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What is the dynamic between doms and subs in the furry community? Does it take the form of a master/pet relationship between a person and a furman? From what I've gathered from this thread, BDSM seems fairly common in the furry community. Is there some kind of universally recognized symbol, like wearing a dog collar over your big goofy hyena-lynx-dragon-wizard suit, to indicate that you are interested in that kind of thing? Additionally, have you ever witnessed an individual try to rally the furry community for a political cause? I've seen this kind of thing in other insulated subcultures, where the alpha-nerd of the bunch decides that he is charismatic and attempts to get his brethren involved in some political issue he's way too engaged in, like standing outside of planned parenthood with a giant hand-painted sign of an anime lady holding a baby.
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Jul 28, 2015 14:42
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My Man Shran posted:What is the dynamic between doms and subs in the furry community? Does it take the form of a master/pet relationship between a person and a furman? From what I've gathered from this thread, BDSM seems fairly common in the furry community. Not being involved in BDSM myself, all I can say is that the trappings are often visibly worn (collars, cuffs, harnesses etc) as part of furry costume or as general apparel by fandom members. Beyond that, I really couldn't comment. With regards politicising the fandom, at least in the UK that's avoided as much as is possible (indeed, when I ran the Birmingham meets we ended up banning a guy for, amongst other reasons, publicly associating the group with the Occupy movement). Indeed, I think one of the reasons the London Comittee enjoyed such cordial relations with both the Metropolitan and City Of London police forces is that we made the effort to reach out and communicate with them, stressing at all times our apolitical status.
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Jul 28, 2015 16:08
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Camrath posted:Generally badges are worn to help identify by name both in and out of suit, as well as another way to show off art of your character. Sort of like peacocking, I guess. That, and many people just enjoy collecting, showing off, and sharing different artists' interpretations of their character. My Man Schran posted:What is the dynamic between doms and subs in the furry community? Does it take the form of a master/pet relationship between a person and a furman? From what I've gathered from this thread, BDSM seems fairly common in the furry community. I've noticed that furries are often just plain drawn to countercultures, "alternative lifestyles," obscure interests, and fringe hobbies of various sorts, from BDSM to Burning Man to ham radio. Since most furry circles are relatively tolerant, welcoming, and relaxed, people feel like they can be open and honest (for good or ill) about the other things they're into, or the other parts of their life and identity. Re: politics, by my rough count, most furries seem to skew left and/or libertarian. There are some vocal furry right-wingers (who are often mocked for being loud, opinionated, and spergy) and, of course, furry SJWs (ditto). There was a bit of online drama surrounding a fursuiter who marched in the Anthrocon parade with a Confederate flag this year.
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Jul 28, 2015 17:24
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:Disclaimer: This is pure speculation. what is it with people saying cartoons are inherently autistic because of exaggerated expression or whatever? wouldn't autistic people not be able to identify emotional expression regardless of how cartoony it is? isn't that the whole point of autism, your brain doesn't recognize that? unless you think they're like studying cartoons like a textbook on human interaction and holding up pictures of anime faces to match to IRL people they're trying to figure out? anime and cartoons are exaggerated and cute because they're for children, full stop. unless you think all children are naturally autistic. if anything autistic people would be attracted to poo poo like lord of the rings with huge amounts of boring detail. i feel like if tolkien could have put trains in middle earth he would have, if you get what i mean i don't get it, beyond "trololol people who like a thing i don't are autistic trololol" (it's this) icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 19:16
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Nothing says "health, well-adjusted and neurotypical" like a 13 year old pillow wife.
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Jul 29, 2015 00:43
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I didn't say they were normal or healthy or whatever, just that casual accusations of mental disability as an edgelord internet joke should at least make basic sense w/r/t the situation in question
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 04:10
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SamLikesCake posted:There are artists in the fandom who have scammed people out of thousands of dollars. When I get some free time I'll have to make a post about Starfinder. Pretty sure anyone can look up Starfinder on their own, and figure out the basics without a big story about it. There's a gazillion pages about the shitstorm she kicked up. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 06:01
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icantfindaname posted:what is it with people saying cartoons are inherently autistic because of exaggerated expression or whatever? wouldn't autistic people not be able to identify emotional expression regardless of how cartoony it is? isn't that the whole point of autism, your brain doesn't recognize that? unless you think they're like studying cartoons like a textbook on human interaction and holding up pictures of anime faces to match to IRL people they're trying to figure out? anime and cartoons are exaggerated and cute because they're for children, full stop. unless you think all children are naturally autistic. if anything autistic people would be attracted to poo poo like lord of the rings with huge amounts of boring detail. i feel like if tolkien could have put trains in middle earth he would have, if you get what i mean Autism is a spectrum. It's not an all or nothing sort of thing.
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Jul 30, 2015 15:43
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Old Boot posted:Pretty sure anyone can look up Starfinder on their own, and figure out the basics without a big story about it. There's a gazillion pages about the shitstorm she kicked up. Yes, please don't post your entertaining-sounding story about drama in the furry community in this thread entitled "Ask me about being a bitter, angry former furry", SamLikesCake. That would spoil the whole thing.
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Jul 31, 2015 07:13
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You are right. There are a lot of very negative stereotypes about autism going around icantfindaname posted:unless you think all children are naturally autistic. However, this point stood out to me. I don't know how much experience you have with children, but being a teacher I have a lot and children do share some characteristics with autism. They aren't capable of understanding complex emotions and often miss the forest for the trees. Those are two pretty typical symptoms of autism, so it makes sense that children's entertainment appeals to autistic people too. The big difference is that children (normally) grow out of it. Internet Wizard posted:Autism is a spectrum. It's not an all or nothing sort of thing. This too. I don't think I ever said that autistic people always have the same behaviour, just that there were certain traits that seem to be more common. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.
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Jul 31, 2015 16:17
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:They aren't capable of understanding complex emotions and often miss the forest for the trees. Those are two pretty typical symptoms of autism, so it makes sense that children's entertainment appeals to autistic people too. The big difference is that children (normally) grow out of it. Sure, but if you put a child on the spectrum next to a neurotypical child, the differences will become apparent the longer you observe them. Most neurotypical children still possess a level of social savvy and social awareness that the kids on the spectrum don't. Neurotypical kids also don't engage in the "stimming" behaviors (rocking, hand flapping, head-banging) that you see in some autistic kids, of course, and don't display the same sensory quirks and hyper-sensitivities. And I answered the furries + autism question probably a page or so ago, with a link to the actual research that's been done there. In the end, as I've come to understand it, autism's just another brain type that comes with its own bag of strengths and deficits. When people receive good support and mentoring while growing up, they can develop the skills and insight to use their strengths and compensate for their weaknesses. When they don't receive appropriate support and mentoring, they turn out like Chris-Chan or Pamperchu, and become the laughingstock of the Internet. Tartarus Sauce fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jul 31, 2015 |
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Jul 31, 2015 17:06
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Tartarus Sauce posted:Sure, but if you put a child on the spectrum next to a neurotypical child, the differences will become apparent the longer you observe them. Most neurotypical children still possess a level of social savvy and social awareness that the kids on the spectrum don't. Neurotypical people engage in stimming, its just socially-acceptable stimming. There's a difference between figeting with a pen or playing with a lock of hair and something like yelling the refrain from Dora nonstop for 3 hours.
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Jul 31, 2015 18:53
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Dienes posted:Neurotypical people engage in stimming, its just socially-acceptable stimming. There's a difference between figeting with a pen or playing with a lock of hair and something like yelling the refrain from Dora nonstop for 3 hours. And neurotypical people can control it better--but yeah, good point.
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Jul 31, 2015 19:17
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Drawing on your experiences in the furry community, and your new perspective as a former member of that community, do you think it's possible to have a thread of any length on Something Awful without goons devolving it into an argument on the finer points of autism? What do you think is the mean number of posts between the first person to say "brony," or "furry," and the first appearance of the phrase, "autism is a spectrum?" Thank you, and I'll take my answer off the air.
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Aug 1, 2015 04:46
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"All children are autistic" -noted psychiatric expert, SA forums poster 1000 Brown M and Ms Like at some point the whole self-hating nerd thing posters here do all the time isn't actually funny anymore. If you're so desperate to cut down people you've deemed lower than you on the nerd ladder to try to stave off the crippling self-hatred that you're making statements like that I think you've gone too deep icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Aug 2, 2015 |
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Aug 2, 2015 07:20
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We keep coming back to the whole autistic argument because a lot of the broken people we discover on the Internet self-identify or self-diagnose as autistic (when in reality their social skills are broken from GSF or not being around other people enough) or use their legit diagnosis as a defense for awful or antisocial behavior. It's never going to go away and I agree discussing the definition of it is annoying but there is an overlap that cannot be denied.
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Aug 3, 2015 22:23
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How are things handled administratively, especially in regards to cons and things? Was everyone involved in the planning/execution a furry, or did someone bring in their friend Dave to handle accounting? Was anyone on this board paid for their time?
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Aug 5, 2015 15:37
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FearCotton posted:How are things handled administratively, especially in regards to cons and things? Was everyone involved in the planning/execution a furry, or did someone bring in their friend Dave to handle accounting? Was anyone on this board paid for their time? Friends of mine have worked and helped to organize cons. To the best of my knowledge, core staff of fur cons are usually furries, and those that aren't are "fur-friendly" geeks who just enjoy helping with geek cons. My understanding is that the cons and gatherings that run smoothly hire based on competence, diligence, and skill, and the ones that blow up or melt down are the ones where people hired their good buddy Dave, who pressured the staff to hire his good buddy Steve... I do know that many people volunteer their own time and money to put these things on. I don't know if, how, and when people get paid. None of my friends have ever talked about being paid. Tartarus Sauce fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 16:56
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icantfindaname posted:"All children are autistic" That's not what I said, but whatever.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:21
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Autism is just a label, man. Don't let labels define who you are. So what, like, if you enjoy children's shows or whipping dudes dressed like wolves. Does that make you any less of a man?
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Aug 6, 2015 04:27
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Maybe you can explain this to me: why does everybody hate furries in particular? I mean, it's a fetish like any other that happens to be more organized. What have they done to deserve the Internet's spite?
paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 15:25
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paradoxGentleman posted:Maybe you can explain this to me: why does everybody hate furries in particular? I mean, it's a fetish like any other that happens to be more organized. What have they done to deserve the Internet's spite? It's probably because they were one of the first and they're still one of the loudest and have a history of being absurdly hyperbolic when picked on.
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Aug 6, 2015 15:40
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I still feel sort of sad that furries are the accepted Internet punching bag. They can't seriously all be molesters.
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Aug 6, 2015 15:43
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paradoxGentleman posted:Maybe you can explain this to me: why does everybody hate furries in particular? I mean, it's a fetish like any other that happens to be more organized. What have they done to deserve the Internet's spite? I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this since this topic has largely devolved to kink and nerd shaming but, furries are not inherently a fetish. That is a subset of the fandom. Some people (and I've met plenty) enjoy the (non yiffy) art, or suiting, or some other aspect of it. Without any sexuality tied to it. While I know the OP is very bitter and angry about the fandom (hence the topic title) it's unfair to the socially well adjusted furries who are just interested in the fandom like any other. This mindset is a dangerous slippery slope to get in.
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Aug 6, 2015 16:22
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Tartarus Sauce posted:Friends of mine have worked and helped to organize cons. To the best of my knowledge, core staff of fur cons are usually furries, and those that aren't are "fur-friendly" geeks who just enjoy helping with geek cons. Cons and other events are almost entirely staffed by volunteers. I only have intimate experience of running the Londonfurs group, which consisted at the time of five committee members selected by the other members of the team on a 'one in, one out' sort of basis. Never received a penny for my time; anything earned from events or donations was reinvested to pay for insurance or future events. And I put in a fair amount of my own cash over the years (for hi-viz gear and radios mostly). I don't believe even con directors draw a salary per se- things very much run on the basis of people's good nature and willingness to give up time and money. jiffypop45 posted:I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this since this topic has largely devolved to kink and nerd shaming but, furries are not inherently a fetish. That is a subset of the fandom. Some people (and I've met plenty) enjoy the (non yiffy) art, or suiting, or some other aspect of it. Without any sexuality tied to it. Well put.
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Aug 6, 2015 16:35
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jiffypop45 posted:I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this since this topic has largely devolved to kink and nerd shaming but, furries are not inherently a fetish. That is a subset of the fandom. Some people (and I've met plenty) enjoy the (non yiffy) art, or suiting, or some other aspect of it. Without any sexuality tied to it. The problem is that the furry community seems to exhibit GSF issues worse than others (save for perhaps the Bronies, who are basically a subspecies of furry). Not all Furries may be into the grosser parts of the culture, but they sure as poo poo tolerate it, to the point where semi-uncloseted dogfuckers can achieve positions of leadership, as the OP pointed out. ProperGanderPusher fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 16:42
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paradoxGentleman posted:Maybe you can explain this to me: why does everybody hate furries in particular? I mean, it's a fetish like any other that happens to be more organized. What have they done to deserve the Internet's spite? "Fursecution" Also, comparing being made fun of to how the nazis treated the jews, endless repetitions of that "First they came for the people that aren't me..." thing. And not just for them being furries. Like, if you made fun of them in any way. Essentially the entire exposure for most people was "Whiny overreacting hyperdefensive babies + freaky kinky sex in anonymizing suits that look like the things constantly around children". There's nothing like a group of people who are assholes about their persecution complexes to make people hate them and anybody associated with them.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:03
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ProperGanderPusher posted:The problem is that the furry community seems to exhibit GSF issues worse than others (save for perhaps the Bronies, who are basically a subspecies of furry). Not all Furries may be into the grosser parts of the culture, but they sure as poo poo tolerate it, to the point where semi-uncloseted dogfuckers can achieve positions of leadership, as the OP pointed out. That doesn't validate the generalization that all furries are zoophiles. I will say that furries are their own worst enemy for not ostracizing the outed zoophiles, pedophiles, and other unethical members of their group which is definitely something that needs to change for the perception of their fandom to evolve past that. I was at an anime con this weekend and while I did three (2.5 really, last day was casual) cosplays and got tons of picture requests, it's always very obvious that the only people that associate with furries and take pictures with them are the furries themselves. Which is in light of the previous point a bit sad since it doesn't have to be that way.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:04
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jiffypop45 posted:That doesn't validate the generalization that all furries are zoophiles. I will say that furries are their own worst enemy for not ostracizing the outed zoophiles, pedophiles, and other unethical members of their group which is definitely something that needs to change for the perception of their fandom to evolve past that. No that poo poo needs to change because it's loving horrible, and if people have issues being perceived as a likely zoophile or pedophile, they should stop associating with a group containing known zoophiles and pedophiles. E: Or start some huge campaign to distance yourselves, and loving report those people. poo poo isn't going to stop getting thrown as long as you can just point to some dude at a con and go "that guy is clearly creepy." without having to move, or when people KNOW that there are pedophiles/zoophiles and aren't reporting them to the loving police. surc fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 17:10
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Take my plush costume seriously! We're not ALL pedos!
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Aug 6, 2015 17:18
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surc posted:No that poo poo needs to change because it's loving horrible, and if people have issues being perceived as a likely zoophile or pedophile, they should stop associating with a group containing known zoophiles and pedophiles. You assume that people don't do just that (ie report people to the authorities). I know I have, as have quite a few others. Hell, we had someone get arrested at a Londonfurs party after we reported him on suspicion of rape (the allegations were false, as it turned out). The problem is both internal and external- internally a lot of the deviants /are/ in respected/powerful positions within the fandom and people refuse to believe that these 'popufurs' could do wrong, and externally a combination of a lack of hard evidence, the insular nature of the community and frankly a lack of interest by police makes it almost impossible to bring charges, let alone make them stick.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:28
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Camrath posted:You assume that people don't do just that (ie report people to the authorities). I know I have, as have quite a few others. Hell, we had someone get arrested at a Londonfurs party after we reported him on suspicion of rape (the allegations were false, as it turned out). The problem is both internal and external- internally a lot of the deviants /are/ in respected/powerful positions within the fandom and people refuse to believe that these 'popufurs' could do wrong, and externally a combination of a lack of hard evidence, the insular nature of the community and frankly a lack of interest by police makes it almost impossible to bring charges, let alone make them stick. I can see how it seemed like I was assuming that, but I was really just taking issue with that dude's phrasing. I assume he didn't mean "and that's the only reason it should stop", and instead just didn't feel the need to put in the 'and it's horrible' (I hope I'm not giving too much credit  ), but I felt it needed to be stressed because otherwise some naive teenager getting his kink on will be all "That's a good point, I should tell my dog-fucker buddy to hide it better" instead of getting the message that he should not be covering for his dog-fucker buddy.I'm totally aware that the community is trying to police itself (Been reading the thread as it goes, your posts on that were pretty interesting), I was responding to that dude asking "why does the internet hate furries" initally, and until the community gets more successful at policing itself, people are gonna have a lot of problems with Furries as a whole instead of just specific people involved. surc fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 17:54
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:That's not what I said, but whatever. Okay "Children are naturally predisposed to autism, or childlike behavior is a symptom/similar to autism" -noted psychiatric expert, SA forums poster 1000 Brown M and Ms You're a loving idiot, and using accusations of mental disability as a casual insult is incredibly lovely. Make fun of furries and anime watchers all you like but when people actually start taking internet jokes about them being autistic or furries being pedos or whatever as deadly serious true gospel fact then you've morphed into a new breed of hilarious dumbshit yourself, like the people who saw /pol/ and thought it was unironically correct, or even the bronies themselves, which as I understand started as a joke on 4chan
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Aug 6, 2015 18:37
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Justin Godscock posted:We keep coming back to the whole autistic argument because a lot of the broken people we discover on the Internet self-identify or self-diagnose as autistic (when in reality their social skills are broken from GSF or not being around other people enough) or use their legit diagnosis as a defense for awful or antisocial behavior. It's never going to go away and I agree discussing the definition of it is annoying but there is an overlap that cannot be denied. What does GSF mean? Google says it's either Group gently caress Fick or Girls Schmirls Foundation, but I feel like neither really fits the context. Agree with what you are saying here, but as a piece of trivia, bronies actually had their start when /b/, the particularly lovely random board, watched MLP expecting it to suck really badly, found out that it was actually rather decent and became ferociously defensive of it. paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 19:10
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GSF = Geek Social Fallacies
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Aug 6, 2015 19:43
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paradoxGentleman posted:Maybe you can explain this to me: why does everybody hate furries in particular? I mean, it's a fetish like any other that happens to be more organized. What have they done to deserve the Internet's spite? What everyone else said, but also the fact that so much of it is childlike by nature is just super loving creepy on a primal level. Like, I'm as kink-positive as they come, but there's something about the "tooniness" that feels like they're retroactively sexualizing my childhood. Especially when you see so much explicitly ripped-off-from-Disney furry porn.
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Aug 6, 2015 22:28
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Yeah IMO the feeling I get that these people must all be borderline suicidal and/or afflicted with crippling social anxiety is more why it's creepy than anything else. Like a grown man shouldn't need to watch a cartoon about colored ponies for 8 year old girls for comfort, and yet that's pretty much what bronies are. All of these things absolutely radiate an aura of extreme emotional desperation. I don't think they're like a sociopathic child molester who tortured animals as a kid or anything, but rather they'd rather gently caress a cartoon animal than a real person because the real world makes them want to kill themselves
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 22:57
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surc posted:No that poo poo needs to change because it's loving horrible, and if people have issues being perceived as a likely zoophile or pedophile, they should stop associating with a group containing known zoophiles and pedophiles. I addressed a piece of this before. I've noticed that lots of people will be hyper-vocal and intensely critical online about someone being a pedophile, a zoophile, a general creeper, or a public murrsuiter, but as usual, precious few people will actually loving do anything. There are several Tumblrs and other sites devoted to "outing" the crappy furries, but the worst people don't necessarily experience meaningful IRL consequences for their behavior, unless it reaches a head and/or they get "caught in the act." Thanks to the usual Geek Social Fallacies, people seem especially remiss to confront someone in person if they seem particularly broken, hyper-sensitive, and/or prone to drama, or if their behavior doesn't quite meet a clear threshold for awfulness. It doesn't help that some people seem to love to spread catty rumors and exaggerate stories about each other out of spite, so then no one knows who or what to believe. There are some individuals who will actually draw lines in the sand, and there are always those people who will inevitably complain about them being "mean" or "unfair." A friend of mine who volunteers at several cons and is ethical to a fault has had a lot of vicious rumors spread about him because he just told people that their behavior wasn't going to fly. It appears that offering a blatantly-stupid soundbite to the mass media is practically grounds for banishment, though, at least in the States. Tartarus Sauce fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 7, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 23:40
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The time is overdue for this thread to be moved to GBS.
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Aug 6, 2015 23:54
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Sizone posted:The time is overdue for this thread to be moved to GBS. I disagree. There's actually been some pretty smart and reasonable discussion here so far. I really don't want it to end up in a firestorm of morons shitposting.
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Aug 7, 2015 00:24
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