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According to Afghanistan, it turns out Mullah Omar died two years ago in a Pakistan hospital. 
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Jul 29, 2015 18:31
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The government of Afghanistan released a statement that Mohammed Omar died in 2013 in Karachi. The Taliban has denied unofficial rumors about this for years, but if there was ever a time when the students needed a statement from MOM himself, this is it. Chances are they won't get one. http://president.gov.af/en/news/press-release-on-the-death-of-taliban-leader http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8aea0d55437f4bac9f0356cf0510a69b/afghanistan-examining-claim-taliban-leader-mullah-omar-died
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Jul 29, 2015 18:33
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Personally, I blame Alp Arslan for this nonsense. Never trust a Seljuk.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:35
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Jagchosis posted:According to Afghanistan, it turns out Mullah Omar died two years ago in a Pakistan hospital. I'll believe it when we DNA test the corpse.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:39
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Baloogan posted:Is there any mechanism for kicking a country out of NATO? The most reliable is if article 5 is invoked and they refuse to send troops.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:16
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On the Kurds - Turkey topic, didn't see this get posted http://www.businessinsider.com.au/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7 quote:Links between Turkey and ISIS are now 'undeniable' Must have made the recent NATO meeting really awkward. http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/what-support-does-turkey-want-from-nato
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Jul 29, 2015 19:33
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A link to the Guardian story is on the previous page.
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Jul 29, 2015 20:07
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Canadian Surf Club posted:On the Kurds - Turkey topic, didn't see this get posted sparatuvs posted:I really feel like an idiot for arguing with people I know that Turkey's support of ISIS was not direct, I was acting all smug about the sources they used too. There are no specifics regarding the ISIS-Turkey links (other than that they are “so clear” and “undeniable”); presumably Turkish officials are arranging purchases of oil from ISIS controlled producers under sanctions. There's precedent for this. Turkey has been a valuable partner to Iran when it comes to evading sanctions: http://iranmatters.belfercenter.org/blog/iranian-connection-turkey%E2%80%99s-corruption-scandal I would like to see specifics regarding the intelligence gathered in the raid before I draw conclusions about the ISIS-Turkey relationship. edit: cleaned up my sentences Dilkington fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 20:20
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Dilkington posted:There's precedent for this. Turkish officials made a lot of money helping their strategic competitor Iran evade sanctions: Man, that looks a bit awkward now that the sanctions are on their way out isn't it? Somebody might be poised to lose a lot of income because of this.
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Jul 29, 2015 20:26
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Baloogan posted:Is there any mechanism for kicking a country out of NATO? Geopolitics are bigger than just Turkey and Syria, as awful as Erdogan might be behaving Russia and China area always on America's mind and Turkey's strategic location is pretty critical. Turkey being shunned by the West would result in a huge Middle Eastern power bloc realignment.
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Jul 29, 2015 20:51
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Dolash posted:Geopolitics are bigger than just Turkey and Syria, as awful as Erdogan might be behaving Russia and China area always on America's mind and Turkey's strategic location is pretty critical. Turkey being shunned by the West would result in a huge Middle Eastern power bloc realignment. You're right. If only an appropriate Turkish leader would take care of Erdogan and set the nation back on the proper course, well, I'm sure we could afford to send Turkey a few excess squadrons of F-16s then. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 29, 2015 20:58
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My Imaginary GF posted:You're right. well, thats probably going to happen sooner or later.
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Jul 29, 2015 21:25
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Dapper_Swindler posted:well, thats probably going to happen sooner or later. I would imagine the military is more or less on board with the AKP vis a vis the Kurds, if history is any indicator.
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Jul 29, 2015 21:28
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Baloogan posted:Is there any mechanism for kicking a country out of NATO? turkey's done much worse than this and stayed in
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Jul 29, 2015 21:58
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Dolash posted:Geopolitics are bigger than just Turkey and Syria, as awful as Erdogan might be behaving Russia and China area always on America's mind and Turkey's strategic location is pretty critical. Turkey being shunned by the West would result in a huge Middle Eastern power bloc realignment. A fair point, but I wonder how much influence Russia in particular can peddle with Turkey given that they are the backbone of support keeping Assad in power and blocking western intervention against his regime. Does AKP or the Turkish government have any official line on Chinese abuse of Uyghur populations in xinjiang? Does Turkey have any unofficial dealings with separatist groups in western China, or is that too far abroad to make much difference?
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Jul 29, 2015 22:25
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V. Illych L. posted:turkey's done much worse than this and stayed in Not to mention that they're easily and by far the most strategically vital member of NATO.
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Jul 29, 2015 22:26
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Baloogan posted:Is there any mechanism for kicking a country out of NATO? Turkey keeps Russia's Black Sea fleet out of the Mediterranean. They could take over a couple of Greek islands and still be allowed in NATO. Nintendo Kid posted:The most reliable is if article 5 is invoked and they refuse to send troops. Article 5 doesn't mandate a military response. It only forces a country to execute "that action which it deems necessary", which falls anywhere between an official diplomatic protest and a full nuclear strike.
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Jul 29, 2015 22:32
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Has there been any confirmation of Turkish airstrikes on the YPG, as opposed to the PKK? Last I saw the latter was confirmed, and the former was still a he-said she-said between Turkey and the YPG
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Jul 29, 2015 22:56
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Zeroisanumber posted:Not to mention that they're easily and by far the most strategically vital member of NATO. I hope you mean aside from the United States, which is more vital than the rest of the members combined. 
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Jul 29, 2015 23:09
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So has Erdogan managed to put the US and NATO in the awkward position of having to take sides with Turkey or the Syrian Kurds, wherein all the recent gains against ISIS could be effectively lost?
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Jul 30, 2015 00:47
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FaustianQ posted:So has Erdogan managed to put the US and NATO in the awkward position of having to take sides with Turkey or the Syrian Kurds, wherein all the recent gains against ISIS could be effectively lost? I dont think Turkey can do anything to turn back the Kurds gains against ISIS, what would be the worst thing they could possibly do in this situation if the US simply keeps supporting the Kurds?
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Jul 30, 2015 00:55
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Fizzil posted:I dont think Turkey can do anything to turn back the Kurds gains against ISIS, what would be the worst thing they could possibly do in this situation if the US simply keeps supporting the Kurds? invade northern syria, force the ypg into the mountains, burn the land and salt the earth
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Jul 30, 2015 00:58
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Fizzil posted:I dont think Turkey can do anything to turn back the Kurds gains against ISIS, what would be the worst thing they could possibly do in this situation if the US simply keeps supporting the Kurds? Yet it's entirely possible the airstrikes supporting the Kurds stop, and that's not just losing momentum, that could actually reverse all the gains. Erdogans whole play here might force the US to pick him over supporting the Kurds, or just drop support entirely.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:01
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There really is no hope for the Middle East.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:33
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If Obama caved to Turkey, he may as well just tell every ally in the world they can walk all over the US. Turkey has plenty of leverage in this situation, but telling the US to gently caress itself really shouldn't be a consequence free action from a supposed ally ostensibly on the same side in a conflict.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:40
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Zeroisanumber posted:Not to mention that they're easily and by far the most strategically vital member of NATO. Probably for containment of Russia (why NATO exists) Britian is the most geopolitically important as it's navy and airpower defend both the English Channel and GIUK Gap.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:52
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Sinteres posted:If Obama caved to Turkey, he may as well just tell every ally in the world they can walk all over the US. Turkey has plenty of leverage in this situation, but telling the US to gently caress itself really shouldn't be a consequence free action from a supposed ally ostensibly on the same side in a conflict. Well hey, why should Israel have all the fun?
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Jul 30, 2015 02:40
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Bip Roberts posted:Probably for containment of Russia (why NATO exists) Britian is the most geopolitically important as it's navy and airpower defend both the English Channel and GIUK Gap. Preventing free Russian access in and out of the Mediterranean would be vital in an actual war, and Turkey covers that since they do own the straits leading into Russia's southern naval bases.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:43
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Sinteres posted:If Obama caved to Turkey, he may as well just tell every ally in the world they can walk all over the US. Turkey has plenty of leverage in this situation, but telling the US to gently caress itself really shouldn't be a consequence free action from a supposed ally ostensibly on the same side in a conflict. I honestly don't think he's going to cave to Turkey, but what choice does he have on making this situation right, that isn't just going to make things worse? Erdogan is dead set on this powerplay it seems, what is Obama going to do, withhold something or use ISIS-AKP links to get Erdogan to drop charges on the HDP? That won't satisfy the PKK, Erdogan would have to step down.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:45
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Nintendo Kid posted:Preventing free Russian access in and out of the Mediterranean would be vital in an actual war, and Turkey covers that since they do own the straits leading into Russia's southern naval bases. In an actual war, wouldn't Russian ships in the Mediterranean pretty much be fish in a barrel at this point anyway? FaustianQ posted:I honestly don't think he's going to cave to Turkey, but what choice does he have on making this situation right, that isn't just going to make things worse? Erdogan is dead set on this powerplay it seems, what is Obama going to do, withhold something or use ISIS-AKP links to get Erdogan to drop charges on the HDP? That won't satisfy the PKK, Erdogan would have to step down. Erdogan can probably get away with fighting the PKK in Iraq if that's what he wants, particularly if they're actively participating in reprisal attacks; there's a lot of precedent for everyone looking the other way when that happens. He may even get away with banning an opposition party, since nobody really minded too much when Sisi did that in Egypt, though he'll presumably at least face some criticism in Western media for being a tyrant. What I don't think the US should allow is for Erdogan to use that as a justification to attack other Kurdish groups in Syria just because he feels like it, at least as long as the Syrian Kurds continue to focus on ISIS rather than what's going on across the border. I don't know if the military has any teeth left after more than a decade of being defanged, but one would think they'd be pretty unhappy with Erdogan going out of his way to alienate their most important ally if this turned into a real pissing contest.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:07
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I'm not intending to portray the Kurds as a monolithic entity, honest, but aren't the Syrian Kurds, PKK and HDP roughly on the same wavelength? How would the US letting Erdogan getting away with banning HDP and slamming the PKK really improve US-Kurd working relationship? Wouldn't this be seen as another betrayal and drive recruits and membership away from the FSA/YPG, crippling operations in Syria? Erdogan may want that but that's not what the US wants, and the resulting collapse may just cause further unrest inside Turkey AND drive people to ISIS. It's already been discussed that there are Kurds within ISIS, if put into the Iraq Sunni's position why wouldn't they make the same choice?
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Jul 30, 2015 03:28
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Yeah I think connections are close enough that at the very least you'd see huge numbers of PKK types up stakes from Iraqi Kurdistan and join the YPG in Syria, at which point Turkish bombing would be back to the Kurds fighting ISIS and there simply wouldn't be any way to distinguish them. It's really, really sad. My uncle did his national service in Turkey 7 or 8 years ago now and said he made good friends with a Kurdish guy that was there as part of his sentence for manufacturing heroin. The dude basically saw it as his only realy workable source of income. So my uncle got to enjoy that and basically sitting around playing cards with camp medic for the whole of his 'basic training' but at the time it seemed people were somewhat optimistic about things getting better.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:07
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Fizzil posted:I dont think Turkey can do anything to turn back the Kurds gains against ISIS, what would be the worst thing they could possibly do in this situation if the US simply keeps supporting the Kurds? Tell the US that they can't use Turkish airfields to bomb ISIS anymore. I doubt that will happen though. Obama and Erdogan had a very long phone conversation, and 8 hours later, Turkey was bombing the PKK and ISIS with American support, and the US was using Turkish airfields. The negotiating has probably already been done.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:42
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Fantastic article from FP outlining how Erdogans calculus has changed and why. It's really something that the guy who wooed Kurdish voters by opening the peace process with the PKK has thrown all that good will away for a single chance at more power. It could very well provide some major cracks in the foundation of Erdogans Turkey. http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/29/erdogan-turkey-kurds-islamic-state/
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Jul 30, 2015 07:01
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My Imaginary GF posted:
Hilariously, from a series of rhetorical questions you bring up under this thread to further your bullshit line of thought, only the answer to the first question is yes. And that is only because anyone making it across the border to the Turkish side can get medical care, unless they are clearly uniformed (in which case, they'd be under the employ of Assad). Turkish Ministry of Health published numbers regarding this a few months back. Surprisingly, it turned out YPG and the other Kurdish organizations benefited most from this, as most of their casualties receive medical care and get back up on their feet through Turkish hospitals. Israel has a similar policy on their end of the border with Syria. They do provide indiscriminate medical aid to those who reach the stations that provide humanitarian aid on the border. Needless to say, if you were intellectually honest, that would have necessitated you to also argue that Israel, next to Turkey, also supports ISIS. But hey, why am I so sure that you will never argue that line? But please do continue to amuse us and demonstrate to us how 'Turkish Security' (or whatever that would entail in your improper usage of terms associated with Turkish government/military structures) provide ISIL/ISIS with arms, heavy weapons and coordination. Surely you have plenty of proof that has been published on respectable outlets? And while at it, do the same about 'Turkish officials making bank off ISIL protection payments' too. 
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Jul 30, 2015 07:24
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Sergg posted:This is a dumb opinion and you should be embarrassed for typing out these idiotic words. Hope this helps. His first part of the argument has merit. PKK conducts their play from the standard issue marxist/maoist guerilla's handbook. Attacking and killing civilian servants such as teachers and medical staff assigned to the Southeastern Turkey, attacks on civil engineering projects that are part of the regional prosperity initiatives that the central government takes up (such as dams and irrigation projects) etc. are still going on and not just the PKK's playbook from 90s. Last week, in Southeastern Turkey, a group of PKK terrorists called in emergency services and reported in a case of child birth and requested an ambulance. When the ambulance arrived at the given address, the crew was taken off it and saw the barrel end of their weapons and they opened up on the ambulance itself, destroying it. Then they kidnapped the EM crew and they are still holding them as captives.
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Jul 30, 2015 07:31
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My Imaginary GF posted:Ding ding ding. Turkey has a great working relation with ISIL; why would they want to lose it? Ding ding ding, you are talking out of your rear end again.
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Jul 30, 2015 07:33
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almighty posted:His first part of the argument has merit. PKK conducts their play from the standard issue marxist/maoist guerilla's handbook. Are you Turkish Almighty?
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Jul 30, 2015 07:36
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almighty posted:His first part of the argument has merit. PKK conducts their play from the standard issue marxist/maoist guerilla's handbook. The PKK is probably the least objectionable armed group for five thousand kilometers in any direction. Are you trolling with this stuff?
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Jul 30, 2015 09:31
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ToxicAcne posted:Are you Turkish Almighty? Did you really have to ask? He rapid fires 3-4 replies with Turkish propaganda every couple of days and then disappears.
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Jul 30, 2015 09:50
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