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Shifty Pony posted:They don't want to piss off their Chinese dealers. The taxes are also used by the automakers to hide higher margins and like hell they aren't going to crack down on someone exploiting that. That's where my money is. Car sales is a territorial racket.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:25
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Nintendo Kid posted:Because they don't want to have investigators coming around thinking they might be seeking out money laundering type business.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:06
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Inferior Third Season posted:I get checking the financial assets of buyers to ensure it isn't clearly illegally obtained, so cops don't come knocking every two days. But I don't see how that has anything to do with evading domestic Chinese taxes, which the dealer, and the U.S. as a whole, should give zero shits about. If the difference in price between the two countries is less than what it costs to ship the vehicle, there would be no reason for anyone to buy in China. It is the same reason DVDs have region coding, except you cannot make a car that doesn't work in Asia. For instance, most Canadians can drive an hour south and save a couple thousand bucks on a new vehicle. Since that would destroy the Canadian dealers, US dealers will generally refuse to sell.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:26
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Inferior Third Season posted:I get checking the financial assets of buyers to ensure it isn't clearly illegally obtained, so cops don't come knocking every two days. But I don't see how that has anything to do with evading domestic Chinese taxes, which the dealer, and the U.S. as a whole, should give zero shits about. The US and the US dealers don't give a poo poo. Hell the US dealers would likely gladly deliver entire car carrier loads to the loading dock to be shipped over if they could. The Automakers on the other hand want none of it. Their Chinese dealers are pissed at not making money off the sales because of people bypassing them to buy in the US. They need dealers in China to showcase the cars, advertise, and drive up demand in a very competitive market where local Chinese businesses enjoy rather stark advantages over a purely foreign company. Additionally automakers have artificially raised prices in China because they know the buyers aren't very price senstive in their quest to get their nouveau riche conspicuous consumption on. They are not exactly forthcoming as to how much (or even if) they mark things up but estimates are the margin per vehicles is between 2-3x what it is in the US. Every vehicle shipped over is half as much money for them as one sold in China. Also, and I'm not sure how true this one is, the manufacturers claim cars for China have engines specced for Chinese gasoline and cars designed expecting US gasoline might not exactly run right. I'm not sure how much of that is BS or not because the standards used int he US and China look similar. Is gasoline quality really inconsistent or commonly adulterated or something? So the automakers are threatening to poo poo-list any US dealer caught doing it, so US dealers don't want it to happen.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:49
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I believe gasoline quality in China has about 10 times more sulfurous particles than US standards and 20 times more than European. Chinese gasoline is hugely more polluting than American or European gasoline and this is a common complaint against Sinopec, I think their moutai budget last year was bigger than the cost it would take to refine gasoline to American standards yet they won't do it.
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Jul 29, 2015 17:57
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Fall Sick and Die posted:I believe gasoline quality in China has about 10 times more sulfurous particles than US standards and 20 times more than European. Chinese gasoline is hugely more polluting than American or European gasoline and this is a common complaint against Sinopec, I think their moutai budget last year was bigger than the cost it would take to refine gasoline to American standards yet they won't do it. The moutai IS the refined gasoline, shipped in tiny red bottles to circumvent pesky inspectors. 
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Jul 30, 2015 02:08
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So what the Hell is this about? I've only skimmed things, but those flat spots stand out as weird. Something about a monthly-cap? Why did it change again afterward?
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Jul 31, 2015 15:57
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Wow can you imagine China crashing and Iranian oil coming back onto the US market at the same time? Dollar gas baby! And every single fracker I know here in CO loses their jobs!
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Jul 31, 2015 16:37
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Radbot posted:Wow can you imagine China crashing and Iranian oil coming back onto the US market at the same time? Dollar gas baby! And every single fracker I know here in CO loses their jobs! Oh gas won't go that cheap - just because there's slackened demand doesn't automagically make oil and gas companies cut prices dramatically. The only upstream people that will get cut are going to be the land management people, but that won't count as layoffs since they're expenses rather than payroll seeing as how almost all of them are independent contractors. And most of the lost jobs will be mid or downstream as there's not enough demand to run the refineries at full tilt.
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Jul 31, 2015 17:47
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 https://twitter.com/george_chen/status/627724064744865792
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Aug 2, 2015 07:31
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THE FREE INVISIBLE HAND WITH CHINESE CHARACTERISTICS MARKET DEMANDS A SACRIFICE Necc0 fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Aug 2, 2015 |
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Aug 2, 2015 07:34
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Even better than just picking a random local scapegoat, they can blame it on the US too
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Aug 2, 2015 07:54
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*two years from now* "I don't understand why nobody wants to invest in China anymore."
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Aug 2, 2015 08:00
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western chauvinism / imperialism / japanese devils
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Aug 2, 2015 08:09
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Fojar38 posted:*two years from now*
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Aug 2, 2015 10:25
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meristem posted:Does China still need a lot of foreign investment? Let's find out by bring as much manufacturing as possible back to Americas. Chinese manufacturing for Eurasian markets.
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Aug 2, 2015 16:17
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meristem posted:Does China still need a lot of foreign investment? I think so. Every developing nation needs outside investment until their standard of living pulls equal to developed nations.
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Aug 3, 2015 15:55
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Crashrat posted:Oh gas won't go that cheap - just because there's slackened demand doesn't automagically make oil and gas companies cut prices dramatically. How is the demand side of the market determining price "automagic"?
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Aug 3, 2015 17:47
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quote:BREAKING: China’s No1 brokerage CITIC Securities announces to suspend short-selling service for clients, effective immediately 中信证券即日起暂停融券交易 quote:
quote:
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Aug 4, 2015 03:32
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So China will stop the great crash of its stock market by making it not a stock market anymore? Brilliant!
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Aug 4, 2015 18:27
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If a stock falls in the market and no one is around to observe it, does it really fall?
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Aug 4, 2015 21:44
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Fake stock markets, fake luxury bags, fake baiju, fake rice, fake hymens. Is there anything else left that can be hosed up?
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Aug 4, 2015 22:57
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This isn't actually going to stop short selling by anyone but the plebs, right?
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Aug 4, 2015 22:59
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TheBuilder posted:Fake stock markets, fake luxury bags, fake baiju, fake rice, fake hymens. Is there anything else left that can be hosed up? People start to believe their fake poo poo is legitimate and let it infect the outside world.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:07
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TheBuilder posted:fake hymens. 
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Aug 4, 2015 23:17
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Poil posted:Please please tell me it's not what I think it is. Pretty sure this is a thing in the west, too.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:23
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TheBuilder posted:Fake stock markets, fake luxury bags, fake baiju, fake rice, fake hymens. Is there anything else left that can be hosed up? You forgot fake test scores, fake 3rd story of houses to attract a partner, and fake (but deadly) baby formula. Maybe the whole mainland is just a facade and will disappear when people stop believing in it.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:53
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Mercury_Storm posted:You forgot fake test scores, fake 3rd story of houses to attract a partner, and fake (but deadly) baby formula. Maybe the whole mainland is just a facade and will disappear when people stop believing in it. You joke but this is literally all its going to take. The response to the stock market crash was needed to prevent a crisis of confidence and so far they've succeeded. China would be a smoking pile of rubble if the shcomp were allowed to go to zero.
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Aug 5, 2015 02:02
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TheBuilder posted:Fake stock markets, fake luxury bags, fake baiju, fake rice, fake hymens. Is there anything else left that can be hosed up?
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Aug 5, 2015 02:25
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Radbot posted:How is the demand side of the market determining price "automagic"? First - because wholesale pricing of refined oil products moves independently of crude pricing. Second - just because there's not as much demand for the product doesn't mean that the cost of producing the product (in this case the operating expense of the refinery) decreases. It also has no effect on distribution costs (marginally on the cost of tankers) and it certainly has no effect on taxes. Third - it doesn't mean the oil companies want to lower the price. They can just pocket the difference to keep their infrastructure in place. There's no rule that they have to be cheaper.
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Aug 5, 2015 14:52
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Fewer people will want to buy gas for that price though. That's literally what a fall in demand means. If they were to continue production where it was before the fall in demand and not change price they will be left with some inventory that doesn't clear. They can either idle some capacity or let inventory build up. Those are their only choices without a price change. But hey you know an easy way to clear excess inventory?
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Aug 5, 2015 15:01
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Arglebargle III posted:Fewer people will want to buy gas for that price though. That's literally what a fall in demand means. If they were to continue production where it was before the fall in demand and not change price they will be left with some inventory that doesn't clear. They can either idle some capacity or let inventory build up. Those are their only choices without a price change. But hey you know an easy way to clear excess inventory? They idle capacity and continue at the same price point while clearing inventory? There's no requirement for refineries to run at full capacity while buying as much crude as possible and generate as much refined product as possible. Similarly with summer drawing to a close they can just choose to not produce as much winter distillates when they switch over to keep prices higher.
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Aug 5, 2015 15:18
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Poil posted:Please please tell me it's not what I think it is. I have no idea how common it is, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymenorrhaphy
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Aug 5, 2015 16:24
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Crashrat posted:They idle capacity and continue at the same price point while clearing inventory? Reading comprehension, man.
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Aug 5, 2015 16:29
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Arglebargle III posted:Reading comprehension, man. Logical fallacies much? First - to quoque Second - begging the question. You're begging the question with your reply that inventory will build up, which is what I replied to. You stated idling refineries was an option, and then proceeded to draw a conclusion that entirely ignored that option such that your conclusion was part of the premise. Third - black or white. You're claiming only idling capacity or letting inventory build are possible without a price change. That's not true. There's nothing requiring the oil & gas industry to reduce the price of distillates just because the crude comes in cheaper. There's also the real possibility that just because demand slacks in China that it picks up elsewhere resulting in no real net change. For example anything that interrupted manufacturing in China would necessitate shifting to other producers like Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, and so forth. That could lead to their currency gaining in value against the dollar, which in turn reduces their trade price for oil distillates, and thus making it cheaper for importing - all resulting in negating the effect of China's drop in demand The main point I am drawing here is what would happen with a drastic reduction in China's oil product demand doesn't necessarily magically generate cheap gasoline at the pump in America - there's a lot more at play than simple correlations like that, and that's before touching all of the multicollinearity issues as well. I'm not pig headed enough to say there will be no effect, I'm sure there will be, but I just think the forum has a higher level of discussion to offer than accepting arguments for simple correlations where the reality is not that simple. I'm not trying to be obstinate, but rather point out that poo poo is more complicated than an intro to econ simple supply-demand graph.
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Aug 5, 2015 17:54
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Crashrat posted:First - because wholesale pricing of refined oil products moves independently of crude pricing. The second and third "reasons" apply to literally any good, and yet most goods roughly obey the law of supply and demand.
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Aug 5, 2015 18:00
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What the gently caress are you guys even arguing about? It's not like this poo poo is trivial to check or anything   Clearly oil is special and regular rules don't apply here!
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Aug 5, 2015 18:03
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Supply and demand is not part of China's 5000 years culture, sorry haters
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Aug 5, 2015 18:03
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mobby_6kl posted:What the gently caress are you guys even arguing about? It's not like this poo poo is trivial to check or anything its an inelastic good; demand in america has been down while supply has been up yet prices have still trended upwards since its a global commodity icantfindaname posted:Supply and demand is not part of China's 5000 years culture, sorry haters I'm pretty sure China demands you respect its 5,000 years of demands.
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Aug 5, 2015 18:04
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My Imaginary GF posted:its an inelastic good; demand in america has been down while supply has been up yet prices have still trended upwards since its a global commodity "It's an inelastic good" and "demand in America has been down", two great phrases that make zero sense together Oil is pretty clearly elastic to an extent, just look at gasoline consumption during the recession.
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Aug 5, 2015 18:06
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