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Teenage Fansub posted:Spend a buck and find out https://www.comixology.com/Suicide-Squad-1987-1992-1/digital-comic/31707?ref=c2VyaWVzL3ZpZXcvZGVza3RvcC9ncmlkTGlzdC9Jc3N1ZXM Do sales on Comixology, when they happen, generally cover older stuff like this too?
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Jul 30, 2015 13:50
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Mimir posted:Do sales on Comixology, when they happen, generally cover older stuff like this too? Yeah, they can, eg the old Teen Titans stuff was on sale recently, as was Crisis on Infinite Earth.
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Jul 30, 2015 13:57
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Yeah. When they're related to something they wanna promote. There were a pile of old, rare series getting digital releases and sales with Convergence and the DC You launches. The best part of Convergence was being able to buy Kyle Baker's Plastic Man  Suicide Squad was on a dollar sale less than a year ago and probably will be again in time for the movie. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 14:01
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I never really saw Waller as fat, more that she was built like the lovechild of a linebacker and a brick shithouse. I mean she wrestled Granny Goodness once.
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Jul 30, 2015 14:41
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Fuckstick Electric posted:Is there a reason for the obsession with Waller being overweight? Coming from someone on neither side of the fence it seems odd to pigeon-hole a character who, as I understand it, is almost sociopathic and pursuant to her ideologies which I'd assume also meant being as physically fit as possible. But then again I really don't have the history with the character so I'm genuinely curious. Through the first N52 Suicide Squad series revealed this was the case, on the zero issue I believe. Another crucial difference with the N52 version is that she was an active field agent before becoming the handler of the Squad giving another reason for her fitness. I utterly loathed the older version but I really liked how she was handled on the N52.
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Jul 30, 2015 15:29
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Travis343 posted:e: AND she did all that without falling into the 'sassy thick black lady' cliche. Goddamn Ostrander was the man.
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Jul 30, 2015 15:36
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Picklepuss posted:I never knew much about the character but the negative reaction to her slimming down always made me wonder if that cliche was what defined her, which put me off. I'm glad to learn there's more to her than that.  ) she is, is a key part of it.
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Jul 30, 2015 15:40
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Ostrander really did a lot to humanize Waller (something the current Suicide Squad doesn't seem to care about). She has her own little origin issue, and in that issue it explains how this dumpy, mean women became who she was. Make no mistake Waller is someone who will do anything to get what she wants, but in the origin story you find out why. She is a unique character because she is just a regular person who through cunning (and gently caress you Nu-Suicide Squad for making her a team leader) and smarts managed to stand up to Batman, control a bunch of egotistical sociopaths, and play a political game at the same time. On youtube, someone compiled a clip of some of Waller's best moments in the Justice League cartoon. Give it a watch.
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Jul 30, 2015 15:51
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^^ That video is painful to watch with the 'witty' WMM commentary inter-titles. Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I utterly loathed the older version but I really liked how she was handled on the N52. I'd make a glib comment, but instead I'll risk engaging and simply ask... why? What was gained by the N52 revamp that balances what was lost in terms of diversity of appearance, age and background in the old one? Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 15:52
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Gaz-L posted:I'd make a glib comment, but instead I'll risk engaging and simply ask... why? What was gained by the N52 revamp that balances what was lost in terms of diversity of appearance, age and background in the old one? Simple, the stories I read of preN52 Waller always depicted her as a bureaucrat always getting in the way of the heroes from the comfort of her office and always being a step ahead of everyone else. N52 Waller gets her hands dirty on the field and is fallible making her more appealing to me.
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Jul 30, 2015 16:15
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Simple, the stories I read of preN52 Waller always depicted her as a bureaucrat always getting in the way of the heroes from the comfort of her office and always being a step ahead of everyone else. In the pre-52 Waller ended up going to prison because she got her hands so dirty.
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Jul 30, 2015 16:16
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:N52 Waller gets her hands dirty on the field and is fallible making her more appealing to me.
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Jul 30, 2015 16:18
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redbackground posted:You obviously didn't read the entire 2nd half of Osty's SS (which also takes place after she's been in prison for an entire year). I started reading comics seriously after Sinestro Corps War so no, I never read those stories and the Waller appearances I read in the interim of SCW and N52 never gave me any motivation to track any of her previous appearances.
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Jul 30, 2015 16:21
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I started reading comics seriously after Sinestro Corps War so no, I never read those stories and the Waller appearances I read in the interim of SCW and N52 never gave me any motivation to track any of her previous appearances. Then you kind of need to stop acting like you're talking about the character instead of "lovely versions of the character written by bad writers." I would figure as a Jason Todd fan you would be aware of this. Picklepuss posted:I never knew much about the character but the negative reaction to her slimming down always made me wonder if that cliche was what defined her, which put me off. I'm glad to learn there's more to her than that. The negative reaction to her slimming down is because it takes a cool and distinctive character visual which fits the character excellently well (she isn't 'fat', she is huge in the same way that Kingpin is huge.Some of that is weight but a lot of it is just that she is built like a literal wall) and removes that in favor of making her sexy because comic book artists can't seem to draw any character that isn't a 20-something supermodel or a grizzled older man. It helped a lot that yes, she was a portrayal of a woman who wasn't a supermodel and still was respected, feared and presented as capable. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 16:32
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I just finished 52 and Waller comes off as the hugest rear end in a top hat in that. "This former villain says he's reformed but I don't believe it, so let me ruin his family life just because."
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Jul 30, 2015 16:57
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Look at it this way: Marvel has Nick Fury, whose primary reference point for superheroes is Captain America, so he may think they're naive or too good to do what needs to be done, but he knows they're good people. Waller's main reference point is Batman. A guy so suspicious of even space alien Midwestern Jesus that he keeps a lump of poison rock in a safe so he can kill him if need be.
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Jul 30, 2015 16:59
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Cyphoderus posted:I just finished 52 and Waller comes off as the hugest rear end in a top hat in that. "This former villain says he's reformed but I don't believe it, so let me ruin his family life just because." This was the reason I decided I wouldn't care for that version of Waller at all. ImpAtom posted:Then you kind of need to stop acting like you're talking about the character instead of "lovely versions of the character written by bad writers." I would figure as a Jason Todd fan you would be aware of this. I'm not talking about the character though, I talking about why I don't like that version.
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Jul 30, 2015 17:07
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Read Ostrander's Suicide Squad, Dark_Tzitzimine
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Jul 30, 2015 17:13
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Fuckstick Electric posted:Is there a reason for the obsession with Waller being overweight? Coming from someone on neither side of the fence it seems odd to pigeon-hole a character who, as I understand it, is almost sociopathic and pursuant to her ideologies which I'd assume also meant being as physically fit as possible. But then again I really don't have the history with the character so I'm genuinely curious. New 52 Amanda Waller is a complete gutting of the character. She became another field agent put into a desk job that she never could really manage. The original Waller never did field work, but she knew of loss (she lost her two oldest children and husband to gang wars) and that loss drove her anger and her push for change with looser ethics. I can't imagine New 52 Amanda Waller being able to stand up to Batman and tell him off with no fear in her eyes, able to keep dangerous criminals like Deadshot in line and be an imposing force in government all around. Her appearance was never mocked, never made into a joke - it actually accentuated her force by calling her The Wall. Arrow's depiction of Amanda Waller fell in line with the New 52, but they did it slightly better by convincing me that she could handle dangerous criminals without being threatened by them. I'm glad DC is attempting to undo the damage with her Suicide Squad movie counterpart being clearly more in line with Ostrander's original, but in the comics it may already be too late for that.
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Jul 30, 2015 17:22
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Hakkesshu posted:There are no fat black ladies in comics, she is one. As long as she doesn't look perplexed making a loud 'UMM-HMMMMM' sound or doing a reverse kiss sound ill be happy.
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Jul 30, 2015 17:50
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I'm not talking about the character though, I talking about why I don't like that version. You didn't read that version. That's the point I'm making. You know how you talk about how a writer you dislike does a poor job with Jason and misunderstands the character? Now imagine if you were going "Well, Jason is a lovely character. I mean I didn't read the literal defining run of the character but I read this bad writer's take so I know they suck."
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Jul 30, 2015 18:00
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ImpAtom posted:You didn't read that version. That's the point I'm making. You know how you talk about how a writer you dislike does a poor job with Jason and misunderstands the character? So 52 is a poor representation of Waller? In any case, I see the characters according to their continuity. So while I think Morrison did a really lovely work with Jason, is still the pre N52 version of Jason with all the baggage it entails. N52 Jason is other character with different background and if I'm very critical of Tynion's work with him is because he blatanly ignores the character development and background set by Lobdell. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 18:02
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:So 52 is a poor representation of Waller? Yes. There are things to praise about 52 but it absolutely runs into the problem of doing a poor job with characters and Amanda Waller is a character it is very easy to do a poor job with because she thrives on nuance. That is part of why the Suicide Squad run was so good because characters didn't fall into easy niches (aside from like Captain Boomerang whose entire role was being an rear end in a top hat) and it humanizes characters and shows they are not one-note assholes. There are a lot of bad Amanda Waller stories because writers love to throw her into the role of Government Hardass because she is recognizable. However if a writer actually takes the time to do good with her she is a well-written character who fills an important niche. I mean I'd say read Suicide Squad not just because of Waller but because it is very good. You may not even like Waller after reading it but the book itself is top notch. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 18:06
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With DC's most recent launch being heavily concerned with mending fences, I really don't know why they continue to double down on thin Waller and NuLobo. I have never in my life seen someone cop to preferring either to the original.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:Yes. There are things to praise about 52 but it absolutely runs into the problem of doing a poor job with characters and Amanda Waller is a character it is very easy to do a poor job with because she thrives on nuance. That is part of why the Suicide Squad run was so good because characters didn't fall into easy niches (aside from like Captain Boomerang whose entire role was being an rear end in a top hat) and it humanizes characters and shows they are not one-note assholes. Maybe after the movie is released, I don't have a big interest on any of the SS characters  Just found this photo that for some reason is cracking me up 
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Jul 30, 2015 18:22
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Are you saying that because Waller was written badly in 52 (years after her defining stories in one of the best written comics in the history of DC) you needed a continuity reboot to enjoy the character? Like you go on and on about how Tynion was so awful at writing Jason but you are still reading the character by other writers. You're not waiting for another reboot to see if Jason is better handled this time.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:31
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Maybe after the movie is released, I don't have a big interest on any of the SS characters Jim Lee is starting to look a little haggard. Must be rough putting up with Didio's poo poo every day.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:33
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Travis343 posted:Are you saying that because Waller was written badly in 52 (years after her defining stories in one of the best written comics in the history of DC) you needed a continuity reboot to enjoy the character? Like you go on and on about how Tynion was so awful at writing Jason but you are still reading the character by other writers. You're not waiting for another reboot to see if Jason is better handled this time. I do think N52 Jason is the best version of the character and that pre reboot he was on a creative dead end though.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:33
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My first exposure to Waller was in the Justice League cartoon. Even if it was muted compared to the comic book version you certainly got the impression that the woman meant business and all the heroes knew it.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:36
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Maybe after the movie is released, I don't have a big interest on any of the SS characters Is that JR Jr? He seems kinda out of place and also seems like he hasn't aged since I saw him in the 90s. Maybe it's not him, if not who is it? Edit: I guess if it's a superman creatives photo shoot he makes sense but Snyder barely fits with his Unchained  vvv I'm positive it's JR Jr. vvv Shawn fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 18:40
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I see Johns, Morrison, Didio, Lee and Snyder, but who is the guy standing between Morrison and Didio?
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Jul 30, 2015 18:45
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I shouldn't judge but it's like a group photo of the dudebros my brother goes to strip clubs with.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:48
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Wait, can we roll back a bit? What are these *good* Jason Todd stories people keep mentioning? Or is it purely hypothetical because I've never read anything good with him. That includes when Morrison wrote him.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:57
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Maybe after the movie is released, I don't have a big interest on any of the SS characters So before any film you have ever watched, you have had to have an interest in the characters before you watched it? that's pretty retarded.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:00
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:So before any film you have ever watched, you have had to have an interest in the characters before you watched it? that's pretty retarded. Pretty much yeah. Is the same with any other of media actually, if I don't find a character/actor (or in some cases) premise appealing, I won't bother to consume it. Endless Mike posted:Wait, can we roll back a bit? The Under the Red Hood movie is one, RHATO is another. As Robin there's the Cult and the story about the Diplomat's Son Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 19:09
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Endless Mike posted:Wait, can we roll back a bit? Death in the Family. Actually Todd was used quite effectively in Batman: Cult and Superman: For the Man who has everything.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:12
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Selected parts of Loeb's RHATO was alright, certainly a better Jason than Morrison's absolute bullshit run on & Robin. Under The Hood is probably my favorite post death Jason story. Everyone forgets Robin was in For The Man Who Has Everything, much less that he was Jason, but that was cool too. I think he also had a great scene in a fight with Darksied's forces at one point? I don't remember too well. I still need to read Cult.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:19
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Remember that time Batman told Superman that the last time he inspired people was when he was dead (and possibly dropped the mic after saying that). I wish he said the same thing to Jason Todd.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:51
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Jason is really, really cool, he's just usually in the right hands. DC needs to let me write him, right after they accept my proposal for a Batman/Superman arc that shifted the focus towards Russia's greatest heroes, the KGBeast and the human Zod.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:54
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Madkal posted:
Both of these are great stories but you'd lose nothing in either of them by making Robin Dick or Tim instead of Jason.
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Jul 30, 2015 20:53
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