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My ears perk up every time somebody says Hoshi now. That being the central theme also means in a big way Diebuster is a proto-TTGL, even if not all the cast returned to produce that work.
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Jul 30, 2015 05:34
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first episode clear. i've seen it before and i'm not a smart man so I don't have anything super smart to say, but I will say the backgrounds are super nice. also it's good. i'm looking forward to the OP, next episode.
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Jul 30, 2015 05:42
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Groovin' Magic
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Jul 30, 2015 05:45
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Cake Attack posted:Groovin' Magic
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Jul 30, 2015 05:47
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Just finished Episode 3, about to start 4. Rival girl wasn't my favorite character or anything but it was nice she had some development beyond "annoying rival girl" and got to pilot a cool robot.
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Jul 30, 2015 05:49
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OK, episode four was pretty loving awesome. Waiting 'til Friday is going to be hard, but I probably will. That moment when the Gunbuster music started playing when Nono rose up all crossed-arms awesome-posed? Fantastic. Fantastic like Goddrat. Lal'c was kind of a jerk to Nono, but she seems to realize it, and she tried to mend her ways, so I'll forgive her. Her "Just stay here!" was heartbreaking. This is a good show, and I'm sad I let naysayers put me off watching it after Gunbuster.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:01
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Yes_Cantaloupe posted:OK, episode four was pretty loving awesome. Waiting 'til Friday is going to be hard, but I probably will. I like that instead of being a perfect friend Lal'c is super flawed and really intent on keeping her outward cool and untouchable appearance, even if it hurts her friend, just because that's all she's known and has.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:02
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Sharkopath posted:I like that instead of being a perfect friend Lal'c is super flawed and really intent on keeping her outward cool and untouchable appearance, even if it hurts her friend, just because that's all she's known and has. Yes, I'm appreciating that a lot. If she keeps up this level of characterization, she's going to come out on top of Nono in my heart.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:09
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This really does seem to be a midpoint between FLCL and Gurren Lagann.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:10
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Ok yeah episode 4 was pretty awesome. This is way more accessible to a casual/non-fan watcher than Gunbuster.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:21
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One repeating motif I'd like to point out also is birds and nono's fascination with them. There's a lot of basic symbology stuff you can do with that idea and it representing a desire to live a free and normal life as a regular girl who still gets to be a hero, instead of her original intended purpose as one of the most powerful buster machines. I also like the very physical resemblance of birds and the actual flock that is the buster legion, the movement patterns they have as a group seem to be based on gigantic bird swarms, like starlings often form. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eakKfY5aHmY STARlings.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:30
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its shallow symbolism but its there, in aim for the top 2.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:35
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I like what they did with the music in ep 4. When the gravity well starts to awaken and the "legendary Buster machine" emerges, the drums of the Gunbuster march begins playing, but then it shifts into a more ominous tune once it becomes obvious that it's a loving space monster coming out of there. Makes it even cooler when the march plays properly with the arrival of Buster Machine #7.
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Jul 30, 2015 08:25
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I also like that without spelling it out to the viewer it's already pretty easy to guess at a little of what the deal is with the Twins calling the space monster a Topless as well as the Buster Legion having been trapping and attacking humanity for the past however many years/centuries/millennia.
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Jul 30, 2015 08:32
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GorfZaplen posted:That said I'm not enjoying it as much as I did Gunbuster, by this point. I can't quite pinpoint why because I like a lot of the individual elements of Diebuster a whole lot more so far. I didn't enjoy it because it feels extremely shallow, and Nono is a boring character. It's everything I don't like about sci-fi/mecha stuff, where the focus is on action and on racking up kills and increasing your power level through friendship or whatever. The action isn't even that great to boot because I really dislike blending CGI and animation (I absolutely love the Rebuild films but they do this a lot as well and it ticks me off!).
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Jul 30, 2015 13:59
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It's telling that the most of the people watching for the first time like whenever Diebuster recycles something from Gunbuster, because that's as good as it gets. I wonder why they even called this Gunbuster 2, since it is so tangentially related to Gunbuster. I guess it's supposed to signal the next "passing of the torch", welcoming the New Gainax but New Gainax was always a pale, hornier imitation of the people who made Gunbuster.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:02
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In Training posted:I didn't enjoy it because it feels extremely shallow, and Nono is a boring character. It's everything I don't like about sci-fi/mecha stuff, where the focus is on action and on racking up kills and increasing your power level through friendship or whatever. The action isn't even that great to boot because I really dislike blending CGI and animation (I absolutely love the Rebuild films but they do this a lot as well and it ticks me off!). It's actually way more focused on character interaction, which is why some people who didn't like gunbuster like diebuster more. The main heart of the work is the central relationship between nono and lal'c in a way that's a real advancement on how limited the character interaction in gunbuster is in comparison. Gunbuster is very focused on retelling Aim for the Ace but with robots so noriko's development is the absolute primary focus, and that arc is just mimicking Hiromi's struggle for inner strength. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 14:06
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In Training posted:It's telling that the most of the people watching for the first time like whenever Diebuster recycles something from Gunbuster, because that's as good as it gets. I wonder why they even called this Gunbuster 2, since it is so tangentially related to Gunbuster. I guess it's supposed to signal the next "passing of the torch", welcoming the New Gainax but New Gainax was always a pale, hornier imitation of the people who made Gunbuster. The stuff that's actually way more interesting is the times it begins to resonate with the story in gunbuster and then either ignores or inverts expectations. Tycho trying to force nono into a duel with worker machines to mimic gunbuster but nono outright ignoring it because she has more important work to do, in her mind.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:08
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quote:It's telling that the most of the people watching for the first time like whenever Diebuster recycles something from Gunbuster, because that's as good as it gets. Yeah I felt the same way. I think most of Diebuster is OK but the only time I felt the Gunbuster magic was when they referenced it in some way or gave it a nod. I'm open to the possibility that one some critical level Diebuster is better than Gunbuster but I just don't feel it.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:09
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Sharkopath posted:It's actually way more focused on character interaction, which is why some people who didn't like gunbuster like diebuster more. The main heart of the work is the central relationship between nono and lal'c in a way that's a real advancement on how limited the character interaction in gunbuster is in comparison. I guess I just don't find that central relationship very interesting. I find the psychologically torturous use of time travel in Gunbuster so much more fascinating, compared to Nono and Lal'C trying to be friends or whatever.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:11
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In Training posted:I guess I just don't find that central relationship very interesting. I find the psychologically torturous use of time travel in Gunbuster so much more fascinating, compared to Nono and Lal'C trying to be friends or whatever. Yah it basically lives or dies on the idea that you can find the budding friendship of two teenage girls to be interesting or not, I think that's a actually a big part of what causes this gun/die split in the first place. If I was allowed to speculate I'd say gunbuster's simpler characters allows people who watch it to project a more personal image on Noriko's struggles, where Diebuster has established characters that are different and more distinct from the viewer, if you can't form empathy from the start there's no empty gap to fill your feelings into.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:14
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:Yeah I felt the same way. I think most of Diebuster is OK but the only time I felt the Gunbuster magic was when they referenced it in some way or gave it a nod. I like Gunbuster a lot more but I don't think either is really a fantastic series, both feel like training grounds for the creative staff. So they're neat as time capsules but I don't think either is a particularly great work. They were both made over the course of 2 years and you can tell in that each episode is usually only tangentially related to what came before or after
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Jul 30, 2015 14:15
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In Training posted:I like Gunbuster a lot more but I don't think either is really a fantastic series, both feel like training grounds for the creative staff. So they're neat as time capsules but I don't think either is a particularly great work. They were both made over the course of 2 years and you can tell in that each episode is usually only tangentially related to what came before or after The themes and symbolism in diebuster are actually layered over every single episode and tie events to the past and future in really cool ways actually, is what I'm discovering on this rewatch.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:16
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Sharkopath posted:Yah it basically lives or dies on the idea that you can find the budding friendship of two teenage girls to be interesting or not, I think that's a actually a big part of what causes this gun/die split in the first place. If I was allowed to speculate I'd say gunbuster's simpler characters allows people who watch it to project a more personal image on Noriko's struggles, where Diebuster has established characters that are different and more distinct from the viewer, if you can't form empathy from the start there's no empty gap to fill your feelings into. I don't think Gunbuster has simpler characters, I think they're all fairly simple. I mean Noriko has a dead father and that guides the rest of the life. Nono wants to shoot stuff in space, that's it.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:16
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Lal'cs opening soliloquy, Nono's fascination with birds, the stars as physical objects and an ideal to reach for, the creation of miracles when the impossible can be accomplished, all have an overarching omnipresence that starts from episode 1 and had to be written with the run of the whole series in mind.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:18
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In Training posted:I like Gunbuster a lot more but I don't think either is really a fantastic series, both feel like training grounds for the creative staff. So they're neat as time capsules but I don't think either is a particularly great work. They were both made over the course of 2 years and you can tell in that each episode is usually only tangentially related to what came before or after I feel this is far more true of Gunbuster, more specifically episodes 5 and 6. 1-4 were about Noriko overcoming various problems both internal and external in order to find her inner strength, but after that's done the last two episodes have to introduce a new threat because the core of the story up to that point is done. I'm fairly certain they originally thought they would only get 4 episodes, and you can really tell if you look for it.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:19
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In Training posted:It's telling that the most of the people watching for the first time like whenever Diebuster recycles something from Gunbuster, because that's as good as it gets. I wonder why they even called this Gunbuster 2, since it is so tangentially related to Gunbuster. I guess it's supposed to signal the next "passing of the torch", welcoming the New Gainax but New Gainax was always a pale, hornier imitation of the people who made Gunbuster.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:21
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In Training posted:I don't think Gunbuster has simpler characters, I think they're all fairly simple. I mean Noriko has a dead father and that guides the rest of the life. Nono wants to shoot stuff in space, that's it. Nono has a multiple conflicting desires to live life as a normal girl, become a hero to protect the people like her idol, and her actual subconscious function as the ultimate weapon developed in an early era after the defeat of the space monster fleet. She's simple minded and scatter brained but has an impregnable willpower and belief that all things are obtainable with enough effort, to the point of impossibility. She wants to be loved and acknowledged to the point that she's willing to go to the actual end of the solar system for a chance to be seen as an equal by the people she admires. There's a lot of stuff with her character that's layered on more deeply than that, and diebuster is a simple show at it's heart so it's pretty hard to miss.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:24
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Nate RFB posted:I know people have soured on it now since present-day Gainax is so bad, but "New Gainax" in the post-Diebuster years led to TTGL which was immensely popular at the time. There was absolutely a feeling that the studio had turned the corner at last before it was revealed that Imaishi was all smoke and mirrors with regards to talent. Yeah TTGL is exactly what I was thinking of, haha. I'm not a very big fan of that show either.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:25
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maybe the next simulwatch should be gainax classic magical shopping arcade abenobashi
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Jul 30, 2015 14:34
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I really do like both series about equally. I love Gunbuster's harder sci-fi concepts with time dillation, Norio Wakamoto, the general 80's-ness of it all, and the ending which is one of the most memorable ones in anime IMO. Diebuster has probably my favorite character of the two in Nono and I think her dynamic with Lal'c is more interesting/endearing than Noriko/Kazumi and with a few exceptions the action scenes in Die entertain me a bit more. And I still think Die ep 4 is the best overall episode of the set of 12, easily. They are both good, in their own ways.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:35
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Nono is great but I have problems with Lal C. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:37
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Nate RFB posted:I really do like both series about equally. I love Gunbuster's harder sci-fi concepts with time dillation, Norio Wakamoto, the general 80's-ness of it all, and the ending which is one of the most memorable ones in anime IMO. Diebuster has probably my favorite character of the two in Nono and I think her dynamic with Lal'c is more interesting/endearing than Noriko/Kazumi and with a few exceptions the action scenes in Die entertain me a bit more. And I still think Die ep 4 is the best overall episode of the set of 12, easily. They are both good, in their own ways. Yeah I agree with this pretty much.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:40
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In Training posted:I like Gunbuster a lot more but I don't think either is really a fantastic series, both feel like training grounds for the creative staff. So they're neat as time capsules but I don't think either is a particularly great work. They were both made over the course of 2 years and you can tell in that each episode is usually only tangentially related to what came before or after I feel like maybe you should finish diebuster before having this convo so you can fully discuss it and gunbuster imo It's only like another 80 minutes or so and then you'll have experienced everything there is to know about it to argue your points on, who knows, maybe it'll open up to you, or maybe it'll strengthen your previous stance
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Jul 30, 2015 15:15
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He seen it before.
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Jul 30, 2015 15:16
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Captain Invictus posted:I feel like maybe you should finish diebuster before having this convo so you can fully discuss it and gunbuster imo This is the third time I seen it. Well, 2.5 times haha.
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Jul 30, 2015 15:19
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Davincie posted:maybe the next simulwatch should be gainax classic magical shopping arcade abenobashi Sounds sick
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Jul 30, 2015 15:20
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In Training posted:This is the third time I seen it. Well, 2.5 times haha. Oh hah alrighty then
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Jul 30, 2015 19:58
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gunbuster episodes 1-3 are really bad there's all sorts of cool characters, sci-fi stuff and concepts that have to be pushed to the side because noriko is the main character even though she's trash garbage it's nothing but "I'm going to train harder so I don't suck so bad" "Oh no, even after all my training I still suck really bad" and "I have a crush on senpai get it it's like that tennis anime" over and over and over broken up by the odd cheesecake scene or fleeting reference to a way cooler idea than noriko doing pushups in a robot like 4-6 are an inverse of how poo poo 1-3 are and are insanely good but idk how anyone can say the first half of gunbuster is better than diebuster when they're basically the exact same thing (girl who sucks at life never gives up on trying to stop sucking, meanwhile people who don't suck fight stuff while in giant robots) only diebuster has better animation, a main character who doesn't bitch the entire time, and way more engaging action scenes
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Jul 30, 2015 20:07
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darealkooky posted:gunbuster episodes 1-3 are really bad Hell farking yeah I do believe that this is the legendary "GO TIME" 
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Jul 30, 2015 20:32
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