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SubG posted:But all that diffusion is almost entirely at the surface as well. Ever cured a piece of meat? Observed how you can literally pack a piece of meat in salt and yet it still takes weeks or months to dry out? That's because the diffusion of salt through the meat is that slow. And salt is pretty small and well-behaved so those Na+s and Cl-s get transported about as well and as quickly as anything will. Certainly more quickly than any bigass organosulfur compounds (like you get out of aliums) or god help you diterpenoids (from e.g. rosemary or some of the fat-soluble poo poo in the meat). So no, really, all that diffusion is primarily a surface phenomenon. I mean yeah, what you're saying makes sense, but you also cure meat in a dry environment, not a wet one. Not to mention that curing happens between 45 and 60F, whereas sous vide is 120-150F. Transfer of fat soluble compounds certainly happens much faster at higher temperatures, infused oils and whatnot. You can even SV some fatback with your aromatics and salt to have a quick 1 day lardo, as opposed to waiting a week. Not trying to throw around science-y arguments, this is just literally my experience with cooking, and I'm sure it's all been tested and documented somewhere.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:01
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I'm glad I have this thread some life, for better or worse. Thanks for all the comments and interesting info behind it. I might just keep it simple with the seasoning in the bag and then apply a little bit more before trying out the charcoal chimney approach for searing the meat. Going for an Argentinian style steak with chimichurri sauce.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:34
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:I mean yeah, what you're saying makes sense, but you also cure meat in a dry environment, not a wet one. Not to mention that curing happens between 45 and 60F, whereas sous vide is 120-150F. Transfer of fat soluble compounds certainly happens much faster at higher temperatures, infused oils and whatnot. You can even SV some fatback with your aromatics and salt to have a quick 1 day lardo, as opposed to waiting a week. Chef De Cuisinart posted:Not trying to throw around science-y arguments, this is just literally my experience with cooking, and I'm sure it's all been tested and documented somewhere. And hey, new title, sweet.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:36
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So I have done flank for 24hrs and 8hrs, and I definitely preferred the 24hr cook. What is the recommended time on skirt?
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Jul 24, 2015 17:47
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Random Hero posted:So I have done flank for 24hrs and 8hrs, and I definitely preferred the 24hr cook. What is the recommended time on skirt? What temperature were you using, and was it the same in both the 8 and 24 hour cooks?
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Jul 25, 2015 03:14
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SubG posted:But all that diffusion is almost entirely at the surface as well. Ever cured a piece of meat? Observed how you can literally pack a piece of meat in salt and yet it still takes weeks or months to dry out? That's because the diffusion of salt through the meat is that slow. And salt is pretty small and well-behaved so those Na+s and Cl-s get transported about as well and as quickly as anything will. Certainly more quickly than any bigass organosulfur compounds (like you get out of aliums) or god help you diterpenoids (from e.g. rosemary or some of the fat-soluble poo poo in the meat). So no, really, all that diffusion is primarily a surface phenomenon. This is dead wrong, curing takes that long because of the drying process not because of salt transport, which happens incredibly fast. The actual curing process only takes a day to a week to finish depending on the size of the meat, the rest is drying, if it actually took a month for the salt and nitrite to transport you'd be loving dead. Seriously gently caress off with your "I'm going to read a straw man into this four word statement so I can wave my scientific dick around and distract everyone with the fact my advice was wrong". I paraphrased the article from memory and forgot it was the herbs and not the meat that was the issue, the point was don't put butter in the bag. My scientific training may not be as good as yours but its good enough to spot a jackass who's very good a one field or another so thinks he knows everything about everything and uses bluster and jargon to bludgeon people who don't know any better into thinking they know what they're talking about.
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Jul 25, 2015 15:38
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What is peoples preference for steak times/temps/cuts? I'm wondering if 131f is too high when aiming for medium rare. It says on serious eats not to cook for more than 2 and a half hours if under 130f but I can't find out why
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Jul 25, 2015 20:27
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Jose posted:What is peoples preference for steak times/temps/cuts? I'm wondering if 131f is too high when aiming for medium rare. It says on serious eats not to cook for more than 2 and a half hours if under 130f but I can't find out why I generally go for like 132-134 depending on how I'm feeling. And you don't go longer than that under 130 because of bacteria. IIRC food doesn't Pasteurize below 130.
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Jul 25, 2015 20:39
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Jarmak posted:This is dead wrong, curing takes that long because of the drying process not because of salt transport, which happens incredibly fast. The actual curing process only takes a day to a week to finish depending on the size of the meat, the rest is drying, if it actually took a month for the salt and nitrite to transport you'd be loving dead.  Note that this is for salt in a wet brine, not a rub (as noted in the text). The reason why food safety isn't an issue is because (assuming you're using a properly-prepared piece of meat from a healthy animal) spoilage is going to happen, just like curing, from the surface in. Jarmak posted:Seriously gently caress off with your "I'm going to read a straw man into this four word statement so I can wave my scientific dick around and distract everyone with the fact my advice was wrong". I paraphrased the article from memory and forgot it was the herbs and not the meat that was the issue, the point was don't put butter in the bag. My scientific training may not be as good as yours but its good enough to spot a jackass who's very good a one field or another so thinks he knows everything about everything and uses bluster and jargon to bludgeon people who don't know any better into thinking they know what they're talking about.
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Jul 25, 2015 21:13
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SubG posted:Drying time is certainly a factor, but unless you're talking about a relatively thin cut of meat diffusion of salt will take longer than a day or so at curing temperatures. The process is wildly nonlinear and is dependent on temperature and the molecule being transported, but in any event, the rate of transport drops off fairly rapidly. Here's a graph of salt diffusion distance from a guy who actually did some experiments on the subject (all the journal articles I turned up from a quick search are behind paywalls): 24 hours is for something like tasso, tocino, duck breast or sausage, things like brisket or bacon take a week (sometimes 10 days). The longest part of the curing process is the drying, not the salt transport, you don't even hang the stuff until its fulled cured. That link stops at 24 hours so its pretty useless for this discussion, also he's talking about brining, which is a super inefficient method of curing because of equilibrium issues with the solution unless you continuously add more salt (which you know you're supposed to do if you're trying to cure something big with salt in a brine, and he didn't), not to mention you said "packed in salt" which is how I do all of my cured products. I have journal access
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Jul 25, 2015 23:28
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I'm reading that salting before sous viding is a generally bad idea. What are the rules of thumb here? I just dropped an eye of round roast in that I salted like I would if I was going to actually roast it, how hosed is it?
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Jul 26, 2015 22:07
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I always have bag juice and salting doesn't seem to affect the amount but the salt is absolutely absorbed into the meat
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Jul 26, 2015 22:34
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baquerd posted:I'm reading that salting before sous viding is a generally bad idea. What are the rules of thumb here? I just dropped an eye of round roast in that I salted like I would if I was going to actually roast it, how hosed is it?
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Jul 27, 2015 03:11
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What do you all recommend for chicken? this is just under a pound of chicken tenders (bought in error.) 144F for two hours. They're oddly textured... slightly stringy. My torching method needs work, but that's not to blame here. One of the tenders on this plate was exactly how I wanted it, the others seemed just a bit too soft. I didn't take any during-cook photos but they were sort of wadded up. Maybe this tender that tasted perfect had a different level of exposure to the water.   <edit> ALSO... if I try something with bones/cartilage/skin... How should I cook differently?
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Jul 27, 2015 03:12
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When you do lower temperatures with breast meat I've found you get that softer juicier texture some people dislike.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:16
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WhiteHowler posted:I've done steaks both with and without salting before bagging, and I haven't found that it changes the flavor too much versus salting right before searing. It'll be tasty. If you do the right amount of salt far enough ahead it will have the same protein denaturation effect from brining (or even closer to curing, depending on concentration). Some people don't like this, I for one like to salt my steaks for at least 24 hours because I like the slightly cured flavor/texture.
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Jul 27, 2015 04:49
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meh.com (the original woot people) has a refurb vacuum sealer today for $15. https://meh.com
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Jul 27, 2015 05:14
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Crusty Nutsack posted:meh.com (the original woot people) has a refurb vacuum sealer today for $15. https://meh.com Sure why not
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Jul 27, 2015 06:18
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Crusty Nutsack posted:meh.com (the original woot people) has a refurb vacuum sealer today for $15. https://meh.com Thank you, ordered
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Jul 27, 2015 07:02
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Jarmak posted:24 hours is for something like tasso, tocino, duck breast or sausage, things like brisket or bacon take a week (sometimes 10 days). The longest part of the curing process is the drying, not the salt transport, you don't even hang the stuff until its fulled cured. That link stops at 24 hours so its pretty useless for this discussion, also he's talking about brining, which is a super inefficient method of curing because of equilibrium issues with the solution unless you continuously add more salt (which you know you're supposed to do if you're trying to cure something big with salt in a brine, and he didn't), not to mention you said "packed in salt" which is how I do all of my cured products.
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Jul 27, 2015 10:48
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Crusty Nutsack posted:meh.com (the original woot people) has a refurb vacuum sealer today for $15. https://meh.com Awesome, thanks!
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Jul 27, 2015 15:18
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Crusty Nutsack posted:meh.com (the original woot people) has a refurb vacuum sealer today for $15. https://meh.com Thanks, picked one up with two rolls of plastic from Amazon.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:20
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They sucked the air out of an ice cream cone. MONSTERS
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Jul 27, 2015 18:50
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Crusty Nutsack posted:meh.com (the original woot people) has a refurb vacuum sealer today for $15. https://meh.com Damnit, all gone.
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Jul 27, 2015 22:28
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New to sous vide and read the past 20 pages, great stuff. I just got my Anova Precision Cooker off this site for $137.99 + 15 shipping: https://www.touchofmodern.com/sales/anova-precision-cooker-d5fafa05-e27f-4c1a-b07a-be1b0369cb8b/precision-cooker. It's one of those sites where you have to be a member like Gilt. New users get $5 off.
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Jul 28, 2015 01:03
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baquerd posted:I just dropped an eye of round roast in that I salted like I would if I was going to actually roast it, how hosed is it? Trip report. After the prescribed 30 hours at 131, it was mushy and sort of dry. I'm not having any luck at all with the longer sous vide recipes, they all seem much worse than traditional methods. I did get a beautiful 2" thick strip steak done that was quite nice though.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:49
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I have no idea what an eye of round roast is but Google shows me pics of a hunk of meat vaguely akin to a tritip. I do tritips for 6 hours and a lot of people do them for less. 30 sounds like a rather long time, so if it came out mushy that's probably why. Even the same cuts of meat seem to vary a lot depending on where you live/buy, and everyone's tastes are different, so expect a lot of experimentation at first. ie. Everyone always seems to be blown away by sous vide short ribs, but it took me a more than a year before I figured out a method that produced something I really liked (and it really is loving delicious).
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Jul 29, 2015 05:02
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So, I'm trying to do bone-in skin-on chicken thighs for shredding. I thought I had a recipe for this but it turns out it's for breasts, not thighs. I'm having trouble finding a solid recipe or instructions for doing thighs like this. Has anyone else done this? I'm seeing temps between 150 and 170 recommended with times from 1.5 hours to 12 hours... Oae Ui fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 21:51
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Oae Ui posted:So, I'm trying to do bone-in skin-on chicken thighs for shredding. I thought I had a recipe for this but it turns out it's for breasts, not thighs. I'm having trouble finding a solid recipe or instructions for doing thighs like this. Has anyone else done this? I do bone-in skin-on thighs at 150 for 90 minutes and then sear them, but you should be able to shred them instead.
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Jul 30, 2015 21:57
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here's a chart from chefsteps that lists temperatures for sous vide: http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/sous-vide-time-and-temperature-guide there's also a printable one halfway down the page.
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Jul 30, 2015 22:03
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some temp guidelines here, even if it's for crispy skin chicken thighs http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-thigh.html
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Jul 30, 2015 22:09
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I don't really see why you wouldn't just braise chicken thighs for shredding
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Jul 30, 2015 22:52
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Is anyone else's Sansaire rusting around the screw clip on the heating coil?
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Jul 30, 2015 23:41
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Jose posted:I don't really see why you wouldn't just braise chicken thighs for shredding I wanted to see if doing them sous vide and keeping the temp strictly controlled would make them more moist and flavorful.
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Jul 31, 2015 04:26
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toplitzin posted:Is anyone else's Sansaire rusting around the screw clip on the heating coil? I am getting a good amount of rust in general I think.
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Jul 31, 2015 04:32
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I found this PID on amazon $30: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V4TJR00?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A1T3LOAKNUUM9N Looks fine, even if it only has a few reviews, I'll grab one and if it's crap I can try to build my own (or just say hell with and buy the dorkfood).
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Jul 31, 2015 23:01
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Doing a new experiment with sausages: since Kenji et al reccomend simmering sausages and many emulsified sausages are gently pre poached or pre smoked I'm trying "poaching" my fresh sausages sous vide the day before and then just searing them/reheating them on the grill tomorrow (similar to what you'd do when you make hot dogs).
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Jul 31, 2015 23:40
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Yeah, post your review when you get it, if a viable PID solution is out there for $30 that'll really lower the barrier of entry for newcomers
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Jul 31, 2015 23:41
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Jarmak posted:Doing a new experiment with sausages: since Kenji et al reccomend simmering sausages and many emulsified sausages are gently pre poached or pre smoked I'm trying "poaching" my fresh sausages sous vide the day before and then just searing them/reheating them on the grill tomorrow (similar to what you'd do when you make hot dogs). Did myself that a few weeks ago and it worked out well. I sautéed some onions and then added a little beer, and threw that in the bag with some bratwursts. Also did some Italian sausages, and I sautéed some bell pepper and onion along with some apple cider vinegar, a couple tablespoons of sugar, and a few herbs and put that all in the bag. Afterwards I grilled the sausages a bit to crisp them up and served with the onions and stuff from the bag.
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Aug 1, 2015 19:25
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I finally got the kinks worked out of my propane torch assembly today, and I celebrated by vizzling some beef ribs then finishing them off with the torch. It was definitely some of the best beef I've ever put in my mouth.
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Aug 2, 2015 22:50
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