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LookieLoo
Feb 10, 2011

Samuel posted:

...Which I forget to mention had men in white biosuits and respirators working on it...

...It's absolutely speculative to say it wouldn't be properly removed in time before it was stolen. It just further proves that thieves got to it before the proper removal services got to it...

I'm reading the IAEA report on the incident and you seem to be confused on the timeline of events.
The white suits were not worn during demolition, as their was no radiological contamination then, but only afterwards during the decontamination efforts.
And it's not speculation to say that it wasn't removed in time as it had been sitting in a demolition site for two years before the looters got to it.

http://www-pub.iaea.org/mtcd/publications/pdf/pub815_web.pdf

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Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
I'm pretty sure not properly disposing of radioactive waste is also a crime so maybe both parties are wrong!!!

Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart❤️
No Soul👻
No Service🙅
Lotta people in this thread getting mad without even bothering to read the wikipedia article or anything

quote:

Four months before the theft, on May 4, 1987, Saura Taniguti, then director of Ipasgo, the institute of insurance for civil servants, used police force to prevent one of the owners of IGR, Carlos Figueiredo Bezerril, from removing the objects that were left behind.[6] Figueiredo then warned the president of Ipasgo, Lício Teixeira Borges, that he should take responsibility "for what would happen with the caesium bomb".[6]

The court posted a security guard to protect the hazardous abandoned equipment.[7] Meanwhile, the owners of IGR wrote several letters to the National Nuclear Energy Commission, warning them about the danger of keeping a teletherapy unit at an abandoned site, but they could not remove the equipment by themselves once a court order prevented them from doing so.[6][7]
People really really wanted to clean it up but legal fuckery (re: government corruption) prevented them from it.

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

Imagine if you will a bank shuts down but leaves a pile of money in the vault. This pile of money is radioactive and makes anyone who comes in contact with it horribly sick. Those who are in charge of the bank and responsible for its contents know the danger the money poses but they take their sweet time in dealing with properly disposing of it. Scavengers break into the poorly secured building looking for anything valuable to loot. They find the money and don't know that it's dangerous so they spend it, spreading sickness into the local community.

What could have more easily have prevented this from happening?

Proper precaution and timely action by those who were responsible for the money and knew its danger?

or

Every criminal in the area deciding to either go straight or to carry geiger counters to every job?

JFairfax
Oct 23, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
Liberal Bee Jays Kill:

In a tragic accident that has left a Kansas community in mourning, a bat boy hit in the head by a player taking practice swings Saturday has died of his injuries. Kaiser Carlile, 9, was a well-loved part of the Liberal Bee Jays, a summer league team for college players.

Photos of Carlile show him as a freckle-faced boy: hustling around the field, sitting in the dugout and talking with the players. But during his team's National Baseball Congress World Series game Saturday in Wichita, he was hit in the head by a bat as he ran past the on-deck circle after an out.

Carlile was wearing a helmet, witnesses say, when he was struck while retrieving a bat. The boy quickly received medical attention — from both the home plate umpire, who reportedly works as a paramedic, and from a team of EMTs who were already responding to another call at the stadium, according to The Wichita Eagle.




smacked upside the head by a bat, poor kid probably never saw it coming

Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart❤️
No Soul👻
No Service🙅

FIRST TIME posted:

Imagine if you will...
Imagine if you will the owners saying 'hey let's clean up this radioactive money' and the government says 'no you can't and we'll post guards to stop you' and you say 'ok well pretty please can I clean this up?' and they say 'still no' and you write letters to anyone that cares saying 'please let me clean this up this is insanely dangerous'. And months later the money is stolen.

Who is at fault here? Clearly the owners.


vvv alright fair enough.

Darkhold fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Aug 4, 2015

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

Darkhold posted:

Imagine if you will the owners saying 'hey let's clean up this radioactive money' and the government says 'no you can't and we'll post guards to stop you' and you say 'ok well pretty please can I clean this up?' and they say 'still no' and you write letters to anyone that cares saying 'please let me clean this up this is insanely dangerous'. And months later the money is stolen.

Who is at fault here? Clearly the owners.

I was more making the point that the clueless thieves weren't as responsible as whoever prevented the proper disposal in the first place. So yeah, add the government part into my story.

Zopotantor
Feb 24, 2013

...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

Minimalist Program posted:

there's like 5 guns in the entire country and the police has those.

It's OK, their most dangerous criminals look like this:

Samuel
Nov 5, 2011
I think breaking into a decommissioned radiological institute is pretty retard tier, even for criminals.

It reminds me of Russia's "nuclear powered" lighthouses which had also been looted clean. But if anybody dies of Plutonium induced cancer in Russia nobody bats an eye I guess.

I think we should take Chris Rock's advice on the matter that if somebody says: "Nah I wouldn't do that poo poo if I was you" You probably shouldn't do it. You know, like copper thieves getting electrocuted every year.

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Samuel posted:

I think breaking into a decommissioned radiological institute is pretty retard tier, even for criminals.

It reminds me of Russia's "nuclear powered" lighthouses which had also been looted clean. But if anybody dies of Plutonium induced cancer in Russia nobody bats an eye I guess.

I think we should take Chris Rock's advice on the matter that if somebody says: "Nah I wouldn't do that poo poo if I was you" You probably shouldn't do it. You know, like copper thieves getting electrocuted every year.

Nuclear seed irridiators are strewn all across the Balkans and would make a nasty dirty bomb. Plus nuclear generators that work off the Seebeck(?) principle

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013



JFairfax posted:

Liberal Bee Jays Kill:

In a tragic accident that has left a Kansas community in mourning, a bat boy hit in the head by a player taking practice swings Saturday has died of his injuries. Kaiser Carlile, 9, was a well-loved part of the Liberal Bee Jays, a summer league team for college players.

Photos of Carlile show him as a freckle-faced boy: hustling around the field, sitting in the dugout and talking with the players. But during his team's National Baseball Congress World Series game Saturday in Wichita, he was hit in the head by a bat as he ran past the on-deck circle after an out.

Carlile was wearing a helmet, witnesses say, when he was struck while retrieving a bat. The boy quickly received medical attention — from both the home plate umpire, who reportedly works as a paramedic, and from a team of EMTs who were already responding to another call at the stadium, according to The Wichita Eagle.




smacked upside the head by a bat, poor kid probably never saw it coming

God drat it. That's just... god drat it.

LookieLoo
Feb 10, 2011

Samuel posted:

I think breaking into a decommissioned radiological institute is pretty retard tier, even for criminals.

It reminds me of Russia's "nuclear powered" lighthouses which had also been looted clean. But if anybody dies of Plutonium induced cancer in Russia nobody bats an eye I guess.

I think we should take Chris Rock's advice on the matter that if somebody says: "Nah I wouldn't do that poo poo if I was you" You probably shouldn't do it. You know, like copper thieves getting electrocuted every year.

You are amazing.

Edit: Page 95 of the IAEA report I linked to above has pictures of what you call a "decommissioned radiological institute" and the demolition site, please just look at it as you have made many assumptions that are just plain wrong.

Edit 2: Here look

LookieLoo fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Aug 4, 2015

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

JFairfax posted:

Liberal Bee Jays Kill:

In a tragic accident that has left a Kansas community in mourning, a bat boy hit in the head by a player taking practice swings Saturday has died of his injuries. Kaiser Carlile, 9, was a well-loved part of the Liberal Bee Jays, a summer league team for college players.

Photos of Carlile show him as a freckle-faced boy: hustling around the field, sitting in the dugout and talking with the players. But during his team's National Baseball Congress World Series game Saturday in Wichita, he was hit in the head by a bat as he ran past the on-deck circle after an out.

Carlile was wearing a helmet, witnesses say, when he was struck while retrieving a bat. The boy quickly received medical attention — from both the home plate umpire, who reportedly works as a paramedic, and from a team of EMTs who were already responding to another call at the stadium, according to The Wichita Eagle.




smacked upside the head by a bat, poor kid probably never saw it coming

I'm sorry I just keep getting stuck at the bit where there's a baseball team called the Liberal Bee Jays.

Segmentation Fault
Jun 7, 2012

GotLag posted:

I'm sorry I just keep getting stuck at the bit where there's a baseball team called the Liberal Bee Jays.

They're not even from Arkansas.

Samuel
Nov 5, 2011

LookieLoo posted:

You are amazing.

Edit: Page 95 of the IAEA report I linked to above has pictures of what you call a "decommissioned radiological institute" and the demolition site, please just look at it as you have made many assumptions that are just plain wrong.

Edit 2: Here look

Looks like somewhere I shouldn't be to me. :tipshat:

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Samuel posted:

Looks like somewhere I shouldn't be to me. :tipshat:

it was Goiânia in 1987, I think your expectation of what buildings in poor neighborhoods looked like is a bit uh, inaccurate.

Samuel
Nov 5, 2011
Yeah, I read up on it it's pretty much a clusterfuck of poo poo that happened or couldn't happen. I still think the police and the local government is more accountable than the atomic agency though, the courts did post a guard and the dudes DID manage to bypass him when he was distracted to loot that sweet sweet radioactive material.

My previous statements aren't a correct recount of actual events though as the one in my language was incomplete, and THEN I read the English one which gave a better perspective of how it went down.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Samuel posted:

Yeah, I read up on it it's pretty much a clusterfuck of poo poo that happened or couldn't happen. I still think the police and the local government is more accountable than the atomic agency though, the courts did post a guard and the dudes DID manage to bypass him when he was distracted to loot that sweet sweet radioactive material.

My previous statements aren't a correct recount of actual events though as the one in my language was incomplete, and THEN I read the English one which gave a better perspective of how it went down.

What are you talking about? Vagrants had been living in the room where the source was stored. There was no bypassing the the guard to loot poo poo.

The IAEA posted:


It is now known that at about the end of 1985 a private radiotherapy institute, the Institute Goiano de Radioterapia in Goiania, Brazil, moved to new premises, taking with it a cobalt-60 teletherapy unit and leaving m place a caesium-137 tele- therapy unit without notifying the licensing authority as required under the terms of the institute's licence. The former premises were subsequently partly demolished. As a result, the caesium-137 teletherapy unit became totally insecure
...

The Institute Goiano de Radioterapia (IGR) was a private radiotherapy institute owned by a medical partnership. The treatment facilities of the institute's clinic included rooms for teletherapy with caesium-137 and cobalt-60. The IGR had followed the normal licensing procedure described in Section 2.3 and on
17 June 1971 CNEN approved the importation of the caesium-137 source. Shortly afterwards the equipment was installed and inspected and became operational. Under the terms of the operating licence issued by CNEN, a physicist and a physician (one of the partners) were jointly responsible for ensuring that the conditions of the licence were complied with. In particular, there was a requirement that any significant change in the status of the equipment or the facilities had to be reported to CNEN.
It is now known that at about the end of 1985 the IGR ceased operating from these premises and a new partnership took over other premises. The cobalt-60 teletherapy unit was moved to these other premises. Ownership of the contents of the IGR clinic was disputed and the caesium-137 teletherapy unit was left in place. CNEN did not receive appropriate notifications of these changes in status, as required under the terms of the institute's licence. Most of the clinic, together with some surrounding properties, was demolished. The treatment rooms were not demolished but were left in a derelict state and were apparently used by vagrants. (See Photographs 1-3.)
The circumstances that led to the abandonment of the teletherapy machine complete with its caesium-137 source in the old clinic, its becoming insecure and subsequently being broken up have not been completely clarified. Moreover, at the time of writing they are the subject of legal proceedings. However, nothing can deflect from the fact that the professional and moral responsibility for the security of a radioactive source must lie with the person or persons licensed as responsible for it.
...
R.A. had heard rumours that valuable equipment had been left in
1987
the disused clinic of the IGR (Location A). R.A. and a friend, W.P., went to the site of the disused clinic and tried to dismantle the tele- therapy unit with simple tools. R.A. and W.P. finally succeeded in removing the rotating assembly. The shiny stainless steel casing appeared valuable to them and they took it in a wheelbarrow to R.A. 's house (Location B), half a kilometre from the clinic.
...
Recognition by the general public of the potential danger of radiation sources is an important factor in lessening the likelihood of radiological accidents. Due consideration should be given to a system of markings for radiation hazards that would be recognizable to the wider public.


The source container wasn't even marked with a danger symbol. The IAEA now has a new symbol for just this kind of situation:



(Def. one of the best scary warning signs ever btw)


quote:

The symbol is intended for IAEA Category 1, 2 and 3 sources defined as dangerous sources capable of death or serious injury, including food irradiators, teletherapy machines for cancer treatment and industrial radiography units. The symbol is to be placed on the device housing the source, as a warning not to dismantle the device or to get any closer. It will not be visible under normal use, only if someone attempts to disassemble the device. The symbol will not be located on building access doors, transportation packages or containers.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Trabisnikof posted:

What are you talking about? Vagrants had been living in the room where the source was stored. There was no bypassing the the guard to loot poo poo.



The source container wasn't even marked with a danger symbol. The IAEA now has a new symbol for just this kind of situation:



(Def. one of the best scary warning signs ever btw)

Right to left: This thing is awesome, grab it and run before before someone kills you and takes it from you.

Segmentation Fault
Jun 7, 2012

Trabisnikof posted:



(Def. one of the best scary warning signs ever btw)

Angels will descend from the heavens onto bones and running people?

Also if we're discussing scary messages the WIPP has everyone beat.

quote:

This place is not a place of honor.

No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.

Nothing valued is here.

This place is a message and part of a system of messages.

Pay attention to it!

Sending this message was important to us.

We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.



http://www.wipp.energy.gov/picsprog/articles/wipp%20exhibit%20message%20to%2012,000%20a_d.htm
http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/ten-thousand-years/

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Segmentation Fault posted:

This place is not a place of honor.

No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.

Nothing valued is here.

This place is a message and part of a system of messages.

Pay attention to it!

Sending this message was important to us.

We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.


Sounds like a evangelical christian sex-ed discussion :v:

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

quote:

This place is not a place of honor.

No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.

Nothing valued is here.

This place is a message and part of a system of messages.

Pay attention to it!

Sending this message was important to us.

We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.

Hmm, this loot must be really good if they don't want us to have it.

Humans gonna human. :shrug:

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Yeah we're not talking about idiots stealing something that was clearly dangerous from a guarded site. We're talking about illiterate impoverished people in one of the countries most-crowded with teeming masses of illiterate poor, noticing a thing made of shiny metal in a derelict abandoned demolished building site slash homeless encampment, and attempting to salvage the metal for money, in exactly the same way that right now loads of people basically live at garbage dumps sifting through garbage to salvage anything possibly worth a few cents.

It wasn't labeled as radioactive, and even if it was, these aren't like Westerners who - even if poor and homeless - can be expected to have been exposed to at least a basic elementary school education, and a culture where dangerous things are signposted and people get arrested for breaking rules and there are societal norms about taking basic precautions.

This is a country where the electrical infrastructure looks like this:



And the streets of cities look like this:



Blaming the scavengers for the accident is the worst sort of myopic patriarchal Western ignorance. It's like blaming people living in brazilian favelas for their children getting lead poisoning, or blaming civilians in afghanistan for "supporting" the taliban warlords who run their lives, or blaming North Korean citizens for their unwavering support of their brutal dictator. These people had not the slightest clue that they were in danger, and they were living in a situation where scavenging a couple dollars of clearly abandoned metal scrap might feed their families for another week. They're victims in every meaning of the word, and what happened to them was a huge wake-up call that corruption and red tape was killing innocent people.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Aug 4, 2015

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

I don't think anyone was saying this was the scavengers' fault, everyone was saying it was a gently caress up between the company that abandoned the site and/or the corrupt local government wanting bribes before letting them finish cleanup. (I do see one comment about savages but that was pretty obviously sarcastic.)

E: Oh Samuel's post, NM then.

A Shitty Reporter
Oct 29, 2012
Dinosaur Gum

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

naw man it's a huge problem I read about it in a 55 year old UU high school teacher's blog on Daily Kos

as if you ever saw a cop in your life you immobile mass of bed sores and pit stench

ol qwerty bastard
Dec 13, 2005

If you want something done, do it yourself!

Leperflesh posted:

Yeah we're not talking about idiots stealing something that was clearly dangerous from a guarded site. We're talking about illiterate impoverished people in one of the countries most-crowded with teeming masses of illiterate poor, noticing a thing made of shiny metal in a derelict abandoned demolished building site slash homeless encampment, and attempting to salvage the metal for money, in exactly the same way that right now loads of people basically live at garbage dumps sifting through garbage to salvage anything possibly worth a few cents.

It wasn't labeled as radioactive, and even if it was, these aren't like Westerners who - even if poor and homeless - can be expected to have been exposed to at least a basic elementary school education, and a culture where dangerous things are signposted and people get arrested for breaking rules and there are societal norms about taking basic precautions.

This is a country where the electrical infrastructure looks like this:



And the streets of cities look like this:



Blaming the scavengers for the accident is the worst sort of myopic patriarchal Western ignorance. It's like blaming people living in brazilian favelas for their children getting lead poisoning, or blaming civilians in afghanistan for "supporting" the taliban warlords who run their lives, or blaming North Korean citizens for their unwavering support of their brutal dictator. These people had not the slightest clue that they were in danger, and they were living in a situation where scavenging a couple dollars of clearly abandoned metal scrap might feed their families for another week. They're victims in every meaning of the word, and what happened to them was a huge wake-up call that corruption and red tape was killing innocent people.

Just gonna quote this in case you figure out that you spent an entire post berating people for being ignorant westerners while simultaneously mistaking a relatively wealthy city in Brazil for the slums of India. :allears:

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

ol qwerty bastard posted:

Just gonna quote this in case you figure out that you spent an entire post berating people for being ignorant westerners while simultaneously mistaking a relatively wealthy city in Brazil for the slums of India. :allears:

I specifically mentioned favelas in Brazil, though? I guess those photos are from India but you can find similar ones for Brazil.






e. I had the strong impression this took place in or near a favela. If this was actually a really wealthy city in which metal salvaging was an unusual thing, then OK... my bad there. I don't think it changes my point at all, though; blaming the victims for their ignorance is disgusting and it makes me irrationally angry.

e2. aaaand, I guess it's really just Samuel, and this is literally the only thing he's in the thread for, so I should just let it go. Sorry.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Aug 4, 2015

Samuel
Nov 5, 2011
Today I'll lament the fact I'll never be an Arab with a poppy farm. :(


Samuel fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Aug 4, 2015

JFairfax
Oct 23, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Samuel posted:

the courts did post a guard and the dudes DID manage to bypass him when he was distracted

he wasn't distracted, he ditched work to go see fuckin' Herbie goes Bananas

Sponge Baathist
Jan 30, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
Of all the things to cause a nuclear catastrophe it's the sentient car.

JFairfax
Oct 23, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X2BOP6_qRM

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

Raskolnikov38 posted:

he wasn't distracted, he ditched work to go see fuckin' Herbie goes Bananas

if I remember right, he called in (fake) sick and his boss didn't send anyone to cover for him

ghosTTy
Sep 22, 2008


wtf why did the driver seem to be resisting someone trying to save his life? I don't think he would have died anyways, should have just left him in there.

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case


An Angry Bug posted:

as if you ever saw a cop in your life you immobile mass of bed sores and pit stench

I've got some mental problems myself, and reading his posts sets off alarm bells in my head so hard I barely get a few sentences in before getting uncomfortable enough that I can't keep reading.

JB50
Feb 13, 2008

ThePriceIsRight posted:

wtf why did the driver seem to be resisting someone trying to save his life? I don't think he would have died anyways, should have just left him in there.

Car thief maybe?

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

JB50 posted:

Car thief maybe?

The driver appeared to be intoxicated according to police.

Burt Sexual
Jan 26, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Switchblade Switcharoo

Trabisnikof posted:

The driver appeared to be intoxicated according to police.

+2 cop

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

I've got some mental problems myself, and reading his posts sets off alarm bells in my head so hard I barely get a few sentences in before getting uncomfortable enough that I can't keep reading.

sorry to hear that you were triggered

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Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

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