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I work for a large consulting firm and am currently working on an internal project even though I'm technically a consultant and they prefer if I am client facing. I've been there for a year and a half, and have been promised the 'potential for promotion' at the end of the fiscal year. For promotion, you have to have someone go to bat for you and no one oppose you. One of the managers that knows me from one week on a project is going around telling people I'm a piece of poo poo, waste of money, should never have been hired and have been lying. The project he was on with me, I got excellent reviews, literally turned it around, and the people that came in after him though I did an excellent job. The project I am on now everyone is saying I'm doing a great job, giving me excellent reviews, etc. Since I'm getting hosed by this guy because he hates people and fucks them over for whatever reason, I asked my current supervisor what it would take to move over to his team. He said at end of fiscal year he could probably take me on. He also thought I was one level above what I am. Am I hosed in asking for a promotion when I get the move because I was the one that asked for the move? I feel like I'll lose any chance of getting one if I don't ask for it now, but don't want to be greedy based on the fact I asked for the move. The next level should come with a 15% pay bump and I haven't seen an increase since I started a year and a half ago, but I also don't know if there is a different pay structure within the new team - I don't believe there is. All I know is I feel like I need a promotion to justify staying at this company. I like what I do right now, but there's many other places that I could go to and do similar stuff for similar if not more money.
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Jul 11, 2015 20:29
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SaltLick posted:stating that my technical interview wasn't that great but I have lots of potential and that's why they countered with what they did. Does this ever pan out? During the interview for my current job, when discussing career growth my manager stated that "for pay, the company likes to start people on the lower end of salary scale, but is aggressive with raises if they think you're valuable". Has anybody been fed the "aggressive growth" or "potential" line with regards to starting compensation, and then actually reaped the rewards?
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Jul 11, 2015 23:28
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C-Euro posted:Does this ever pan out? During the interview for my current job, when discussing career growth my manager stated that "for pay, the company likes to start people on the lower end of salary scale, but is aggressive with raises if they think you're valuable". Has anybody been fed the "aggressive growth" or "potential" line with regards to starting compensation, and then actually reaped the rewards? Yea I'm not really expecting any sort of drastic pay raises but with a year of work and another certification or two under my belt I should be able to leverage this position for something that pays more in line with industry standards pretty easily. They definitely have the advantage on this one. Luckily it's still a pay raise with benefits compared to my current job.
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Jul 11, 2015 23:49
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C-Euro posted:Does this ever pan out? During the interview for my current job, when discussing career growth my manager stated that "for pay, the company likes to start people on the lower end of salary scale, but is aggressive with raises if they think you're valuable". Has anybody been fed the "aggressive growth" or "potential" line with regards to starting compensation, and then actually reaped the rewards?
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Jul 12, 2015 18:16
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I had one experience in those places early on in my career where they actually did give me raises aggressively, I averaged like 20-30% raises every year for five years but that's the exception, usually that line is indeed bullshit.
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Jul 12, 2015 18:35
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Dik Hz posted:It's actually the exact opposite. Hiring managers are more likely to view the people on the higher end of the pay scale as better simply because they're paid more. So the people on the high end are more likely to get better raises. Yeah, I remember once talking to a C-level exec at another company who said that no one will take me seriously until I make at least 70k. I do know of a few companies that start people really low and give really frequent promotions and raises, but it's kind of silly because you get people with 4-5 years experience and heavily inflated titles who are making what entry level people make at other companies.
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Jul 12, 2015 18:44
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Dik Hz posted:It's actually the exact opposite. Hiring managers are more likely to view the people on the higher end of the pay scale as better simply because they're paid more. So the people on the high end are more likely to get better raises.
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Jul 12, 2015 21:34
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Thanks, that's kind of what I suspected. The silver lining for me is that my salary on-paper is not only 15k higher than my last job, but the contract for my fiancee's job is up after two years, so I have an easy out down the line if they can't live up to that "aggressive" statement. But the first day of my job my manager told me that company sales were beginning to level off, which is exactly the situation I walked into at my last job and about half of my last company didn't get raises at all for 2014 
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Jul 12, 2015 22:14
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To Vex a Stranger posted:I work for a large consulting firm... Am I hosed in asking for a promotion when I get the move because I was the one that asked for the move? First things first - get the hell off an 'internal project' ASAP, that poo poo isn't nearly as valuable as client-facing work from the 'experience' perspective, these are usually given to guys that are out of steam and need a place to chill and be useful at the same time. Second, as you said, you need someone to bat for you and nobody oppose you. While it's great you are getting all this praise, in my experience, a bad review is a crutch and may kill your chances as they can only promote so many consultants at once and sorting out which ones to leave behind is usually a matter of finding these stupid comments. Sort the bad guy out. You don't need to confront him or anything, in fact, I prefer the good old "get an informal connection via some common interest, do a favor and/or praise in front of someone else" routine. Third, switching teams shouldn't matter if it's within general practice space but without any further context, the bad manager guy is your number one problem in getting a promotion, not team switch. TL;DR - push for switching teams while turning around the dick manager. Hope this helps 
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Jul 13, 2015 21:00
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Well that was easy enough. My initial want was 60,000 with an initial offer of theirs being 53,000. I split the difference between the two and looks like we settled with 56,500.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:32
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The Capitulator posted:First things first - get the hell off an 'internal project' ASAP, that poo poo isn't nearly as valuable as client-facing work from the 'experience' perspective, these are usually given to guys that are out of steam and need a place to chill and be useful at the same time. Well I'm sick of traveling, 3 and a half years of terrible clients and flying out every week is enough for me, for now. I'm fine internal, that's kind of what I want to do. And Technically it's the most visible project throughout our entire company, as we are upgrading Lync to Skype for business and performing all the poo poo that goes with it. I will be switching teams which will be in the similar vein of work, but not with the awful bullshit that goes with the team that I'm assigned to. Never worked with a bigger bunch of people that didn't know what they were doing yet thought they were gods gift to the company. To Vex a Stranger fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jul 14, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 05:51
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That internal project checks all the good boxes of being political, highly visible, and fundamentally valueless.
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Jul 14, 2015 12:21
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To Vex a Stranger posted:Well I'm sick of traveling, 3 and a half years of terrible clients and flying out every week is enough for me, for now. I'm fine internal, that's kind of what I want to do. I don't know where you work, but in general this is a good way not to get promoted in consulting.
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Jul 14, 2015 14:29
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Probably poorly phrased my original post, I've not been on this project the entire time I've been at the company. I was there for about 8 months traveling to another client site, then was on the bench for a few weeks along with a large number of other consultants on my team, then finally got on this project.KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:That internal project checks all the good boxes of being political, highly visible, and fundamentally valueless. Why do you say "valueless"? Always confused me when people claim that doing internal work doesn't give you experience. You are doing the technical poo poo, dealing with the same (if not more) bullshit that clients put you through, and you are still managing your teams. Maybe valueless for the company, but certainly not from a "I'm learning this technology or growing my team" point of view. Non-sarcastic here, WHAT about it makes it valueless? As to Xandu's point, I was promised a promotion at 6 months at the company. They didn't follow through with that, my manager has not helped at any of the other set promotion points, 20% of our team is consistently on the bench, and generally our management is dragging its feet on everything. I figured it's either time to move to another team or to pursue the other options I have outside of the company, though I was planning on hitting the 2 year mark so my 401k match vested.
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Jul 14, 2015 16:18
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Wow, people aren't kidding when they say you should try and make the interviewer put out a number first. I had an interview yesterday where I was told that, if I was given the job, I would be making like 5-10K more than what I would have asked for.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:30
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To Vex a Stranger posted:Probably poorly phrased my original post, I've not been on this project the entire time I've been at the company. I was there for about 8 months traveling to another client site, then was on the bench for a few weeks along with a large number of other consultants on my team, then finally got on this project. No one inside your company actually gives a gently caress whether you use Skype for business or Lync. It's an eminently forgettable project.
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Jul 16, 2015 21:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:No one inside your company actually gives a gently caress whether you use Skype for business or Lync. It's an eminently forgettable project.
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Jul 17, 2015 04:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:No one inside your company actually gives a gently caress whether you use Skype for business or Lync. It's an eminently forgettable project. Wasn't my question, but I understand what you are trying to say. Thanks for the insight.
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Jul 17, 2015 05:37
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Lync and Skype are both poo poo.
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Jul 17, 2015 12:55
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To Vex a Stranger posted:Wasn't my question, but I understand what you are trying to say. Thanks for the insight. You asked why it is valueless, and I answered. The only way anyone will remember the Great Conferencing Software Changeover Project in two years is if it's a loving debacle. The ultimate outcomeof the project is that nobody notices. You may learn things, but they aren't anything that you could not have learned on client facing projects where you actually made the firm money and added value.
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Jul 17, 2015 14:24
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An internal recruiter reached out to me on LinkedIn in regarding a software developer position. I've had 2 in person interviews and I received a call from the recruiter last night that they want to make an offer. He's asked me to complete a job application before the offer since I haven't submitted one yet. The application is asking for salary information at all of my previous jobs and for permission to contact these companies to verify my information. Would it look sketchy to leave the salary fields at 0? Should I ask for an offer first, even if I don't complete the form I'm giving them permission to contact my employer to find out.
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Jul 21, 2015 16:29
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Super Delegate posted:An internal recruiter reached out to me on LinkedIn in regarding a software developer position. I've had 2 in person interviews and I received a call from the recruiter last night that they want to make an offer. Don't give them information about prior employers. Don't give them salary numbers from prior employments. If they push on it demand that they offer you a salary number, and negotiate it to an acceptable number, prior to disclosing any of the above information. If they will get to an acceptable salary number, then you can give them numbers and allow them to contact to verify. If they refuse to offer you a salary or to negotiate to an acceptable number, seriously question taking the position.
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Jul 21, 2015 20:50
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Put a strike through it, not a 0. Assert your dominance.
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Jul 22, 2015 14:25
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To Vex a Stranger posted:as we are upgrading Lync to Skype for business and performing all the poo poo that goes with it. I don't want to come off mean or unhelpful but here's my brutally honest take. We have this Lync to Skype thing happening as well, and not even our IT guys want to bother with it - it's currently outsourced to the lowest-of-the-low contractors. As someone else said, the ONLY time anyone will remember said contractor and his manager(s) is if this thing goes horribly wrong. Finally, internal work is not valueless, however, it's nearly always less valuable for a career of a consultant than client work. If you are happy with where you're at, great. Just remember that it may be a self-imposed glass ceiling.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:51
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I work for a consulting firm as well. The internal projects just stall your career within the firm - I've seen a ton of senior managers switch to the internal team when they get tired of traveling, and later leave once they finally realize that they'll never get promoted. The best argument for promotion that you can make for yourself when working internally is that you reduced costs - through better processes or improved productivity. Our baseline was an improvement of 10%/year just to be considered standing still. Even if you kill your numbers, you're still looked at as doing less well than someone who brought in an equivalent amount of revenue by booking work (regardless of their new project's margins). Just because it's a dead end within the firm doesn't mean it's useless though. You can probably get much more responsibility there than you would get at a client - which should look great on your resume should you do decide to move on.
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Jul 27, 2015 22:39
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Yeah I had a friend who got moved off the $1M/month client after loving a project up and onto some internal project where he was upgrading sharepoint or some other awful poo poo work and didn't realize it was a negative for his career. "But everyone in the company uses the sharepoint this is high visibility and important!" Uhhhh nope.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:28
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At my firm internal projects go to people who a) we know are leaving soon and need something to ride it out and provide some value or b) we want to get the gently caress out.
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Jul 29, 2015 20:02
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I'm only halfway through this thread but I just wanted to post that yes, people will pay you more if you ask. Found this thread at a good time in my current job and used some of the links and advice to get 11.11% raise in salary and doubled my monthly bonus. There's a lot of good advice in this thread. While much of it is tutoring for specific situations the general pointers were very helpful: mostly, confidence. Preparation definitely helps confidence and if you prepare your arguments you will deliver them confidently. Not too sure if I can give any advice since its only early days for me, but please keep posting advice, keep this thread moving, it's definitely a very useful resource that works.
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Jul 30, 2015 09:19
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I recently received a job offer from a company I'm interested in working. The issue I'm having is with the job title. I am interested in moving up from software engineer to senior software title. The only reason why it matters is because in a couple of years I want to apply for a MBA, and it seems important to show growth. On the other hand, I only really have two years out of school experience (plus 2 years during), so I feel like if someone saw it on a resume, it would seem absurd. The pay is comparable to other companies where I'm applying for a senior title. I'm wondering if I should ask for it in negotiation. I'm 95% positive I would take this job either way. The only negotiating power I have is another company I'm in late stages of the interview process with, but no concrete offer. So I guess my question is, should I ask for the senior title? How do I show career growth on my resume if all the titles are called Software Engineer, even though the pay is drastically different.
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Aug 1, 2015 02:21
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2 (or even 4) years professional experience isn't senior level, no matter how good you are.
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Aug 1, 2015 04:29
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Yeah, don't. I generally see senior software engineers around the 6-8 year mark, the way to show growth is to add skills and work on important projects.
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Aug 1, 2015 17:12
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ProSlayer posted:I recently received a job offer from a company I'm interested in working. The issue I'm having is with the job title. I am interested in moving up from software engineer to senior software title. The only reason why it matters is because in a couple of years I want to apply for a MBA, and it seems important to show growth. On the other hand, I only really have two years out of school experience (plus 2 years during), so I feel like if someone saw it on a resume, it would seem absurd. The pay is comparable to other companies where I'm applying for a senior title. I'm wondering if I should ask for it in negotiation. I'm 95% positive I would take this job either way. The only negotiating power I have is another company I'm in late stages of the interview process with, but no concrete offer. So I guess my question is, should I ask for the senior title? How do I show career growth on my resume if all the titles are called Software Engineer, even though the pay is drastically different.
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Aug 2, 2015 02:39
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Guinness posted:2 (or even 4) years professional experience isn't senior level, no matter how good you are. I've seen someone get Senior 4 years out of college, but that guy was *flying* through his promotions to get there.
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Aug 2, 2015 19:34
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Where is a good place to pull salary data for a position?
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Aug 3, 2015 04:05
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Glassdoor is a good resource for salaries, but take it with a grain of salt.
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Aug 3, 2015 04:57
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Payscale and Glassdoor combined will provide enough data points to get a decent idea, though asking around if you're comfortable doing so is ideal so you can make sure the offer isn't too low.
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Aug 3, 2015 05:17
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Negotiating failure story: Company I wanted to work for asked my current salary, I chose not disclose. Asked for ballpark, give them $x to $x + $5k. Got the job and offered $x.  Planning on taking the job since it is way over what I make now and similar companies I'm interviewing with are paying much less or are known to have more stress. Lesson learned, small slip ups on the phone can cost you lots of money. Now I'm feeling bitter sweet about the whole thing when I should be happy.
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Aug 4, 2015 22:26
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You could try the old, "Thank you for the offer, however I would really feel more comfortable with the offer at $X+5k. Is there any room to negotiate on the starting salary?" They clearly just picked a number out of thin air (which you conveniently supplied). I'd be willing to bet they could go higher.
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Aug 4, 2015 22:32
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ProSlayer posted:Negotiating failure story: This kinda happened to me. Ask for the split difference between their offer and your top number
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Aug 4, 2015 23:42
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Sometimes giving a range works out for you. Last time I switched jobs, when asked I told them my real range+10 percent, and then they gave me the top of that range for some reason. I'm not sure if I'm good at negotiating or this company is just bad at it.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:32
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