerent, schizophrenic, abusive, and just plain rude patients all the time. And by and large they don't let it impact their care of the person because they're professionals who have a responsibility to care for people even if those people are shitheads. Sure, they have feelings, but as adults and professionals, they care a lot more about doing their job, adhering to the ethics of their profession, than they do about their fee-fees getting hurt. Why is it different for cops? Edit: Like, the doctor might say something snappy, or he might write a rude thing on the chart, or he might complain about it to the nurse, but he's not going to sign the guy up for an unnecessary enema or not give him the drug he needs in order to just gently caress with him because the guy was mean to him. Doing that will get you sanctioned very quickly. semper wifi posted:What if your mom was black though, you'd be cool with anything up to murder then, right? No? What a weird thing to say. Why do you believe that? Obdicut fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 11:57
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semper wifi posted:If I went in for a routine procedure, a wart removal or something and halfway through started jiggling around, talking poo poo, and generally being a pain in the rear end I'd expect them to start performing worse yeah, because I'm aware that other people have feelings and are not robots and react negatively to being treated poorly/verbally abused no matter how professional they are. treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 12:08
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semper wifi posted:What if your mom was black though, you'd be cool with anything up to murder then, right? I think the problem is that police aren't performing worse, they're loving killing people you huge moron
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Jul 29, 2015 12:12
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It's like Spider-Man's motto, with great power comes less responsibility.
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Jul 29, 2015 13:09
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I thought saying people angry that police let one of their fellow co-workers murder a woman as sociopaths because they didn't understand how humans don't want to hurt their friends was fairly obscene but straight up saying that letting your friends and family get away with crimes as some kind of job perk is pretty  . If the laws are that poo poo that you can let some people straight up ignore them why do we care about enforcing them at all?
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Jul 29, 2015 13:19
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Radish posted:I thought saying people angry that police let one of their fellow co-workers murder a woman as sociopaths because they didn't understand how humans don't want to hurt their friends was fairly obscene but straight up saying that letting your friends and family get away with crimes as some kind of job perk is pretty Hey it's a hard job with poo poo pay that is super dangerous that they were conscripted into so the had no choice farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt
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Jul 29, 2015 13:37
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Does anyone have a more in depth better article than DailyKOS on the Cincinnati Body Cam Shooting that they're refusing to release? Supposedly the report states that the Officer was dragged by his vehicle and then literally from all accounts blew the guys face off.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:35
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What's with these black women dying in jails and making the police look bad? http://www.lohud.com/story/news/2015/07/28/woman-dies-mount-vernon-holding-cell/30773979/ quote:Herman Turner said he sat in court all day Monday until about 4 p.m. waiting for his wife's arraignment. edit: Left out the interesting part: quote:State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has sent investigators from his new team tasked with probing police-involved deaths to Westchester County, spokesman Eric Soufer said. The case is one of the first Schneiderman’s office has examined since Gov. Andrew Cuomo named him special prosecutor earlier this month, granting him the power to investigate and — if necessary — prosecute police officers involved in the death of an unarmed civilian. DARPA fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 14:47
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DARPA posted:What's with these black women dying in jails and making the police look bad? Its a combo of people in law enforcement using low hanging fruit to charge people that don't walk/talk/act like them with bullshit/out-right lie and look the other way if they are "one of them". Heck this thread is a pretty good example of it ("Did they use a SAMHSA Certed Lab?" *Person claiming to practice law lies and says they did* "I'd let mommy and daddy drive drunk because they are my family!" *From a guy who rabidly protects police interest). It's also why you need to discipline the people who do it. You can implement any rule you like but if you have nothing but chucklefucks who will ignore enforcing the rules then there is no point in making them. It's also why people like that are big on "policy" change instead of holding the actual person responsible. If they are the gate keepers on the policy enforcement they can keep the same retards without doing a thing and when you call them on it they go "we put in the rules you asked..and shucks darn they ain't workin". The reality is that place like Healthcare and the FAA/DOT as well as myriads maintain a safe level of integrity and weed out people who don't. It's about time we asked that law enforcement & those who support it be held to the same standard.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:16
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Yeah when people in law enforcement ignore rules and laws, saying "well we need to just patch up some holes in the system" really isn't very comforting. This country has a huge boner for authoritarianism and massively punishing people that commit the slightest of transgressions but suddenly when authority figures themselves do it, we need to be extra careful and lenient since they are only human after all. Whoever said there needs to be a license to be a LEO was spot on. Get that revoked and you never work as a cop again.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:22
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Hollismason posted:Does anyone have a more in depth better article than DailyKOS on the Cincinnati Body Cam Shooting that they're refusing to release? I think Fried Chicken had a post in the monthly US Pol thread about it. Apparently they are extremely protective about this video coming out and have told a few news organizations to pound sand when they filed lawsuits against the police department for not responding to FOIA requests. E: Since I have nothing better to do: Fried Chicken posted:So last week Sam Dubose was killed by a University of Cincinnati cop at a routine traffic stop. He was pulled over for not having a front license plate (something legal in neighboring states) and ended with his face literally blown off. Campus police officer Ray Tensing was wearing a body cam at the time. Phone fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 15:43
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Radish posted:Whoever said there needs to be a license to be a LEO was spot on. Get that revoked and you never work as a cop again. This will happen and the punchline will be that the license is issued on a per-county basis and valid for that county only.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:55
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Gaddamn monkey's paw got me again.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:57
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Phone posted:I think Fried Chicken had a post in the monthly US Pol thread about it. Apparently they are extremely protective about this video coming out and have told a few news organizations to pound sand when they filed lawsuits against the police department for not responding to FOIA requests. Oh boy article posted:10:50 a.m. UPDATE: Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters will release Officer Ray Tensing's body camera video of the fatal shooting at noon Thursday. http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/07/29/prosecutor-discuss-dubose-shooting-today/30822025/
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Jul 29, 2015 15:58
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http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/20/sgt_james_brown_26_survived_twoquote:Newly released video has revealed the dying moments of an African-American active-duty soldier who checked himself into the El Paso, Texas, county jail for a two-day sentence for driving under the influence, and died while in custody in 2012. Authorities claimed Sgt. James Brown died due to a pre-existing medical condition, but shocking new video from inside the jail raises new questions about what happened. The video shows guards swarming on top of him as he repeatedly says he can’t breathe and appears not to resist. By the end of the video, he is shown naked, not blinking or responding, his breathing shallow. Attorneys say an ambulance was never called. Brown was eventually brought to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead. His family had long suspected foul play in his death but received little information from authorities. They’ve now filed a lawsuit against El Paso County saying his constitutional rights were violated. Support Our Troops! 
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Jul 29, 2015 16:00
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Phone posted:I think Fried Chicken had a post in the monthly US Pol thread about it. Apparently they are extremely protective about this video coming out and have told a few news organizations to pound sand when they filed lawsuits against the police department for not responding to FOIA requests. I see it is being released; however, has the DA announced his charging decision yet? I know DAs do it all the time, but the defense attorney in me hates it. And it does make it very hard for both sides to find a fair jury (and gives him some toehold on appeal). nm fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 16:04
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Obdicut posted:That's a horrible comparison. Any time a service is being provided person to person, there's going to be variability in quality. It doesn't matter what profession is involved. If you start poo poo with the person providing your service, the quality of that service is going to suffer. I'm not saying it's necessarily intentional, but consider the chances of a doctor noticing a suspicious mole on the face of a belligerent drunk vs. a normal patient. Stories of people not getting painkillers or having their complaints about pain dismissed because they're suspected of drug seeking are a dime a dozen too, if you're wanting examples of more obvious "variability". quote:No? What a weird thing to say. Why do you believe that? I just like to give that guy a hard time about his aiding and abetting what was essentially a murder (with a bonus attempted murder thrown in) because the potential beneficiary was black and poor. tentative8e8op posted:A doctor who purposely and needlessly harms their patient should not at all be a doctor, do you really not think so? Obviously not what I meant semper wifi fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 16:20
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semper wifi posted:Any time a service is being provided person to person, there's going to be variability in quality. Giving people a traffic ticket is not providing them a service, and cops are (or should be) expected to competently deal with people who are less than delighted that they have to pay a fine. If they can't act professionally and respectfully even when someone is (understandably) upset or irate, they don't deserve to hold their loving job.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:27
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Obdicut posted:That's a horrible comparison. My dad used to work in a trauma center, and he said patients would attack them and spit in their faces and stuff all the time. Regarding the "is it okay to lie sometimes on official documents" topic, I think Dead Reckoning may have revealed a bit more about his perspective than he intended in that exchange. VitalSigns posted:If you sassed a doctor and he responded by murdering you on the operating table, you wouldn't see anyone lining up to go "well it sure wasn't smart to sass a doctor, they're only human too, expect to get your life wrecked if you do that, black people" ...actually I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be completely fine with that. There are many people who would think "well it was super stupid for that person to have been an rear end in a top hat to the person holding their life in their hands! Maybe they should have been more polite to the doctor!" I'm not joking in the least. There are many, many people who think that there is nothing wrong with stupidity (or at least the appearance of stupidity) resulting in "punishments" as bad as death. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 16:30
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Useful Distraction posted:Giving people a traffic ticket is not providing them a service, and cops are (or should be) expected to competently deal with people who are less than delighted that they have to pay a fine. If they can't act professionally and respectfully even when someone is (understandably) upset or irate, they don't deserve to hold their loving job. I agree, but the cop in the current incident was basically a dick at worst, in need of some sensitivity training or something. Ytlaya posted:...actually I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be completely fine with that. There are many people who would think "well it was super stupid for that person to have been an rear end in a top hat to the person holding their life in their hands! Maybe they should have been more polite to the doctor!" You know for a guy hyper-focused on forgiveness, love and kumbaya poo poo you sure do spend a suspiciously large amount of your posting time pontificating about how anyone who feels actions should have consequences is dumb and bad.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:35
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semper wifi posted:I agree, but the cop in the current incident was basically a dick at worst, in need of some sensitivity training or something. Uh, which incident? Surely you aren't referring to the one where the out of uniform cop aggressively approached the guy threatening to murder him several times?
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Jul 29, 2015 16:49
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semper wifi posted:Any time a service is being provided person to person, there's going to be variability in quality. It doesn't matter what profession is involved. If you start poo poo with the person providing your service, the quality of that service is going to suffer. I'm not saying it's necessarily intentional, but consider the chances of a doctor noticing a suspicious mole on the face of a belligerent drunk vs. a normal patient. Stories of people not getting painkillers or having their complaints about pain dismissed because they're suspected of drug seeking are a dime a dozen too, if you're wanting examples of more obvious "variability". This is a terrible analogy. Again: The equivalent would be a doctor prescribed an unnecessary test. withholding painkillers from someone they thought was in real pain for no medical reason would come close--this is lovely behavior, but withholding drugs from people you actually think are just drug-seeking is not. ER docs have to put up with drunk, belligerent, assholic patients all the time, and they do so while giving them standard of care and not enacting petty power trips. A doctor who actually was loving with patients would be a gigantic liability risk. One who delivered substandard care to patients because of personal affront would be called on the carpet. You are trying to hold cops to a lower standard than a barista is held to. quote:I just like to give that guy a hard time about his aiding and abetting what was essentially a murder (with a bonus attempted murder thrown in) because the potential beneficiary was black and poor. What the gently caress are you talking about?
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Jul 29, 2015 17:01
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