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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Knyteguy posted:




On top of all that my boss simply said that raises are delayed; not that I'm not getting one this year. There's still a chance and I'll bring it up once a month until I know more. I probably wrote "no raise this year" so that's my fault.

People can't tell if you're absentminded, evasive, or outright lying to cover your ego in this thread, and frankly when you come in and make a correction like this it makes me wonder where the lie is - in the original statement or the follow up.

If you want help you need to give us an accurate idea of your situation, but conveniently 'forgetting' things is a very bad habit you have.

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Robo Boogie Bot
Sep 4, 2011
Good luck with the budget, I think it's a little unrealistic in that you'll probably get through it but then costs well shoot up again in the following months to compensate. Hopefully the envelope system will ensure that it doesn't happen.

One thing that really bugged me though, get on your landlord to fix the air conditioning! You don't own the house. Repeat that twenty times if you need to. The AC being out in the summer in Nevada is akin to the furnace being out in the middle of winter in Wisconsin. You don't let them slide on that.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Breetai posted:

People can't tell if you're absentminded, evasive, or outright lying to cover your ego in this thread, and frankly when you come in and make a correction like this it makes me wonder where the lie is - in the original statement or the follow up.

If you want help you need to give us an accurate idea of your situation, but conveniently 'forgetting' things is a very bad habit you have.

I'm very absentminded, especially when I have to lay a hugely complex situation like my financial life (and often beyond that) out in text. Calling me a liar is a big leap there, and it's untrue. I don't understand why someone would lie about those stupid things anyway.

Robo Boogie Bot posted:

Good luck with the budget, I think it's a little unrealistic in that you'll probably get through it but then costs well shoot up again in the following months to compensate. Hopefully the envelope system will ensure that it doesn't happen.

One thing that really bugged me though, get on your landlord to fix the air conditioning! You don't own the house. Repeat that twenty times if you need to. The AC being out in the summer in Nevada is akin to the furnace being out in the middle of winter in Wisconsin. You don't let them slide on that.

Thank you. No I don't intend for costs to shoot up; I do expect to raise the budget to something more comfortable though. If the envelope system works well, then I'll go lower than what we had before, but higher than now. If it doesn't then I'll probably just raise the thing to our average spending over the past 6 months and use that.

Well the A/C just doesn't come in here through the vent. It's inefficient I think. It works well besides that (minus the thermostat "auto" not turning off the A/C, which I will be discussing with them).

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008

Knyteguy posted:

I'm very absentminded, especially when I have to lay a hugely complex situation like my financial life (and often beyond that) out in text. Calling me a liar is a big leap there, and it's untrue. I don't understand why someone would lie about those stupid things anyway.

Is your boss freezing raises? Or is the company you get contracted out to freezing wages and your boss is using that as an excuse to do the same?

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

Knyteguy posted:

Oh since every post of mine seems to have edits at the bottom which drives me nuts, I'm going to double post. My wife and I mailed out the car principal payment. $1,800.

I think THIS is a good sign. I hope that regardless of if you have $50 or $500 budgeted for restaurants, you continue to do debt paydowns/payments to savings/etc at the top of the month.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013
KG's boss must know where the bodies are buried.

Nobody gives a poo poo where you work. It's still possible to work out a basic outline of what you want and how to achieve it, without going into details that will dox you. A complete hand-wave and freezeout doesn't help you.

You're a slippery eel, dude. It doesn't matter if you don't do it on purpose. Truth is in action, not intention.

Inverse Icarus
Dec 4, 2003

I run SyncRPG, and produce original, digital content for the Pathfinder RPG, designed from the ground up to be played online.

Knyteguy posted:

I don't understand why someone would lie about those stupid things anyway.

People lie about stupid things all the time. Sometimes to themselves.

Tamarillo
Aug 6, 2009

Knyteguy posted:

I don't understand why someone would lie about those stupid things anyway.

Be honest your boss doesn't want to give you a raise because you whacked his wife in the head with a pan and wouldn't cook the zucchini the way you were told to.

Robo Boogie Bot
Sep 4, 2011

Tamarillo posted:

Be honest your boss doesn't want to give you a raise because you whacked his wife in the head with a pan and wouldn't cook the zucchini the way you were told to.

Oh man, I miss Benny. Now that I think of it, I wonder what Zuarg is up to these days.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Rudager posted:

Is your boss freezing raises? Or is the company you get contracted out to freezing wages and your boss is using that as an excuse to do the same?

Just imagine I work for the company that has the payroll freeze and everything makes sense.

My boss's company went under (basically) after spending over a hundred thousand dollars on a (basically) failed startup, so I started working for the other company in all but name. They pay my salary, my vacation and sick time, and they even pay rent on the office. Where I work is (basically) a branch of that company.

I didn't go work for that company in name because I asked about it in here, and we discussed it at length, and it was mutually agreed that it was a bad idea.

Can we move past the structure of the company I work for now? One of the reasons I haven't addressed it recently is because we've talked about it before

Old Fart posted:

KG's boss must know where the bodies are buried.

Nobody gives a poo poo where you work. It's still possible to work out a basic outline of what you want and how to achieve it, without going into details that will dox you. A complete hand-wave and freezeout doesn't help you.

You're a slippery eel, dude. It doesn't matter if you don't do it on purpose. Truth is in action, not intention.

Why don't you fill me in on what you're so upset about specifically?

Hawkgirl posted:

I think THIS is a good sign. I hope that regardless of if you have $50 or $500 budgeted for restaurants, you continue to do debt paydowns/payments to savings/etc at the top of the month.

Yeehaw. My net worth is better today than at any other point in the thread's history. We're up $10,000 in net worth from the lowest point of data that I have (the low point December 2014, the start of data is October 2014). All that through having a baby :D. Makes me wish we had been doing what we're doing since the start of the thread.

Tamarillo posted:

Be honest your boss doesn't want to give you a raise because you whacked his wife in the head with a pan and wouldn't cook the zucchini the way you were told to.

Robo Boogie Bot posted:

Oh man, I miss Benny. Now that I think of it, I wonder what Zuarg is up to these days.

Reference? I haven't heard of a Benny in here, but I'm curious.

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

Benny the snake right?

He was just completely inept. He needed professional help. He couldn't keep a restaurant cook job because while in training he didn't do something the way the owner told him to because he thought he had a better way. He didn't, and it didn't go well.

That ended in them quickly reducing his hours until he wasn't working there.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013

Knyteguy posted:

Why don't you fill me in on what you're so upset about specifically?
The dribbling of information, the lockout of discussion, and the inability to even figure out what it is you want, let alone take steps to get there.

It just feels like talking with you is like holding one of those water tube toy things. Or maybe I'm an rear end in a top hat. I dunno.

Colin Mockery
Jun 24, 2007
Rawr



It's not uncommon for you to say something (oftentimes something that irritates the thread) and then, afterwards, clarify what you mean by saying something that seems completely different and much less of a problem than the original statement.

You shuffle and hide purchases and budget amounts, even though you know the thread's only real purpose is literally to help you.

Often, the things you prioritize or talk about or plan today are completely different from what you planned a month ago and what you plan for a month from now and this is very frustrating for people who want a longer-term view of your goals, or at least some follow-through on your short-term goals.

Off the top of my head, here's some examples: your job search, your moving plans, the budget challenge, your career goals, your living situation (moving, etc), how you handle inconveniences (by throwing money you can't afford at the problem), and the month-long cycle of "I'm going to succeed at spending barely anything" -> "It's the end of the month but I had to go over, I will succeed next month at spending nothing".

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008

Knyteguy posted:

Just imagine I work for the company that has the payroll freeze and everything makes sense.

My boss's company went under (basically) after spending over a hundred thousand dollars on a (basically) failed startup, so I started working for the other company in all but name. They pay my salary, my vacation and sick time, and they even pay rent on the office. Where I work is (basically) a branch of that company.

I didn't go work for that company in name because I asked about it in here, and we discussed it at length, and it was mutually agreed that it was a bad idea.

Can we move past the structure of the company I work for now? One of the reasons I haven't addressed it recently is because we've talked about it before

I am completely loving lost here.

What company name is on your paystub?

MrEnigma
Aug 30, 2004

Moo!

Rudager posted:

I am completely loving lost here.

What company name is on your paystub?

I've taken this to mean that his Boss (here) pays him, so his boss's company name is on the check. The implied piece is that they pay exactly his wages/benefits/etc to his boss to pay him.

Which is why everyone is calling BS, because they can't understand how the boss wouldn't be making more than what he passes on (because of course he is).

Ultimately it sounds like the boss does 1099 contracting, but has a salary for him, and makes it easy by saying hey have the same benefits. (Of course the hole in that story is you wouldn't be able to get that companies group benefits....)

So now that I've tried to describe this, I realized I have no idea.

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008

MrEnigma posted:

I've taken this to mean that his Boss (here) pays him, so his boss's company name is on the check. The implied piece is that they pay exactly his wages/benefits/etc to his boss to pay him.

Which is why everyone is calling BS, because they can't understand how the boss wouldn't be making more than what he passes on (because of course he is).

Ultimately it sounds like the boss does 1099 contracting, but has a salary for him, and makes it easy by saying hey have the same benefits. (Of course the hole in that story is you wouldn't be able to get that companies group benefits....)

So now that I've tried to describe this, I realized I have no idea.

At least I'm not the only one, because this is exactly the train of though going through my mind trying to figure out and the same conclusion I keep coming back too is that KG is the one getting hosed over the hardest by all these people above him.

MrEnigma
Aug 30, 2004

Moo!
Also an anecdote so take it for what it's worth.

A court or of jobs ago, I had gotten a small normal yearly raise, and then a few months later my boss jumped a few of us up, like 15-20%.

One of my friends I biked with was in the same general department but not same specific team, while biking one day he remarks, man it really sucks that there is a company wide pay freeze and nobody got raises. So while that may be true, there are usually always exceptions.

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

This isn't specific to KG but why wouldn't you discuss your/their, the standard company level of pay with your peers? Seriously what the gently caress do you just love getting screwed by your bosses every year for raises or what?

My Rhythmic Crotch
Jan 13, 2011

Rudager posted:

I am completely loving lost here.

What company name is on your paystub?
I'm lost too - why are the company structure, how much the boss makes, or other bits of trivia being discussed here? We know his salary, his location, and his industry. We can deduct if he is under/overpaid from that. I don't care about much beyond that at my job, much less anyone else's. Was there something concrete you were going for?

Saros posted:

This isn't specific to KG but why wouldn't you discuss your/their, the standard company level of pay with your peers? Seriously what the gently caress do you just love getting screwed by your bosses every year for raises or what?
It doesn't matter what the company pays other people, it matters what the industry average is. If you are getting less than market rate, and management doesn't want to give you a raise, you're not going to suddenly get a raise by saying "well but you pay the other guys more than you pay me!". If the boss is honest, they'll say something like "we pay you what we think you're worth."

My Rhythmic Crotch fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jul 30, 2015

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

I'm lost too - why are the company structure, how much the boss makes, or other bits of trivia being discussed here? We know his salary, his location, and his industry. We can deduct if he is under/overpaid from that. I don't care about much beyond that at my job, much less anyone else's. Was there something concrete you were going for?

Becuase as far as I can tell, he's not getting a raise because the company that he gets contracted out too isn't giving out raises, but that shouldn't matter because he's not employed by them, he's employed by a company his boss owns.

In my opinion his boss is bullshitting him about why he can't get a pay rise, and KG is believing it.

Inept
Jul 8, 2003

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

If the boss is honest, they'll say something like "we pay you what we think you're worth."

More accurately "we pay you what we think we can get away with", at least in KG's case. Knowing peer salaries might not always give you a leg up, but they might let you know when you're being lied to.

Tamarillo
Aug 6, 2009

Knyteguy posted:

Reference? I haven't heard of a Benny in here, but I'm curious.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3531379

You're welcome.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

I'm lost too - why are the company structure, how much the boss makes, or other bits of trivia being discussed here? We know his salary, his location, and his industry. We can deduct if he is under/overpaid from that. I don't care about much beyond that at my job, much less anyone else's. Was there something concrete you were going for?

It doesn't matter what the company pays other people, it matters what the industry average is. If you are getting less than market rate, and management doesn't want to give you a raise, you're not going to suddenly get a raise by saying "well but you pay the other guys more than you pay me!". If the boss is honest, they'll say something like "we pay you what we think you're worth."

It's important because the safest way for KG to improve his financial situation is to obtain a raise in his current job. KG has been obtuse about a lot of his job for no particularly good reason. He could be giving a lot more clear details about how things are structured at job without risking being 'doxxed'. I frankly doubt anyone cares enough to bother with determining where exactly he works.

I would contend that 'industry average' is such a nebulous thing that it's not exactly a great figure to work off of. I am under the impression that this is KG's first 'real' job and he was coming from a place of very little experience. Despite what goons like to say about how any programmer should be making 100k+, I don't think that is based in reality. KG has spent a fair amount of time job hunting, and he has not been overwhelmed with great job offers.

I think it's totally reasonable for KG's boss to make money KG's work. I think it's also reasonable for KG to ask for a bigger piece of whatever that billing rate is. It's very easy to forget that KG's boss needs to pay for the office rent, benefits to employees, and lots of other misc costs.

What happened with the KGwife job thing? Is she taking it?

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Old Fart posted:

The dribbling of information, the lockout of discussion, and the inability to even figure out what it is you want, let alone take steps to get there.

It just feels like talking with you is like holding one of those water tube toy things. Or maybe I'm an rear end in a top hat. I dunno.

Alright thanks for letting me know. I actually usually tell this thread stuff before my wife even. You guys are my first resource. I'll see if I can work on those points though, as there's certainly times I communicate ineffectively. Again though I need to be cut some slack; it's tough especially when branches of conversation move forward more quickly than I can keep up.

Horking Delight posted:

It's not uncommon for you to say something (oftentimes something that irritates the thread) and then, afterwards, clarify what you mean by saying something that seems completely different and much less of a problem than the original statement.

You shuffle and hide purchases and budget amounts, even though you know the thread's only real purpose is literally to help you.

Often, the things you prioritize or talk about or plan today are completely different from what you planned a month ago and what you plan for a month from now and this is very frustrating for people who want a longer-term view of your goals, or at least some follow-through on your short-term goals.

Off the top of my head, here's some examples: your job search, your moving plans, the budget challenge, your career goals, your living situation (moving, etc), how you handle inconveniences (by throwing money you can't afford at the problem), and the month-long cycle of "I'm going to succeed at spending barely anything" -> "It's the end of the month but I had to go over, I will succeed next month at spending nothing".

I'd really like to focus a little more on the progress made so far, instead of the lack of progress elsewhere. I just wrote an $1,800 check towards debt reduction. That check saved us just about $636 in interest as opposed to not paying that and letting the loan go to term. That's more than my wife takes home for two weeks of work. I'm really happy with our progress actually.

I have a few priorities right now - I want to get this car paid off, I want to become a healthy individual again (and frankly I'm making some strides here!), and I want to start a business, and eventually a non-profit. I believe these goals have been consistent throughout the thread. The job stuff? A means to an end for me. I chased some bigger money, I couldn't find it, and here I am still. Frankly I don't have the will to use the time I do have to study to better my knowledge right now. When my wife and I have weekends off together and I'm not watching the baby by myself half my weekends? Hell yeah I can justify spending some time getting my career going.

I'm happy we moved out of that apartment, and I absolutely don't regret aiming high even if I come up short.

I'm going to stop there. I don't really know how to address most of the rest beyond saying I'm imperfect, but also happy with the progress we are making right now.


Job stuff: I'm the only developer between both companies. My boss is kind of sort of a developer, but as a VP of that other company he doesn't really do any developing at all unless there are complex relationships with AX tables and lookups or something, and even then he'll just mentor me. Their experienced network administrator was getting paid $50,000/yr, so I know I'm ahead of what he was. The reason he wants me working for him is because he feels that his startup still has merit, but he can't afford to invest on me working on it anymore. As far as I'm aware the only difference for him in me working for him vs me working for the company as the situation is now, is that he can use me for an hour here and there (which is seriously maybe once a month) for the tech support stuff, and to fix bugs that inevitably come up. That's my value in the arrangement for him. He has to cater hardcore to the small amount clients who want stuff fixed now.

The fact is - if he wanted to make money off of me contracting, he could bill me out for $150/hr all day long all week long and make him excellent money. He's playing the long game though; he feels that he can make more money off his startup than he will billing me out right now.

I'm really torn on leaving the company versus staying with it. The startup needs some marketing to get the word out there, but I also believe it has potential, and that's something that keeps me there. I enjoy the job, but I also understand that I'm underpaid. I think that fact is obvious since I got a job offer in a lower cost of living place for a higher salary.

I also feel like the raise stuff is small cookies compared to getting a new position. Not to be discounted, but not worth going to war over either. If he's lying to me then he'll lose me as an employee eventually. And I'm a good employee. Not irreplaceable, but you can bet it's going to be a lot of time and effort to hire someone new and to get them trained. I produce good work across multiple platforms in multiple languages (software, data, web, frontend, backend, mobile, DAX), I'm professional, I'm reliable, and I'm flexible. I can get something else, and he knows it (I mean a recruiter called the office looking for me). If there's truly a pay freeze, then it will clear up in time (and I'll be asking once a month), and I'll get at least a piece of what I deserve. If not? I feel it'll be a bigger headache for them than for me, and maybe the next guy will be better taken care of.

I hear you guys on the raise, and I agree. I think I have a pretty good approach to the problem there though (quitJob = patience == raise ? false : true;). Thoughts?


Ah yeah I sort of heard about this one. Cool I'll have to read through it.

n8r posted:

It's important because the safest way for KG to improve his financial situation is to obtain a raise in his current job. KG has been obtuse about a lot of his job for no particularly good reason. He could be giving a lot more clear details about how things are structured at job without risking being 'doxxed'. I frankly doubt anyone cares enough to bother with determining where exactly he works.

I would contend that 'industry average' is such a nebulous thing that it's not exactly a great figure to work off of. I am under the impression that this is KG's first 'real' job and he was coming from a place of very little experience. Despite what goons like to say about how any programmer should be making 100k+, I don't think that is based in reality. KG has spent a fair amount of time job hunting, and he has not been overwhelmed with great job offers.

I think it's totally reasonable for KG's boss to make money KG's work. I think it's also reasonable for KG to ask for a bigger piece of whatever that billing rate is. It's very easy to forget that KG's boss needs to pay for the office rent, benefits to employees, and lots of other misc costs.

What happened with the KGwife job thing? Is she taking it?

Well it's my first professional job yes.

I think I explained the billing rate stuff above. Let me know if I can answer more.

KGwife job: she interviewed this morning for it actually. It's looking good! I don't think they're interviewing anyone else, and they're going to move forward with a formal job description and a more formal interview (this one was held near my wife's workplace in a casual place, as they're getting rid of the employee she would be replacing, so it was a sensitive matter).


Now for real I put way too much effort writing up this post. If anyone asks me questions I've answered already here then I'm just going to quote this monstrosity! :arghfist:

e: clarification.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 31, 2015

slap me and kiss me
Apr 1, 2008

You best protect ya neck

Knyteguy posted:

I'm really torn on leaving the company versus staying with it. The startup needs some marketing to get the word out there, but I also believe it has potential, and that's something that keeps me there. I enjoy the job, but I also understand that I'm underpaid. I think that fact is obvious since I got a job offer in a lower cost of living place for a higher salary.

This startup ... have you and your boss written up a contract that sees you receive a material benefit in the event that it takes off (shares, bonuses, raises, etc), or are you just sticking here hoping that IF his startup takes off he'll start paying you more?

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
How is a raise small cookies? A 10% raise would be a 10% increase to your income with very minimal effort on your part. Why is this not something you should actively pursue? How many raises have you gotten since you have started working there? I think it's reasonable to expect that you've gotten at least a few especially if your abilities and job responsibilities have increased.

So your boss is a VP at the company you primarily work for, but he's got this side thing where he's trying to do a startup? You also mention that he's not investing at all at the startup, and he probably isn't working on it much himself since he's the VP at the other company? How exactly is this startup going to succeed if there is no funding and I'm guessing very little work being done on it. Also as Pfox has said, even if the startup does succeed - what rewards would you see from this.

I understand that you think you are underpaid, but how so? I know people here reviewed your resume and gave you a lot of good feedback. Why not work on composing a document that outlines why you deserve a raise and have people review it here. This whole job/raise thing feels a lot like many other discussions in this thread where you seem to be unwilling to take small incremental gains. A small raise will not have a huge effect on your finances, but it's better than nothing. If you took a 10% raise and threw it all at your car debt, it'd get paid off just that much faster.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
The way you've talked about your job doesn't make it sound anything like a startup. Startups grow fast or die trying. And a startup would give its sole developer a significant amount of equity in the company.

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008

Cicero posted:

The way you've talked about your job doesn't make it sound anything like a startup. Startups grow fast or die trying. And a startup would give its sole developer a significant amount of equity in the company.

And the guy who owns the startup wouldn't be working in a senior position at his main customer.

It sounds like KG's boss is the real winner here, he collects money for KG's work and this other person who works with KG, gets KG to supervise the other person, and doesn't really have to do much but collect the extra income.

BUG JUG
Feb 17, 2005



if he could contract you out for "$150/hr all day long all week long," why don't YOU contract yourself out for $150/hr? that's a cool $300k a year. or hell, cut your rate by a third and that's still $200k.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013
All of this seems like even more reason for more work at home, with him supplying extra monitors.

You act like you're disgusted by the idea of working remotely, but you also seem to have a list of problems with your commute. Do something about one or the other.

foxatee
Feb 27, 2010

That foxatee is always making a Piggles out of herself.
You guys need to stop fussing. He said he's happy with where they are right now, so let's just close the thread and have a beer. :cheers:

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Pfox posted:

This startup ... have you and your boss written up a contract that sees you receive a material benefit in the event that it takes off (shares, bonuses, raises, etc), or are you just sticking here hoping that IF his startup takes off he'll start paying you more?

No, and I don't expect anything really. He's told me that if this takes off that we'll both be wealthy enough to X, but I figure that's just sunshine up my rear end. I think if we hired some new developers I'd get a new position (senior dev or something I don't know), but I'm not counting on that either.

I like the work well enough is the biggest thing. It's a non-financial motivation.

Old Fart posted:

All of this seems like even more reason for more work at home, with him supplying extra monitors.

You act like you're disgusted by the idea of working remotely, but you also seem to have a list of problems with your commute. Do something about one or the other.

quote:

Secondly I would LOVE to work remotely more, but the fact is I don't have the setup for it. 1) my desk is falling apart (literally), 2) My computer is nearing 8 years old and it's becoming unreliable 3) I need another monitor 4) My chair is a piece of crap and it hurts my back 5) The air conditioning doesn't work in here and it's summer in the desert and 6) Due to all of these things my productivity sucks at home. I do Universal App work which means what I create and write takes up the entire screen. It's a huge pain in the rear end trying to debug stuff on a single monitor, among other programming/productivity tasks like using OneNote concurrently, and RDPing into client's VMs. It's as dreese and Cicero mentioned (btw dreese keep at it man! I'm cheering for you too.)

My commute doesn't really bother me. I run into time constraints, but hey my bike is ready, so hopefully that's not a big deal now.

n8r posted:

How is a raise small cookies? A 10% raise would be a 10% increase to your income with very minimal effort on your part. Why is this not something you should actively pursue? How many raises have you gotten since you have started working there? I think it's reasonable to expect that you've gotten at least a few especially if your abilities and job responsibilities have increased.

So your boss is a VP at the company you primarily work for, but he's got this side thing where he's trying to do a startup? You also mention that he's not investing at all at the startup, and he probably isn't working on it much himself since he's the VP at the other company? How exactly is this startup going to succeed if there is no funding and I'm guessing very little work being done on it. Also as Pfox has said, even if the startup does succeed - what rewards would you see from this.

I understand that you think you are underpaid, but how so? I know people here reviewed your resume and gave you a lot of good feedback. Why not work on composing a document that outlines why you deserve a raise and have people review it here. This whole job/raise thing feels a lot like many other discussions in this thread where you seem to be unwilling to take small incremental gains. A small raise will not have a huge effect on your finances, but it's better than nothing. If you took a 10% raise and threw it all at your car debt, it'd get paid off just that much faster.

Comparatively small cookies.

I'm underpaid because I make below average in the area. Also I got an offer for 20% more than what I'm making now, not taking into account the bonus, and sign on bonus. I turned down over $82,000 not including the bonus or 401k for the year of Aug2015-Aug2016 :smith:

I do agree it's better than nothing, but I asked about it, and I got told there's a payroll freeze at the moment. It is what it is for the moment.

The startup gets a ton of time spent on it, just not by me.

BUG JUG posted:

if he could contract you out for "$150/hr all day long all week long," why don't YOU contract yourself out for $150/hr? that's a cool $300k a year. or hell, cut your rate by a third and that's still $200k.

I'm not there yet. I can write the code, but AX is a very big ERP system, and half the battle at least is knowing the table relations, and what tables contain what data. Gotta know the clients too. My boss was a consultant for another firm, so he traveled around and built rapport with his now clients at his job.

It's awesomely good money sure, but I'm just not interested in doing AX consulting on my own right now. My boss worked solely in that for like 10-15 years, where I split my time between a bunch of stuff.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jul 31, 2015

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013

Knyteguy posted:

He's told me that if this takes off that we'll both be wealthy
So you've got shares or a partnership or whatever it is these things do? My primary experience is from watching Silicon Valley, so I'm not quite sure how it works. If not, even if it does take off, you ain't gettin' dick. At best you get some token gift.

Knyteguy posted:

I asked about it, and I got told there's a payroll freeze at the moment. It is what it is for the moment.
This from the same guy who said he'd give you a raise if you got an offer? The same guy who gets to enjoy the salary, health benefits, pension plan, stock options, and whatever else come with a corporate gig, and also gets to have a real nice expense report for his bosses because he's hired out such cheap labour outside of their system?

That carrot must sure look tasty.

But okay, there's a payroll freeze at a company where you're not an employee. This is when you negotiate non-financial benefits. This is when you lay out how when you joined up with him, the startup was about to go big, you didn't have experience, and you didn't have any home responsibilities. Today, the startup is on the back burner, you have a ton of experience, and you're starting a new family. There has got to be something that he can provide that will help your current situation. Time to think outside the goddamn box here. If he's as swell of a guy as you claim he is, he'll be willing to work with you.

Knyteguy posted:

The startup gets a ton of time spent on it, just not by me.
So what makes you think you'll reap the rewards? Either get actively involved, or get yourself hired at a higher rate by the parent company. If your boss is able to work there and still be a part of this vapourware startup, why can't you do the same?

Knyteguy posted:

I'm not there yet. I can write the code, but AX is a very big ERP system, and half the battle at least is knowing the table relations, and what tables contain what data. Gotta know the clients too.
Here's potentially something. If this dude wants you so involved in his business, and he's aware he can't pay you more, then it's time to start training you, and giving you time to learn new things.

I mean, it seems like you spend a fair bit of time at work posting on here, no? How about you increase your productivity and free up some time to do all this other poo poo that leads to the better money?

Plus, setting up a multi-monitor system is not that expensive. It's an easy write-off to get you set up with a loaner system to work at home more, so that you can be around your brand new child. I don't know much about business, but I worked for small firms that had to buy a bunch of poo poo at the end of every year to keep a certain tax status. There's room in the budget for a $400 display. Hell, throw it in with that startup so that you can actually work on the startup. From home.

I mean, gently caress, what's the point of working if not to create a better life for yourself? Negotiate that better life now.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013
At the VERY least, in lieu of a performance-based raise, you deserve to sit down with him and lay out a multi-year plan here. He's asking you to do a whole lot on faith here. What are his plans for his company, how do you factor into it, what are contingency plans, what will long-term compensation look like, and what do you need to do to get from here to there? You need this in writing, and you need to have a say in it.

You need something, dude.

foxatee
Feb 27, 2010

That foxatee is always making a Piggles out of herself.
RIP, KG.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Old Fart posted:

At the VERY least, in lieu of a performance-based raise, you deserve to sit down with him and lay out a multi-year plan here. He's asking you to do a whole lot on faith here. What are his plans for his company, how do you factor into it, what are contingency plans, what will long-term compensation look like, and what do you need to do to get from here to there? You need this in writing, and you need to have a say in it.

You need something, dude.

Hm. Alright I agree here. We had a sit down like this a long time ago, but it's been awhile.

I'm posting at work, so I'll get to your other points when I get home this evening, or tomorrow.

foxatee posted:

RIP, KG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI

Devious_05
Jul 3, 2007
It's very easy to justify staying at a poorly paid job when you're comfortable, know the work and dont have long hours. It's hard to get the motivation to have to learn something new, or potentially work harder or longer even if it is for more money. If you are tired from a baby as well, you may just want to keep the stability especially due to your recent drinking/smoking episodes. If you have to wait a few months to be in a better mental state to job hunt, dont feel bad about that.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Devious_05 posted:

It's very easy to justify staying at a poorly paid job when you're comfortable, know the work and dont have long hours. It's hard to get the motivation to have to learn something new, or potentially work harder or longer even if it is for more money. If you are tired from a baby as well, you may just want to keep the stability especially due to your recent drinking/smoking episodes. If you have to wait a few months to be in a better mental state to job hunt, dont feel bad about that.

Ah, yeah I'm pretty burnt out on looking for something new right this moment. I had an absurd amount of interviews in April, May, and June. I'm very likely going to wait.


Old Fart I still can't get to your post enough to hit the points; I'll do so tomorrow.


My mom didn't want to take that $390 for the vet bills today, after we talked quite a bit. I actually wrote her a check and insisted, but she tore it up. Not sure what to do with the money besides buying some pizza for everyone tomorrow (instead of paying my mom I offered to do this). That'll probably be like $35. It technically came from the emergency fund, but I put $350 back into the emergency fund this month to make up for that. Any ideas? My birthday is next weekend, so I was thinking $40 could go to that, and the rest to another car payment (which I'll probably hold off on doing until about the first of September). I was going to forego any birthday plans due to the vet bills.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013
To be clear, I'm not advocating marching into your boss' office and slamming your fist down while screaming, "This is bullshit!" I just want you to think a little bit about quality of life, and how you can be fairly compensated in ways that don't involve a raise. In your shoes I'd be deathly afraid about losing my job, so I wouldn't want to make waves either. I just think there has to be some way you can approach your boss like a bro and make a case for more benefits. Of course, it will also require you to step up your game and show how you're more valuable now than when you were first hired. But in order to do that, you really need to think about what you might want in the first place.

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BloodBag
Sep 20, 2008

WITNESS ME!



It's not like it was free money, just put it back where it came from. Not like I'm one to talk, I'm a loving moron with 'windfalls'. Don't do what I used to do and buy booze and drink it up.

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