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Xerxes17 posted:Of just the 57mm please. BR-281 (APHE-T): 13g of A-IX-2 BR-281U (APHE-T): 13g of A-IX-2 BR-271 (APHE-T): 14g of A-IX-2 BR-271K (APHE-T): 18g of A-IX-2 BR-271M (APHE-T): 13g of A-IX-2 Slim Jim Pickens posted:Just off the top of my head, mortars were battalion-level. Edit: For the Russians. Different calibres of mortars were issued at different levels according to my TM. 120mm was at the regimental level, 160mm was at the divisional level, and 82mm was at the battalion level. 107mm were mountain-only regimental level. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 06:46
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Edit: For the Russians.  160mm! How much HE in those?
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Jul 29, 2015 07:20
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:
Unknown at the time of writing for my TM (1953) The HE shell for the 120mm has about 4kg of HE for a 16.4kg projectile. If we assumed the same ratio applies (slightly less than 1/4 of the total weight), then the 160mm shell would have about 10kg of HE for a 40kg projectile. The ratio is almost certainly not the same, however, and I don't believe I have a book/source that expands upon the 160mm mortar or its ammunition.
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Jul 29, 2015 07:37
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Phobophilia posted:Sorry for single handedly ruining the Military History thread. You brought conflict to this place.
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Jul 29, 2015 11:01
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Saint Celestine posted:Not sure this one would be quite as interesting, considering the one-sidedness of that battle. I think the opening chapter of Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors covers it pretty well, personally.
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Jul 29, 2015 11:39
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100 Years Ago The road to the Battle of Loos begins. General Haig is absolutely opposed, but Joffre insists the BEF attack there to support Third Artois. A Bersaglieri subaltern describes conditions in the Alps at the moment (they're poo poo, quelle surprise), and a Kitchener's Army unit is occupying the new Hooge crater when one of its officers gets a very bad feeling and tries to do something about it.
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Jul 29, 2015 12:08
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There's a quote from a British Churchill tank commander who's tank is suddenly filled with dust after a small bang. They figure out later a mortar shell hit the tank, and did nothing except clean out the tank of all the dirt in every crevice,
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Jul 29, 2015 12:33
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Comstar posted:There's a quote from a British Churchill tank commander who's tank is suddenly filled with dust after a small bang. They figure out later a mortar shell hit the tank, and did nothing except clean out the tank of all the dirt in every crevice, This outcome depends heavily on size and type of shell hitting you.
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Jul 29, 2015 12:49
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Koesj posted:Ew, boardgames Question! A number of West German formations are abbreviated I.D., which I assume stands for Infantry division (Infanteriedivision). But as far as I can tell, the Bundeswehr never had actual Infantry Divisions named as such. Is this just a fuckup in East German intelligence or what?
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Jul 29, 2015 12:50
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ArchangeI posted:Question! A number of West German formations are abbreviated I.D., which I assume stands for Infantry division (Infanteriedivision). But as far as I can tell, the Bundeswehr never had actual Infantry Divisions named as such. Is this just a fuckup in East German intelligence or what? Could just be the way East Germans were labeling infantry divisions to help their own plans. Edit: Besides, they were using Infanteriedivision during WW2 so maybe the tradition/style was kept Nvm, derp Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 12:56
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To Enschende by D+5 seems somewhat ambitious.
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Jul 29, 2015 13:04
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I think those are indeed part product of the StaSi accounting school yet again inflating the enemy's capabilities for weird (internal propaganda? political?) reasons. Verfügungstruppenkommando 41 (a peacetime nominally divisional HQ) becomes an 'infantry division', which isn't totally unrealistic since the TerritorialKdo Schleswig-Holstein had a spare Heimatschützenbrigade (61) and two regiments (71 & 81) lying around, and the Danish Jutland BG might have needed a home as well. So yeah that's 6 or maybe even 9 pure leg infantry battalions with some reserve mech dudes thrown in. But then HSchBrig 61 gets upped to be a full Infantry Division too  e: KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:To Enschende by D+5 seems somewhat ambitious. Yeah that's over 50kms a day. Koesj fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 13:04
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A few things come to mind, if they get a breakthrough and the rear area is mostly unchallenged I could see fast movement along highways until American reinforcements from the South or French reserves from the West start trickling in. But D+3 to get lead recon units to the Weser is assuming everything goes right.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:40
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Some divers found a Russian WW1 submarine off the coast of Sweden. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/28/sweden-submarine-wreck-tsarist-russian-som-catfish Being a submariner during WW1 must have been quite the experience. Can't imagine they were terribly safe.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:52
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MrBling posted:Some divers found a Russian WW1 submarine off the coast of Sweden. Probably safer than infantry or airforce! 
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Jul 29, 2015 16:07
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I see that map as a contingency plan, along the lines of 'hey, suppose things actually go super great, do we just keep pushing or wot?' IIRC the eastern bloc liked to plan in detail like that?
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Jul 29, 2015 16:26
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Kemper Boyd posted:Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, which is about Leyte Gulf and the things that lead to it. Neptune's Inferno, which is about Guadalcanal. Seconding these two. Last Stand in particularly was by turns engrossing and horrifying! I wonder, does this style of book exist for armoured warfare? I know very little about that at the strategic level. I found it very interesting to have that mix of incredibly in-depth detail about the individual engagements, as well as the analysis of fleet level strategy. I.e. the damage that each shell caused to a ship, counterpoised by explanations of why strategic decisions were made and what doctrine was followed/ignored. I can't easily visualise how an armoured division in WWII for example, organises itself and integrates into combined arms while still maintaining some c+c and not loving up their supply line. Do they ever operate in large numbers as distinct companies as in an infantry regiment?
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Jul 29, 2015 18:00
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Tameichi Hara's autobiography Japanese Destroyer Captain is all kinds of cool too.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:20
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Hey guys, I'm looking for some audio book recommendations. Ive got a position in a forest science lab so I'm doing a lot of tedious work so audio books are perfect. I'm using audible if that helps. I've been on a huge WWI stint lately, I've read The Guns of August, A World Undone, Storm of Steel, and I'm just finishing up the audio book of Lawrence in Arabia. I've got The Somme, Verdun, and Catastrophe on hardback so I don't need to listen to those audio books. Does anyone have any recommendations? I'm willing to break from WWI but I don't want to get into WWII just yet. I've been trying to learn a little bit about the history of espionage since I started Anderson's audio book, but I don't know where to start.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:37
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"The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914" by Christopher Clark is a really good book about why WW1 happened rather than being WW1 as such. Highly recommended though.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:45
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Fangz posted:I see that map as a contingency plan, along the lines of 'hey, suppose things actually go super great, do we just keep pushing or wot?' Take it with a grain of salt, but I'd say yes, they liked planning in detail. Flexibility rested in the higher eshelons who could rely playbook of rehearsed maneuvers if need arose. Other than that, start by bombarding likely place of resistance, and just DRIVE. Don't reinforce the places that get stuck; reroute troops where the going is good and DRIVE. Maybe it was done with the thought that the lower rungs are not taught discipline; maybe because you wanted to get to the point where the French wouldn't be amped about dropping nukes.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:27
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MrBling posted:"The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914" by Christopher Clark is a really good book about why WW1 happened rather than being WW1 as such. Highly recommended though. Yeah it was really good but I wonder if he was an Austria-Hungary apologist like myself or Serbia (and the Entente) were that much of aggressive assholes compared with the Central Powers (probably true, Kaiser Wilhelm's delusions notwithstanding).
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Jul 29, 2015 20:22
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Tevery Best posted:
Dam, that really gets me. Has any of his works been translated into English? quote:
Noticed this when editing out Dmowski's quote, I'd prefer the Wilno Operation.
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Jul 29, 2015 20:26
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Monocled Falcon posted:Dam, that really gets me. Has any of his works been translated into English? Unfortunately, I'm fairly sure they haven't. They mostly deal with Polish issues and Polish stuff, so there wouldn't be much demand.
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Jul 29, 2015 21:31
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Yeah it was really good but I wonder if he was an Austria-Hungary apologist like myself or Serbia (and the Entente) were that much of aggressive assholes compared with the Central Powers (probably true, Kaiser Wilhelm's delusions notwithstanding). I'm certainly not objective in this matter, but Austria-Hungary was trying to get an excuse to invade Serbia ever since the pro-Austrian dictator-king of Serbia got shot and replaced in 1903 by a pro-France&Russia democracy-friendly king, and has tried to provoke Serbia into doing something stupid by embargoing trade (the so called Pig War), organizing a militia unit with a job of hunting down notable Serbs in Bosnia after annexing it, providing arms and money to groups that targeted Serbia, and starting an anti-Serb propaganda campaign that had a fair share of similarities to later Nazi antisemitic campaigns (in method, if not in scale). The propaganda campaign was rather successful, in the sense that we can still feel its effects, and many of its insane claims have entered "common knowledge". Mind you, not that Serbia didn't do stupid poo poo during those years, but AH kinda took stupid to a whole new level.
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Jul 29, 2015 21:33
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JcDent posted:Probably safer than infantry or airforce! I say. Just checked the Battle of Loos from Wikipedia (thanks Trin Tragula!). Holy poo poo: "The twelve attacking battalions suffered 8,000 casualties out of 10,000 men in four hours." How do people still continue after such slaughter? At that time probably 1/1 dead/wounded?
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Jul 29, 2015 21:54
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Letmebefrank posted:At that time probably 1/1 dead/wounded? Nah. Not nearly as good as it is today (or even WW2) of course, but much better than that. Off the top of my head it was something like roughly 1:4 for the major belligerents (france, Russia, Germany, England, etc.) although some of the small ones had numbers hugely skewed into the death column. I also don't know if those numbers were just battlefield deaths or if they also counted disease. At the same time I don't know how they counted wounded vs. killed. Was a guy who died two months later a KIA or WIA? What about someone who died in the fall of 1919 of wounds taken at the Somme? Regardless, it's enough to give you a flavor for the general magnitude of the ratio.
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Jul 29, 2015 22:12
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Even still, 60% of your starting force coming back moaning with giant holes shot into them is not something that'll inspire the troops.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:07
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my dad posted:tried to provoke Serbia into doing something stupid I'd say they were pretty successful at this. Overall, I thought Clark did a good job of showing how every participant could plausibly view themselves as simple peace lovers who had been left with no other options.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:20
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ArchangeI posted:Even still, 60% of your starting force coming back moaning with giant holes shot into them is not something that'll inspire the troops. Absolutely, I'm not arguing that it wasn't horrific, it just wasn't the absolute death sentence that many think of it as.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:38
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So, uh, if it's not obvious to you guys... I'm pretty sure I'm not the only goon who'd pay cashmoneys for a hardcopy of the effortposts compiled as an actual book when they're all done. Get on it guys.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:48
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P-Mack posted:I'd say they were pretty successful at this. Of course every participant could plausibly view themselves as simple peace lovers who had been left with no other options. Being able to plausibly view yourself as a simple peace lover who had been left with no other options is as simple as covering your ears and shouting "Lalala I can't hear you!" when someone complains. Recent examples: American invasion of Iraq and Russian invasion of Ukraine. Given enough time, the probability of there being an incident between two countries approaches one, especially if it's in the interest of one of the two that one should happen. And hey, turns out, small countries within military reach of a great power need to politically outmaneuver them every single time when an incident happens, but the great power need only politically outmaneuver the smaller country once. There's plenty to criticize in Serbia's policies towards other countries in the region at the time (I wish more people in Serbia were aware of just how badly Serbia handled the territories freed/occupied in the Balkan Wars), but there really isn't much else that could have been done with regards to AH. It's a miracle AH wasn't able to get the cause to go to war it wanted sooner. In a weird way, we get to thank the Hungarians for that, since most of their major politicians weren't big fans of having even more Slavs in the Empire.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:40
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my dad posted:but AH kinda took stupid to a whole new level. Especially when it came to tank design 
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Jul 30, 2015 00:56
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my dad posted:Of course every participant could plausibly view themselves as simple peace lovers who had been left with no other options. Being able to plausibly view yourself as a simple peace lover who had been left with no other options is as simple as covering your ears and shouting "Lalala I can't hear you!" Perhaps. I still thought it was interesting to learn the precise ways they did it, though.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:27
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Arquinsiel posted:So, uh, if it's not obvious to you guys... This X50,000. Like even just a little print on demand/kindle thing or whatever.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:59
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GAL, HEY and Rodrigo Diaz eds., Remove Balls to Fire Blanks. Pleasant Hill: Something Awful Dot Com, 201X.
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Jul 30, 2015 05:03
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Xerxes17 posted:Especially when it came to tank design AH could mean two things!
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Jul 30, 2015 05:29
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Frostwerks posted:AH could mean two things! 
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Jul 30, 2015 05:36
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AH could mean three things!
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Jul 30, 2015 05:49
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Still doesn't work unless Porsche begins with an H in Russian or something Gitler style
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Jul 30, 2015 06:05
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