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Idea for the imprisoned devil: he'll make the party a straightforward offer. "Free me, and I'll be indebted to you. You may call upon me once, and I'll solve a problem for you to the best of my ability." The twist being, if they summon him and he can't help, they'll have wasted their one chance. He'll gladly return if they summon him again for something else; of course, by Hell law, that means they now owe him. You didn't know that? Oh dear. How inconvenient for you. Or if he can help, the way he helps is out of the party's hands, and he has none of those pesky "moral obligations". Whatever method he solves their current problem by will almost certainly cause a larger problem down the line. Obviously, he'll be ready to help with that as well, this time for a price. Obviously the smart thing is to never call upon him. Hard to do when he's always around the corner, whispering "I would be able to handle this easily. Just saying."
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Jul 23, 2015 13:01
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Just do somethig similar to Asimov's Azazel. When summoned, the devil grants them their wish to the best of his ability. He's not particularly concerned in tripping them up on technicalities (HAHA YOU FORGOT TO ASK FOR AIR INSIDE IT), like these kind of stories tend to go - a debt is a debt, and the guy's professional about it. Just get poo poo done and get it over with as soon as possible. It's just that every wish gets twisted, has unforeseen consequences that end up in someone suffering, that end up bringing out one's worst from somehow. It's just how universe works and the dude couldn't help it even if he gave a poo poo. Make it a tempting get out of jail card that is guaranteed to backfire eventually.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:29
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That's the idea, just without so much literary familiarity on my part.  Whybird posted:With this in place, the antagonist will know what the party's strengths and weaknesses are, and will have tactics planned to counter them. Without it, they are able to take him by surprise, getting an automatic ambush in on him.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:35
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Personally I'd go with something which can visibly happen if the players succeed, rather than making the reward for their efforts be 'a thing doesn't happen'. Hence he gets the drop on you / you get the drop on him. Maybe if he doesn't know they're coming, he doesn't have his magic items to hand, but they're close by - so during the fight the players can try to get to them before he does?
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Jul 24, 2015 08:13
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Whybird posted:Personally I'd go with something which can visibly happen if the players succeed, rather than making the reward for their efforts be 'a thing doesn't happen'. Hence he gets the drop on you / you get the drop on him. Maybe do a thing where, if they've broken all the sigils, when they arrive at his actual chamber he's doing like a little supervillain flipout, the wizard equivalent of pounding on the control panel and screaming, "WHY ISN'T IT WORKING?!"
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Jul 24, 2015 12:58
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Shaking a crystal ball that's showing static, alchemistic beakers bubbling over, ouija board spelling ERROR ERROR ERROR...
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Jul 24, 2015 18:20
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I've been playing for about 7-8 months now and in a few weeks will try my hand at GMing D&D 5e for the first time. Any tips or common pitfalls a novice GM ought watch out for?
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Jul 24, 2015 18:54
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Soylent Pudding posted:I've been playing for about 7-8 months now and in a few weeks will try my hand at GMing D&D 5e for the first time. Any tips or common pitfalls a novice GM ought watch out for? Avoid planning too many details ahead. This is my most common pitfall- I come up with all these cool scenes that seem amazing when they pop into my head in the shower, and then the plan makes contact with the PCs and I'm left ad-libbing something else. You'll have a much smoother time of it if you're ad-libbing almost everything, than if you plan a bunch of stuff that never happens. Pretty much draw a map of the main encounter area(s), come up with some major players, maybe a broad-strokes timeline of what sort of plot things are going to happen over time, and just use that stuff as your jumping off point.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:02
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In no particular order, and some of this is somewhat generic: * Remember to hand out Inspiration * Resist the temptation to make any action take more than one skill check at a time. Making an acrobatic leap off a chandelier should take one DEX check, not three. Only use multiple checks if you're breaking it up into a "skill challenge" and you won't force the player to commit to multiple checks right away. In either case, try to reward partial success and/or near misses. * Averaged damage can be faster than rolling for it, but check with the rest of the table on how it's being done if this is an in-progress game. * If you have a puzzle/problem and the players come up with a solution, consider taking their suspected solution and making it the true-and-correct one. This doesn't mean they automatically solve it, since they still have to succeed at the actual implementation of the steps, but it does mean they can start working on it immediately (and they'll feel clever for having figured it out) * There should generally be one monster per character to keep combat moderately challenging. If there's a boss fight to be fought, consider either throwing in "minions" or letting the boss act on multiple initiative counts.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:33
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Soylent Pudding posted:I've been playing for about 7-8 months now and in a few weeks will try my hand at GMing D&D 5e for the first time. Any tips or common pitfalls a novice GM ought watch out for? I'd probably say GMing 5e is your first mistake :v Joking aside, I second the above. Overplanning is a big deal for me, as you can end up thinking about a few possible courses of action your players take, and the consequences of that to the nth degree, which your players will completely bypass and that's all your hours of work down the toilet, which can be frustrating. And you're there to have fun, not be frustrated. Learn to have vague outlines and prepare to improv. Couple of basics. Don't stonewall the players. Unless it's something utterly out of tone, like is there to play a gritty crime drama and one of the players' ideas to catch a criminal is to turn Super Saiyan and Kamehameha his hideout, try and take a "yes and" approach to players' ideas. Say yes or roll the dice. If a player wants to do something, and there is no interesting consequence of failure, just let them do it. Don't ever make a player roll when the only result is nothing happens. If they fail breaking into a building, they shouldn't just not get in, that's boring. Set off the alarms, have them lose time, make them break down the door so their trespass is obvious.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:33
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deadly_pudding posted:Maybe do a thing where, if they've broken all the sigils, when they arrive at his actual chamber he's doing like a little supervillain flipout, the wizard equivalent of pounding on the control panel and screaming, "WHY ISN'T IT WORKING?!" The sigil which stops his own spells from harming him was pretty much intended so that he can hit the PCs with a big opener and then flail about on fire when it unexpectedly tags him too.
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Jul 24, 2015 22:56
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I can see that. Maybe for each PC he misses, he gets an attack bonus against himself. I mixed the ideas so far and here's what I got. I want to give the mage's society a more sinister bend, so their three principles are: 1. Master the Arcane 2. Sacrifice to Darkness 3. Be Lord over your Subjects (And as an aside, I'm thinking the necromancer they're after in the main plot may well be an alumnus of this school...) Master the Arcane is the imprisoned devil. Got that. Sacrifice to Darkness is the one with the other adventurers. The idea is, if the party doesn't help them, they themselves will have sacrificed innocents for their own gain, because if they free them they'll have to deal with them as competition. Be Lord over your Subjects - I'm going with the homunculi lab because in the end I'd like to run a combat encounter with endless enemy spawns. Partly as a test run to see if that's a thing my group handles well, partly because now that I've come up with them, I really want to slot those homunculi somewhere in there.Arcane seal does the thing with the out of control spell, Subjects seal makes some of his allies defect, Darkness seal... I'm getting to that, but I like the decoy idea so maybe there's some shadow magic going on with those. e: running into pacing problems. I might actually just have the third seal in with the mage himself so the party can break it during the fight. Always good to have additional goals in combat. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 11:10
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Thanks everyone for the advice. My first campaign is going to be a hopefully straightforward go into the dungeon and get the artifact sort of affair. Does anyone have suggestions for clever traps and puzzles for the group to solve? I've been poking around online but a lot of suggestions really seem to have a "and then the entire party dies, wasn't that hillarious?" sort of vibe to them.
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Jul 26, 2015 22:15
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Traps and puzzles should never gate the progress of the adventure and should always be interesting to interact with. That means that if the players need to go past the puzzle (say, a complicated locked door), then failing to solve the puzzle should hurt them in some way (hit points, resources, give the bad guy time to prepare more) but should never be "welp, we can't open this door, time to go home". Making stuff that's interesting to interact with is going to be really dependent on your group. The way I like to do it is to have relatively simple puzzles (like sliding tile puzzles or simple lever combination puzzles) that have to be solved during combat. Pick something that takes a number of "moves" around the length of your standard fight, and describe it so that only one "move" can be made each round. Don't make people give up their fighting action to make a puzzle move, but do require them to be adjacent to the puzzle. Variations on that are waves of enemies that keep spawning (or being summoned, or whatever) until the puzzle is solved, or a puzzle that does a small amount of damage for each "wrong" move (and try to set it up so that making a wrong move might be an advantage in combat, since it hurts everyone in the room or in x distance). I like having physical representations of a puzzle for the players to interact with. Traps are a bit different. I don't really like to use the kind of traps that are hidden and then you stumble into them and get hurt or die because I find that leads to the group pixelbitching every room. Instead, I'd use "traps" to spice up combats. Here's some stuff to use during combat: A magical armoured crossbow turret that shoots at its nearest opponent until you cross the room and flick the switch. It doesn't shoot at friendlies. There might be other ways to disable it, let the players come up with something. Hastily covered pit traps all around the room. They're obvious, but there's only a 50% chance you'll fall into one if you try to cross it. The opponents, on the other hand, are much heavier than you and fall in every time. Combine this with the first one to make it a risk/reward choice to cross pits to reach the switch. The pits cause some token amount of damage and take a round to climb out of. Maybe you can fire arrows or whatever up at anything adjacent. PIllars with scything blades that hit anyone (friend or foe) ending their turn adjacent. Pillars or walls with shooting arrows that hit anyone ending their turn directly in a line with them. A saarlac pit or portal or similar where anyone (friend or foe) ending their turn too close to it gets grabbed (held in place) and then gradually gets pulled towards it unless they spend a round cutting tentacles (or resisting the arcane mind control mist or whatever). Again, there should be a risk/reward choice, so it always takes a few rounds to pull you in and you might want to continue attacking the other baddies instead of getting loose. It shouldn't be luck (eg, a save) or damage (eg, tentacles have hitpoints) to get out if you don't want someone to roll 4 1s in a row and die. I'd use "use your attack action and it releases you" and also "a friend can do the same for you". As a personal and group preference, I would make all these things explicitly obvious. So I'd tell the group "There are pillars in the room with slits around ankle height, and scrape marks on the floor all around them. Looks like blades shoot out if you stand too close". That's going to be a preference thing though. e: In case it wasn't clear, when a player asks "can I try to kick/push/trip/shove the bad guy into the pit/fire/spike/tentacles?" the answer is always yes. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 00:53
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I'm fond of things that get solved no matter what the players do. Like, the first half-logical thing they try works. Also interesting if the hint given is something impossible, like opening a bell. Like the PCs come into a room with four statues. One holds a book, the second a sword, the third a harp, and the fourth a banana. Each also has a two-position lever. The party smarty/an interrogated bad guy/an inscription says "To open the way, seek balance." Whatever they do works. If they pull the sword and book because strength must be tempered with wisdom, the door opens. If they pull the sword alone because swords need to be well-balanced, the door opens. If they pick either of the other two and say something about scales, the door opens. Whatever.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:29
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Dareon posted:I'm fond of things that get solved no matter what the players do. Like, the first half-logical thing they try works. Also interesting if the hint given is something impossible, like opening a bell. This is good advice, with the caveat that if you make a habit of it, your players will catch on and stop paying attention to your tests. So every so often you have to unilaterally decide that the second thing they try will work, just to keep them on their toes.
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Jul 27, 2015 02:13
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Traps are best when they're adding to an existing combat, rather than just being a thing in and of themselves. That said... The players enter a room with a single lever, a single exit (barred by a portcullis), and an sand timer. When they pull the lever, a portcullis drops down to cover the door they came in by and the timer turns, sand starting to run out. (Use an actual sand timer if you have one.) If they pull the lever again, the timer turns again, but neither gate opens. The solution? Wait for the sand to run out.
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Jul 27, 2015 08:12
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What's the best place to get pre painted minis for simple rpg campaigns? Just looking for basic ones for heroes in a fantasy or shadowrun like campaign depending on what my players decide on. I see that there are dnd minis, but they seem to be random in booster packs? I'd rather not go on eBay unless I absolutely have to. Jarvisi fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 12:55
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Also keep in mind that no matter what you do, any puzzle can potentially become a game-derailing tangent if your players are sufficiently  Having just watched the Cube films and found inspiration, I once made a simple trapped hallway that was also a puzzle: each trapped square started in a state that was either safe, inflicted 1d6 damage, or inflicted 2d6 damage, and would cycle from safe-to-1d6-to-safe-to-2d6-to-safe-to-1d6, etc., each time it was cycled and irrespective of elapsed time or anything involving the other squares. The party hit on the idea of using dropped or thrown items to cross the hallway unscathed, for which I was willing to just let the wizard make an Intelligence check to navigate. What happened instead was three hours, dozens of hit points, and a dozen pages of grid paper filled with algebra equations and graphs as the druid and the fighter players tried to work out what the pattern was from what they saw. We were in a college dormitory lounge in the middle of the night on a games marathon with other things to do while Player 1 and Player 2 battled for the crown of Sperg Prime, but to this day it's a hilarious and silly story that everyone involved thinks should have probably been better solved by just sprinting through the hallway and taking some random amount of damage rather than break out math at like 2 AM.
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Jul 27, 2015 13:23
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:What's the best place to get pre painted minis for simple rpg campaigns? Just looking for basic ones for heroes in a fantasy or shadowrun like campaign depending on what my players decide on. There should be something in a game store, but you can also use legos if it won't kill the tone.
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Jul 27, 2015 14:08
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Whybird posted:Traps are best when they're adding to an existing combat, rather than just being a thing in and of themselves. Holy poo poo, my older brother pulled that one on me ages ago (15+ years?) and I had nearly forgotten until now. We spent fifteen minutes freaking out in that room, assuming the timer would lead to our messy deaths. Thanks for the nostalgia bomb.
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Jul 27, 2015 14:32
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Plan the past not the future you don't have to adlib things that already happen, and you can use the pregenned history yo make more believable encounterals. It also helps your adlibbing if you write down important npcs and give them 3 traits
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Jul 27, 2015 18:57
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Dareon posted:I'm fond of things that get solved no matter what the players do. Like, the first half-logical thing they try works. Also interesting if the hint given is something impossible, like opening a bell. I actually really hate this methodology due to the fact it's taking don't build cages to hyperbole. If you didn't give enough foreshadowing or history to allow them to figure it out after 10-15 minutes of trying then yes let a solution work. I usually conceive of 2-3 acceptable means to get players out of trouble in my puzzles otherwise alter it during my pre game design. I've also just not let them through and they go back to town and give them more hints through the interactions with townspeople. Part of what makes a puzzle fun is feeling like you got the solution through the struggle, the aha! moment.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:53
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c0ldfuse posted:I actually really hate this methodology due to the fact it's taking don't build cages to hyperbole. I think it depends on the group. I, personally love figuring out the puzzle and like to have an actual solution that I can determine, but when I DM, I only have one other person I game with who is like that and the rest just get bored and restless if they fail. Since he hasn't been able to make it in a while, I've just stopped using puzzles since this was with me giving them like basic tower of hanoi level poo poo, it just isn't worth the hassle. Maybe "anything goes" is the way to go.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:08
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My biggest issue with puzzles that have specific solutions in RPGs is that you aren't testing the characters anymore. When combat or some series of skill checks happens, the players are making their choices but success is based on the character's ability to carry out that decision. When you introduce a puzzle with an answer more specific than "let the players make some smarty-pants rolls and move on" then the character's abilities stop mattering until you move on to the next challenge. A supergenius character shouldn't get stymied at the sphinx's riddle just because the player somehow hasn't heard it. Stuff like intelligence rolls to get hints helps, but it also just makes me go back to the idea that a successful brains roll should just solve it, the same way a climbing roll solves a wall.
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Jul 28, 2015 20:34
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Lynx Winters posted:My biggest issue with puzzles that have specific solutions in RPGs is that you aren't testing the characters anymore. When combat or some series of skill checks happens, the players are making their choices but success is based on the character's ability to carry out that decision. When you introduce a puzzle with an answer more specific than "let the players make some smarty-pants rolls and move on" then the character's abilities stop mattering until you move on to the next challenge. A supergenius character shouldn't get stymied at the sphinx's riddle just because the player somehow hasn't heard it. Stuff like intelligence rolls to get hints helps, but it also just makes me go back to the idea that a successful brains roll should just solve it, the same way a climbing roll solves a wall. This is where I really like how games like FATE handle the issue. The player still has to describe how their character solves the problem, but the die roll determines whether that method actually worked. If the die roll was successful, then that way of solving the problem was the correct way! Otherwise, somebody else gets to take a crack at it.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:12
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I think it depends on what the role of puzzles are meant to be in your game. If they're just an obstacle in the same way that 'cliff face' or 'orc' is an obstacle than by all means, knowledge check solves it. I know in the past that degree of narrative transparency has disheartened and stymied my players more than just giving them an actual puzzle to solve. If you have two rolls - one climbing, one riddling - and in both cases the consequence for failure are death (falling) or death (Sphinx eats you), then you've abstracted the game to the point where there is no longer any distinction between challenges beyond the fiction layer. That's not bad. You can run a game like that and have it be awesome. But it's sort of important to know if that's something your players are into before you make assumptions about it. Two of my players came to me and expressed that they felt as though the game had been reduced to "An <Obstacle> appears! <Character-specialist> rolls against <obstacle> or else <stakes>!" To a degree I think that literally describes every story but their point was that they wanted mechanical differentiation in how those things were solved in addition to the in-world distinctions between them.
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Jul 28, 2015 21:26
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Need some system advice. I'm in the process of setting up a work D&D group. I'm most familiar with 4th Edition, and those are the book I have. Thing is all my players are complete RPG virgins and I'm starting to think 4th may be a bit too complex. Last thing I want to do is turn them off gaming entirely with a big mess of power cards and a billion feat options. Should I look into 5th edition? Or even go backwards to AD&D?
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Jul 29, 2015 02:29
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If you insist on d20-based fantasy, 13th Age.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:58
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Can anyone give me a rundown on 13th Age vs. Dungeon World?
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Jul 29, 2015 03:59
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Super Waffle posted:Need some system advice. I'm in the process of setting up a work D&D group. I'm most familiar with 4th Edition, and those are the book I have. Thing is all my players are complete RPG virgins and I'm starting to think 4th may be a bit too complex. Last thing I want to do is turn them off gaming entirely with a big mess of power cards and a billion feat options. Should I look into 5th edition? Or even go backwards to AD&D? Generally, the 4e Essentials books are actually pretty easy to understand for newbies, doubly so if you're willing to walk them through the process of character creation. At first level, it's pretty easy to understand that everyone gets two At-Wills, one Encounter, and a Daily. If you go to the effort of getting a couple recommended feats to reduce analysis paralysis, it's even easier. The more you help them, the better time they should have with it.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:00
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Super Waffle posted:Can anyone give me a rundown on 13th Age vs. Dungeon World? I haven't had the chance to run 13th Age but my super casual friends all loved Dungeon World when I showed it to them. It's a good system if you're looking to avoid overwhelming your players. I figured it would be a good fit for my group in particular because most of my players usually zone out when it comes to crunch but they love to role play and tell stories. Character creation takes like 5 minutes, it's easy to throw a campaign together, and the system keeps things interesting by relying on a lot of improvisation. Two of my players from that group started immediately DMing Dungeon World games with their newbie friends too.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:21
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If you give 4th Edition a straight read-through you'll find that it's actually one of the easiest editions to learn/understand, because it's written like a process document with a frank tone. You only think you have a lot of powers at level 1, but really it's 2 At-Wills (out of a selection of 4), 1 Encounter (out of a selection of 4) and 1 Daily (out of a selection of 3), and then you're only adding one more power every level. Feat taxes also don't come into play until late Heroic or later, so you can just deal with those when it happens. If you can find some way to deal with feat selection, which may boil down to picking them yourself after working with the player on what they want to accomplish (which, again, you don't have to do until they're more familiar and comfortable with playing), I wouldn't consider 4e to be overwhelming at all. I've run the Keep on the Borderlands adventure for first-time players and it went well, my only change was ensuring the monsters were abiding by the errata'd monster math.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:47
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You don't have to give players all the options from all the books and supplements and Dragon magazines of years of 4th edition runtime at once. PHB 1/2 only should give you a managable amount of options, perfectly playable characters, and if people take to it you can still say "hey there's a bunch of extra options, feel free to take a look and retrain some stuff" one or two levels down the line.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:57
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Super Waffle posted:Can anyone give me a rundown on 13th Age vs. Dungeon World? 13th Age plays like post 3rd edition D&D "light" with some cool house rules, Dungeon World is straight-up rules light and more story focused by way of turn-based plot. I'd say if your players like fantasy books and/or movies, go with Dungeon World. If they're more into video games, go with 13th Age.
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Jul 29, 2015 07:53
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It's not 4e, but I found that people exposed to video game rpgs could pick up Gamma World quickly. If the word hitpoint means nothing to you, maybe not so much. Most all rpg books are horrible at teaching people to rpg. The only reason my wife picked up D&D quickly was because she watched her dad play Final Fantasy 1. Otherwise, "you level up, spells have levels, and you have to sleep for them" is so arbitrary and dumb that it is frustrating and hard to remember. It is kind of random advice, but as a DM you will teach many people how to play whatever it is you are playing.
Babylon Astronaut fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 08:20
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It depends a lot on what your friends want. Are they interested in the boardgamey dungeon-crawl side, or in roleplaying and storytelling? Both are ok, but knowing your audience is the first step to pleasing your audience. For the latter I'd advise Dungeon World. For the former, you could try Strike!, which is set up to be 4e minus the rule bloat. Or, as others have advised, you could cut out the most intimidating bit of 4e and run chargen for your players: spend the first session doing world-building and brainstorming characters, and then go away and build the characters based on your players' guidance. One thing I've found that works well in this situation is to give players multiple-choice questions on character design. Rather that. 'Which of these 500 feats, most of which suck, do you want?' go with 'Would you like a bigger blast on your dragonspawn's breath or the ability for it to heal your allies?'
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Jul 29, 2015 11:15
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Keep in mind that for people who want a storygame pretty much any game system can work, since a mindful GM will just dispense with whatever gamey mechanics are disliked. This can be a pretty big deal in game systems that come with their own presumed fluff, and seems (to me) a lot cleaner than to import fluff into an entirely different system that has more tolerable mechanics.
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Jul 29, 2015 11:33
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Nietzschean posted:Keep in mind that for people who want a storygame pretty much any game system can work, since a mindful GM will just dispense with whatever gamey mechanics are disliked. This can be a pretty big deal in game systems that come with their own presumed fluff, and seems (to me) a lot cleaner than to import fluff into an entirely different system that has more tolerable mechanics. I really don't agree with this: the system is there to support the kind of game you're trying to play, and it's just as important to a storygame as it is to one focused on OC challenges. They both demand very different kinds of system, with a storygame's being focused on narrative events instead of physical ones, but that doesn't mean that storygaming is about ignoring the system when it's convenient.
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Jul 29, 2015 12:21
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YggiDee posted:Holy poo poo, my older brother pulled that one on me ages ago (15+ years?) and I had nearly forgotten until now. We spent fifteen minutes freaking out in that room, assuming the timer would lead to our messy deaths. Thanks for the nostalgia bomb. The fun fact of this is that a room like that is a mantrap, they are really useful in real life security because it lets you have a security guard or whatever take the time to ask questions to the entering people and decide to let or not let them in. That fifteen minute timer could be hooked up to a bell that calls people in the break room and tells them to go get their sticks to be ready for beatin' 'cause someone rang the doorbell.
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Jul 29, 2015 17:34
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