|
Main thing I'm hopeful for is a better tinkerer start, especially for true kin. Tinkerer characters have it really weird and unpleasant early on. Turret making is kinda bad and unreliable and extremely high int makes them bad at learning to use weapons and armor early on when it's the most dangerous. All the various artifact toys are real fun so a character that gets to use as many of them as possible sounds appealing - true men getting more bonuses in machines to help them be equally valid alternatives to mutants that explode things with their mind and have swords for hands seems like a possibility to make them more appealing. Praetorians are real strong, but that's the only type of true man I can really get going and I'm not sure a strong mutant wouldn't be better off anyway.
Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Aug 1, 2015 |
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 10:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 22:06 |
|
|
Wolpertinger posted:Main thing I'm hopeful for is a better tinkerer start, especially for true kin. Tinkerer characters have it really weird and unpleasant early on. Turret making is kinda bad and unreliable and extremely high int makes them bad at learning to use weapons and armor early on when it's the most dangerous. All the various artifact toys are real fun so a character that gets to use as many of them as possible sounds appealing - true men getting more bonuses in machines to help them be equally valid alternatives to mutants that explode things with their mind and have swords for hands seems like a possibility to make them more appealing. Praetorians are real strong, but that's the only type of true man I can really get going and I'm not sure a strong mutant wouldn't be better off anyway. Make more grenades and throw them. That's how you tinker for now. Flashbangs are better than the confusion mutation and HE grenades can't be resisted. Freeze grenade II and III are brutally effective at shutting down groups of enemies. Thermal grenades break the economy. Acid grenades dig.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 11:21
|
|
|
Like Dis said, psycho tinkers can mass produce grenades through psychometry. True Men have to luck into the datadisks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 12:37
|
|
|
Does amphibious require you to pour fresh water over yourself or can you use salt water?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 12:47
|
|
|
Danger - Octopus! posted:Does amphibious require you to pour fresh water over yourself or can you use salt water? It requires fresh water. It's also pretty much free points because base water consumption is trivial and 5/3 of trivial is still trivial.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 13:24
|
|
|
dis astranagant posted:Make more grenades and throw them. That's how you tinker for now. Flashbangs are better than the confusion mutation and HE grenades can't be resisted. Freeze grenade II and III are brutally effective at shutting down groups of enemies. Thermal grenades break the economy. Acid grenades dig. amuayse posted:Like Dis said, psycho tinkers can mass produce grenades through psychometry. True Men have to luck into the datadisks. Pretty much this, yeah - tinkerers are too much of a diceroll for even the basics to get started with. Most of the time the recipes i start with, and the recipes for sale (which are all massively expensive) aren't anything useful any time soon, or if it would be, feasible to produce with the rarity of high level bits. Even if you do produce a couple grenades, using grenades on every single fight seems extraordinarily expensive, which is why I try to go for ammunition or gun recipes if I can, but again, that's just a diceroll and I've yet to actually get even a lead slug recipe. Tinkering so far seems like something you do on mid-high level characters (which I've yet to actually survive to) after you've leveled the important skills and already found useful disks or have psychometry. Come to think of it, just giving starting tinkerers a couple of basic useful grenade recipes or ammunition recipes instead of '2 random disks of dubious value' (which, by the way, is worse than what someone learning tinkerer gets, they get to pick one from three) or something could be a simple way to help manage it. The stun rod is the only guaranteed trinket they have and it's more of a last resort than a centerpiece considering it's 1d2 in the hands of a character with mediocre strength at best. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Aug 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 13:34
|
|
|
The basic ammo recipes are comically low yield, at 5 slugs or shotgun shells per bit. If you have 5 or 6 thermal grenade Is, 2 thermal grenade IIs or a thermal grenade 3 you can melt shale and shatter the economy with your $7000 waterskins full of lava.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 13:42
|
|
|
The frustrating part of being a tinker is that often recipes for things are harder to get than the things themselves; especially if you have a low Ego, a recipe for a dirt-common thing like a revolver can cost you several hundred drams. And then you have to have the bits. By the time you've got that stuff you'll have found half a dozen revolvers lying on the floor. So a way to make your own recipes would be neat. One idea I thought would be cool would be a way for tinkers to "experiment." This would consume some bits and have a chance to teach you a new, random recipe. True Men could get a bonus to it (they've had more exposure to tech), say a choice of three recipes instead of a purely random one. That'd make it a better option for them than for mutants, who can use Psychometry instead.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 13:46
|
|
|
megane posted:The frustrating part of being a tinker is that often recipes for things are harder to get than the things themselves; especially if you have a low Ego, a recipe for a dirt-common thing like a revolver can cost you several hundred drams. And then you have to have the bits. By the time you've got that stuff you'll have found half a dozen revolvers lying on the floor. There's an idea. Though just figuring out the secrets of ancient tech by fiddling with bits might be a bit much, maybe something like finding old, damaged data disks that contain multiple potential recipes, perhaps in a category, like finding a 'simple weapons' or a 'low tier grenade' data disk and you can pick one recipe to try and recover before the thing breaks, with success needing some investment in intelligence and tinkering with a bonus for true men - you have these be decently common artifacts compared to normal data disks, maybe even scavenged up from junk piles with the scavenging skill. dis astranagant posted:The basic ammo recipes are comically low yield, at 5 slugs or shotgun shells per bit. If you have 5 or 6 thermal grenade Is, 2 thermal grenade IIs or a thermal grenade 3 you can melt shale and shatter the economy with your $7000 waterskins full of lava. I haven't actually had the chance to do the lava trick yet, but presumably at some point it's gunna get fixed, so I was making suggestions under the assumption lava waterskins would no longer be infinite money  .
Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Aug 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 13:49
|
|
|
CoQ Dodge reckonings: What about re-purposing it along the lines of glancing/fractional blows and the like? Protection from criticals/dismemberings, escalating % damage shaving versus straight (Armor) reduction to where Armor will keep you from The Danger Zone generally but Dodging will help you actually operate within it, chance to hit adjoining targets and/or the wall/floor to add some degree of offensive consideration for it, etc? New perks and whatnot could also organically grow out of these sorts of things. Given the tabletop roots of CoQ, let it be something akin to a bit of DM fudging vs "rocks fall, everybody dies" that you can aspire to some fair degree of agency on~
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 14:04
|
|
|
Someone mentioned it before but here's how Path of Exile implements evasion (it's a diablo-like but better ). I haven't played an evasion-focused character so I can't say how well it works but it seems pretty reasonable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 14:36
|
|
|
Wolpertinger posted:There's an idea. Though just figuring out the secrets of ancient tech by fiddling with bits might be a bit much, maybe something like finding old, damaged data disks that contain multiple potential recipes, perhaps in a category, like finding a 'simple weapons' or a 'low tier grenade' data disk and you can pick one recipe to try and recover before the thing breaks, with success needing some investment in intelligence and tinkering with a bonus for true men - you have these be decently common artifacts compared to normal data disks, maybe even scavenged up from junk piles with the scavenging skill. The data disc is actually a complete snapshot of the "wikiHow" website. 1000 years after the fall, nobody is able to tell the joke entries from the real ones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 14:59
|
|
|
omeg posted:Someone mentioned it before but here's how Path of Exile implements evasion (it's a diablo-like but better Here's my making GBS threads on unormal list: 1. Balance. True kin really need some reason to pick them, and not just tinkering since that just makes 2 of 12 castes viable instead of 1 of 12. I confess I have no experience with cybernetics since I've never beat Golgotha, but maybe a more robust or earlier-available version of that? True kin power tapers off pretty quickly even compared to chimera, so some kickin' rad enhanced oculars or Typhoon explosives or something might pick up the slack in midgame and carry them to late. Early game they can be pretty hit or miss, and a loadout option at chargen would help with that. I don't think this is as necessary, since a rough start is something that can be overcome much easier than being godawful in mid-late game. 2. UI. It's already been said a bunch, but a better UI would be nice, specifically for equipment management and the message log. The equipment screen is less functional than the inventory screen for equipment management because you have to select -> remove -> equip new while the inventory screen lets you just straight swap, but blindly. Figuring out what happened last turn in the message log is pretty hit or miss. 3. UI. Screen flashing when you take damage or when you're low on health is a pretty QoL thing but it helps fix the issue of health taking up so little screen real estate and thus being harder to see. 4. Factions. I don't know what your exact plans are here, but something that would be nice is if there is a more static element to each faction. One of my earlier games there were a bunch of Barathrumites milling about near bedrolls at Red Rock and thought that was pretty cool, but I haven't seen anything like that since. Minor settlements like that for some legendaries would really give the impression landscape is sparsely occupied, and it makes it easier to "deal" with factions by trading or offering water or whatever. 5. UI. Tangentially, the ability to mark the map with PoI would be killer as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 15:30
|
|
|
alarumklok posted:It works pretty well, especially with a buffer of some kind (energy shield), and is one of my favorite concepts from PoE and I really hope it catches on in other games. I agree with all of this, but especially number one in particular. Right now playing a mutant feels like you're playing the Uncanny X-Men. I want playing a True Kin to feel like Deus Ex. Add another line of abilities that True Kin have access to during character creation for cybernetics. Hell, just make it so that True Kin have a set of starting funds (modified by Ego and caste, maybe?) and they get to purchase equipment during character creation. Nothing game breaking, but it could move Cybernetics out of something you might eventually reach if you are lucky to something you could realistically build a character around.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
You could also make True Men have 2x skillpoints or something. That'd mean that mutants are the characters with weird physical/mental abilities and True Men are the characters with lots of knowledge and practice. Of course, this would be more relevant once the skills get rebalanced.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 16:49
|
|
|
The Dredmor thread has fallen into archives, so I'm asking here -- does anyone know if there's open literature on how Dredmor level generation works, such as the room/loot/monster placement algorithms? There's loads of information on the forums and wiki on how to add rooms and suchlike, but I can't find much on how the dungeon is actually generated.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 19:26
|
|
|
RickVoid posted:I agree with all of this, but especially number one in particular. Right now playing a mutant feels like you're playing the Uncanny X-Men. I want playing a True Kin to feel like Deus Ex. Add another line of abilities that True Kin have access to during character creation for cybernetics. Hell, just make it so that True Kin have a set of starting funds (modified by Ego and caste, maybe?) and they get to purchase equipment during character creation. Nothing game breaking, but it could move Cybernetics out of something you might eventually reach if you are lucky to something you could realistically build a character around. Yes I want to blow all my funds on an Elysium/Stalker exoskeleton or a robotic mule
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
I stumbled upon a new roguelike that I really like - The Ground Gives Way. It reminds me of Brogue a lot. HP doesn't naturally regen, no race/class, no xp. Your character is defined by what you find and there's a lot to find. Very nice, clean interface too. Check it out! http://www.thegroundgivesway.com/ Happylisk fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Aug 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Unormal, is there a reason artifacts aren't auto-examined on pickup? bisonbison fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 22:32
|
|
|
bisonbison posted:Unormal, is there a reason artifacts aren't auto-examined on pickup? Sometimes they break or the examination fails in other ways and eventually we'd like examination to not be quite so straightforward a process, at least for mid and high tier objects.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 22:33
|
|
|
Unormal posted:Sometimes they break or the examination fails in other ways and eventually we'd like examination to not be quite so straightforward a process, at least for mid and high tier objects. ah. So unwrapping it vs. saving it to inspect later vs. selling it unopened for less? also, is recentering the screen possible within the game now? Possible with this engine? The stuff about enemies crossing screen boundaries is inevitable with all the big areas, but it makes me feel like I'm gonna walk into a trap.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 22:46
|
|
|
RickVoid posted:I agree with all of this, but especially number one in particular. Right now playing a mutant feels like you're playing the Uncanny X-Men. I want playing a True Kin to feel like Deus Ex. Add another line of abilities that True Kin have access to during character creation for cybernetics. Hell, just make it so that True Kin have a set of starting funds (modified by Ego and caste, maybe?) and they get to purchase equipment during character creation. Nothing game breaking, but it could move Cybernetics out of something you might eventually reach if you are lucky to something you could realistically build a character around. Yesss I want to be able to lop my legs off as a True Kin to replace them with sweet-rear end cyborg legs that let me kick so hard people explode. Also on how stingers/wings eat up a vital back slot: Could it be possible to do them as giving their own slot (so stingers give a "Stinger" slot, same with wings giving a "Wing" slot) but put a DV penalty if you're also wearing a back item. This DV penalty could go down as you level them up (maybe -5 DV, decreasing by 1 every even level)? Another suggestion might be to differentiate mental and physical mutations, mental mutations generally have one effect while physical ones have multiple ones, an active and a passive. Flaming hands might provide Fire resistance, Freezing hands Cold resistance, and for something like Corrosive Gas Generation the passive benefit might be an immunity to breathing in toxins and +Poison Resistance. Enhanced Speed gives its speed boost (I'd cut its weakness) but once every thousand turns you can take a pile of hunger and thirst to double or triple your speed for a short period of time. Tightening carapace might let you trade DV for PV for a short period of time. Stuff like that. So physical effects might have long cooldowns that can't be easily reduced-but they're providing significant passive benefits all the time with some oh-poo poo buttons, whereas mental ones let you easily spam active effects.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2015 22:47
|
|
|
MJ12 posted:Another suggestion might be to differentiate mental and physical mutations, mental mutations generally have one effect while physical ones have multiple ones, an active and a passive. Flaming hands might provide Fire resistance, Freezing hands Cold resistance, and for something like Corrosive Gas Generation the passive benefit might be an immunity to breathing in toxins and +Poison Resistance. Enhanced Speed gives its speed boost (I'd cut its weakness) but once every thousand turns you can take a pile of hunger and thirst to double or triple your speed for a short period of time. Tightening carapace might let you trade DV for PV for a short period of time. Stuff like that. This is good. Being able to stand in farts is the best part of gas generation, and more physical mutations should be like that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 00:22
|
|
|
Speaking of which, I don't really see the point of tightening carapace. As soon as you do anything, it loosens, so you can't use it for a temporary pv boost in a fight, unless you're just trying to tank for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 00:32
|
|
|
Lprsti99 posted:Speaking of which, I don't really see the point of tightening carapace. As soon as you do anything, it loosens, so you can't use it for a temporary pv boost in a fight, unless you're just trying to tank for some reason. Pop a salve and tighten for a heal that can only be interrupted by explosives or vibroweapons. In the old version you could use mental mutations white tightened but you can't now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 00:36
|
|
|
dis astranagant posted:Pop a salve and tighten for a heal that can only be interrupted by explosives or vibroweapons. In the old version you could use mental mutations white tightened but you can't now. You can also try using it if you need to wait out a cooldown, or you've hit an enemy with a damage over time effect and just need to wait for them to die.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 01:28
|
|
|
ToxicFrog posted:The Dredmor thread has fallen into archives, so I'm asking here -- does anyone know if there's open literature on how Dredmor level generation works, such as the room/loot/monster placement algorithms? There's loads of information on the forums and wiki on how to add rooms and suchlike, but I can't find much on how the dungeon is actually generated. No clue, but aren't those guys still around on the forums for Clockwork Empires? You might be able to bug them directly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 01:28
|
|
|
Unormal/HoL, I'm curious, what are the top priorities when you guys start working on content and balance?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 01:52
|
|
|
Sergeant_Crunch posted:Unormal/HoL, I'm curious, what are the top priorities when you guys start working on content and balance? Finish up the main quest and some early areas like the six-day stilt.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:07
|
|
|
Happylisk posted:I stumbled upon a new roguelike that I really like - The Ground Gives Way. It reminds me of Brogue a lot. HP doesn't naturally regen, no race/class, no xp. Your character is defined by what you find and there's a lot to find. Very nice, clean interface too. Check it out!
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:33
|
|
|
Unormal posted:Finish up the main quest and some early areas like the six-day stilt. Dunno if this is now the Qud bug reporting forum but there's a weird graphical thing with Cryo since the last patch. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:49
|
|
|
Kyzrati posted:TGGW is amazing. The author is also working on a minimalist tileset version with a well-known pixel artist, though it'll be slow in coming. As is the ASCII is really well-done, and the game has a simple control scheme despite its deep mechanics and wide variety of gameplay that come from its huge number of items. One of my all-time favorites. To be honest, I don't really get The Ground Gives Way. Always felt like I was locked into fighting whatever charged at me (since the monsters are just as fast as you), the fairly low % on melee attacks (40-50%) made the game seem like luck was a massive part of whether you actually got past floor 1, and the game could decide to not give me a weapon until several floors in. The game feels really restricting in what I can do for strategy beyond "should I run away from this guy?". What am I missing?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:50
|
|
|
Roluth posted:To be honest, I don't really get The Ground Gives Way. Always felt like I was locked into fighting whatever charged at me (since the monsters are just as fast as you), the fairly low % on melee attacks (40-50%) made the game seem like luck was a massive part of whether you actually got past floor 1, and the game could decide to not give me a weapon until several floors in. The game feels really restricting in what I can do for strategy beyond "should I run away from this guy?". What am I missing? In the early game, don't be afraid to rest as often as you need to to recover HP. You'll find more food later. And there are a lot of little secrets to item interaction that you'll discover over time (like cooking food on a campfire to increase its benefits). Around the mid-game you can use lots of potions and scrolls for great benefits that last until you next rest, so with the right combination and/or a little luck you can make yourself quite powerful. It's kinda like DCSS in that you'll want to try to pre-ID a number of potions/scrolls and get some bad ones out of the way before splurging. Try not to engage anything that you're not assured of defeating easily (save that HP for when you absolutely must), and never fight more than monster at once.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:11
|
|
|
Jordan7hm posted:No clue, but aren't those guys still around on the forums for Clockwork Empires? You might be able to bug them directly. Yeah, but they're busy with CE, and apart from getting permission to build this thing in the first place I'd feel bad about constantly bugging them about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
So what roguelikes uses mouse controls the best so I can
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:21
|
|
|
doomrl
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:22
|
|
|
Unormal posted:So what roguelikes uses mouse controls the best so I can I like the way POWDER does it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:23
|
|
|
I've heard dungeonmans has good mouse controls but I still use the numpad because i fear change.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:30
|
|
|
There's a ton of new enemy tiles in the latest qud patch and they look wonderful. Also it seems like I don't get the "you pass over dirt" message every step I take anymore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 22:06 |
|
|
Unormal posted:Finish up the main quest and some early areas like the six-day stilt. How much longer is the main quest?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 04:57
|
|