|
If it's a question of having some structure and having someone push you to learn something like node.js, you can try Thinkful. It's way cheaper than a traditional bootcamp (and you can do it in your free time) and at the very least should give you an idea if this is the right direction. https://www.thinkful.com/ Alternatively, you could try Free Code Camp. http://www.freecodecamp.com/ Doesn't have mentors, etc, but there is an active group on their boards that help with problems, motivation, etc. Another thought on motivation though: Maybe you're having trouble teaching yourself node.js because you don't care about web dev? Explore traditional CS too. There are a lot of options for getting a second BA and that will lend you a lot more flexibility to explore the world of computer science than just having a Ruby stack shoved down your throat. This is just my uniformed opinion though. I'm currently heading back to school after briefly contemplating bootcamp but realizing I'm way more interested in machine learning and artificial intelligence.
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 13:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
triple sulk posted:1) They're mostly poo poo and will be even more poo poo in a couple years after the bubble finally pops Web bubble or bootcamp bubble? pistolshit posted:Explore traditional CS too. There are a lot of options for getting a second BA and that will lend you a lot more flexibility to explore the world of computer science than just having a Ruby stack shoved down your throat. Oh I don't even have a first BA! Really appreciate the advice and links; I think my eyes got big with the promise of fulltime programming work after only 6 months. I love programming and problem solving but my job is Network Operations and its putting me to sleep waiting for servers to catch fire. I'll try one or both of those sites and start attending some angular/backbone meetups; from what I gleaned in the bootcamp interview, that seems to be where one school primarily connect students and employers. Seeing more and more attractive stuff on Linkedin; I don't immediately see any jr. level stuff on StackOverflow but I will keep an eye on it as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 14:25
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:Web bubble or bootcamp bubble? All dev bubble. Well, startup/VC bubble, really. Lots of places hiring web devs are newer startups on some angel's allowance, and boot camps were created to fill that need for lots of developers quick after they began to flourish. They've become less and less successful as time goes on and the market gets saturated, though, so don't expect the gravy train to last much longer. Branch out of web dev, IMO.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 14:37
|
|
Pollyanna posted:All dev bubble. Pollyanna posted:Branch out of web dev, IMO. He's not a web dev... You should really not post
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 14:40
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:My questions are the following: Others have answered your points specifically, so I'm just going to chip in in general. I haven't seen the code for the apps you posted, but they don't look terrible. The second one especially looks like it could be doing some very interesting stuff under the hood. I would focus on iterating over your current apps and improve the code in the ways you've identified & further. Just that you recognize you did some things sub-optimally, and want to fix it, already puts you ahead of a lot of full time devs. You nail down your current code, and get some more general CS concepts under your belt (hashtables vs arrays, data structures, algorithms, etc), and you could easily land a full or part time dev role. Especially if you can combine it with your current knowledge of Network Operations, as domain knowledge is a huge asset in the area you are developing in. Feel free to PM me if you want me to look over your (I'm assuming VB.Net/C#, not so much Java) code. Skandranon fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jul 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 15:45
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:My questions are the following: A lot of people have had success from bootcamp schools. You have to find one that fits your price point and has good career guidance after you finish. Most people who graduate go into Jr. Dev positions. Avoid help desk jobs if you can. I would advise against taking student loans, especially private ones. I think you're best bet is to start applying for Jr Dev positions and emphasize your software development skills in those roles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 16:31
|
|
|
Skandranon posted:Feel free to PM me if you want me to look over your (I'm assuming VB.Net/C#, not so much Java) code. Nope! It's all AutoHotkey which is my problem; a completely unmarketable language. I don't have the patience for 4 years of college; so the bootcamp idea was/is still attractive. I just don't understand how to become a fulltime student this requires. It's annoying because I see people way older than myself in these schools; I can't be the only mid-twenties guy with a wife and child right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 16:39
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:Nope! It's all AutoHotkey which is my problem; a completely unmarketable language. Oh my.. well then, I would first work on porting your existing apps from AutoHotKey to something a little more marketable. You still have all the domain logic figured out, so this can be a good problem for learning a new language. If you are interested in Windows/desktop development, I would go for C#, and if you are more interested in web stuff, Node/JS. If going for Node, don't get caught up trying to replicate all your UI features (fancy graphs) in the beginning. Focus on getting it running and performing your logic, and then refining that. One way you could maybe do it slowly is by having your C#/NodeJS code do more and more of your data file processing, and outputting files that your current AutoHotKey UI can read. This will give you some real development experience, and then you should be able to decide A) if you like programming and B) which way you'd like to go with it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2015 17:27
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:Nope! It's all AutoHotkey which is my problem; a completely unmarketable language. I don't think the code school idea is entirely without merit. The problem is that I'm not totally sure it's a good idea in Portland, Oregon. If you were in Austin or RDU or some other place with a bunch of stupid startups and a low cost of living, code school isn't a terrible idea. Code school would also not be a bad idea if it's a code school that takes a percentage of your first year salary rather than charging x up front. Just knowing what autohotkey is and making all those apps means you could probably get a job doing test automation with zero additional background - you should just look and see if there are any software QA jobs around (particularly test automation jobs, maybe read something about selenium.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 00:43
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:Over the two years I've taught myself basic programming; I've made about 6 or 7 different applications to replace manual processes at work. I did Epicodus in Portland over a year ago. You can PM me if you have specific questions, want juicy details, to hear about the tech scene in Portland, whatever. 1) It worked for me. I came into it reasonably talented with technology but having not programmed much more than simple "here's some failing tests, use them to go make a pig latin translator or whatever" Ruby tutorials. Some people came into my cohort with backgrounds in other fields - off the top of my head, I remember marketing, parking valet, project management, graphic design, fencing coach, math teacher. 2) Maybe. I did. Most of my cohort who decided to continue on did. Around thirty of us filled out an anonymous survey of our salaries after a year and they ranged from $35k to $90k. Self-reported, so who really knows, but that's where people said they stood. In terms of my job and support, I don't even know what a telephone is, let alone how to answer one. 3) Like a "student loan" student loan? I mean, sure, you could use it for expenses if you could actually get one. But bootcamps aren't accredited, so that's probably not possible. 4) Without intending to endorse or knock them, because you're an adult who can make their own financial decisions, places like LendLayer exist where you can borrow money for bootcamp tuition. 5) Panhandling's practically a cottage industry in Portland. Get a cardboard sign and a dog, get off the Max at Pioneer Square, and you're good to go. fantastic in plastic fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jul 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 02:35
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:Nope! It's all AutoHotkey which is my problem; a completely unmarketable language. The whole application is in AutoHotkey, UI included?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 14:22
|
|
|
 I just got an incredibly respectful offer from a company in Boston! The phone screening and on-site stuff went extremely well! Thank you, thread. Lurking in you doesn't make dreams happen, but it definitely helps.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 16:06
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:Nope! It's all AutoHotkey which is my problem; a completely unmarketable language. I'm quite familiar with AutoIT, and I haven't looked at AHK in years, but I know it's pretty simple to use AutoIT from python. Maybe AHK has a COM interface as well. If so, maybe that's a route forward for you...convert your current AHK programs to Python.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 18:17
|
|
|
pistolshit posted:There are a lot of options for getting a second BA and that will lend you a lot more flexibility to explore the world of computer science than just having a Ruby stack shoved down your throat. I have a BS in Chemistry and I was trying to teach myself Python, but not having much luck staying focused on the Coursera stuff I was doing. I realized that I work at a community college, and so I can get an AS in Software Development for basically $1000 over 2 years due to free tuition. I also find I tend to learn better in a situation like that vs self-taught stuff. How badly would having an unrelated BS and a coding intensive AS hold me back as compared to a second BS? I really can't afford tuition at a 4 year place right now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 20:37
|
|
|
frood posted:I have a BS in Chemistry and I was trying to teach myself Python, but not having much luck staying focused on the Coursera stuff I was doing. I realized that I work at a community college, and so I can get an AS in Software Development for basically $1000 over 2 years due to free tuition. I also find I tend to learn better in a situation like that vs self-taught stuff. How badly would having an unrelated BS and a coding intensive AS hold me back as compared to a second BS? I really can't afford tuition at a 4 year place right now. College education is not directly relevant to being employed as a software developer. It can help, but tons of people are self-taught. If you can program, people will hire you regardless of what degrees you have.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 20:52
|
|
|
Ithaqua posted:College education is not directly relevant to being employed as a software developer. It can help, but tons of people are self-taught. If you can program, people will hire you regardless of what degrees you have. quote:I also find I tend to learn better in a [structured environment] vs self-taught stuff. Getting the AS itself probably isn't terribly important, but taking the classes could be still be very useful just because of the structure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
Cheston posted:
Respectful for where you live now or respectful for Boston? Remember that's one of the most expensive cities on the east coast right now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Just did my second Google online/telephone interview. Got asked to check if a string is a palindrome, ignoring case and skipping non-alphas. So I think that went fine. And I guess if I somehow hosed that up I can just quit being a developer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2015 22:22
|
|
|
Tunga posted:Just did my second Google online/telephone interview. Got asked to check if a string is a palindrome, ignoring case and skipping non-alphas. So I think that went fine. And I guess if I somehow hosed that up I can just quit being a developer. This was the first code challenge I ever did that wasn't part of a "Beginners guide to javascript" course.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2015 23:25
|
|
|
The harder version I've seen is distance to the nearest palindrome (either by inserting, or swapping letters).
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2015 23:32
|
|
|
wait, like not even 'find the largest palindrome in this string' but just, 'is this string a palindrome'?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2015 23:38
|
|
|
JawKnee posted:wait, like not even 'find the largest palindrome in this string' but just, 'is this string a palindrome'? Edit: This was for a dev advocate position so it may be a little easier than straight engineering, I don't know. He did emphasise how they want people are are engineers primarily, but that doesn't mean the standards is as high. The previous interview I did (for the same role) gave me a slightly tougher question related to run-length encoding. Tunga fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2015 23:40
|
|
|
Jsor posted:The harder version I've seen is distance to the nearest palindrome (either by inserting, or swapping letters). The swap case is almost as simple as the base detection case, but the insertion case is pretty darn interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2015 01:08
|
|
|
Tunga posted:Edit: This was for a dev advocate position so it may be a little easier than straight engineering, I don't know. He did emphasise how they want people are are engineers primarily, but that doesn't mean the standards is as high. The previous interview I did (for the same role) gave me a slightly tougher question related to run-length encoding. Never heard of that title before, but some quick searching leads me to believe that "developer advocate" is some kind of cross-breed of HR and DevOps, i.e. not much actual software engineering involved. That may not be the case for the company you're interviewing with, but I'd take a close look at the job duties before I accepted anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2015 02:14
|
|
|
Che Delilas posted:Never heard of that title before, but some quick searching leads me to believe that "developer advocate" is some kind of cross-breed of HR and DevOps, i.e. not much actual software engineering involved. That may not be the case for the company you're interviewing with, but I'd take a close look at the job duties before I accepted anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2015 11:32
|
|
|
JawKnee posted:wait, like not even 'find the largest palindrome in this string' but just, 'is this string a palindrome'? I use this on R&D intern candidates. It's actually a pretty good sieve because it can have multiple answers that are strictly correct but less efficient than other answers, plus it's a quick one to alter requirements on without altering the basic idea too much. "input.reverse() == input ... okay, that fits the problem definition, but I'm going to use this on gigantic strings and memory usage is important. Can you do it in place?" "for (int i = 0; i < input.size(); i++) ... can you do this without iterating over the entire input?" - if the candidate generates this first then it's a sure bet that they're going to freak out over whether size / 2 will handle odd-lengthed inputs correctly. Now it's time to talk about test cases. "Your project manager says your newest customer disagrees that Anna is a palindrome. How would you let the caller decide?" - please do not write a second isCaseSensitivePalindrome and totally reimplement the first function but with a different character compare.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2015 14:26
|
|
|
Oh, I was also specifically told to do it in-place, forgot that part. It's obviously ludicrously trivial without this requirement  . And it required a while loop with two pointers because of the part about ignoring non-alpha chars. but yeah, it's still a pretty simple problem. But people trip up on simple problems in interviews. I actually realised this morning that there is a little mistake in mine where I had length-i in a line I wrote at the start and then I realised after a couple of lines that I'd need two pointers. So I changed the for to a while, added the pointers, added the rest of the code, and then didn't go back and change the length-i to j. So it depends how picky he was feeling, I guess. I need to be more careful when reading over my solution at the end.
Tunga fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Jul 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2015 14:42
|
|
|
code:
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2015 21:42
|
|
|
Apparently I did okay in my google phone interview and they want me to go in house! Also, I got an email back from bloomberg that we're not moving forward, which is strange because I thought I did a lot better in that interview. Bloomberg interview was entirely c++ feature trivia questions. I looked things up afterwards and the only thing I clearly got wrong is that I didn't know you needed "extern "C" {" before including C library headers (in my experience, many libraries seem to include that in their headers anyway). Maybe I should have applied for a less senior position or something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2015 21:55
|
|
|
It's a stereotype that dumb NYC companies ask stupid C++ trivia questions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
Chunjee posted:My questions are the following: I went to App Academy in NYC and I got a non-junior software engineer position and so did a few of my classmates (the majority of the rest got Jr. positions, a few are still looking but those still without jobs were mostly low performers).
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 03:15
|
|
|
I started at a larger, respected online marketing company last week as a dev intern. I'm nothing great - have a two year degree, a bunch of side projects, and am coming off a 'career' of being a server/barback. I'm pushing as hard as I can and naturally pick things up very quickly / am a master of GoogleFu. I have somehow managed to impress the lead dev on my team, the dev manager, and the senior director... they want to cut my 3 month dev internship which is capped at 29hr/week short and push me straight into a dev spot in a week or two. I'm worried about being pushed into a spot where there is too much pressure on me to be a badass since I feel like I'm not ready to dev a real production site from the ground up. What should I do? Go with the flow and work as hard as I can? Talk to them and try to slow it down, which may put me in a negative light? No idea here. I've been chipping away at bugs all week and I think I'm doing fairly well for my experience but... I just feel like there is a world of difference between poking around with Chrome inspector until I get the right CSS changes for things to work, fixing/building on existing ASP.NET stuff, fixing existing Angular functions, etc versus taking a site from wireframe up. Christ. Just feeling the pressure, I guess. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 03:23
|
|
|
BlackMK4 posted:I started at a larger, respected online marketing company last week as a dev intern. I'm nothing great - have a two year degree, a bunch of side projects, and am coming off a 'career' of being a server/barback. I'm pushing as hard as I can and naturally pick things up very quickly / am a master of GoogleFu. I have somehow managed to impress the lead dev on my team, the dev manager, and the senior director... they want to cut my 3 month dev internship short and push me straight into a dev spot in a week or two. I'm worried about being pushed into a spot where there is too much pressure on me to be a badass since I feel like I'm not ready to dev a real production site from the ground up. What should I do? Go with the flow and work as hard as I can? Talk to them and try to slow it down, which may put me in a negative light? No idea here. I've been working on a Sitecore site fixing bugs this week and have been chipping away pretty well for having never touched a real MVC before, haven't used Javascript really before, haven't had to pixel perfect design across platforms, etc but... Christ. Just feeling the pressure, I guess. If you really want to be a software developer, then go for it. You are never going to feel ready. Trade secret, none of us really feel like we know what we are doing, we're all flying by the seat of our pants.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 03:51
|
|
|
Skandranon posted:Trade secret, none of us really feel like we know what we are doing, we're all flying by the seat of our pants. You can find people who feel like they know what they are doing. A few of those people in fact do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
What you two say makes sense... I just don't want to be the guy on the team that sucks. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 03:57
|
|
|
BlackMK4 posted:What you two say makes sense... I just don't want to be the guy on the team that sucks. You think there will only be one? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
There are, I think, 3 or 4 devs per team with a lead dev in each. Two teams. Can't be many that suck
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jul 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
BlackMK4 posted:I just feel like there is a world of difference between poking around with Chrome inspector until I get the right CSS changes for things to work, fixing/building on existing ASP.NET stuff, fixing existing Angular functions, etc versus taking a site from wireframe up. There isn't, other than sometimes you have to make the CSS work in some horrible browser from 6 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 05:06
|
|
|
BlackMK4 posted:There are, I think, 3 or 4 devs per team with a lead dev in each. Two teams. Can't be many that suck Stop fretting about it and just dive in. Remember, they're the ones who are cutting your internship short to offer you a full time position, which should really tell you something about how qualified they think you are. And frankly, they're more qualified than you are to determine how qualified you are. Don't be afraid to ask questions when something stumps you, and try not to compare yourself to someone who's been doing this years longer than you have; it's a worthless exercise. They're not going to have the same level of expectations for you as they do for their senior developers. Just do as much as you can and learn as much as you can while you're doing it. Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jul 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
BlackMK4 posted:There are, I think, 3 or 4 devs per team with a lead dev in each. Two teams. Can't be many that suck probably like five of them suck. welcome to the industry
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2015 06:08
|
|
