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WickedHate posted:I don't get when people don't enjoy the suffering of bad people more. I hope to gently caress this is one of those posts you look back on in five years and wince
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Jul 31, 2015 22:58
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Skwirl posted:Because while Schadenfreude can be fun sometimes, reveling in it too much is incredibly unhealthy. And the whole point of Punisher Max is that Frank is a broken person who can only respond with violence. He even admit that while what he does in Slavers might be cathartic it won't do anything to solve the problem.
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Jul 31, 2015 23:00
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Skwirl posted:Because while Schadenfreude can be fun sometimes, reveling in it too much is incredibly unhealthy. Hah! The true answer to "why is evil a thing?" is no doubt much more complicated, but as far as I'm concerned the immoral might as well exist for the sole purpose of making good people look awesome when they gently caress them over. Obviously not having to put up with them at all would be ideal, but as long as it's necessary might as well look at the bright side. They're like zombies! Sure, it really sucks having them around, but at least some fun can be had. Alhazred posted:And the whole point of Punisher Max is that Frank is a broken person who can only respond with violence. He even admit that while what he does in Slavers might be cathartic it won't do anything to solve the problem. Not systematically but that's totally unfair(even from himself) and ignores that (A) those specific people will never hurt anyone ever again and (B) justice.
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Jul 31, 2015 23:12
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It's been a while since I read it, but I still feel safe saying that the ultimate point of The Slavers is that both (a) and (b) don't actually help anyone. There'll just be someone new. That's like half the point of Ennis's whole run on Punisher MAX, really.
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Jul 31, 2015 23:17
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WickedHate posted:Hah! The true answer to "why is evil a thing?" is no doubt much more complicated, but as far as I'm concerned the immoral might as well exist for the sole purpose of making good people look awesome when they gently caress them over. Obviously not having to put up with them at all would be ideal, but as long as it's necessary might as well look at the bright side. They're like zombies! Sure, it really sucks having them around, but at least some fun can be had. Evil isn't a person you defeat, it's an action you stop yourself from taking.
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Jul 31, 2015 23:21
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Lurdiak posted:Evil isn't a person you defeat, it's an action you stop yourself from taking. And that you prevent from happening and punish others for when they take it.  RandallODim posted:It's been a while since I read it, but I still feel safe saying that the ultimate point of The Slavers is that both (a) and (b) don't actually help anyone. There'll just be someone new. That's like half the point of Ennis's whole run on Punisher MAX, really. Frank isn't a god. I guess the legal justice system doesn't really help anyone either since it hasn't wiped out crime forever so we should just forget about any effort and live in anarchy.
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Jul 31, 2015 23:24
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Wicked Hate really pulling to top her previous hits "We should revoke the First Amendment" and "The Future will be cool with incest".
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Jul 31, 2015 23:35
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WickedHate posted:Hah! The true answer to "why is evil a thing?" is no doubt much more complicated, but as far as I'm concerned the immoral might as well exist for the sole purpose of making good people look awesome when they gently caress them over. Obviously not having to put up with them at all would be ideal, but as long as it's necessary might as well look at the bright side. They're like zombies! Sure, it really sucks having them around, but at least some fun can be had. Jesus Christ we get it, you're fifteen. It's Friday night, go huff some paint or something.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:08
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Punisher MAX was a great book not because of the excessive violence, but because of how well it conveyed the concept that Frank Castle is not a Hero. He's a monster every bit as bad as the people he kills, sometimes worse. Killing bad guys doesn't make him one of the good guys.          
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Aug 1, 2015 00:14
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WickedHate posted:Hah! The true answer to "why is evil a thing?" is no doubt much more complicated, but as far as I'm concerned the immoral might as well exist for the sole purpose of making good people look awesome when they gently caress them over. Obviously not having to put up with them at all would be ideal, but as long as it's necessary might as well look at the bright side. They're like zombies! Sure, it really sucks having them around, but at least some fun can be had. Jesus Christ you're a disgusting human being. Murder isn't justice.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:16
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WickedHate posted:Hah! The true answer to "why is evil a thing?" is no doubt much more complicated, but as far as I'm concerned the immoral might as well exist for the sole purpose of making good people look awesome when they gently caress them over. Obviously not having to put up with them at all would be ideal, but as long as it's necessary might as well look at the bright side. They're like zombies! Sure, it really sucks having them around, but at least some fun can be had. WickedHate posted:I don't get when people don't enjoy the suffering of bad people more. Sadism for pleasure is practically the definition of evil.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:18
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Avulsion posted:Punisher MAX was a great book not because of the excessive violence, but because of how well it conveyed the concept that Frank Castle is not a Hero. He's a monster every bit as bad as the people he kills, sometimes worse. Killing bad guys doesn't make him one of the good guys. Plenty of heroes struggle with things like a compulsion to kill innocents. Frank never succumbs. He's a just entity. I really hope he becomes Ghost Rider sometime. Dammit Who? posted:Sadism for pleasure is practically the definition of evil. Nope! It depends entirely on who it's directed at. Sadism can be deplorable or loving awesome.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:20
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Hah! WickedHate is an Objectivist, it all makes sense now.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:24
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Superstring posted:Hah! WickedHate is an Objectivist, it all makes sense now. I'm really, really not, trust me. Black and white? Absolutely. But I'm all about altruism and regulations. As an apology for this derail here's more content, from the otherwise forgettable most recent Punisher run: 
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Aug 1, 2015 00:29
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WickedHate posted:
There has been no human being in the history of our species for whom suffering is just and deserved and would make our world safer, happier, or better in any measurable way.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:31
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I dunno my reaction to some of the more out there stuff Punisher MAX stuff isn't "gently caress yeah! frank's kicking rear end and taking names!" I thought those comics were incredibly effective and well done (except the Barracuda stuff, thought those were dumb), but the overall feeling I had was sadness mostly.
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Aug 1, 2015 00:36
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Scaramouche posted:I thought those comics were incredibly effective and well done (except the Barracuda stuff, thought those were dumb), but the overall feeling I had was sadness mostly. The whole thing is really sad even with the exciting, awesome moments. Stuff like the end to the Slavers arc in particular is brutal and heartbreaking. All the more reason the people who caused it deserved what they got and more. People who cause suffering is what causes them to require suffering in turn. I see myself as a very dedicated entomologist who wants to keep the insects from hurting each other because I care, and thankfully I also happen to greatly enjoy the process of eliminating the bad ones, for they who enjoy their job never has to work, am I right? Not that I'm Frank Castle, but that's my views on justified schadenfreude. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Aug 1, 2015 |
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Aug 1, 2015 00:42
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WickedHate posted:Plenty of heroes struggle with things like a compulsion to kill innocents. Frank never succumbs. He's a just entity. How the poo poo has this not been a "What if?" yet?? 
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Aug 1, 2015 00:58
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That Ignorant Sap posted:How the poo poo has this not been a "What if?" yet?? I know right!? Preferably by Jason Aaron.
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Aug 1, 2015 01:00
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Travis343 posted:There has been no human being in the history of our species for whom suffering is just and deserved and would make our world safer, happier, or better in any measurable way. Is it okay if I like seeing Dr. Doom get beaten up?
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Aug 1, 2015 01:56
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Philosophy chat is dumb and you're all a bunch of Kants.
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Aug 1, 2015 02:03
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Travis343 posted:There has been no human being in the history of our species for whom suffering is just and deserved and would make our world safer, happier, or better in any measurable way. Ehhh if you're looking at it from a "we can never stoop down to their level" kind of way perhaps. But off the top of my head, Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, Pinochet, Pol Pot, Caligula, Nero, The Borgias. Those would be a decent debate on their suffering is just and deserved for the betterment of the world.
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Aug 1, 2015 02:09
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Hypocrisy posted:Is it okay if I like seeing Dr. Doom get beaten up? Getting beaten up is fine and dandy. Nobody's talking about punchin' a fool. Punch away. Jiro posted:Ehhh if you're looking at it from a "we can never stoop down to their level" kind of way perhaps. But off the top of my head, Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, Pinochet, Pol Pot, Caligula, Nero, The Borgias. Those would be a decent debate on their suffering is just and deserved for the betterment of the world. I mean you're acting like I have never heard of these people before making a statement like that. Pain and suffering is not a debt that has to, or in fact can, be paid back. I'm not even talking about execution - I think there's an argument for the oppressed people executing a brutal dictator - WickedHate is basically talking about torture. Sadistically, intentionally causing them suffering because it is fun to you. I maintain that nothing would be gained by that no matter what atrocities the person has committed. This is like humanity 101, basic "gaze into the abyss" stuff. The people who removed Caligula from power grabbed his kid by the ankles and swung their skull against a wall. How does that help anyone? It's not even about sinking to their level it's about recognizing that we are already on their level. They are not inhuman monsters, they're human. Let me hearken back to a badass panels thread classic: Captain America didn't fight the Nazis because America was strong, but because it was fragile! Same basic principle.
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Aug 1, 2015 03:05
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I like when Punisher shoots the bad guys. I do not think he's a good role model for teenagers or the military. It's complicated.
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Aug 1, 2015 03:14
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Philosophy 101 claims another dumbass.
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Aug 1, 2015 03:33
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WickedHate posted:The whole thing is really sad even with the exciting, awesome moments. Stuff like the end to the Slavers arc in particular is brutal and heartbreaking. Can all this, uh, whatever the gently caress this is, be done somewhere else, like a toilet or a garbage dump, thanks.
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Aug 1, 2015 03:37
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Ghost Rider's penitence stare doesn't work on Frank Castle because he doesn't regret a goddamn thing. He's not a good person, and he often creates monsters as bad as the ones he kills. Which suits him fine - he's a conservationist. he just doesn't catch and release. 
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Aug 1, 2015 04:05
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The only thing that really upset me about Frank, morally, was his attitude on molested children. I can't tell if that's what Ennis actually thinks or not, but it really bugged me for Frank to be employing this line of thinking unironically. "I'll probably be seeing them in a few years" Jesus loving Christ.
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Aug 1, 2015 04:14
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To atone for my role in that debacle I offer some badass. Here's Batwoman, Wonder Woman and Hawkfire (Batwoman's cousin Bette Kane) punching sleepover mainstay Bloody Mary (who is of course made of a living mirror) into pieces, and using a shard of her shattered face to show Medusa her own reflection and turn her to stone. Batwoman #17.
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Aug 1, 2015 04:26
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Post badass panels in this thread. Don't whine about panels that people posted. Thanks.
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Aug 1, 2015 04:41
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Die Laughing posted:I like when Punisher shoots the bad guys. I do not think he's a good role model for teenagers or the military. It's complicated. This is a good and fair opinion. Punisher is not a good guy, but it is not a crime to enjoy reading the Punisher. Anyway, let's talk about Hulks and dinosaurs. Planet Hulk #3     
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Aug 1, 2015 06:59
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WickedHate posted:I don't get when people don't enjoy the suffering of bad people more. 2 edgy 4 me
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Aug 1, 2015 11:21
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flosofl posted:I always like the Wolverine vs Hulk throw downs. Did the Ultimate one ever get finished? It went on some huge hiatus and during that time I completely forgot about it. Also is that Hulk vs Wolverine originally posted from something new? Old? Collected and completed?
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Aug 1, 2015 17:06
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Travis343 posted:To atone for my role in that debacle I offer some badass. Here's Batwoman, Wonder Woman and Hawkfire (Batwoman's cousin Bette Kane) punching sleepover mainstay Bloody Mary (who is of course made of a living mirror) into pieces, and using a shard of her shattered face to show Medusa her own reflection and turn her to stone. And then without missing a beat she proposes to her girlfriend:    (This is also a good point to stop reading the Batwoman comic because shortly after this the series devolves into softcore vampire porn)
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Aug 1, 2015 17:30
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I'm not really familiar with the character, is there a reason why her skin is Joker white?
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Aug 1, 2015 17:31
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It's how she's been designed since inception. She's meant to be like, super-pale ginger in comparison to the more olive-skinned Barbara Gordon, but there must be like some default approved shade colorists are told to look at that doesn't always match their palette.
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Aug 1, 2015 17:35
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AnonSpore posted:I'm not really familiar with the character, is there a reason why her skin is Joker white? She's a goth.
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Aug 1, 2015 17:36
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Alhazred posted:And then without missing a beat she proposes to her girlfriend: She proposes and reveals her secret identity to her girlfriend at the same time. And yes this was the last issue of Batwoman as far as I'm concerned.
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Aug 1, 2015 17:40
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Travis343 posted:She proposes and reveals her secret identity to her girlfriend at the same time. Proving that being badass isn't always about violence.
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Aug 1, 2015 17:42
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Literally Kermit posted:Ghost Rider's penitence stare doesn't work on Frank Castle because he doesn't regret a goddamn thing. Okay, see, that is badass. It's like when Molly Hayes punched Frank in the gut and he managed to not collapse. Badass, to me, is about will and determination. I remember the way Grant Morrison described Kyle Rayner using the Green Lantern Ring: "using the Ring is like giving up smoking. He feels like a fifty-a-day man." It's not necessarily about physical power. It's about doing stuff versus overwhelming odds, when the sensible option would be to quit. Self-sacrifice. Putting yourself at risk. Standing alone at Gjallerbru. I've already mentioned the "Spectre vs Capital Punishment" incident, where the badass factor was that the Spectre managed to stare down the human legal system. There was another incident in Ostrander's run where Madame Xanadu forcibly separated Jim Corrigan from the Spectre, saying that she could do better things with its power than he could. So she merges with the Spectre, and starts bringing about a utopia - BUT FIRST, she has to slaughter all the rapists, and abusers, and polluters. Corrigan (who is by this point little more than a ghost) joins forces with a few other magicians, and they manage to summon Xanadu/Spectre into their pentagram. They try telling her that this isn't what the Spectre is for, that she can't use it to fix the world, to cure all diseases - what, would she banish death? And she screams "WHY NOT!" And he confronts her. She's like a hundred feet tall, and fused with the Wrath of God, and he's screaming at her. "You think the Spectre's just some power source you can use however you want? I LIVED WITH IT FOR OVER SIXTY YEARS! IT'S MADE OF RAGE! YOU'LL NEVER GET AROUND TO CHANGING THE WORLD, BECAUSE THERE'LL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE TO PUNISH! YOUR TARGETS MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM MINE, BUT YOUR METHODS WILL ALWAYS BE THE SAME! IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? TO END UP JUST LIKE ME?!?!?" and this tiny tiny ghost glares up at the fuming furious incarnation of anger... ... and the incarnation of anger blinks. "... no." and she releases her hold on the Spectre.
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Aug 1, 2015 18:02
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