OSad posted:

The Kongo is less accurate than the New York. Dispersion on the Kongo is 237 meters, while dispersion on the New York is 202 meters. It's actually less accurate than a Nagato, at 231 meters.

Hazdoc posted:

The AA part of that post is superb. It really clears up a lot of mysteries regarding AA. If you didn't read it, the main takeaway is that highlighting a squad with control click boosts your damage to that squad! I'll have to ensure I'm always control clicking the planes I want dead.

Spotting is also good to clear up, I was aware of most of them, but knowing the exact numbers on torpedo spotting is good. I'm pretty sure aircraft spotting of torpedoes was nerfed between the time this was posted and now, though. I'm fine with it being nerfed more, though!

cheese posted:

I definitely did not know that simply selecting a squad increased your damage. Good info.

Hazdoc posted:

The next big takeaway is that Defensive Fire only boosts the damage of your long range AA guns. Waiting to pop the ability when the planes get close isn't necessary to maximize its damage output, though if the CV decides to back their squad away it certainly helps to have them closer so their strike takes more damage.

TehKeen posted:

Here is a lot of good mechanical information about the game:

Spotting

Damage Mechanics

AA Functionality

Matchmaking

Skycancer

AA is multiplicative. Can't wait to get all of the AA upgrades on my US cruisers/captains.

I also think that this might mean that the Atlanta with Defensive Fire is one of the best AA platforms in the game, in terms of raw damage output (which is fitting, as a lot of people call them CLAAs. )

Pharnakes posted:

Are you sure underwater pen is still a thing? I though it got removed at the end of CBT, but I could be wrong. I'm sure I've been in situation where I should be getting underwater penned if it was possible and haven't been.

TSBX posted:

Hazdoc posted:

Ok, commander skills. This is going to be a long one. The recommendations I give each skill will go from (best to worst) "Required", "Recommended", "Good", "Mediocre", and "Avoid". Also, I'm going to make a few disclaimers. I have a grand total of 7 CV games. I do not have any commanders with access to the level 5 skills (though I did have one in CBT). I have not personally tried every skill, but I have done some research on what every skill actually does. As the game changes, the skills you want will also change. That also goes for the tier ship you have. I will mention when a skill taken at an early tier can actually lose its value on later ships. Also, commanders can only have a maximum of 19 skill points. If you want a skill from a later rank, you MUST have a skill of the preceding rank learned. Hence, if you want a Rank 5 skill, you need one of Ranks 1, 2, 3, and 4, meaning that a level 15 commander is the earliest you can have a Rank 5 skill, after investing 10 points in one of each of the preceding Ranks, leaving you 4 extra points to work with once you reach the level cap.

~Rank 1 Skills~

Expert Loader - 30% reduction to reload time if switching your ammo type. This skill doesn't work unless ALL of your primary armament guns are loaded already.
Mediocre on BBs, Avoid on all other ships.
This skill isn't very good. For most ships, you will know well ahead of time what sort of ammo you want in your guns. For DDs and US CAs especially, your reloads are usually fast enough that switching ammo on the fly is fairly quick. Only BBs, with their long reloads and love of AP, will find any use in this skill, and even then, this skill isn't great. AP can still do damage to DDs, and BB HE shells have an enormous fire chance. It's usually better to fire what you have loaded already, then it is to take this skill and reload 9 seconds faster.

Basic Firing Training - All guns (Primary AND Secondary Armaments) of caliber 155mm or less reload 10% faster. AA DPS is increased by 10%.
Required on US DDs, Recommended on IJN DDs. Required on US CAs up to Tier 6 (Erie, Chester, St. Louis, Phoenix, Omaha, Cleveland), Recommended on US CAs 7+. Required on IJN CAs Tiers 1-4, and optionally T7 (Hashidate, Chikuma, Tenryuu, Kuma, and the 155mm triple turreted Mogami), Good on all other IJN CAs. Good on all BBs. Good on CVs.
Basic Firing Training is overall a VERY good skill, but this is the first skill that falls off as you grow in tiers, assuming you are going down the cruiser lines. While the AA damage increase stays relevant, US CAs no longer have their primary armament benefit from the ROF increase at T7. AA potency is still very important to them. IJN CAs lose this skill's benefit earlier, at T5, but get it back at T7, should you choose to run the Mogami with its stock turrets, which are 155mm. If you choose not to, you once again lose the bonus to your primary armament. IJN AA isn't as good as US AA, but it is still deadly enough, so this skill remains a good option. All DDs benefit from this skill boosting the fire rate of their primary armament. US DDs utilize their guns more, however, making it a larger priority. IJN DDs can still make good use of the skill. BBs, while they never carry primary armament capable of using the ROF boost, still have their AA boosted, and their secondaries all get a boost to their DPS. This is not a bad choice for them, especially as it is a 1 point skill. CVs typically don't want to be relying on their AA or secondaries, but when they have to, a boost to their effectiveness is something that won't be missed, making this a good choice for literally every ship in the game.

Basics of Survivability - 15% reduced time to repair modules, extinguish fires, and stop flooding.
Required on all BBs. Recommended on all CAs. Mediocre on all DDs. Recommended on all CVs.
Repair times in WoWS can get fairly long, with engine failures, rudder damage, and flooding lasting up to 90 seconds at times. BBs have a 120 second damage control reload, CAs/CVs have 90 seconds, and DDs have 60 second reloads. For BBs, fire and flooding damage can devastate your lifebar if left unchecked, and engine or rudder damage will spell your doom. CAs don't take quite nearly as much damage from fire, but relying on your damage control too much will get you killed eventually. Critical Turret damage will get repaired faster, letting you bring your guns back into the fight sooner. DDs can make use of this ability as well, but there are better skills to safeguard them. DDs fast reloading damage controls and the small amount of fire damage they take mitigates the usefulness of this skill. CVs typically face a great amount of threat from being firebombed after a torpedo run. As their damage controls take a lengthy amount of time to reload, this skill can be a lifesaver. This is additionally useful, as fires prevent you from launching or landing planes, so extinguishing them faster while your damage control is on cooldown brings you back into the fight sooner.

Situation Awareness - When detected by enemy ships or planes, an indicator will light up. The indicator changes if you are detected only by a plane (plane symbol by the icon), or if you are detected by an enemy ship (normal icon).
Required on all DDs. Good on all CAs. Mediocre on all BBs. Recommended on all CVs.
This skill has a multitude of uses, the most important for a DD commander being that of knowing when one can advance without fear of enemy attack. Knowing when you are concealed is extremely important to making successful torpedo runs, as well as scouting or flanking high value enemy targets, such as CVs, and hiding in smoke successfully. This also lets you know when you've been spotted by another DD or a plane, allowing you to take the measures necessary to protect yourself, or hunt the enemy DD. This skill is fairly useless on BBs, as they have very low concealment and will typically be shooting their guns at everything and anything in range. It isn't useless, just pretty close to it. Low tier cruisers can also remain concealed, letting them sneak up closer to enemies before firing, and knowing when you have been spotted helps in deciding what maneuvers to make, especially on awful maps, like the Ocean map. This also can serve as an early warning for enemy DDs, as if you are spotted but do not see who is detecting you, you may be near an enemy DD and must prepare for the potential of torpedoes. More advanced players can even try to figure out what lines of sight could be spotting them, giving them an idea of where the enemy DD could be located. This applies to CVs as well. An enemy DD sneaking through your team and going after you will trigger situation awareness, and when the indicator lights up, you can start taking defensive measures and alert your team.

Expert Rear Gunner - 10% increase in damage of the rear gunners in aircraft that have one.
Avoid on DDs, CAs, and BBs. Good on CVs.
Fighters (from what I can tell) do not have rear gunners, and not all Torpedo Bombers or Dive Bombers have them either. This is a skill you should probably be doing some research on before you take, as the information I gathered was very... imprecise. From what I can tell, Dive Bombers tend to have rear gunners the most, and I couldn't find any on the Tier 10 CVs. This skill is a mystery, and until WG decides to put the rear gunner stats into the game, I'd be cautious. We don't even know how effective these rear gunners ARE. I'll tentatively place this as "good" for CVs, but this is useless for every other ship. Take this skill with caution, and protect your rear. With an expert. An expert rear gunner, if you know what I mean.

~Rank 2 Skills~

Aiming Expert - Artillery of 155mm and smaller aim 2.7 degrees faster. Artillery of a caliber higher than 155mm turn 0.7 degrees faster.
Required on all BBs, and all CAs. Recommended on all DDs. Avoid on CVs.
This skill turns your turrets faster. It drops off at the same time as Basic Firing Training, but retains a bonus, just not as strong as one for the smaller turrets. Bringing turrets to bear on target faster is vital to killing things faster, which saves your life and the lives of your allies. US DDs at the highest tiers have extremely fast turret rotation, so this skill can be a bit redundant, and is the only possible situation where this skill is not a great pick. Well, other than CVs, which get no bonus at all.

Torpedo Armament Expertise - Torpedo Armament and Torpedo Bomber Squadrons reload/resupply 10% faster.
Required on IJN DDs. Recommended on US DDs. Good on IJN CAs (except the Hashidate and Chikuma, which do not carry torpedoes). Mediocre on the T4 Phoenix and the T5 Omaha, Avoid on other US CAs. Avoid on BBs. Required on all CVs.
While US DDs don't get great torpedoes until Tier 9, their torpedoes have uses and therefore benefit from the skill a good amount. IJN DDs rely on their torpedoes as their primary tool to deal with enemy ships, making this required. IJN CAs can take this skill, though their torpedoes are limited by bad tube placement, limited amount of tubes to shoot from, and less concealment to make stealthy torp runs. However, IJN CA torpedoes get REALLY good at T6 (the Kuma has an honorable mention for decent torps), and their torps often match the stock torpedoes of their tier counterparts in IJN DDs. Tier 10 Zao's torpedoes are one of the selling points of the ship, with a blazing hot 76 knot speed, the fastest in game. CVs will also want this skill, though it doesn't grant them quite as large a bonus as it does to ships with torpedo armament. But as TB squads are the main DPS of a CV, faster reloading is good. The only time it won't be useful is if you're running a no TB loadout, which is... well, bad. Don't do that if you can help it.

Fire Prevention - 7% reduced chance of fire.
Recommended on BBs, Mediocre on all CAs, and all DDs. Good on CVs.
Ok, so I'm PRETTY sure the chance of fire reduction is multiplicative, but WG has no confirmation on this. This isn't a flat reduction to the chance a dive bomb or HE shell will light you on fire, which greatly diminishes how good it could be. But this skill is still useful, as fire is a constant threat to BBs and CVs alike. While you won't see the effect ever save your life, the invisible power of this skill is still something to keep in mind. CAs have other skills to choose, though this isn't a wasted choice, just a non-optimal one. DD fire damage is low, and skillpoints are tight, so take a pass on this one.

Incoming Fire Alert - When guns are locked on to you and fired with a time to impact of 6+ seconds, an indicator will light up.
Good on BBs, Good on CAs, Mediocre on DDs, Mediocre on CVs. Avoid if you already have Situation Awareness.
Disclaimer: I have never used this skill. BBs can make use of it, however, in knowing when they have been fired upon at long range, allowing them to begin maneuvers to mitigate damage. The same can be said for CAs, who have a bit more speed and less HP, making it arguably more useful. DDs, however, should be taking Situation Awareness, and therefore should assume they are being fired upon when they are detected, as they are usually priority targets with their dangerous torpedoes and low HP pools. To add to that, this skill only works on shells with a TTI of 6+ seconds, so close range fire is both difficult to avoid and won't be detected. CVs aren't quite nearly maneuverable enough to make use of this skill, and benefit more from Situation Awareness. Just as a note, though, if you pay attention to enemy ships well enough, this skill can be ignored for the most part. Knowing when you are being shot at is something one can typically learn after a point. I suggest you save your 2 points for something else.

~Rank 3 Skills~

High Alert - 10% reduction in reload time of Damage Control Party.
Required on BBs, Recommended on CAs and CVs, Good on DDs.
BBs will save 12 seconds on reloading their DC, CAs/CVs will save 9, DDs will save 6. The Damage Control Party is a very useful tool, and reducing its cooldown means less fires, less flooding, and less downtime due to damaged guns, torpedo tubes, and engines. DDs get the least benefit, however, and have 2 other choices at this Rank that they should take instead. Fires are not terribly life-ending for DDs, and if they are flooding, the torpedo probably killed them as well. Engine/Rudder damage is the primary thing a DD pops its DC for, and if you suffer damage again... using it 6 seconds earlier is probably 30 seconds too late.

Vigilance - Torpedo detection range is increased by 20%.
Recommended on CAs, BBs, and DDs. Mediocre on CVs.
BBs should be taking High Alert instead, but this is another great choice. Cruisers who do not take High Alert can instead take this. DDs who do not take Superintendent should absolutely take this. This skill is very useful in protecting yourself, and your allies, from torpedo attacks. BB commanders will love you for spotting a deadly spread of torpedoes aimed for them in time to dodge, and every second counts when making maneuvers, especially with faster torpedoes at higher tiers. CVs can get away with not taking this, however, as they should be in a position to avoid getting torped already, and will have difficulty in avoiding torps in the first place. Rely on Situation Awareness to alert you to the potential of torpedoes and put yourself in a position to not eat torps. Not a wasted choice, though.

Dogfighting Expert - Fighters gain a damage increase when fighting enemy fighters with a higher flight speed than their own.
Avoid on all except CVs. Recommended on CVs.
So uhh... this is an interesting skill. This skill is best used when you are the tier underdog, as your fighters will be slower than the enemy fighters. This gives you a damage boost to even the odds. You will likely need to compare your fighter cruise speed to your opponent's though, and this skill doesn't actually tell you how much of a damage boost you get. Also, if you are a US CV, the T10 Midway has the fastest fighters in the game. This skill could potentially prove useless to you at that point. Another skill to take with caution (loving CVs man, so many exceptions).

Superintendent - +1 use to all consumables with limited uses.
Recommended on DDs. Good on BBs and high tier CAs (any with the Repair Party consumable), mediocre on mid tier CAs, avoid on low tier CAs. Avoid on CVs.
This skill increase the uses of the Smoke Generator, Engine Boost, Catapult Fighter, Scout Plane, and Repair Party consumables. DDs only have 2 charges of their 2 class consumable, therefore making this skill great on them. BBs can potentially get planes, and the Repair Party is a good consumable, making this a decent choice, but arguably not over High Alert. CAs do not have charges for their Hydroacoustic Search or Defensive Fire skills, only getting a bonus charge of their Catapult Fighters, should they have one. Note that some high tier cruisers also get Repair Party, making superintendent not a terrible choice. CVs get none of these, and should avoid this skill.

~Rank 4 Skills~

Demolition Expert - +3% chance to cause a fire with an HE shell or dive bomb.
Recommended on all DDs and CAs. Mediocre on BBs. Avoid on CVs.
I'm pretty sure the chance of fire this skill grants is also multiplicative, much like Fire Prevention mentioned before. DDs get the most out of this skill, with their shells having the lowest chance of inflicting fire. CAs, especially the Atlanta, also like to shoot HE, making this a decent choice for them. BBs typically fire AP, therefore this skill is bad on them. Their HE shells already carry a weighty chance of inflicting fire. CV dive bombs already have a hilariously high chance of fire, and they have a far superior choice at this skill rank to make.

Advanced Firing Training - +20% range to all armament (primary and secondary) of 155mm caliber and smaller. +20% range to AA guns.
Good on all DDs. Recommended on US CAs up to Tier 6 (Erie, Chester, St. Louis, Phoenix, Omaha, Cleveland), Good on US CAs 7+. Recommended on IJN CAs Tiers 1-4, and optionally T7 (Hashidate, Chikuma, Tenryuu, Kuma, and the 155mm triple turreted Mogami), Good on all other IJN CAs. Good on all BBs. Good on CVs.
This skill is very similar to Basic Firing Training, but increases the range of the armament, rather than the reload time. Note that an increase in range does not increase your shell's velocity, making a shot outside of your normal range take longer than usual. The increase to secondary range also makes some hilarious cases where IJN BBs can have ridiculous range on their secondaries. The increase on AA range is also highly desired by CAs, BBs, and CVs alike, though CVs do have a different skill they should take here.

Last Stand - Damage to the rudder does not jam the rudder, instead inflicting a minor penalty to rudder shift time. Damage to the engine does not cut speed to a crawl, instead max speed is reduced to 3/4ths, and gaining speed becomes difficult.
Required on all DDs. Recommended on all CAs. Good on BBs. Mediocre on CVs.
This skill is INCREDIBLE on DDs, and I cannot overstate this. The 2 biggest culprits for dead DDs, a knocked out engine and rudder, are basically gone. This skill can be useful for CAs as well, as a disabled rudder is both horrifying and terribly common. BBs can also make use of this skill, as engine damage is pretty bad, and a rudder failure can potentially make it impossible to fire on targets, as well as put you at severe risk of citadel hits and torpedoes. CVs can also make use of this skill, but if they are suffering this sort of damage, they likely have more important things to worry about, like flooding and fire. They also have a better skill to take at Rank 4.

Aircraft Servicing Expert - -10% time to aircraft servicing, and +5% aircraft HP.
Avoid on all except CVs. Required on CVs.
A pretty straightforward skill. Easy power for a CV, having this skill gives you a straight advantage over CVs without it, and evens the odds against those who do. Don't be a dumb CV and not take this skill at Rank 4.

~Rank 5 Skills~ have you considered going outside lately?

Last Chance - 9% reload time to all armament (Primary, Secondary, AA, and Torpedo) when at 20% health or less.
Mediocre on BBs, Mediocre on CAs and DDs, avoid on CVs.
When it comes to Rank 5 skills, I'm going to be much harsher. You can only have 1 rank 5 skill ever, and these skills take a whopping 5 points to learn. For 5 points, this is a pretty bad skill. While 9% faster reloading sounds great for BB guns and DD torpedoes, you have to be at very low HP to get the bonus. While BBs can repair their way back up if things get too dangerous, DDs cannot. DDs cannot also reliably get themselves to 20% HP to benefit from this skill, as that puts them at 3kish HP left, one cough away from death, and likely costing them a turret or two in the process. If you want MAX DEEPS, though, then why not. I'm not going to judge you (yes I will). Also, I'm not sure if this skill actually boosts AA damage. I just made that up, just so this skill looks a little better than absolutely hilariously bad.

Preventative Maintenance - 34% reduction to the chance of modules getting critically damaged.
Recommended on BBs, Good on CAs, Good on DDs, Mediocre on CVs. DO NOT TAKE IF YOU TOOK LAST STAND!
Eh, this is the safest Rank 5 skill to take for all ships. You can always go without it if you want, and put the points in a number of lesser skills, if this isn't for you. This is another "invisible power" skill, so you won't notice when this skill is saving your dumb, probably on fire, rear end. BBs will enjoy the reduced chance of everything being crit, letting them save their repairs for fire and flooding. CAs will like this skill as well, as they suffer critical damage more often, though they may want to take Jack of all Trades instead. DDs would like this skill... but this skill is wasted if you took Last Stand. As Last Stand virtually negates the side effects of critical damage to the Engines and Rudder, this skill becomes much less useful. Don't take both, and if you were going to take this, consider why. Is it for because you are suffering engine and rudder damage often? Take Last Stand instead! A final note, this skill does nothing to reduce the chance of a module being destroyed. If your gun gets smashed, its gone, skill or not.

Concealment Expert - The range at which your ship is detected is reduced. 10% for DDs, 12% for CAs, 14% for BBs, and 16% for CVs.
Required on DDs. Good on lower tier CAs (especially IJN, like the Kuma), Mediocre on higher tier CAs. Mediocre on BBs. Good on CVs (but you shouldn't). Combos nicely with Situation Awareness.
Concealment is great. DDs live and die by their concealment, making this an obvious choice for them. CAs unfortunately lose concealment as they rise in tiers, but this can give them back a little bit of stealthiness before they are detected. BBs get a larger bonus, but their concealment is awful to begin with. Even less useful as they shoot often and lose almost all concealment at that point. CVs can make use of this skill... but there is a VERY IMPORTANT SKILL AT RANK 5 THEY SHOULD BE TAKING INSTEAD! In fact, it is the very next one!

Air Supremacy - +1 Fighter and Dive Bomber added to squadrons.
Required on CVs, avoid on all else.
This is a why you're at Rank 5 for CVs. More fighters in a squad means more damage to enemy planes, and a longer life for that squadron. More Dive Bombers in a squad means 1 more bomb is dropped in a run, boosting their rather weak damage. Unfortunately (or fortunately, if you aren't the CV commander), this doesn't apply to Torpedo Bombers.

Jack of all Trades - All consumables have their reload times reduced by 10%.
Good on CAs, Recommended on high tier CAs especially, Recommended on BBs, Good on DDs, Mediocre on CVs.
High Tier CAs will enjoy this skill, as it will affect all 4 of their consumables. Lower tiered ones still can still make good use of this skill. DDs can make use of it, but should take Concealment Expert instead. BBs can take this instead of Preventative Maintenance, as this skill reduces the cooldown on both Damage Control Party and Repair Party, boosting survivability. CVs shouldn't be taking this in lieu of Air Supremacy, as this skill will only boost their Damage Control Party. Decent all around, and if more consumables are added to the game, this skill can only get better.

counterfeitsaint posted:

After digging through 20 pages, making another request to put this in the OP

Hazdoc posted:

It should be. I know that they did nerf how much speed AP shells have after hitting the water so that it only really works on DDs. HE doesn't do anything if it hits the water, that's for sure.

Zo posted:

Well I sunk 6 boats (nabbed that 6 kill award too) including 2 BBs and a CV in one of my first DD games ever, so i guess im just gonna play DD forever in this game.

Tank Boy Ken posted:

^^
Or just link the post from the OP.

Also had a very nice round in the New York (premium time active):

Zero Gravitas posted:

Are camo paints worth it? I get the feeling they arent but I thought Id check.

Night10194 posted:

The DD life is exciting and awesome.

22 Eargesplitten posted:

I think having the turret rotation skill should help a little bit at least. I haven't finished retraining my commander for the myogi yet,though. Not sure why people say it's so inaccurate. On paper, it's slightly more accurate than the Wyoming, maybe there are hidden modifiers or something.

How do I aim to drop shells on their deck? If I aim a little high, won't they just overshoot?

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Okay, so at that range, do I just aim for the very top of their hull and hope for upward dispersion, or is there more to it.

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Not sure why people say it's so inaccurate. On paper, it's slightly more accurate than the Wyoming, maybe there are hidden modifiers or something.