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BigRed0427 posted:That's probably the best way to put it. For me, you can only see a character get shat on so much before you start asking "Things have to start getting better for them" And then you see them suffer ANOTHER pile of poo poo. Now I didn't see the latest season, only read about what happened to Sansa. But I can tell you from other things I read/watched that seeing a character just continually having bad stuff happen to them and never get a win gets annoying to watch after awhile This probably belongs in a different thread but I can't help but feel that Sansa's continual misfortune HAS to be leading up to an eventually even bigger kingmaker move from her part. Like, she's got to learn SOMETHING from Littlefinger, and sticking her in Winterfell instead of Jeyne Poole HAS to have some kind of intended consequence. If it ends up just being a cheap lazy foil for Ramsay it's just way below the usual writing par.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:50
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BigRed0427 posted:That's probably the best way to put it. For me, you can only see a character get shat on so much before you start asking "Things have to start getting better for them" And then you see them suffer ANOTHER pile of poo poo. Now I didn't see the latest season, only read about what happened to Sansa. But I can tell you from other things I read/watched that seeing a character just continually having bad stuff happen to them and never get a win gets annoying to watch after awhile this^ thats why its hard to watch the show sometimes. Good people get hosed over by smarter, more evil people. yeah sure bad things happen to bad people every once and while. but not often enough. Ex. joffery and the SHAME parade. Intel&Sebastian posted:The vast majority of people I saw get upset about that scene had zero idea why they were upset. They were outraged that it was happening to Sansa but that's not heavy enough so instead of admitting that, the community cooked up 20 different feminist takes on the whole thing and maybe 5 are valid complaints. this.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:55
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Intel&Sebastian posted:The vast majority of people I saw get upset about that scene had zero idea why they were upset. They were outraged that it was happening to Sansa but that's not heavy enough so instead of admitting that, the community cooked up 20 different feminist takes on the whole thing and maybe 5 are valid complaints. It was literally the tamest rape shown on the show, and it wasn't even directly shown it was just implied by the sounds and Theon's horrified face while he was forced to watch. Contrast that with all the other on-screen rapes shown and suddenly its "Why are you still watching this show if this is what set you off? Things 10x worse have already happened" as well as the huge number of people being brutally murdered not being a turn-off. Yeah, mass baby murder is shocking but it didn't stoke the fires like a specific woman being raped.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:56
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Thing is, A Song of Ice and Fire/GoT shows sexual violence as bad, done by bad people and a society where this is acceptable is bad, its as simple as that. It doesn't glamorize it or say "its acceptable because this person is a great man", which is sadly found in a lot of fantasy having their male character take women in any way because that's their right, and its not commented on at all. Probably should read Sword of Truth novels where this is pretty much regular throughout the series. You can say "If they have dragons, why not have a medieval society that didn't treat women like poo poo???" but if you're trying to actually say something about the treatment of women in genre fiction, or in general, that would be foolish. GRRM isn't probably the best person to say these things, but at least he's aware of it. The main character in Sword of Truth,Richard, kicks a young girl in the jaw, making her bite her own tongue off and shattering her teeth because she was mouthing off at him. Everyone around him kinda goes "That's fine because Richard is a super awesome dude". I'd say that series was way more popular than ASOIF before show. I litearlly read every novel as they came out past the first 4, buying in hardcover mostly, it wasn't until I had finished it I realized what a giant piece of right wing libertarian women hating garbage it is. Thing is, when you read old stuff, like Howard, Burroghs, Lovecraft or Tolkien you have you accept there treatment of women and race are not going to be very good, as that was the times they lived in, it was not a common thing in the early to mid part of the 20th century, and wasn't really mainstream until at least the 70s (though even for the times, Lovecraft was pretty racist, the Street and Terror at Redhook are pretty obvious examples). A Modern reader should be able to say "I accept this as part of the narrative, but not the message that it is trying to convey". Oh, here's a weird thing, I saw a list earlier this week about "top 100 conservative books" and Dune was listed there. Uh what? Dune is an novel about environmentalism, ecology, about religion and fanaticism, colonialism and corporatism and the exploitation of resources, the marginalization of native peoples. It is in no way a conservative book. Unless you somehow think the Harkonnens and Emperor are the good guys.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:57
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pentyne posted:It was literally the tamest rape shown on the show, and it wasn't even directly shown it was just implied by the sounds and Theon's horrified face while he was forced to watch. I have a sneaking feeling that because Khal Drogo and Jaime Lannister were more sympathetic characters than Ramsay, and especially Cersei was far less sympathetic than Sansa as a victim, people's moral bells didn't go off until their attachments were strained.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:58
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pentyne posted:It was literally the tamest rape shown on the show, and it wasn't even directly shown it was just implied by the sounds and Theon's horrified face while he was forced to watch. Because as i said earlier. alot of them probably dont watch the show. They heard about the episode from their friends, watched the scene on youtube and got mad. I can understand why fans got mad. because its just another scene making GBS threads on sansa and making her a foil for ramsey.
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Jul 29, 2015 23:59
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Coohoolin posted:I have a sneaking feeling that because Khal Drogo and Jaime Lannister were more sympathetic characters than Ramsay, and especially Cersei was far less sympathetic than Sansa as a victim, people's moral bells didn't go off until their attachments were strained. That's a huge part. It's not as simple as "there was a rape scene right at the beginning of the series and it didn't get any outcry", because there's much more to it. That rape scene was right onscreen, it was shot like a softcore porn, and in the finest romance novel tradition she was raped until she fell in love with her captor. Pretty drat disturbing stuff. This season, a lot of it wasn't people upset that there was rape. They were upset that there was unsexy rape. That bothers me.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:02
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twistedmentat posted:Thing is, A Song of Ice and Fire/GoT shows sexual violence as bad, done by bad people and a society where this is acceptable is bad, its as simple as that. It doesn't glamorize it or say "its acceptable because this person is a great man", which is sadly found in a lot of fantasy having their male character take women in any way because that's their right, and its not commented on at all. Probably should read Sword of Truth novels where this is pretty much regular throughout the series. You can say "If they have dragons, why not have a medieval society that didn't treat women like poo poo???" but if you're trying to actually say something about the treatment of women in genre fiction, or in general, that would be foolish. GRRM isn't probably the best person to say these things, but at least he's aware of it. Because alot of people now a days think showing something= endorsing something. I like reading stuff like howard and lovecraft because it gives you an insite on how people thought of stuff at the time. it doesnt mean i agree with it.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:04
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Coohoolin posted:I have a sneaking feeling that because Khal Drogo and Jaime Lannister were more sympathetic characters than Ramsay, and especially Cersei was far less sympathetic than Sansa as a victim, people's moral bells didn't go off until their attachments were strained. The Khal Drogo thing felt more like a romance novel, where the burly barbarian/pirate/knight/firefighter/dinosaur forces themselves upon the heroin who resists at first but gives in because she was just scared and naiive. A lot of women I know who watch the show who have read those kinds of novels said that's pretty standard fair. The Jamie scene was not intended to be rapy, Cersei's resistance to it was more like "This is not the right place for sex, next to our dead incest monster baby's body" rather than actually resistance to Jamie's advances. Bad directing and editing lead to it to seem more than it was. Everyone in involved was taken aback that people read the scene as a rape scene. Funny thing in the books I always got the impression Cersei was the one who initiated everything. Dapper_Swindler posted:Because alot of people now a days think showing something= endorsing something. I like reading stuff like howard and lovecraft because it gives you an insite on how people thought of stuff at the time. it doesnt mean i agree with it. Yea, like when people got angry that Loki calls Widow a oval office in Avengers, it wasn't because Loki is an insane genocidal maniac who hates everyone but himself, nope because Whedon hates women! By those people logic, all those lifetime movies about battered women exist because lifetime really loves seeing women raped and abused.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:06
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^^^^^ that's the "mewling quim" thing, yeah? I thought that was just very very clever writing to get past the censors. Killer robot posted:That's a huge part. It's not as simple as "there was a rape scene right at the beginning of the series and it didn't get any outcry", because there's much more to it. That rape scene was right onscreen, it was shot like a softcore porn, and in the finest romance novel tradition she was raped until she fell in love with her captor. Pretty drat disturbing stuff. This season, a lot of it wasn't people upset that there was rape. They were upset that there was unsexy rape. That bothers me. That's why, out of all the changes they've made from the books, Dany and Drogo's first meeting bothers me the most. She liked him from the start, it doesn't change the story, or make her love for him and her actions based on that any less meaningful or realistic. There's absolutely no point and it turns their entire relationship into a creepy as gently caress issue.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:09
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Coohoolin posted:^^^^^ to be fair, the only dude she had know before then was her brother, so she already has a damaged view of men.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:14
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Did the forum names get switched around or something?
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Jul 30, 2015 00:15
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Spun Dog posted:Did the forum names get switched around or something? Naa, we just ran out of Right wing idiots to talk about for now.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:20
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Renly Baratheon was the only equal opps employer in Westeros and it's down to the Lannisteronian consensus of hegemonic bardship narrative that we ignore his candidacy and legacy.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:22
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Because alot of people now a days think showing something= endorsing something. I like reading stuff like howard and lovecraft because it gives you an insite on how people thought of stuff at the time. it doesnt mean i agree with it. Yeah this is true, and it's especially dumb because if you really think about it this would mean GRRM supports genocide of the entire human race, because the rate of people dying in the series is pretty unsustainable.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:22
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What does any of this have to do with right wing media?
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Jul 30, 2015 00:31
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site posted:What does any of this have to do with right wing media? A tremendous amount of modern fantasy and scifi is pretty much right wing fan wank material and is somewhat valid discussion fodder for this thread? 
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Jul 30, 2015 00:36
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twistedmentat posted:By those people logic, all those lifetime movies about battered women exist because lifetime really loves seeing women raped and abused. Well, yeah.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:41
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Shut the gently caress up about game of thrones in the right wing media thread.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:43
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Doctor Butts posted:Shut the gently caress up about game of thrones in the right wing media thread. What would you do if they didn't, though?
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Jul 30, 2015 00:45
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/politics/john-boehner-speakership-mark-meadows/index.html apperently some conservatives are trying to oust bohnner again.
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Jul 30, 2015 00:51
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Dapper_Swindler posted:http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/politics/john-boehner-speakership-mark-meadows/index.html With how often this seems to have happened, I kind of wonder what the narrative is within the party. Do they hate the guy or not? For a party that is so united on many issues, they can't seem to decide how they feel about Boehner.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:01
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site posted:What does any of this have to do with right wing media? Because this thread cannot stop going off the rails this week.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:01
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ToastyPotato posted:With how often this seems to have happened, I kind of wonder what the narrative is within the party. Do they hate the guy or not? For a party that is so united on many issues, they can't seem to decide how they feel about Boehner. Well if none of them like him, but they can't agree why they dislike him, it can be hard to pick a successor to rally around.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:31
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Klaus88 posted:A tremendous amount of modern fantasy and scifi is pretty much right wing fan wank material and is somewhat valid discussion fodder for this thread? Most Military Sci-fi stuff might as well be written by RWM shitstains. It's just obscured because instead of black people they say Gizzorpazorps. To tie this in RWM, has O'reilly written any more Revenge fantasy books? The one they review on I Don't Even Own a Television is just insane. Thinly veiled version of Pappy Bear going around killing thinly veiled liberal media types, but its okay because you know, they said bad things about America not being perfect.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:41
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twistedmentat posted:Thinly veiled version of Pappy Bear going around killing thinly veiled liberal media types, but its okay because you know, they said bad things about America not being perfect. I forget who said it, but my favorite critique of that book was someone who said that only Bill O'Reilly could make his self-insert both the hero and villain
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Jul 30, 2015 01:42
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KiteAuraan posted:Because this thread cannot stop going off the rails this week. Would anyone like to see my ten paragraph essay on the ethics of grave desecration?
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Jul 30, 2015 01:45
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CommieGIR posted:Its Michael Bay, what more do you want to know? Given how much he's gone out of his way to avoid starring the titular characters in three different franchises (Transformers, TMNT, Godzilla), will the movie even take place in Benghazi? I'm actually expecting it to star his girlfriend again, and just be about Hillary- as a Whitehouse drama. Put me down for zero mention of the Libyans who tried to help stop it.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:28
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I don't think Michael Bay ever did anything with Godzilla.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:30
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Samuel Clemens posted:I don't think Michael Bay ever did anything with Godzilla. Whoops, my bad. I just remember being extremely pissed off all the way through for barely starring the monster, even with Ken Watanabe  in it.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:33
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Was Godzilla really that bad? I've heard very mixed reviews.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:34
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It's much closer in tone to the original Godzilla than to its sequels. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on what you want out of a monster movie.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:35
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Mister Macys posted:Given how much he's gone out of his way to avoid starring the titular characters in three different franchises (Transformers, TMNT, Godzilla), will the movie even take place in Benghazi? THat or the Lybians will be represented by one guy who get's heroically killed by the attackers. (Al-Qeada? I legit forgot) Or will be replaced by US military.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:36
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Samuel Clemens posted:It's much closer in tone to the original Godzilla than to its sequels. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on what you want out of a monster movie. Tokyo S.O.S. 2 - I want that. 
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Jul 30, 2015 02:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think the narrative matters though. The terrible things that happen to Dany have her at her lowest point, and eventually working her way up to her being a god queen. What has been happening to Sansa has been progressively denigrating her more and more. Uh, the Dany Drogo scene was never consensual. She was 12 years old in the books dude  Also the problem with the Sansa scene was people getting tired watching her have terrible things happen to her, since in the books she didn't get raped and was in fact actually starting to become more manipulative and in control. The rape scene was a lazy way to advance Theon's story arc while throwing Sansa's in the shitter. FourLeaf fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 02:52
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Drudge Report is once again only distinguishable from itself in 1999 by the broken jpgs.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:03
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Was Godzilla really that bad? I've heard very mixed reviews. It had flaws, but I don't think it was nearly as bad as people said. Most of the backlash seemed to be from fanboys who were mad that the monster didn't have much in common with the traditional Godzilla- it tended to dodge missiles while Godzilla usually just stands and takes it (though I imagine that was more because of technical limitations of filming a guy in a suit smashing a model). The only part I thought was really bad was the twenty minute Jurassic Park ripoff where they fight baby Godzillas that are basically raptors. Oh, and it was directed by the left-wing Michael Baby, Roland Emmerich, though I can understand why someone would get them mixed up. Edit: Or were we talking about the most recent Godzilla movie? I saw people saying "was Godzilla really that bad" and comparing it to a Michael Bay movie, and assumed we were talking about the '98 movie. Jurgan fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 03:11
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Jurgan posted:It had flaws, but I don't think it was nearly as bad as people said. Most of the backlash seemed to be from fanboys who were mad that the monster didn't have much in common with the traditional Godzilla- it tended to dodge missiles while Godzilla usually just stands and takes it (though I imagine that was more because of technical limitations of filming a guy in a suit smashing a model). The only part I thought was really bad was the twenty minute Jurassic Park ripoff where they fight baby Godzillas that are basically raptors. Oh, and it was directed by the left-wing Michael Baby, Roland Emmerich, though I can understand why someone would get them mixed up. They're talking about the newer Godzilla movie, I think. That one was alright, but the main character was bland as gently caress. Bryan Cranston and Ken Watanabe should have shared main character duties because each of their characters was far more interesting than 'generic soldier who needs to save his family'. Hell, the only memorable thing about the main character that I can remember is When he goes up to that officer and starts spouting off about how he knows how to disarm bombs, so should totally be put on this crucial (but stupid as gently caress) mission, and the officer just goes "Son, this is the US Military. We have a lot of people qualified for this, you're not special."
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Jul 30, 2015 03:18
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Jurgan posted:It had flaws, but I don't think it was nearly as bad as people said. Most of the backlash seemed to be from fanboys who were mad that the monster didn't have much in common with the traditional Godzilla- it tended to dodge missiles while Godzilla usually just stands and takes it (though I imagine that was more because of technical limitations of filming a guy in a suit smashing a model). The only part I thought was really bad was the twenty minute Jurassic Park ripoff where they fight baby Godzillas that are basically raptors. Oh, and it was directed by the left-wing Michael Baby, Roland Emmerich, though I can understand why someone would get them mixed up. The 2014 one, not the 1998 one. Which doesn't exist.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:18
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Going back away from GRRM and GoT talk... The latest news in the Planned Parenthood video situation is that StemExpress has obtained a TRO against the Center for Medical Progress preventing them from releasing any more video or documents from StemExpress until the case can be heard by the judge in the Los Angeles Superior Court. There's no word yet as to what the TRO actually prohibits (RWM/Blogosphere is reporting as if the Center for Medical Progress cannot make any statements, which would be a wildly overbroad ruling but not entirely out of the realm of possibility. More plausible is that they are banned from releasing any video or information related to the videotaped conversations and documents that StemExpress claims were provided by a former employee in breach of her nondisclosure agreement and constitute trade secrets), so expect this to develop more shortly. I find the videos and their reporting to be heinous bullshit by media that after O'Kefee and Breitbart (PBUH) ought to know better, but if it's a blanket gag any wider than release of the specific video and documents in the StemExpress complaint.... that'll get overturned by the weekend. As it should. Copy of the complaint via popehat: http://popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/StemExpress_Complaint.pdf I should note-so far as I'm aware, if these videos and/or documents currently in the hands of CMP happen to leak or mysteriously find their way to a secure dropbox or NewsCorp headquarters, the courts will not prevent them from being broadcast or disseminated further. So if you were wondering what was about to happen, it's totally that.
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